So phase 1 will include 225 condo units, ? amount of retail (probably around 100,000 Sq. ft), and office (this should be interesting since the downtown office vacancy rate is running around 19%). To be ready for lease by the end of 2009 or beginning of 2010.

 

Its a start. I am a little concerned with the timeline and that phase one is only for 2 blocks. While you hope demand will build over time and increase the timeline for each phase, it appears that this could be a 10 year buildout or more.

 

Did they discuss how many phases they see the whole project being?

Did they say if phase one will include one of the hotels?

 

i was also a little concerned about the price points of the condos.  I am glad they are not way overpriced but I would have liked to see a range more around 150k to 400k.  And I guarantee the 150-200k would have sold best if they are/were to be included in the plan.

8-10 year build out. Don't recall info on the number of phases. Sounded to me like hotels are speculative at this point, no specific mention in phase 1.

It would be nice to see high end apartments as part of the plan. I think downtown Cincy has a need for that type of product.

Here is the new site plan for The Banks:

 

And here are some renderings from wlwt.com:

 

 

On a side note...I like the new site plan better than the old.  That's not saying I like the architecture better, but I like the layout/plan better.

 

Living at The Banks by 2009?

BY JESSICA BROWN | [email protected]

April 23, 2007

 

DOWNTOWN - The Banks riverfront development is envisioned as a 24-hour, seven day a week destination spot, unlike anything else in the region, planners said this afternoon as they unveiled long-range plans for the project.

 

The focus will be on shopping and entertainment, with offices, apartments and condominiums to support those businesses.

 

Rough sketches of the project were revealed today to a crowd of more than 100.

 

Full story text is available at

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070423/NEWS01/304230051/1056/COL02

build it.  just build it. adding the block north of PBS is a nice addition, deck FWW and we may have something.

so what exactly are the different colors representing here in the site plan? 

love it...just love it.  i love the optimism of the enquirer as well...let throw a huge question mark in the headline. 

 

this quote makes my blood boil...

 

"It is also unclear exactly what will differentiate the project from other shopping/entertainment destinations like Newport on the Levee or Kenwood Mall, only that it will, indeed be different."

 

how about the fact that its in the middle of downtown you fricken moron. 

I would have been excited if they never teased us with the original renderings.  I guess I am becoming a true Cincinnatian because I am now cynical about this whole project.

 

The old renderings looked much better and much more original.

 

 

love it...just love it.  i love the optimism of the enquirer as well...let throw a huge question mark in the headline. 

 

this quote makes my blood boil...

 

"It is also unclear exactly what will differentiate the project from other shopping/entertainment destinations like Newport on the Levee or Kenwood Mall, only that it will, indeed be different."

 

how about the fact that its in the middle of downtown you fricken moron. 

 

also neither kenwood mall nor newport on the levee have 1800 units of housing and a hotel and parkland and a nationally renown museum and two pro stadia

 

the enquirer... wow.

I love the Enquirer....

I liked the openness of the old rendering... and like I've said before... the old styled architecture... this one seems too... cold and glassy and typical. The courtyards that are surrounded by buildings would make me feel enclosed and trapped... But... as long as its not a hole anymore... I'm happy.

It looks like Carter added two glass-enclosed features in front of the Freedom Center.  They bracket each side of the lawn at the base of the Roebling Suspension Bridge.  Does anyone have any information about these features?

 

http://cmsimg.enquirer.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Dato=20070423&Kategori=NEWS01&Lopenr=304230051&Ref=AR&Q=80&MaxW=450&MaxH=475&Site=AB&Q=80&Border=0&Title=0

^ News channel 5 (?) said they were restaurant(s).

It looks like there is outdoor seating in front of them.  Another cool feature is how the eastern section of the project faces right onto the park.  That area is quite pedestrian-friendly and should be very popular before and after Reds games.

 

It seems as if the developers have the right idea. Zero set-back lots, pedestrian-friendly environment, a mix of restaurants, retail and residential units, and park land. I also believe that by building piece-by-piece will also yield "instant" profits - no need to wait out for the entire project to see some return.

I like the plans but one question I have is the plans look like there will be 8 blocks developed and the rest will be parks.  It looks like nothing will be built south of the current Roebling way (is that the right street, the street where the suspension bridge ends on the Cincinnati side).  That means that the parking lots, Lot D, (the lot immediately east of Paul Brown Stadium) will be park.  If that is the case how many blocks of garages need to be built??  7-8 in my estimation??  Does it seem right that one block of garage would cost 10mil as the county suggests??  Also I think that there is entirely way to much park, especially if FWW gets capped into park.  But that is minor considering the amount of development going on.

I guess it will grow on me,but.........

 

  There's just nothing special about it. It looks like a hundred other projects being designed and build nowadays. There's no originality. We looked forward to something that would set us apart from other cities and we end up getting buildings that are similar to the proposed One River Plaza and dozens of other new buildings in other cities. I love One River Plaza, but we don't need two of them.

   

    It's not crap either, so lets just get it built.

 

    The Central Riverfront Park will be what sets this whole project apart from all others ones. 

 

  Phattynati, if your taste in woman is the same as your taste in architecture, then you must like them fat and ugly with corns on their feet. :laugh: 

 

Just kidding, it ain't that bad.

 

I would have been excited if they never teased us with the original renderings.  I guess I am becoming a true Cincinnatian because I am now cynical about this whole project.

 

The old renderings looked much better and much more original.

 

Let it go.  There is not a single plan/proposal in the world that stays true to its original vision till the end.  Especially in a project of this size and time line.  Things change, you should be happy that the scope of the project hasn't changed.  I would much rather have an architectural style change than a complete project overhaul (see Ballpark Village in St. Louis).  They have pretty much removed all residential elements from the project and reduced its size significantly.

Just posting both site plans for comparison.

 

Old

 

New

It looks as though they have enlarged the size of the southern blocks of development and thus decreased the upper-most part of the park.  I think that works for me...like I said, I think the new plan is much improved over the old.

It looks as though they have enlarged the size of the southern blocks of development and thus decreased the upper-most part of the park.  I think that works for me...like I said, I think the new plan is much improved over the old.

 

Yes, and the new site plan shows a direct connection between The Banks and the park.  The street between the two has largely been eliminated, allowing for unobstructed pedestrian access.

Wait a second..they're not covering ft. washington way! Booo!

^Earlier Cramer said:

"Right, someone asked about that, and the rep from Carter said the same thing. The decks have come up recently in their talks and they're looking into it. Portune has requested money from Hamilton Co parks to pay for the decks. I think they said $20 mil per block."

I say that if they don't cover FWW, then forget the whole thing...

I like the new design better, though it would mesh better with the CBD if at least they capped FWW at the streets bordering the east and west sides of the Freedom center and built more buildings.

^ ^ Such drastic opinion.

 

Covering FWW would be a very expensive measure to add what is considered a minimal amount of park land. While desired, ODOT compromised on the cost by constructing provisions for a cap -- while going the extra mile to add in decorative elements, planters, lighting, etc. that were far superior than previous. They could have gone the el cheapo route, as other states have demonstrated, but compromised at the pleading of city officials and downtown residents.

 

A cap can always be installed later, but it is extremely expensive to construct a steel with concrete overlay cap that must include major drainage systems. Provisions for a cap does not mean that the majority of the work is done -- it just makes it possible down the road.

No, ODOT didn't pay for the pilings or the aesthetic aspects of FWW.  I believe virtually all of the aesthetic package was paid for by the City of Cincinnati (something like $15 million...this included some money from the ill-conceived and ill-executed "Cincinnati Gateways" project which paid for the fake cable-stayed bridges, as well as money for the texture lining the sloped concrete walls of the trench, lighting, concrete benches nobody uses, and the double-row of street trees) and much of the provisions for the cap were paid for by local companies including a personal donation by Carl Lindner.    The Transit Center was paid for by a mysterious funding source which distributes funds for "intermodal" capital improvements.  I was told by someone the only reason it qualified for that grant was because it was located on the flood plain and so accessible by boat for maybe 30 days each century.  That is why the exact same facility could not have been built under 3rd St., where it might have been useful. 

 

So the transit center, the streetscape improvements, the cap pilings, and also the 2nd. St. ramp from the Clay Wade Bailey Bridge approach and the Broadway squiggle to connect with the Taylor-Southgate Bridge were all added on to the project after it got underway and each were paid for through different combinations of funding sources. 

 

 

 

I say that if they don't cover FWW, then forget the whole thing...

 

I was being sarcastic people ... lol ... I didn't think I needed a "wink" for that comment.

I picked up on it Cincy-Rise... If it costs that much, I don't think its worth it.

I'm very disappointed.

Frankly I don't think the modernistic architecture is all that terrible.  Perhaps we might ask them to make sure the first three floors or so of each building have some warmth and humanity to them.  A fair compromise.

 

It would be nice to see high end apartments as part of the plan. I think downtown Cincy has a need for that type of product.

 

I hope to God this was a tongue-in-cheek comment.  If not, Just click on sibcycline.com or coldwellbanker.com and you will soon be able to peruse high end apartments to your heart's content.

 

I honestly think that they should require anyone living down there to have at least one child in residence.  Then we might actually have people using those acres of planned parks or perhaps even attending baseball games.

 

From the Business Courier article: The Banks riverfront development project is a $600 million mouthful, but the new development team in charge of the project has decided to start with a smaller, $50 million bite.

 

AIG/Carter Real Estate will pursue housing and entertainment tenants on either side of Freedom Way, connecting the Great American Ball Park with the National Underground Railroad Freedom Center. A pair of two-story garages will be constructed on two blocks west of the ballpark, along with elevated streets connecting the blocks to the rest of the central riverfront street grid.

 

Then, developers will construct housing and retail buildings on either side of Freedom Way, building out the rest of the blocks as tenants and financing become available...

The bulk of the initial $50 million investment will be for garages and street grids, financed by $28 million in federal and city grants, a $10 million developer contribution and a loan from the Ohio's infrastructure bank to cover the remainder.

 

The state loan would be an interim financing tool, paid off when property tax and parking revenues can be pledged toward a bond issue that will serve as the project's permanent financing mechanism, Stuckey said.

 

So is Carter/AIG throwing any of their own money in on this?  Does anyone have any idea how big developments like this are financed and why the city/county couldn't have simply done this on their own, piece by piece, as these boys from Atlanta seem to be doing?  What are these supposedly private investors bringing to the table?

Carter's putting $10 mill in for the garages and streets. Not sure if that is just phase one or not. I'm not good with phases.

Make it real by '09

New Banks vision: Developers' proposal expands project

BY JESSICA BROWN AND JON NEWBERRY | [email protected] AND [email protected]

E-mail    |    Print    |    digg us!    |    del.icio.us!

 

People could be living, working and shopping at Cincinnati's long-stalled Banks project by the end of 2009 if a preliminary development plan unveiled to the public Monday comes to fruition.

 

Officials from the Atlanta-based development team AIG/Carter presented a 10-year plan that includes a $125 million to $140 million first phase consisting of 225 condos and apartments, a block-long extension of Freedom Way lined with shops and restaurants, and an office building of up to 300,000 square feet and as many as 15 stories.

 

Full story text is available at

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20070424/NEWS01/704240398/Make-it-real-by-%5C-09

"We're rounding third and heading for home," he said.

 

 

Thief!

haha, true...everyone on here knows that espnzone was my idea too!!  ha

LincolnKennedy said,

I hope to God this was a tongue-in-cheek comment.  If not, Just click on sibcycline.com or coldwellbanker.com and you will soon be able to peruse high end apartments to your heart's content.

 

No it was not a joke, the downtown market can only consume so many condo units per year as well as office space. To make this project move forward as quickly as possible they will need to use about every potential option to fill the space. Apartments, Condos, Retail, Office, Hotel, etc... This is a good move on their part. It will be interesting to see how this project effects other downtown projects. Will it create more demand for office and residential space or just shift it around. In other words, will downtown's 19% office vacancy rate go down with the addition of 300,000 sq. ft. of new space or does it send the vacancy rate even higher. The same will go with residential, will it help increase residential consumption or will consumption stay about the same for downtown per year?

 

As far as the architecture goes, I think it looks pretty good. Its urban, fits into the street grid, and is mixed use.

 

Downtown needs this project to move forward as soons as possible. If it does well it should ultimately be a huge boom for downtown in the years to come, and in my book that is what Cincy needs to move forward, a stronger urban downtown.

Carter's putting $10 mill in for the garages and streets. Not sure if that is just phase one or not. I'm not good with phases.

 

Either way, it still sounds evil.  Who gets the revenues from the parking garages in this plan?

Per their lease the Bengals get ALL the parking revenue from public garages 356 days a year on the west of Vine St. until 2026, explaining why the east half it being built first.  So since there's a salary cap, Hamilton County taxpayers built the stadium, and most of the team's other operations costs are covered by Hamilton County taxpayers, and improvements must be paid by Hamilton County taxpayers, most of this parking revenue is going straight into the Brown family's family trust.  But the team goes 8-8 and suddenly Mike Brown doesn't need to Step Down anymore. 

 

And also since the Bengals are now on 700 WLW I don't think they can rag on them like they used to and of course the Enquirer is limp. 

Damn, The bengals (like many pro sports teams in their respective cities) raped Cincinnati. Its a shame how much of a hold pro sports teams have on cities. When is it going to end?

^Sweet fancy Moses!  What sort of free-market Republican came up with that little bit of social welfare?  Perhaps one who works as director of development for Paul Brown stadium:

http://www.bengals.com/team/FrontOffice.asp

 

I suppose I shouldn't cast stones though.  I did vote for that sales tax increase.  But 2026?  The county got jobbed.

From all of the talk/mention of ESPN Zone that I have heard in the Cincinnati region...I would say its practically a signed deal with them at The Banks.  I wouldn't be surprised if they are in the 1st phase right on Main St or somewhere within spitting distance of GABP.  I think it will be very cool!

 

BTW ragerunner...he wasn't commenting about the existence of apartments, but rather he was refuting that downtown needs more 'high end' apartments.  Most of the apartments downtown are high end...and imo that is a problem...some more apartments in the $500-$600 per month range would be great!

Damn, The bengals (like many pro sports teams in their respective cities) raped Cincinnati. Its a shame how much of a hold pro sports teams have on cities. When is it going to end?

 

there has to be an antitrust violation in there somewhere

NAACP angry over Banks

BY JESSICA BROWN | [email protected]

E-mail    |    Print    |    digg us!    |    del.icio.us!

 

The local branch of the NAACP may ask the two new members of the Banks Working Group to vote “no” on a development deal because of a lack of minority inclusion on the project. NAACP President Chris Smitherman said in a release this morning that the Working Group had not established partnerships with any African American developers or investors.

 

“Shame on the Banks Working Group. The message was clear,” said Smitherman. “‘Lets’ build it. Let’s exclude you. (African Americans) from ownership and equity.’”

 

www.enquirer.com

That's what Todd Portune's whole lawsuit was about...if the circumstances had been slightly different, none of this would have happened.  Specifically, the Browns leaving for Baltimore sent a clear signal to Cincinnatians that it could happen here.  And to expand, if the circumstances of the Bengals and Reds situation had been different, perhaps the light rail tax vote would have passed.   

 

>I suppose I shouldn't cast stones though.  I did vote for that sales tax increase.  But 2026?  The county got jobbed.

 

Yeah, I voted for it too.  But that's before I had personally been burned enough by people you should be able to trust and I had rudimentary legal language skills.  Looking back, pretty much everything Tim Mara predicted has come true.   

 

>When is it going to end?

 

NOW COMES I haven't gone to a Bengals or Reds game in either of the new stadiums,

WHEREAS I'm voting with my feet at least, 

WHEREAS I also quit following pro sports when the leagues got too big and each team will average only one championship every 32~ years,

THEREFORE many going a full century with no championships. 

 

I really quit following pro sports when I saw PacMan Jones's Lamborghini parked outside the stadium in Nashville.  You've got tens of thousands of people paying $80+ a seat so that 23 year-old knuckleheads can drive around $300K cars.  What a joke. 

 

 

Special interest groups are so counter-productive, its ridiculous.

 

As far as the design, what is directly underneath/below the 2 restaurants?  Is that a watwerfall or fountain.  it looks like something interesting but I cannot make out what it is.

I really quit following pro sports when I saw PacMan Jones's Lamborghini parked outside the stadium in Nashville.  You've got tens of thousands of people paying $80+ a seat so that 23 year-old knuckleheads can drive around $300K cars.  What a joke. 

 

Its called economics. In large markets people can make tons more money for only being slightly better than everyone else at something. Football seats wouldn't have to cost as much if there were more damn games in a season.

 

I highly doubt you stopped watching sports based on that principle. You're probably more like the vegetarian that never really liked the taste of meat anyway.

The local branch of the NAACP may ask the two new members of the Banks Working Group to vote “no” on a development deal because of a lack of minority inclusion on the project.

 

When a state legislator fronm KY was aked what the difference was between SW OH & NKY and why things get done in KY & not in OH - he said the people of NKY realize they have to pull together as a team & work for the greater good of the region.

The local branch of the NAACP may ask the two new members of the Banks Working Group to vote “no” on a development deal because of a lack of minority inclusion on the project.

 

When a state legislator fronm KY was aked what the difference was between SW OH & NKY and why things get done in KY & not in OH - he said the people of NKY realize they have to pull together as a team & work for the greater good of the region.

 

Yeah right!  Where were they when they were asked to help pony up some money for the stadia?  I remember the reply quite well, it amounted to "we won't give any money, but we do want both facilities on the riverfront" (as opposed to baseball at Broadway Commons where it should have been). 

 

Their "regionalism" ends at the Ohio River.