Sometime before Dec. 7, developers Bill Butler and Rob Smygunas are expected to tell Cincinnati and Hamilton County their plans for building the Banks

 

So should we find out within a week?  If so, where will be the first place we hear about it?  The Enquirer?

Sometime before Dec. 7, developers Bill Butler and Rob Smygunas are expected to tell Cincinnati and Hamilton County their plans for building the Banks

 

So should we find out within a week?  If so, where will be the first place we hear about it?  The Enquirer?

 

I would probably stay tuned into CNN if I were you.

bah

I think by Wednesday we may be looking at a plan more sizable than the original Banks plan.  I hope so.

bah

 

Phatty, you know I was being sarcastic, don't you?

 

 

 

Alright UrbanOhio'ers... Is this thing going down by Wednesday, or what... I'm pumped up!

Breaking News

Banks Project is in stalemate, somehow, someone fucked up.

They better get this back on track pretty soon or we're going to need a hail mary to get this through.

If they keep this up, we can put this thread in the abandoned section.  I really don't know what to say.....

of course i new you were being sarcastic....its more a disgussed for the project in general...or should i say lack of project.  I dont know if the news today is good or bad news.  I mean obviously its another delay but the whole corporex deal was pretty shady.  We will just have to wait...longer to see

The best scenario would have the parties coming to terms over the next couple of days to get this worked out.  The most likely scenario is that this goes back to the drawing boards and isn't done until sometime in 06.

With Montgomery Inn looking for a new riverfront location for the banquet center, The Banks would be perfect.

This is truly depressing. Even if it gets back on track, will we even see any construction this year? I still say put Playhouse in Park there and a new Montgomery Inn banquet center makes sense too.

 

<b>Banks deal falls apart

Corporex pulls out of negotiations with Hamilton County</b>

 

By Marla Matzer Rose

and Kimball Perry

Enquirer staff writers

 

A deal that Hamilton County had hoped would result in the development of the long-simmering Banks project on the Cincinnati side of the Ohio River has fallen apart.

 

Covington-based Corporex said today it had advised the county it was withdrawing from negotiations, which had been scheduled to conclude by Wednesday.

 

“In addition to the known county funding difficulties that have delayed the project over the last several years, recent events have further complicated the negotiations,” Corporex executive vice president Tom Banta said in a press release issued at noon.

 

“Construction costs have increased due to the economy and recent natural disasters. In addition, rising interest rates will also have a negative impact on public financing and will further increase the cost of the project.”

 

The Banks deal died, Commissioner Pat DeWine said, when the development company negotiating to build the Banks wanted $30 million in public money to help pay for some of the private development.

 

 

Read Full Article Here: http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051205/BIZ01/312050016

too many emotions to write in words.  Therefore....... :? :x :oops: :cry: :roll: :| :shoot: :wtf: :wtf: :whip: :drunk: :weird: :argue: :argue: :finger: :finger2: :bang: :box: :behind:

Hamilton County's Banks deal unraveling

Dan Monk

 

Corporex Cos. Inc. is walking away from a no-bid deal to lead the development of The Banks riverfront development project, but an Oakley developer hasn't given up the fight yet.

 

Rob Smyjunas, owner of Vandercar Holdings Inc., is trying to find another developer to partner with him in the Banks Development Co. In June, Hamilton County awarded exclusive development rights to the company in an attempt to jump-start the massive riverfront development project known as The Banks. The June deal gave the county and its developers 180 days to work out a master development agreement. The deadline for reaching the master agreement is Dec. 7.

 

This morning, Covington-based Corporex pulled out of the deal, saying rising interest rates and materials costs have made the project less feasible. Smyjunas said other developers from Cincinnati and elsewhere have expressed interest in participating in the project. He thinks he could assemble a new development team if given the chance.

 

 

Read Full Article Here: http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2005/12/05/daily16.html

My slightly more than 2 cents worth...

 

First of all, I have a hard time believing this quote:

 

"This morning, Covington-based Corporex pulled out of the deal, saying rising interest rates and materials costs have made the project less feasible."

 

Interest rates aren't anywhere out of the norm of what should have been expected at this time.  I can't believe the smart folks at Corporex thought rates weren't going to increase over the next year when they made the original deal in June.

 

Second, a Vendercar Holdings partnership without Corporex scares the @#$% out of me.  I'd rather have 3CDC work it and defer any big push until after the Fountain Square project is wrapped up.

Furthermore, the language that is being used by the local news outlets to describe the circumstances of the deal are entirely too fatalistic.  This is not the end of the world and certainly it is not the end of the deal.

Page 1 of trash Cincinnati

Cincinnati leaders, politicians, lawyers and money players waste so much time, and in the end get nothing done for the betterment of the city. The only time something actually happens is when taxpayers get stuck with the bill. There continues to be extremely limited vision in Cincinnati to make things happen. As a minimum, the space between the stadiums could have been a park with walks, trees, flowers, fountains, etc for the general public to enjoy.

 

--Terry Lund, downtown, 02-03, Montgomery, B/A 81-01,, Monday, December 05, 2005 - 6:13:00 PM 

Where to begin? First of all I must say that the planners and developers of this city are subpar at best. Fountain Square did not need renovating. Yes it may have out of date, but there are many parts of our city that need revitalizing before that. The money allocated towards that could of rebuilt main street or cleaned up a portion of over-the-rhine. Now with the "Banks" brushed aside, Cincinnatians will have to get their entertainment fix by crossing the river or driving to the casinos in Indiana. What will it take for Cincinnati to wake up and act now? Ohio is among the top states finacially, and yet we send our business elswhere. I have an idea. If we cannot agree on a way to build an entertainment district, how bout we spend our money on a mass transit system. We do have tunnels built under the city, how bout we use them. This way consumers have multiple low-risk choices and can take the train to Mt. Adams to Main Street to Hyde Park to Clifton, all without entering a car. Do SOME

 

--Paul Langdon, Northside, Monday, December 05, 2005 - 6:02:00 PM 

I am frankly glad that the project fell through. The area needs to be developed, but is another park the answer? How many people go to sawyer point? How frequently do they go? Newport and Covington are not basing development on parks, what would be the advantage on this side of the river. Cinncinnati and Hamilton county need to see beyond they squables if they want to raise awareness and draw pwople downtown.

 

--Jason Perkins, Norwood, Monday, December 05, 2005 - 5:33:00 PM 

Yet another demonstrates of why Newport, the former Tijuana of the midwest, easily kicks Cincinnati's can up and down the river. Is Mike Brown NOW running Cincinnati/Hamilton County?

 

--Mark Sparks, Pierce Twp, Monday, December 05, 2005 - 5:15:00 PM 

This is a chance for our new mayor, new council and new county administrator to rise to the occasion and provide the leadership our community needs. Too much is at stake to let this opportunity slip away once again. Work together and get us moving forward.

 

--Kelly Leon, Walnut Hills, Monday, December 05, 2005 - 4:01:00 PM 

As a resident of downtown and a resident of Cincinnati for 6 years, I can honestly say that this is pathetic. Please, put something there. Anything. It's just dirt. Other cities with half our size and a tenth of our corporate base are creating opportunities while Cincinnati does nothing. Thank God we are doing something about Fountain Square. It may not please everyone, but at least it's an update. Just pathetic.

 

--Jason, Downtown, Monday, December 05, 2005 - 3:59:00 PM 

Go ahead, move away. Spend 3 hours a day in traffic. Be slaves to your kids because they can't ride their bikes to school or to their friend's house. Be slaves to your car. Talking to your neighbors is over-rated anyway. Do not think that just because you move away from the city, you will not be affected by what happens there. If there was no Cincinnati, there would be no Mason, West Chester, Newport, Independence, etc., at least they would not exist like they are today. Covington would not be such an attractive place to live and do business if it weren't for downtown Cincinnati. There will be plenty more opportunities for Cincinnati.

 

--Andy, Burlington, KY, Monday, December 05, 2005 - 3:37:00 PM 

Is anyone really surprised by the Banks project once again collapsing? As long as you have a County and City government that can't get together on simple things, why would you ever think that a developer would invest in a project like the Banks?

 

--Thom Hickerson, Burlington, KY, Monday, December 05, 2005 - 3:15:00 PM 

How many years have gone by and we still have no private development as a result of the tax payers billion dollar stadium investments? The benefactors of the stadiums are responsible - the owners of the Bengals and the Reds. These parties have already got what they wanted and they impeded what could have been a renessaince to this city - the opportunity at Broadway Commons and they have left the tax payers with a mess on the riverfront. Instead of dramatic change for the better we are years and years behind. It is a colossal disgrace.

 

--John Whedon, Clifton, Monday, December 05, 2005 - 3:12:00 PM 

I travel to regional cities like Indy and Columbus and it's a shame to see how far ahead of us they are. Our city council wants to argue about everything and not get anything accomplished. Cincinnati will continue to lag behind the region unless we get rid of city council and trust a strong mayor. Just look across the river at all that development!

 

--todd killinger, hyde park, Monday, December 05, 2005 - 2:57:00 PM 

 

 

Page 2 of Trash Cincinnati

Ever hear, "you snooze, you lose"? That's what the city has done again by waiting until construction and interest rates are on the rise. Sadly, I am not surprised.

 

--sm, Miami Township, Hamilton County, Monday, December 05, 2005 - 2:53:00 PM 

Cincinnati has a lot going for her. Great people (except for the thugs - but that's another subject ),and terrific new facilities downtown. Does this combination make for an attractive tourist destination? Hardly. How do we build on this? Look at some other cities around the country. Take a trip to Memphis and check out the trolley system. Go to Seattle and study the waterfront and Pike St. market. Cross over to Victoria,BC and marvel at their inner harbor.While you are there, check out the cleanliness of the city. You will find quite a difference from, say, East Price Hill. Cincinnati has a lot of assets. We could use a little charm for our visitors. Develop an old fashioned trolley system to move people between our attractions. Bring back our inclines to Price Hill and Mt. Adams to spur development and attract tourists and residents. In short,transform the city into a year round destination; clean,safe,accommodating,and engaging.

 

--Charles Balzer, Cincinnati west side, now Loveland, Monday, December 05, 2005 - 2:34:00 PM 

Great, development at a standstill. Just another reason for me to move to Mason/Lebanon, or better yet maybe I'll move across the river where people actually know how to execute and get the job done. Maybe once Covington/Newport becomes larger than Cincinnati and the Bengals and Reds move over the river, the city will step up to the plate and do something. But by then, it will be too late.

 

--TR, Oakley, Monday, December 05, 2005 - 2:11:00 PM 

Did you notice where the local TV news showed fan reaction to the Sunday Cincinnati Bengals away win over Pittsburg? Try Willies in Covington and Newport on the Landing. No Cincinnati sports bars are in business on the Ohio River!

 

--dick maier, monfort heights, Monday, December 05, 2005 - 2:01:00 PM 

Here we go again - The Banks project is once again on hold. It's absolutely pathetic and pitiful that nothing is being done down there, while Northern Kentucky seems to be leaps and bounds ahead of Ohio with respect to developing it's riverfront. It would be so much easier to simply admit that it's NEVER going to be built, and stop building up the hopes of the people. Go ahead and break out the trucks and start laying the asphalt, because that is all the "Banks" project will ever amount to - a parking lot! I know it, everyone else knows it, so just get it over with and let the city/county work on something else. Or more to the point, TALK about working on something else.

 

--Robert Adams, Fairfield, Monday, December 05, 2005 - 1:57:00 PM 

What a complete shame? If the banks is stalling, expect every other projet in the city to do the same. I'm speechless....

 

--Richard Northcutt, Monday, December 05, 2005 - 1:52:00 PM 

The city of Cincinnati is in deep trouble. Crime is up, jobs are down, and development is at a standstill. Will someone please step up to the plate and DO something??

 

--Brenda Carr, Newport, Monday, December 05, 2005 - 1:44:00 PM 

Same ole', same ole'. What did you expect to happen? The city and county will just have to look across the river to see how things get accomplished.

 

--Charles Egerton, Newport KY, Monday, December 05, 2005 - 1:36:00 PM 

Cincinnati is a joke. I will continue to go to Newport and spend my money.

 

--Brent Matthews, Oakley, Monday, December 05, 2005 - 1:32:00 PM 

I think it is time these agencies, politicians, and corporate execs. cast their "egos" to the side and stop worrying about who is going to profit the most from the development of Cincinnati. Chances are everyone involved is going to make a fortune. We are not talking about some small project, this is a billion dollar development deal. We all know there are many difficulties in the development of land, especially land controlled by two different governmental bodies...so what...get it done and then the people in the tri-state area can actually have something to be proud of when it comes to our fair city. I am tired of saying Cincinnati will be fun in three years...I have been saying that since 2001. My generation will continue to move out in flocks if this continues.

 

--Aaron, Mariemont, Tuesday, July 05, 2005 - 10:31:00 AM

 

Page 3 of Trash Cincinnati

Well I think this is an exciting time to be a Cincinnatian. I am so excited I am putting my $$ where my mouth is and buying a condo downtown. The Fountain Square district revitalization factored into my decision. I said district cause it is so much more than $42M to move the fountain. When it’s done I will gleefully say “I told you so” to all the naysayers… actually maybe I won’t since they will still be hiding at home. But the REST of us will be enjoying the Square and surrounding restaurants. As for expensive parking, if you can’t afford to pay $1 to park, why bother leaving home since you can’t afford to eat out anyway.

 

--LC, Anderson Township, Monday, July 04, 2005 - 11:45:00 PM 

When are we going to see a gambling boat? Hopefully, it will be on the Cincy side of the river. I've heard a lot of ideas like gambling boats or enclosing Ft. Washington Way for the extra space. I think common sense and a little creativity can go a long way into making Downtown Cincinnati the place to be. I am glad to see the project moving forward.

 

--Matt, Burlington, Sunday, July 03, 2005 - 9:29:00 PM 

Why don't we do the people of Cincinnati a huge favor, and just hand the land over to the developers of Newport on the Levee? By the time our "Leaders" come to a decision, there won't be anything left in Downtown Cincinnati.

 

--Greg Kissel, Anderson Twp, Sunday, July 03, 2005 - 12:49:00 PM 

I would like for somebody to explain to me how moving the fountain from here to there and destroying a well-traveled thoroughfare (the Skywalk) is going to increase commerce downtown, commerce being the crucial ingredient to revitalization. I work downtown and would love to shop there after work but I don't feel safe doing so. And it's not just the crime factor - the cleanliness is atrocious. We could obtain immediate benefit at a lot less cost with an occasional powerwash of the sidewalks and Skywalk. Make me feel safe and provide reasonable parking and I will be glad to contribute to downtown commerce by shopping there.

 

--Carol C. Williams, Hyde Park, Sunday, July 03, 2005 - 12:40:00 PM 

I too are extremely disapointed with the developement of Cincinnati or lack of? no parking, no entertainment, not much of anything?@#? Cincinnati Council needs to look accross the river and wake up! the city has two great sports stadiums and nothing around them??? what a shame with such a great sports town.

 

--Joe Cresap, Anderson, Sunday, July 03, 2005 - 12:07:00 PM 

Thankfully, it's an election year. As residents of the Greater Cincinnati Area, there is no better time than now to address these issues with friends, co-workers, and family. Moreover, we must take every opportunity we get to turn the diplomatic megaphone around and shout some concerns back to our future regional leadership. A campaign promise today is one step closer to the accountability we'll seek tomorrow. Most importantly, we must humbly remind ourselves that our own attitudes also can shape the landscape of change. Let us strive for optimism and wisdom in our own private actions and conversations - for tomorrow's leaders may be today's audience, and in that we are, all of us, sculptors of progress.

 

--Ryan Derrow, Cincinnati, Sunday, July 03, 2005 - 11:54:00 AM 

Sadly, when you look at community and economic development in Cincinnati and the County - one observes a broken, fractuous system that struggles to find leadership but fears community-based, grassroots residents holding a greater voice in redevelopment. It's not money, it's not simply capacity - it's the system as a whole from the implementors at the base to the funders at the top. The construction of Public-Private Partnerships (PPPs) reflect more the internal power struggles (and misgivings) of parties that are forced to work together rather than overt partnerships that have defined roles and responsibilities lodged in shared values and outcomes. This holds true in neighborhoods as well as the banks. But, Rome is burning - the flight of population out of the City and the County is in itself a vote against THIS system. Not much time is left. Get it together.

 

--Solidarity Chapman, Pleasant Ridge, Sunday, July 03, 2005 - 9:26:00 AM 

It is abundantly clear since the announcement of the county's plan to jumpstart the Banks, that the people at 3CDC and in City Council are NOT INTERESTED in getting the project completed. How many years has it been now? But do they care? No. They wanted to setup sweetheart deals for their pals where they wouldn't have to put up a dime. The county finds someone willing to invest THEIR OWN MONEY in the project, and these guys go ape. What total jerks. If they really cared they would be thrilled. But I guess they'd rather see a dirt pit down there. Thanks!

 

--Scott Macmann, Oakley, Sunday, July 03, 2005 - 9:25:00 AM 

Fountain square is a huge waste of money. The fountain DOES NOT need to be relocated and tucked back into the square. The monies if spent on the police force would promote a safer downtown. Clean up the roving gangs and the climate which allows for shootings at 6th and Vine. Playing a shell game with the fountain is utter nonsense.

 

--Tom Liguzinski, Western Hills, Sunday, July 03, 2005 - 7:33:00 AM 

Many of the responses so far have been very negative; but I do believe that a city -county merger into a metro form of government would be extremely beneficial.

 

--Jack Geis, Tipp City. Ohio, Saturday, July 02, 2005 - 5:16:00 PM

 

Page 4 of Trash Cincinnati

I think spend spending all that money on Fountain Square is a complete waste of money. This money could be used to speed up the development of the Banks project or another thing this city needs is some sort of a metro rail system that runs from downtown to the northern communities and to Northern Ky. Some one from Cincy should go down to Houston, Texas to see the Metro system they have there, it is above ground and runs from downtown thru the different districts of the city, It is well used and only costs a dollar to use. Why can't our city council do things in a more positive way, things the city really need. And another thing, I think the people should have a voice in this decision, this is something that should be put on the ballet to be voted on, not just a decision of the Council. We need someone who can be a voice for the people.

 

--D.M.E., Walnut Hills, Saturday, July 02, 2005 - 8:33:00 AM 

The fountain square project is a terrific waste of money. Nothing is going to bring people down town as long as there is the high price of parking. I have my choice of malls to find anything I want with parking free.

 

--Lester Rowekamp, Mt. Healthy, Oh., Friday, July 01, 2005 - 10:46:00 AM 

Glad to see that there was a chance to say goodbye to the Square. Last week we took our granddaughters on a photo-tour of the Square. We will now have a record of how it (was) is.I was there for the dedication of the present Square on October 16,1971 and keep the memories.Like the memory on the 1990 World Series late-nite party or the Chicken Dance at last year's Octoberfest.Oh, One more thing, What happens to the "stage"?Where will the politicals stand to "dedicate" their new playground.I'll just keep my pictures.

 

--Jim Luebbers, Friday, July 01, 2005 - 8:34:00 AM 

Downtown needs high end grocery stores. Places for breakfast during weekends.

 

--Jim Pan, Prospecat Hill, Saturday, June 25, 2005 - 7:37:00 PM 

This is just an example of City Council following their egos, instead of what is right for the city. City Council has proven time in and time out that they are not capable to get the job done on any development project. Their egos are bigger then their abilities. Bill Butler has accomplished more then any council member aboard and would do an excellent job developing the banks. If Vandercar had never got involved with the development in Oakley it would still be a very ugly piece of real estate today. Leave fountain square alone, give the power and money to the police instead of whipping them for everything they do wrong, and turn everything into a 24 hour city with an ample police force and we will be the best city in the business!!! Most importantly team up with private developers instead of city council and the 3cdc coming up with every idea.(Bill Butler would have had the banks finished by now!)I applaud the County for stepping up to the plate and forcing council to step out of the

 

--William Jackson Skyy Properties LLC, Real Estate Developer in Cincinnati and Northern Ky, Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 9:54:00 PM 

Our downtown leads A LOT OF VIBRANCY.....the new plans for Fountain Square are not going to provide it at all. They have gone against the Cincinnati publics wishes and done just what they wanted. Maybe we just need to rally for a new form of City government. I AM EXTREMELY DISSAPPOINTED. I live downtown...no grocery..no affordable place to eat after 7pm....high crime....no movies to attend....and NOW ...the fountain will be hidden...the square will be gone...the skywalk that offered security and protection from the elements will be gone. WHAT ARE THEY THINKING....oh...they aren't are they. We need a city government that is for the people that live and work in downtown Cincinnati. Guess I'll just keep crossing the river every weekend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

--Nancy, Downtown, Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 9:44:00 AM 

Concentrate on downtown core. 1. Fntn Sq is too small - think bigger! Open core up and connect it to the river. Clear the 2 blocks between Walnut & Vine, from 3rd to 5th St (save only US Bank Bldg) and make an open, Central Park type environment. Cap Ft Wa Way. This will create a critical mass connecting the river attractions with the core - also jump start private investment, bldgs, restaurants & attractions. Max residential in The Banks to feed downtown activity. 2. Build a large amount of parking under the 2 new blocks of open space to bring foot traffic into downtown from the stadiums and river.

 

--Chris Grabarz, New Hope, PA, Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 2:50:00 PM 

Good luck with the Banks project, but I would estimate it will take a long time to get this effort completed. It amazes me how little coordination seems to be able to happen between Hamilton Co. and the City of Cincinnati. I feel very fortunate that Indianapolis merged its city and county governments 35 years ago. We all feel like we are part of the same community and understand the need to cooperate. The long history of a strong mayor has helped immensely as well. Central Indiana is now expanding the regional approach by working with the seven counties adjacent to Marion Co. (Indpls) to jointly fund a new retractable roof domed football / multi-purpose stadium and nearly doubling the size of the convention center to around 700,000 square feet of exhibit space. The convention center - regularly bringing 25,000 - 35,000 visitors downtown at a time - has been the real key to downtown Indy's revitalization. (The three mega auto races and NCAA and other big sports events (and Lilly En

 

--Tom Beck, Indianapolis - near downtown, Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 12:41:00 AM 

I do not live in Cincinnati, but I maintain my interest in, and love of the city. I am amazed at the years of constant political bickering and postering between city and county officials. No major project has ever been completed without endless arguments, delays. It is if the city/county are slowly moving into the future, despite endless "kicking and screaming" by those supposedly in charge of progress. No wonder other cities seem to be progressing faster! The Banks (8 years and counting), Queen City Square, PhaseII(10 years and counting) and Fountain Square are worthy projects to be completed!

 

--Jack Geis, Tipp City, Ohio, Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 2:31:00 PM 

I agree with Mr Roudebush and Mr Augustine. We moved to Cincinnati from Cleveland in 1980 and I remember calling my friends to tell them that there are actually people downtown during non business hours...WHAT HAPPENED? The story on todays Enquirer supports the concept of tearing down the barriers caused by the constant infighting between the City and the County and going to a unigovernment. Our elected leaders need to put aside themselves and think about what is good for the total region. Even though I live in Clermont County I still like to go downtown and support Cincinnati and what merchants remain. This is today harder to do!

 

--Edward Mazza, Amelia, Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 1:44:00 PM 

 

Page 5 of Trash Cincinnati

City Council should rethink the Fountain project. Rather than spend $42,000,000 to "improve" a landmark, it could do alot to improve the safety of Cincinnati. As for the Banks project, was any other company given a chance to make a proposal for being the "preferred developer"? As for the comment in Tuesday's paper that "the developers we were working with insisted on secrecy" sure sounds like "backdoor" politics. If I recall correctly and I'm not sure of this, but wasn't Corperex involved in a scandal over "backdoor" bid inproprieties in Northern Kentucky. I sure hope that the Commissioners aren't on their way to a scandal!

 

--Richard Marks, Mt. Carmel, Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 11:12:00 AM 

I believe the county commissioners did the correct thing, regardless if it was done in "secret" or not. The city has been dragging its feet for far too long, arguing over on3e thing or another, to no avail. If the county had let the city in on the discussions, I am certain they would still be arguing. Luken et.al., don't have a clue on what to do to get anything done. Start turing those shovels over!

 

--Cliff Scholes, Forest Park, Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 11:02:00 AM 

The infighting between City Council and the County Commissioners is just another sign of how flat the wheels of progress are within Cincinnati. City Council recently surprised the citizens with a $42 Million dollar plan to rework Fountain Square which is the equivalent to moving the furniture around in a room that's way too small. I'm not aware that the Council made a huge effort to let the people of Cincinnati know they were working on this less than creative plan. It's evident to most people that the objective to revitaize the downtown area with the Fountain Square project is huge waste of money. Many of the citizens aired their disgust.... but Council plans to move forward. Now the Commisioners are working on moving the Banks project forward. This project does have the potential to really revitalize the downtown area if done right. So now City Council gets indignant and thinks they were left out of the loop. The fact is the entire City Council is very much out of the loop on underst

 

--Chuck Roudebush, Finneytown, Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 8:27:00 AM 

What progress? You mean the progress made by the County? Cincinnati is run by a "Weak Mayor" and a Council of Clowns.You can take Fountain Square and turn it upside down and it will not revialize downtown Cincinnati.This city will never be revitalized till the criminal elements and gangs are eliminated.

 

--Anthony J .Augustine, Monfort Heights, Monday, June 13, 2005 - 10:33:00 PM

 

How many of these people actually take action and involve themselves?

I think half of these people are crazy.

Actually, I'm impressed with those comments, in that most of them are not of the typical Cincinnati-bashing stock.  That is, they're bitching about city leaders rather than carrying on about how Cincinnati is a hellhole that can never be saved, and so on.

 

As usual some of them are stupid, but for the rest, I can't blame people for being frustrated by this continued nonsense (which I don't even comprehend due to not following it closely.)  Maybe in 20 years they can abandon The Banks in a special centennial celebration of the demise of the rapid transit loop.

Sounds like Corporex got cold feet.  Too bad.

 

Hopefully this doesn't affect the Gregorys' project.

I find Corporex's reasoning flawed and untrue.  They had to have backed out of the project for some other reason that they're not telling us.

 

Also, I wish it had been Vandercar who backed out and not Corporex.  I haven't seen anything worthwile that Vandercar has developed.

Here's my question:

 

Why can't the city/county parcel out the land, and through zoning and design restrictions, let individual developers take a crack at it? Honestly, isn't that what zoning is for anyway?

--Carol C. Williams, Hyde Park, Sunday, July 03, 2005 - 12:40:00 PM 

 

Hey, Carol Williams chimed in.  Now what does Clyde Gray have to say?

Here's my question:

 

Why can't the city/county parcel out the land, and through zoning and design restrictions, let individual developers take a crack at it? Honestly, isn't that what zoning is for anyway?

 

I have no idea technically why they couldn't.  That would be a nice way to go about it.

 

But it would never fly because:

1) Massive project plans get politicians (re)elected.

2) Massive project plans get developers lots of money.

 

Merry Christmas, Cincinnati:

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe a large chunk of the PBS overrun was due to the city's demand to move the entire complex west by a block, requiring much more land acquisition.  This move was necessary to open up more land in the central riverfront for future development.  However, the present delay likely wouldn't have happened if sales tax receipts would have grown at their predicted pace; we largely have the terrorist attack in 2001 to blame for the economic downtown that put the county in this position.

 

 

>I have no idea technically why they couldn't. 

 

I believe this primarily has to do with the county's desire to build garages to developer's specifications with regards to elevator shafts and access ramps.  If the county were to go ahead and build generic garages without specific buildings in mind the design might discourage specific developments.  Also, large buildings with hundreds of apartment units might require additional above-ground parking decks in order to provide adequate parking for downtown commuters and sports events.   

 

 

Sounds like Corporex got cold feet.  Too bad.

 

Hopefully this doesn't affect the Gregorys' project.

 

I suspect this actually helps the Gregorys' project. Less competition to attract business (retailers and restaurants) that are interested in a riverfront location.

Banks deal collapses as developer pulls out

Cincinnati's new mayor looks on the positive side

 

By Marla Matzer Rose and Kimball Perry

Enquirer staff writers

 

Hamilton County and Cincinnati city officials stood together Monday to pledge that the long-anticipated residential/retail Banks development is not dead after a developer unexpectedly withdrew from negotiations to handle the project.

 

Covington-based Corporex said Monday it had advised the county it was withdrawing from negotiations, which had been scheduled to conclude by Wednesday, the 180-day deadline. The company blamed the economy and the slow pace of negotiations.

 

The county hastily called a news conference at its downtown offices on Court Street on Monday afternoon after being taken by surprise by Corporex's late-morning announcement.

 

"I don't think the taxpayers have anything to be disappointed about today," said Mayor Mark Mallory of Cincinnati, who attended the announcement with County Commissioners Phil Heimlich, Pat DeWine and Todd Portune. "I think they have a reason to be excited today."

 

 

Read Full Article Here: http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051206/NEWS01/512060354

A side bar with the above story...

 

MALLORY, COMMISSIONERS VOW TO COOPERATE

 

As Hamilton County's commissioners learned at noon Monday that the deal to develop the Banks was dead, Commission President Phil Heimlich picked up the phone and called Cincinnati's new mayor.

 

Mark Mallory, in his third day on the job, dropped other plans so he could stand next to the three commissioners and insist the Banks deal will be revived "in a collaborative and cooperative way."

 

 

Read Full Sidebar Here: http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051206/NEWS01/512060354

Banks setback opens a new door

Editorials

 

Six months ago Hamilton County surprised its partners by unilaterally announcing a behind-the-scenes deal to name a preferred developer on the Banks riverfront development project. The county gave a partnership of Corporex Cos., and Vandercar Holdings exclusive rights to negotiate a master development plan for the $600 million project.

 

Monday, two days before that deal was to expire, came another surprise announcement: Corporex, unable to make the numbers work, was pulling out of the deal. In a hurry-up press conference designed to put the best face on a bad day, the three commissioners took turns saying this bad news was actually a great opportunity for the county.

 

The truth is this latest development is a six-month setback in what is arguably the most important development project in the region.

 

The region's project

 

 

Read Full Editorial Here: http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051206/EDIT01/512060301

Slip-sliding away

 

Cincinnati's new mayor and the three Hamilton County commissioners put on a brave face Monday when word came that the Corporex Cos. is pulling out of The Banks project. But the fact remains, this was yet another setback.

 

This one cost the region about six months, created a new variety of ill will between the city and Hamilton County, and sent a booming signal to developers across the country that Cincinnati is still chasing its own tail.

 

The one positive glimmer of hope is that the city and the county will have learned enough of a lesson to regroup and get it right next time.

 

 

Read Full Article Here: http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051207/EDIT/512070323/1003

Bortz: County botched Banks

 

By Greg Paeth

Post staff reporter

 

One of the owners of a company that was a finalist in the competition to become developer of The Banks three years ago said the massive riverfront project is doomed to fail as long as Hamilton County commissioners are running the show.

 

Former Cincinnati Mayor Arn Bortz, a partner in Towne Properties, said county commissioners made a huge mistake in June when they decided to take the project away from the Port Authority and announced that they had reached a preliminary development agreement with a partnership made up of Vandercar Holdings and Covington-based Corporex Cos.

 

Corporex, a well-respected developer in the region, stunned the county Monday when it announced that it was backing out of the deal after failing to negotiate a contract with the county.

 

The Banks, estimated to cost between $600 million and $800 million, is part of an overall $2 billion project that includes the cost of the stadiums, the National Underground Railroad Freedom Center and highway, street and parking improvements.

 

Hamilton County officials, whose development deal with Corporex-Vandercar expires today, said they plan to seek proposals from other developers for a project that has been discussed for about 10 years.

 

 

Read Full Article Here: http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051207/NEWS01/512070344

It is painful, but I suspect there is a lot of truth to it.  Towne Properties has a good history of development in the region.  Someone should listen to them.  They didn't get to be so big by making a lot of mistakes.

 

    "...They did not have enough information about the public investment in the site."

 

    Those are the key words. Developers are not jumping on the opportunity to build The Banks because they know that they will not make money on it without a heavy government subsidy. Can you blame them?

On the Playhouse, from the 12/8/05 Cincinnati Post:

 

 

Decision on new theater on hold

By Jerry Stein

Post staff reporter

 

Cincinnati Playhouse in the Park is taking a wait-and-see position on building a new theater on the riverfront after one of two developers hired to advance The Banks project pulled out.

 

With the exit of Covington-based Corporex Cos., Playhouse Executive Director Buzz Ward was hard-pressed to interpret what the effect will be on the Playhouse's possible move from Mount Adams.

 

"The answer is, I don't know. We really don't know anything now except that Corporex is not the developer," Ward said.

 

"What we don't know is what is going to happen to The Banks. Until we know something, we really can't figure out whether or not we are doing something there."

 

 

Read Full Article Here: http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051208/NEWS01/512080362

 

The Playhouse had commissioned a strategic planning study to determine the feasibility of building a new theater at its present site or in The Banks, a residential-retail-entertainment development between the riverfront stadiums with a price tag estimated at $600 million to $800 million.

 

I wonder if they considered a location on Fountain Square.  It would be nice to have a venue like the Playhouse in the redeveloped Fountain Area.

^ i dont know about that.  there isnt any room on the square to build it and it you consider the 5th and race site as a possible location it wont really have a connection with the square atmosphere.  yes its pretty close, but the Arronoff is just as close and i dont know of any significant impact it has had on square activity.   

"The answer is the same as before," he [buzz Ward] said. "At some point in time, we will have to fish or cut bait. We can't wait three decades."

 

LOL....

 

It sure feels like it's been that long already, doesn't it?

My favorite dirt hole:

 

http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=39.09723~-84.509502&style=o&lvl=2&scene=1992606&sp=aN.39.097134_-84.509522_DIRT%20HOLE_

 

And as a side note, this new Windows Live Local - pretty damn cool...

Grasscat could you create a form letter that everyone on this site could be signatories to.  I'm not a good writer, nor have I done this before.  The public at this point has received no information and I am wondering why the city, county, and private interests are unable to come to a conclusion.

As is evidenced by the "Slumlord of the Week" thread (which I haven't updated in two weeks), I don't have the time for that, but I'd definitely sign on if someone else wants to take a crack at it.

From the 12/11/05 Enquirer:

 

 

Banks project regroups

Analysis: Questions swirl after collapse

By Marla Matzer Rose and Cliff Peale

Enquirer staff writers

 

Perhaps it was an omen that the 180-day negotiating period between Hamilton County and developers selected to build the $600 million riverfront complex known as the Banks was set to expire on Pearl Harbor Day.

 

Last Monday, six months after its surprise selection of the developers for the $600 million riverfront project, the county was caught off guard itself by a press release announcing that Corporex, one of two developers in the partnership known as Banks Development Co., was pulling out of negotiations.

 

A reporter broke the news to county commissioners, who hastily huddled, then called new Cincinnati Mayor Mark Mallory.

 

Standing side by side at a quickly called press conference Monday afternoon, they put on a positive spin.

 

Read Full Article Here: http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051211/BIZ01/512110338/1076/rss01

Money hang-up likely inevitable

Corporex not alone in Banks opinion

Dan Monk and Lucy May

Senior Staff Reporters

 

As Cincinnati and Hamilton County leaders meet for the first time to discuss a bidding process for The Banks riverfront development, some say the project faces an inescapable dilemma: Public subsidies will have to be bigger than the $65 million Hamilton County has offered to date.

 

Corporex Cos. Inc. of Covington backed out of The Banks project this week, citing higher materials costs and rising interest rates. Assistant County Administrator Eric Stuckey said Corporex CEO Bill Butler wanted tax-increment financing revenue to pay for parts of the project that county officials thought should be privately funded. Stuckey said Butler's position would have cost the county roughly $30 million more than it was willing to spend.

 

As it searches for new developers, however, some argue that Butler's stance will form a baseline for future bidders to develop The Banks, the long-awaited residential, retail and park development proposed to sit between Paul Brown Stadium and Great American Ball Park.

 

"The Corporex folks reached the same conclusion that any qualified developer will reach once they look at the numbers," said Arn Bortz, a principal with Towne Properties LLC, which was on the short list of development teams being considered for the project before the Corporex team was tapped for the job.

 

 

Read Full Article Here: http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2005/12/12/story1.html

An Editorial Piece from the Business Courier

 

 

The Banks project needs new magic

 

 

 

The Banks is like the rabbit that just won't pop out of the hat, no matter who waves the wand.

 

This time, it was the Hamilton County Commissioners, who wrested the riverfront project away from the city and the Port of Greater Cincinnati Development Authority last June, and summarily gave a partnership of Corporex Cos. and Vandercar Holdings the go-ahead to come up with a development plan.

 

But Corporex pulled out Dec. 5, leaving the commissioners to make the announcement with an empty hat and pasted-on smiles. They were joined by Mayor Mark Mallory, who hopes to apply some diplomacy to get the city back in the game.

 

But it looks like neither city nor county has the magic when it comes to making the residential/retail/office project a reality. The main problem has been the inability to fund the garages that will underpin the project. Revenues from the county's sales tax won't cover the cost.

 

 

Read Full Editorial Here: http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2005/12/12/editorial2.html

City, county proceed with Banks

 

By Kimball Perry

Enquirer staff writer

 

Hamilton County commissioners will announce next week that site preparation will begin early in January for two blocks of the Banks project, according to a source familiar with the project.

A news conference with Cincinnati Mayor Mark Mallory to make the announcement was scheduled for today but canceled at noon because of a scheduling conflict.

The lead developer pulled out of the Banks project last week.

 

 

Read Full Article Here: http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051215/NEWS01/399990047

Wow.  Gutsy.

 

Mark Mallory seems to be doing a good job of getting folks on the same page with a positive attitude.  This, along with him meeting with NKY leaders is encouraging...

YES!

 

I believe Mark Mallory was sent from above. ;)

 

This is great news! He is doing a great job so far and I love the way he ACTUALLY takes responsibility for things (see speeches & city addresses). He's got the attitude that if something fails, he is to blame (at least to me).