Parking garage is open?

 

Yes, since June 1st.

City, brewer ready to sign deal on riverfront beer garden

 

By Lisa Bernard-Kuhn • [email protected] • June 24, 2010

 

DOWNTOWN - Terms of a draft lease agreement for a two-story restaurant and outdoor beer garden on Cincinnati’s riverfront will go before city council’s Finance Committee Monday.

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100624/BIZ01/6250341/1055/NEWS/Deal-close-on-riverfront-beer-garden

They are moving quick!

Seriously?  wood framing?

Yep. Expect there to be noise issues. I was quite surprised when they said they were going to use wood framing at a design meeting a long time ago. I remember touring a condo I was going to buy in downtown Lexington, which had wood framing with some steel supports, and at 4 PM it was pretty damn loud. Music could be heard from the upstairs and downstairs, and you could hear people talk in the adjoining apartment.

Let's hope they took the framing budget and put it into the exterior finishes...

Any news on the office tower there? Are they waiting for a tenant to sign before construction or is that thing going up first regardless?

what is the matter with wood framing.  This is completely non-structural.  There are no additional noise issues associated with wood framing compared to steel framing.  It's better for hanging pictures.

Pictures of the Banks with my New Camera:

 

 

I may be wrong, but aren't there soundproofing options these days such as special insulation or barriers that can be put up on the framing?

I may be wrong, but aren't there soundproofing options these days such as special insulation or barriers that can be put up on the framing?

 

Yes there are, and they're fantastic targets for value engineering.

I was in the South Shore tower yesterday, which is concrete, but you could hear dogs barking in the condos while in the hall.  I don't know how much you can hear them in adjacent condos, but I'm sure you can still hear them a bit.  I would (wood?! HA!) expect that you can't hear them on upper or lower floors though. 

The framing doesn't affect the acoustics as much as the gypsum board and insulation.  If something is really loud, like a mechanical room or a wall that separates commercial from residential space, you can put sound attenuation insulation or panels in the walls.  Between separate residential units any building should have (but is not required to have) double layers of gypsum on either side of a partition.  That will significantly reduce sound transmission between units, whether the framing is metal or wood.

 

A lot of cheaper buildings don't double up the GWB, and instead you have apartments where you can basically have a conversation with your neighbor, through the wall, like in "Office Space."

The framing doesn't affect the acoustics as much as the gypsum board and insulation. If something is really loud, like a mechanical room or a wall that separates commercial from residential space, you can put sound attenuation insulation or panels in the walls. Between separate residential units any building should have (but is not required to have) double layers of gypsum on either side of a partition. That will significantly reduce sound transmission between units, whether the framing is metal or wood.

 

A lot of cheaper buildings don't double up the GWB, and instead you have apartments where you can basically have a conversation with your neighbor, through the wall, like in "Office Space."

 

This is exactly correct.  Soundproofing doesn't have much to do with framing, so framing materials should be a decision based on economics of material and installation costs.

 

Just a couple of other things regarding sound.  In a high end development, they will sometimes have double walls with an air space in between, and insulation + layers of wallboard on both sides of each wall.  This is very effective, in my experience.  Also, instead of double layers of wallboard, there is a special wallboard product that is intended for soundproofing and use in a single layer.

 

Sound transmission is very interesting.  I hear *every* heel click from high heels in the unit above me, in my $180/sq. ft. gateway quarter condo (with steel stud walls, by the way).  It really pisses me off, and I'd suggest anyone buying a condo to make sure they take a woman with stiletto heels with them and send them upstairs, before they buy.  It is usually a function mostly of transmission through rigid materials, and in my case the whole ceiling is sort of like a big stethoscope to the upstream sound energy being delivered to the floor.  The only dependable solution is to break the continuous transmission of sound, either through an isolated air space, or being very careful with using rubber isolators and such.

The sorts of heroic efforts that can be made to soundproof wood or steel framing is almost entirely unnecessary when using poured concrete floor slabs and concrete block walls between units.  Meeting fire codes in many cases forces the use of such materials, but of course not always.  Where typical cavity walls are used, or conventional floor framing, the addition of sound insulation is always necessary but not usually required or implemented.  Fiberglass is the de facto standard for sound and thermal insulation, even though it is arguably the worst product for both purposes.  Polyurethane and Icynene spray foam or even old standbys like blown-in cellulose are great for thermal and acoustic insulation in part because they fill the wall cavities more completely than batts.  They're a bit more expensive to install, but they usually pay back quickly with improved comfort and lower heating/cooling bills.  That, unfortunately, is usually not a consideration for the builders of multi-family buildings.

 

The outside walls are a concern for sound, but with a brick veneer or more substantial cladding than vinyl siding you get a pretty good sound barrier.  The inside walls and floors are a much bigger concern when they're not built up of concrete block.  The design of the spaces can be a big factor too.  When one unit is a mirror image of its neighbor, it's good to plan it so closets, utility rooms, bathrooms, and kitchens are back to back, so they buffer noise between living rooms and bedrooms.  It's also advantageous to do that to simplify the plumbing runs and save cost on that too.  Floors are a bigger problem when they use wood framing, because it's much more difficult to isolate the floor above from the ceiling below, especially with people walking around as jim uber said.  Double-framing to create an air void is expensive (and if it's being framed with wood in the first place then price is already a concern), and isolation membranes and rubber bumpers are generally not well understood or used by those not building home theaters.  A double layer of subfloor and filling the joist cavity with insulation is about the best you can hope for short of a concrete deck. 

The lack of soundproofing is probably one of the primary causes for the unpleasant conditions in tenements and the move to free-standing homes.  I think though that the sound issues are less significant now because many people in these rehabs do not have babies and kids. 

 

The thing about having people live above you is you realize how many people seem to spend the majority of their time at home shuffling around.  What are they doing up there? What are all these things getting dropped?  Why does furniture have to be rearranged on a weekly basis? 

 

People's routines, especially when cooking, involve a lot of shuffling. I understand that.  Kids running around, I understand that.  What's going on the rest of the time to cause all these sliding noises I have no idea. 

 

Regular insulation goes a long way in reducing sound by itself too. My Dad's house doesn't have insulation between the first and second floors and you can hear everything and that would have easily changed if he would have put an actual ceiling without insulation on the first floor instead of leaving the beams and the second floors floor exposed. In the end I don't think noise is going to be a big issue at the banks. At least not from other stores, it will be the traffic that will be louder.

The thing about having people live above you is you realize how many people seem to spend the majority of their time at home shuffling around. What are they doing up there? What are all these things getting dropped? Why does furniture have to be rearranged on a weekly basis?

 

People's routines, especially when cooking, involve a lot of shuffling. I understand that. Kids running around, I understand that. What's going on the rest of the time to cause all these sliding noises I have no idea.

 

You clearly aren't getting any.

I think it's all psychological.  If you let that stuff bother you then it will...and all of the time.  If you invite a bunch of hot girls over or own noobs in Halo or watch a ton of fighting movies, you're golden.  It'll blend in lol.

>You clearly aren't getting any.

 

I'll tell you sometime about the time I was riding Greyhound on Valentine's Day. 

The thing about having people live above you is you realize how many people seem to spend the majority of their time at home shuffling around. What are they doing up there? What are all these things getting dropped? Why does furniture have to be rearranged on a weekly basis?

 

People's routines, especially when cooking, involve a lot of shuffling. I understand that. Kids running around, I understand that. What's going on the rest of the time to cause all these sliding noises I have no idea.

 

You clearly aren't getting any.

 

When I lived at the Shillito, my neighbor used to have a different girl in there every night (nice job+bachelor status+loft+Downtown+15 bars within walking distance=Perfect setup). They were so damn loud. Before I realized what was going on, I assumed that he was just listening to porn really with the volume cranked.

 

Eventually, I went over and we had to talk ... he stopped after that (or moved to the other side of the wall).

>You clearly aren't getting any.

 

I'll tell you sometime about the time I was riding Greyhound on Valentine's Day. 

 

Awesome.  Sounds like the elevator pitch for a new hilarious summer teen movie.

The thing about having people live above you is you realize how many people seem to spend the majority of their time at home shuffling around. What are they doing up there? What are all these things getting dropped? Why does furniture have to be rearranged on a weekly basis?

 

People's routines, especially when cooking, involve a lot of shuffling. I understand that. Kids running around, I understand that. What's going on the rest of the time to cause all these sliding noises I have no idea.

 

You clearly aren't getting any.

 

When I lived at the Shillito, my neighbor used to have a different girl in there every night (nice job+bachelor status+loft+Downtown+15 bars within walking distance=Perfect setup). They were so damn loud. Before I realized what was going on, I assumed that he was just listening to porn really with the volume cranked.

 

Eventually, I went over and we had to talk ... he stopped after that (or moved to the other side of the wall).

 

I think I know that guy, real big guy right?

^LOL

 

...and to think, we almost became the next Chicago at one point.  Cincy is rockin' right now;)

 

The steel is shooting up fast at The Banks too.  Looking good.

^LOL

 

...and to think, we almost became the next Chicago at one point. Cincy is rockin' right now;)

 

The steel is shooting up fast at The Banks too. Looking good.

 

they're now doing wood framing in the upstairs as well.

Jesus, will anything stop Cincinnati? We're in the middle of an economic collapse, and the city is undergoing a massive buildout. First the new skyscraper, now The Banks. What's going to happen when the national economy rebounds? A 1000-footer?

 

It is funny, but don't forget to mention that Cincinnati has now secured $114.5M of the $128M to construct a modern streetcar system.  Construction for that is anticipated to begin this fall with the first riders boarding in early 2013.

I just received these HQ aerial renderings of The Banks development.  These renderings show some of the vision for the later phases around Paul Brown Stadium, and include the look of the new Cincinnati Riverfront Park.  The only thing they missed in the rendering are the caps over FWW, but nonetheless, terrific stuff.

 

Day

 

Night

^where's the Moerlein Lager House gonna be?

^where's the Morelein Ale house gonna be?

 

The Moerlein Lager House is not accurately portrayed in these renderings, but it is the small building located at Mehring Way and Main Street (furthest building south along Main Street directly across the street from Great American Ball Park).

BTW, the new Moerlein Lager House will look like this:

 

 

^ Thanks...

 

I was hoping it would be more of classic beer garden, its kind of modern

Fantastic.  I see they added the glass on the tiara.  Good stuff.

The Moerlein Lager House is not accurately portrayed in these renderings, but it is the small building located at Mehring Way and Main Street (furthest building south along Main Street directly across the street from Great American Ball Park).

 

Don't the Bengals have a veto over the development on the blocks adjacent to PBS?

The twin buildings directly East of PBS are interesting.  It would be pretty damn cool if there were buildings of that height (8 floors?) that close to PBS.  It would make the make the project feel pretty dense and connected to the Stadium. 

 

It probably won't happen though.

I would take this view any day of the week:

 

A couple photos I grabbed last week at the Reds game. I'm sure the steel is even higher than this now:

 

 

^ See: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,2772.0/msg,494637.html

those aerial renderings are just sick.

Looking at all of the forums, websites, etc. I still can't fully determine if this new office building is part of Phase I and currently under construction. Looking at the "official" The Banks website it seems to indicate yes. However, I'm not sure if Phase I is actually a number of smaller "phases" or not?

 

http://www.thebankscincy.com/office.aspx?SiteMapNodeId=832cd1bc-3f68-4adb-ace1-1981933cb30f

 

Any thoughts and/or confirmation? This 15-story tower would look nice down there - sooner than later, of course.

 

 

^ See: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,2772.0/msg,494637.html

 

Yep, game was a few days after that.

Pile driving has begun for the next underground garage, west of the Freedom Center.  At this point it looks like it might only reach to the former Pete Rose Way, either to be expanded at a future date or filled with dirt possibly shoved north from the existing fill supporting Ted Berry Way. 

Just a reminder that Trent Germano will be presenting and answering questions on The Banks project at the Downtown Residents Council meeting tomorrow night (7/13 @6pm Tower Room in the Main Branch of the Public Library).  I'm sure he won't answer some questions like prospective retail tenants, but it could still be pretty informative.

Looking at all of the forums, websites, etc. I still can't fully determine if this new office building is part of Phase I and currently under construction. Looking at the "official" The Banks website it seems to indicate yes. However, I'm not sure if Phase I is actually a number of smaller "phases" or not?

 

http://www.thebankscincy.com/office.aspx?SiteMapNodeId=832cd1bc-3f68-4adb-ace1-1981933cb30f

 

Any thoughts and/or confirmation? This 15-story tower would look nice down there - sooner than later, of course.

 

 

 

Walking by the development, it appears that they haven't started any work on the building.  Right now it is pretty much a blank concrete slab if memory serves correctly

Looking at all of the forums, websites, etc. I still can't fully determine if this new office building is part of Phase I and currently under construction. Looking at the "official" The Banks website it seems to indicate yes. However, I'm not sure if Phase I is actually a number of smaller "phases" or not?

 

http://www.thebankscincy.com/office.aspx?SiteMapNodeId=832cd1bc-3f68-4adb-ace1-1981933cb30f

 

Any thoughts and/or confirmation? This 15-story tower would look nice down there - sooner than later, of course.

 

It is not out for bid and I have not seen any construction drawings.  Until they find a major tenant (or a few smaller ones), consider that space an empty concrete pad.

 

For a time line comparison, the apartment building finishes went out for bid in late January 2010. 

^ It brings up my lingering concern that once Phase I is finished it may be another 5 or 10 years before they begin real construction on the the area West of the Freedom Center.  Someone please explain why I am wrong.

You may be right.  It will depend on whether the economy picks up and how quickly the storefront and apartments in phase 1 fill up.

Pile driving has begun for the next underground garage, west of the Freedom Center.

 

Looking Southeast from 2nd & Race Streets:

^ It brings up my lingering concern that once Phase I is finished it may be another 5 or 10 years before they begin real construction on the the area West of the Freedom Center. Someone please explain why I am wrong.

 

I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing.  There's a lot of support infrastructure needed to have a dense urban environment downtown and right now it's not at the optimum level.

A longer time horizon also reduces the likelihood that it all looks the same and seeks to provide the needs of one moment.