Carter/Dawson details Banks office building

 

Banks developer Carter/Dawson on Tuesday unveiled its design for a 14-story office building, planned for the corner of Walnut and Second streets.

 

In a presentation to the [CompanyWatch allows you to receive email alerts with stories related to your companies of interest. <p>You can watch up to ten companies at a time.</p>] Cincinnati Urban Design Review Board, Bailey Pope, vice president of design and construction for the Harold A. Dawson Co., described the developers’ ideas for the long-awaited riverfront project.

 

Full story text is available at

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/03/23/daily26.html

 

^ Good news! A 14-story building adds height for sure.

 

Here is some official tidbit from today:

 

Latest Schematic Designs for The Banks Unveiled

 

Cincinnati, OH and Atlanta, GA (March 24, 2008) –The Master Development Team of Carter and The Dawson Company unveiled its latest schematic designs for the first phase of The Banks today at a Cincinnati Urban Design Review Board (UDRB) meeting.

 

The renderings incorporate more design details than preliminary renderings unveiled in June 2008 and include an additional structure – the office building to be placed on the corner of Walnut and Second Street. The renderings capture components of Phase 1A and Phase 1B, including stairwell and elevators head houses, that illustrate a more complete vision for the development than earlier versions.

 

“These renderings help convey the overall ambiance we’re striving to create for the development – one of an active, pedestrian-friendly, downtown neighborhood,” said Bailey Pope, vice president of design of construction for the Dawson Company. “By including renderings for all uses – apartments, office and retail – the public can start to understand the shape and feel of the urban spaces that we’re planning for the development.”

 

Pope noted a few highlights of the latest renderings, such as Freedom Way’s design and the apartments’ special window treatments. “We’ve designed Freedom Way to be lined with shops and restaurants and serve as outdoor living space for the city,” said Pope. “We’ve paid special attention to the windows and balconies to balance between the privacy of the dwellings and the desire for active engagement of the street scene.”

 

The new renderings incorporate suggestions from the UDRB, a citizen advisory board to the city that reviews projects architecturally to help create designs consistent with Cincinnati’s urban master plan. The UDRB reviewed preliminary designs last June, and the development team has continued conversations with the UDRB throughout the design review process.

 

Developers expect to continue to refine these schematic designs to reflect recent UDRB member input.

 

Individual architects presented drawings today that depict the character of individual structures they’ve been contracted to design. The architects presenting their designs include:

 

          o Cole + Russell and Moody-Nolan for the Phase 1A apartments and retail

          o Cooper Carry for the Phase 1B office building

          o THP with DNK Architects for the stairwell and elevator head houses

 

The renderings will be available at www.carterdawson.com after the official unveiling.

 

The Banks is a joint City of Cincinnati, Hamilton County, Carter, Dawson project.  Once completed, The Banks will be Cincinnati’s largest single, mixed-use development and be composed of a dynamic blend of residential, office, hotel and retail components. Phase 1A of the riverfront development is under construction and will include a minimum of 300 apartments and 70,000 square feet of retail. 

 

Press release provided by

http://www.carterdawson.com/press-releases/03-24-2009.aspx

From the Business Courier.....

 

 

Wow, what starchitect came up with that office building :?

 

 

Carter/Dawson details Banks office buildingBusiness Courier of Cincinnati - by Dan Monk Senior Staff Reporter

 

 

Banks developer Carter/Dawson on Tuesday unveiled its design for a 14-story office building, planned for the corner of Walnut and Second streets.

 

In a presentation to the Cincinnati Urban Design Review Board, Bailey Pope, vice president of design and construction for the Harold A. Dawson Co., described the developer's ideas for the long-awaited riverfront project.

 

Full story text is available at

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/03/23/daily26.html

a little boxey i suppose, but the reflections will be cool.

 

It would be sweet if they made roof-top decks on the apartments

Its not great, but I can live with it.  I'm sure most people on here will absolutely hate it.  They seem to be focusing heavily on street level activity, which is great. 

 

Anyone else think this is going to look a little out of place without a cap over FWW?  There needs to be a connection to downtown or else it will feel like an island.  Its funny how much this project really does parallel Atlantic Station in ATL.  Atlantic Station is also separated from downtown ATL (well technically midtown) by a canyon of interstate preventing it from connecting to the center of the city. I am really hoping for good news on those decks.

The caps over FWW have a price tag of about $110 million and they will connect 2nd and 3rd.  For $102 million you can build phase 1 of the streetcar connecting 2nd and 3rd and 4th and 5th and 12th,and McMicken.  And Main to Elm and 15th and Race to 7th and Walnut.

It does seem to mildly resemble the Queen City Square stuff.

Pretty cool.  Ofcourse it looks boring until we see it in real life.  But we have to be thankful because this rendering is the best they've had so far.

The caps over FWW have a price tag of about $110 million and they will connect 2nd and 3rd. For $102 million you can build phase 1 of the streetcar connecting 2nd and 3rd and 4th and 5th and 12th,and McMicken. And Main to Elm and 15th and Race to 7th and Walnut.

 

For the price reason alone, in these economic times, a cap will provide little ROR in comparison to a streetcar.

 

The two levels of parking that the building will contain, I believe will be underground in the structure currently being built.

At least the office tower will have a retail component. I think it's alright.

Where is the hotel in that picture?

Renderings preview The Banks offices

By Lisa Bernard-Kuhn • [email protected] • March 25, 2009

 

 

DOWNTOWN - The newest renderings for the first components of The Banks riverfront development - including a 14-story office tower - were unveiled during a special review board meeting Tuesday.

 

The designs were the first to be made public since Cincinnati's Urban Design Review Board got a glimpse of the initial leg of the project last June.

 

Full story text is available at

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090325/BIZ01/903250317/1055/NEWS

Apartments and not condos? An instant win!

There aren't more renderings than just the one?  They talk about all these renderings of apartments facing GABP and then don't include them in the article?  They should be releasing these things left and right for publicity.

 

They aren't on the Carter-Dawson website (which is piss poor IMO).

^ I agree!  Nothing new on their site. I've signed up for their email updates and still haven't received anything. :?

They stated that it would be up after the announcement, but it isn't up as of today. Maybe shoot them a call or e-mail?

Hard to tell with just the one small rendering, but I generally like the office tower design.

 

As mentioned above, it is very similar to Atlantic Station - and I think that's a great thing. The Atlantic Station offices look great in person, and this rendering looks like the same style. If you have to go modern, reflective glass (with blue tones, not black) is the way to go. This style of office building has worked very well in many other cities.

Where is the hotel in that picture?

 

According to the master plan, the hotel is on the block south of the office building, facing the river.  It was the last phase 1 rfq to go out, so there should be renderings within a couple months.

I would think the rendering of the hotel will also be dependent on which hotel they end up having.

 

I like the pressure that the board is putting on them to have the best design they can make, especially in regards to GABP

Wow, that's a piece of sh!t if I've ever seen one. The challenge with office is that the developer wants to extrude the floor plate all the way up to the top to maximize lease-able area, which leaves you with a box. The main problem with this is the massing; it has this giant geometric chunk that's out of scale with the neighbors and it pushes down on the entrance as though it's going to crush everyone under it like a giant shoe. Here are 3 alternatives which would have been better:

 

Still a glass box, but better massing:

http://www.rockgroupdevelopment.com/images/ca/8_east_sanfernan.jpg

 

Repeating the residential facades:

http://www.charlottecondoloft.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/the-ratcliffe.jpg

(Yeah, it's condo, but it could have just as easily been office.)

 

Something conservative, ala D.C. (This one is from Addison Circle, TX):

http://www.franklinstreetproperties.com/HTML%20Portfolio%20Slide%20Shows/Addison%20Circle/Addison%20Circle%20LP/addison_circle_1.jpg

 

Of course there are more flamboyant and beautiful examples out there, but as someone said, this should be subordinate to the museum. I don't, however, think it should be 100% filler, since that is a prominent corner.

I hope they can fill all this new commercial space with tenants. Seems like there is going to be a huge glut of office space in the next few years, especially combined with QCS II. I hope this attracts new downtown tenants and not just a reshuffling that would leave a huge hole in the heart of downtown, with offices moving to the newer digs.

We've had discussion in the previous 129 pages regarding your concern.  Their has been a trend of turning older outdated office space into residential apt. and condos.  Keep in mind that the vacancy rates for downtown Cincy is still lower (sometimes by alot) than most Rust Belt cities.

^Also important to note is that office space deteriorates over time.  If you want the major companies to stay located downtown instead of moving out to Mason (for example), you need to have Class A office space available.

^Not to mention attract new companies to downtown.

It's tough to be too critical of the single, tiny rendering avilable.  The "Glass Box" style skyscraper (mid-rise in this case) has always been about efficiency.  It is the single most efficient way to build a building.  It can be made attractive or ugly depending on few details, such as how the entrance is ornamented, how the curtain wall is designed, and the color/reflective qualities of the glazing.  You'd be amazed at the intracacies of designing a curtain wall, and one can never tell how it's going to look until it's up.

We've had discussion in the previous 129 pages regarding your concern. Their has been a trend of turning older outdated office space into residential apt. and condos. Keep in mind that the vacancy rates for downtown Cincy is still lower (sometimes by alot) than most Rust Belt cities.

 

Bingo. I don't think companies leaving older buildings is as big a deal as people make it to be. Sure, there's musical chairs, but remember those old buildings have potential for residential rehabs. As long as downtown population is increasing, it will help offset the trend towards newer office space.

 

There was actually an interesting article about this somewhere recently ...

 

It was talking about having a "healthy" vacancy rate in order to grow your DT's.

Still no renderings on the website as of 9:32 AM.

 

The website is terrible, by the way.  I would have whomever is in charge of it  :whip:'d

Ditto on the "Updates" email.

Oh, and another thing about the site; when are we going to see the results of the Renaming poll? Which was, IMO, a complete waste of time.

^ PR move at best.  If Vegas was taking bets, I'd put the mortgage up on "The Banks."

Yea I just saw the new rendering of that office building from ground level.  I hope there will be another design because it looks like a lego block with a basket on top lol.  The storefronts and apartments look cool though!

Governor steers stimulus funds to Banks project

Business Courier of Cincinnati

 

The Banks riverfront development project will receive $23.5 million in new federal stimulus funding under a new list of prioritized projects announced by Ohio Gov. Ted Strickland Thursday.

 

The list includes 149 projects that will receive $774 million in funding from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. The list includes projects in every Ohio county. Combined, they are projected to create more than 21,000 Ohio jobs.

 

Full story text is available at

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/03/23/daily47.html

Could they possibly be planning on opening up the garage to the Transit Center under 2nd street?

They will be connected, I'm sure.  Their are already man doors that connect the south side of the Transit Center to the current parking lots.  It would be silly NOT to connect them to the garages too.

I like the fact they say "future rail service" as if they have enough confidence to say we'll definitely get it.  I don't know about you guys but I hate reading articles when they put the word "possible" in front of what could be a cool thing to have.  "possible rail line" eek. 

I do not feel that the office building is terrible.  I think its definitely more edgy than Queen City Square.  This building reminds me a lot of the CareSource building in Dayton.  Sure, the basic massing isn't all that interesting but i like all the plan changes and the different glazing languages to further set those elements off.  That can come off in a very elegant and sophisticated way if its done well. Its not going to turn any heads, but i think it looks pretty good.

 

And whoever keeps saying "Art Deco" on the enquirer comments page needs to give it a rest.  Art Deco is a wonderful thing, but its sure not "progressive". 

If it is remeniscent of the CareSource building, we should all gouge our eyes out.  I think it's an awful waste of an opportunity to throw out vanilla architecture like they have thus far.  Across the river (and I really hate when people do this, so sorry in advance) they took a chance and put a skyline-definer (even without a real skyline).

 

As an urban enthusiast, this has come to piss me off.  What is supposed to be the prime piece of real estate in this city is all the sudden reduced to "let's just put up what works and what we can lease up."  I can understand this from a developer's standpoint - I really can - but the UDRB should be more worried about what the building looks like as a whole rather than freakin' setbacks/build-to's, etc.

The Banks is getting relatively-speaking a crap load of money from the Stimulus. This is probably among the larger amounts going per square foot in the state. Way to bring home the bacon.

Art-Deco

If it is remeniscent of the CareSource building, we should all gouge our eyes out.  I think it's an awful waste of an opportunity to throw out vanilla architecture like they have thus far.  Across the river (and I really hate when people do this, so sorry in advance) they took a chance and put a skyline-definer (even without a real skyline).

 

As an urban enthusiast, this has come to piss me off.  What is supposed to be the prime piece of real estate in this city is all the sudden reduced to "let's just put up what works and what we can lease up."  I can understand this from a developer's standpoint - I really can - but the UDRB should be more worried about what the building looks like as a whole rather than freakin' setbacks/build-to's, etc.

 

My comparison to the caresource building is in reference to the "do something with nothing".  That building is probably exactly what the client wanted against the better judgement of anyone else involved.  That being said, given the limitations of elaborate massing (budget), the skin articulation of the caresource building was done very well.  Gouge your eyes out, really?  If thats your basis for eye couging you must have some serious vision issues at this point. 

 

And as far the ascent goes.  Its a trophy building...to be best experienced from afar.  Its the giant middle finger from bill butler to cincinnati.  We all know none of his buildings respond to urban context so why even bring it up.

 

The actuall building when its ever built will look nothing like this rendering so its really not worth debating.

 

Art-Deco

 

Bingo       

Its the giant middle finger from bill butler to cincinnati.

 

I don't really believe this was his goal, he wanted a signature building to sell condos while at the same time building a landmark building for his hometown.  I am sure there is some ill will between Butler and the Ohio side, but if he is so pissed off why did he just build a new hotel and office building for Humana in Cincinnati that will contribute far more to the tax base than 77 condos?

What's with all the complaining? There is nothing wrong with this:

 

 

It's a perfectly good building. Again, very much like what they've put up at Atlantic Station, which is a very good thing. Frankly, a building like this is going to be much more contemporary and much more aesthetically pleasing than some pretentious deconstructivist experiment.

 

The Ascent is the 1-in-100 "starcitect" building that actually looks good. They got very lucky. If Cincinnati tried to follow that example, we'd end up with dozens of piles of architectural mistakes before we ever got our landmark. So I don't think that's a good strategy.

Yeah they could've hired Frank Gehry and we would've had something that resembles a caved in erector set building.

 

Similar to what they're proposing for Brooklyn's Atlantic Yards...

http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2008/05/05/gal_atlantic-yards-5.jpg

 

I would have liked to see a quality attempt at a modern art deco structure for this prominent spot on the banks. I'm tired of hearing how everything is supposed to take a backseat to the Freedom Center. Why not make The Banks a whole new "architecture district"?

What's with all the complaining? There is nothing wrong with this:

 

 

It's a perfectly good building. Again, very much like what they've put up at Atlantic Station, which is a very good thing. Frankly, a building like this is going to be much more contemporary and much more aesthetically pleasing than some pretentious deconstructivist experiment.

 

The Ascent is the 1-in-100 "starcitect" building that actually looks good. They got very lucky. If Cincinnati tried to follow that example, we'd end up with dozens of piles of architectural mistakes before we ever got our landmark. So I don't think that's a good strategy.

 

I agree 100%. Not every building has to be an architectural masterpiece, and not all of them should be. The Banks is more about the neighborhood, and framing the river, ballparks, and yes - even the Freedom Center.

 

The one thing that does worry me in that photo is the squat 2 story on the corner next to the tall office building.

New to the Carter-Dawson website:

 

 

"In this first round over 3,000 of you participated and the top name was "The Riverfront District" with 35% of the votes. "The Banks" followed closely with 34% of the votes. Additionally, 22% of you took advantage of our write in option, submitting over 750 names. The Carter Dawson master developer team, in conjunction with Strata-G and Northlich, are in the process of considering the best submissions and narrowing the list to a manageable number for one final vote in mid-April. Again, thank you to the creative people of Cincinnati and Hamilton County who obviously have a passion and an interest in what happens in their hometown."

 

 

I for one call BS. I checked out the voting in the last few hours and "The Banks" had 40% (1100+ votes) of the vote followed by "Other" aka the write-ins with 28%, and "The Riverfront District" with 27%.

Still pulling for the dark horse, "Roeblingville"

What's with all the complaining? There is nothing wrong with this:

 

 

 

1)  I'm sorry, but when I see this, all I can think of is: http://www.dukerealty.com/Properties/DynamicHTML.aspx?EntityTypeID=10&EntityID=12013&DevPark=LAK

And that's not what I was looking for in the Banks.

 

Frankly, a building like this is going to be much more contemporary and much more aesthetically pleasing than some pretentious deconstructivist experiment.

 

2) Couldn't agree more.  I'm not suggesting putting an absurd erector set building on that spot.  But something that when you look at it makes someone think, "Wow.  Ya sure don't see that out in Mason/West Chester/Tri-County!"

 

The Ascent is the 1-in-100 "starcitect" building that actually looks good. They got very lucky. If Cincinnati tried to follow that example, we'd end up with dozens of piles of architectural mistakes before we ever got our landmark. So I don't think that's a good strategy.

 

3)  And likewise, I wouldn't want to see anything like the Ascent there.  But IMO, they could have put something there that doesn't harken back to 1990's suburban office park.  Not an unreasonable request of a developer.

 

Take a look at QCS II.  It's not some POS glass block, and it's not something that the layperson would consider art.  But it's attractive, classy, and looks like it belongs.

 

And this whole thing about the whole goal of "reflecting the Freedom Center" is BS... it's an afterthought at best.

 

All that said, I think Carter-Dawson is the right team, and I'm excited.  They're experienced, have skin in the game, and have proven thus far that they can get it done.  But I'm dissappointed in their architecture, especially with this.

If Frank Gehry designed it, it would look like an arrogant fortress.

I was in Nashville last week where they've just finished some new high end condos that would look great on the Cincinnati riverfront.  Unfortunately I hear these are only half-sold so somebody's losing a bunch of money:

 

 

 

A new condo mid-rise at left and a new office building at center:

 

 

That office building has been there for quite awhile now.