December 1, 200915 yr ^ Downtown malls simply don't work. A speaker from Simon explained that to a room of prospective interns (including myself) about a year before Simon bought City Center.
December 11, 200915 yr Some more demolition photos from Tuesday. Looks like the mall is maybe 75% gone now... <img src="http://www.columbusunderground.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/city-center-1.jpg"> <img src="http://www.columbusunderground.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/city-center-2.jpg"> <img src="http://www.columbusunderground.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/city-center-3.jpg"> <img src="http://www.columbusunderground.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/city-center-4.jpg"> <img src="http://www.columbusunderground.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/city-center-5.jpg"> <img src="http://www.columbusunderground.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/city-center-6.jpg">
December 16, 200915 yr Are there any plans to save the "knot sculpture" above the City Center name and possibly feature it in Columbus Commons? Maybe as public art. It would be a nice homage to the past, or maybe the city wants to forget about the failure of the mall.
December 16, 200915 yr ^ Downtown malls simply don't work. A speaker from Simon explained that to a room of prospective interns (including myself) about a year before Simon bought City Center. Is that all inclusive? In seattle there are 2-3 malls downtown and they all seem to be working quite well. Is it possibly that downtown malls to draw people downtown don't work? Maybe if you already have people coming downtown, a mall is a nice compliment... but if nobody wants to go downtown, the mall isn't going to bring them alone?
December 16, 200915 yr Is that all inclusive? In seattle there are 2-3 malls downtown and they all seem to be working quite well. Is it possibly that downtown malls to draw people downtown don't work? Maybe if you already have people coming downtown, a mall is a nice compliment... but if nobody wants to go downtown, the mall isn't going to bring them alone? Wasn't City Center initially successful until the suburbs torpedoed it with Tuttle, Easton, and Polaris? I think metro Columbus just overdeveloped its retail in the peripheral parts of the city and City Center was unable to draw people away from newer malls. I agree that it is possible for downtown malls to be successful, as they are in Toronto and San Francisco. There just has to be a reason why people would chose the downtown mall over the suburban malls... presumably long after the newness wears off.
December 17, 200915 yr ^ Downtown malls simply don't work. A speaker from Simon explained that to a room of prospective interns (including myself) about a year before Simon bought City Center. Is that all inclusive? In seattle there are 2-3 malls downtown and they all seem to be working quite well. Is it possibly that downtown malls to draw people downtown don't work? Maybe if you already have people coming downtown, a mall is a nice compliment... but if nobody wants to go downtown, the mall isn't going to bring them alone? He didn't elaborate, but I imagine that they were aware of exceptions such as the situation you state.
December 17, 200915 yr Yeah, I don't think any development is going to be sustainable for the long term when "newer, shinier" competing developments are built down the road. It's cannibalistic. We've seen this not only with our large shopping malls, but to a smaller extent with big box stores and strip malls along specific retail corridors. Sadly, I don't think developers really care about this sort of thing. They get in, they make their money, then they move on and leave a trail of blight in their wake. Tuttle Mall opened in 1997. It's middle aged in 2009. It will be torn down within the next 15 years. Possibly 10.
December 17, 200915 yr Wasn't City Center initially successful until the suburbs torpedoed it with Tuttle, Easton, and Polaris? I think metro Columbus just overdeveloped its retail in the peripheral parts of the city and City Center was unable to draw people away from newer malls. I agree that it is possible for downtown malls to be successful, as they are in Toronto and San Francisco. There just has to be a reason why people would chose the downtown mall over the suburban malls... presumably long after the newness wears off. Some suburban malls are good at stealing stores by offering free rent to the anchors that draw people from the whole region. They also offer free parking. Patrons pay for it, just much more indirectly. I think malls work much better downtown when you have an excellent public transit system.
December 18, 200915 yr Wasn't City Center initially successful until the suburbs torpedoed it with Tuttle, Easton, and Polaris? I think metro Columbus just overdeveloped its retail in the peripheral parts of the city and City Center was unable to draw people away from newer malls. Actually, to be technical, Polaris Easton and Tuttle are all in the city of Columbus. Now the outward growth ( of much of the population) into the suburbs has helped fuel a larger customer base for these developments (easton, etc). However, Columbus is actually the city with jurisdiction over the development was Columbus. Second, I agree with the comment above that malls can work in a downtown with a already successful retail sector (Seattle, Toronto, San Francisco, some others.) If a city is trying to lure retail development downtown with a mall (Columbus) it doesn't work so well.
December 18, 200915 yr No, it is technically in Columbus. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
December 18, 200915 yr Really? I thought Tuttle was either in Hilliard or Dublin. Ya Columbus is kind of genius isn't it. There's a perception that something is "suburban, nice, safe" and the area gets a connected identity with a nearby prosperous suburb, but it's really the city collecting the taxes. In the case of Tuttle, everything around the mall is basically Dublin or Hilliard. However, the portion of land with the actual mall, most of the retail, and a lot of offices is in the city. The city was able to win out on annexing the areas with the heart of the development.
December 20, 200915 yr Really? I thought Tuttle was either in Hilliard or Dublin. Ya Columbus is kind of genius isn't it. There's a perception that something is "suburban, nice, safe" and the area gets a connected identity with a nearby prosperous suburb, but it's really the city collecting the taxes. In the case of Tuttle, everything around the mall is basically Dublin or Hilliard. However, the portion of land with the actual mall, most of the retail, and a lot of offices is in the city. The city was able to win out on annexing the areas with the heart of the development. Eh, somewhat. The sprawling areas of the "city", yes they did benefit. Virtually none of the revenue generated from such developments finds its way into revitalization efforts in the mostly depressed urban core off of High St. There's only been plenty of talk, like with the South Linden Traffic Calming, but those bumpouts and narrowings and roundabouts are nowhere to be seen. More recently, the city's mobility division pissed off businesses and cyclists in the Hilltop neighborhood Highland West by wanting to remove parking and push cyclists off to the edge of the road leaving no one happy. That actually has more to do with the CC development than you would think. The chance of the city entrusting this plan to some consultants that are self proclaimed experts, yet who don't know good urbanism, is rather high. In fact, that's why I'm weary, since even the basic rendering shows no understanding of using surrounding buildings to impart energy to the park. Hopefully, myself and others can get through to the city before some very elementary errors are committed.
December 24, 200915 yr More City Center Mall demolition pics from http://www.downtowncolumbus.com/progress/columbus-commons-demolition-december
December 28, 200915 yr Some new photo updates from earlier today (below). A lot of the southside grounds have been cleared and leveled off, while the north end of the mall continues to be dismantled. <img src="http://www.columbusunderground.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/cc1.jpg"> <img src="http://www.columbusunderground.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/cc2.jpg"> <img src="http://www.columbusunderground.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/cc3.jpg"> <img src="http://www.columbusunderground.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/cc4.jpg"> <img src="http://www.columbusunderground.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/cc5.jpg"> <img src="http://www.columbusunderground.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/cc6.jpg"> <img src="http://www.columbusunderground.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/cc7.jpg"> <img src="http://www.columbusunderground.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/cc8.jpg"> <img src="http://www.columbusunderground.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/cc9.jpg"> <img src="http://www.columbusunderground.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/cc10.jpg">
January 3, 201015 yr It's a brand new year and the City Center Mall demolition continues. It looks like it's about at the halfway point now. As Walker Evans pointed out, most of the southern area has been cleared off with the northern area continuing to be dismantled. There's been very little impact on the High Street side across from the Lazarus Building up to now. However, it should only be a couple of weeks before this section goes too. Here is a photo of the High Street section where Town Street ends and the southern areas that have been/are being demolished. And I also agree with tampaguy's idea about saving the City Center "knot sculpture" logo for some future use.
January 28, 201015 yr More demolition pics from City Center Demolition Gallery - January 2010: View from Rich Street Everything above ground goes away. But the underground parking garage will stay. And the garage has remained in operation during the demolition process! Here is the underground garage's entrance from Third Street. Here is a side view of the underground parking garage as seen from the Rich Street Parking Garage. Closer view of the mall's demolition, same angle as above.
January 28, 201015 yr Is it just me or does it seem like there's an unusually large number of firms involved in the project?
January 28, 201015 yr Is it just me or does it seem like there's an unusually large number of firms involved in the project? Not trying to be a smart a--, but can you elaborate on what you mean by "an unusually large number of firms"? (If I was trying to a be a smart a--, I'd say it was just you!) :wink:
February 16, 201015 yr Interesting article about how the materials in the City Center Mall are recycled after its demolition. I figured the steel, copper and concrete might be reused. But I didn't know the hydraulic oil from the mall's elevators could be reused (its being used as fuel in the boiler of the demolition company's headquarters). Even the almost 18,000 fluorescent light bulbs from the mall went to a recycler who captured the gas inside. Recycling a mall: Pieces and parts of City Center are crushed, melted or otherwise rendered for new uses Graphic of materials recycled
February 17, 201015 yr Couple more articles from the Dispatch about the City Center Mall and the Columbus Commons Park that will replace it: Columbus Commons a new take on old idea: City wanted similar project in 1977, got City Center instead Cities pin hopes on parks: Downtown green spaces can have drawing power; challenge is to see projects through to completion - The second article compared the Columbus Commons Park with Campus Martius Park in Detroit, Discovery Green in Houston and the recently completed Citygarden in St. Louis.
March 1, 201015 yr ^Everyone of those other greenspaces mentioned in that article were designed well with a lot of different features interplaying with one another. Columbus' plan just looks a great, big, giant, suburban, lawn. You're not the only who thinks so. From a recent Dispatch letter to the editor... Downtown park should offer new, exciting design Ten … hut! I'm going to the park. Columbus Commons has all the charm of a military parade ground.
March 1, 201015 yr Yeah, the updated rendering looks unchanged. What about revamping some current retail space to interact with the park via a patio? Cost could obviously be a factor and I myself have not eaten at the restaurants on the northside which face State St (Isabella's and San Francisco) to know if they abut the wall facing the park to the south. Still, one would hope something could be done to promote after 5 activity right off the bat. The letter raises good points including some we've mentioned earlier. Along with the chessboard tables I think the stand-alone food court/restaurant space (and I highly suggest they have a bar and stay open late) is a great idea since we're otherwise not going to have any establishment anchor and interact with the park. Place some of those chess tables near the patio area so that diners/imbibers can watch a match or two if they'd like. The city made a point of including a restaurant in the design of the Scioto Mile, so I don't know why they wouldn't want to do that here. As an aside, I just find it funny that someone so hung up on aesthetics lives in Galloway.
March 3, 201015 yr There's not much left of the City Center Mall. Here are some photos of the site taken from the Rich Street Parking Garage. The photos pan from High Street to Third Street. The last remaining section of the mall faces High Street. That demolition is now beginning. Below is a photo of that High Street section being taken down next to the Fifth Third Building. MORE PHOTOS: http://www.downtowncolumbus.com/progress/columbus-commons
March 4, 201015 yr Interesting commentary on the City Center Mall demolition from the host of the WOSU public affairs program "Columbus: On The Record". In his blog post he compares what Columbus is doing with what Worcester, Massachusetts did with their failed downtown mall. Or rather, what Worcester did not do with their mall. Below is an excerpt from his WOSU blog. City Center Demo Prevented Decades of Pain If you look at the experiences of other cities- especially small and mid-sized cities – Columbus is doing the right thing. You can debate whether it was wise to build the mall in the first place. You can debate whether government incorrectly gave tax breaks to competing suburban malls. But you can’t debate death. City Center was dead and the best thing to do is bury it. Take the experience of my hometown, Worcester, Massachusetts. In spirit of early 1970’s urban renewal city and business leaders built a beautiful mall, The Worcester Center Galleria, and a huge above ground parking garage in the heart of downtown - across the common from City Hall. FULL BLOG POST: http://www.wosu.org/blogs/cotr/?p=669
March 4, 201015 yr I saw that earlier and when I visited Worcester we took an exit near here to visit the art museum and this thing is so big and ugly you can't miss it. The rest of downtown is really quite nice and I wish we had more time to check it out. While they missed their chance to transform that space, Worcester has plenty more intact than we do to work with and they don't have a typical square grid resulting in intersections like the one above.
March 19, 201015 yr Nana-Nah-Nah... Nana-Nah-Nah... Hey Hey Hey... <img src="http://www.columbusunderground.com/archives/cc-gone-1.jpg"> <img src="http://www.columbusunderground.com/archives/cc-gone-2.jpg">
March 19, 201015 yr Amazing! "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
March 19, 201015 yr I was just walking past the site yesterday, and it doesn't really seem that the park will be offensively oversized, especially if the planned buildings go up around the perimeter. As long as no one got in your way, it really only took less than five minutes to walk all the way across the mall even though you couldn't walk in a straight line for very long.
March 21, 201015 yr Couple more photos from today... pretty much 100% gone: <img src="http://www.columbusunderground.com/archives/construction4.jpg"> <img src="http://www.columbusunderground.com/archives/construction5.jpg"> <img src="http://www.columbusunderground.com/archives/construction12.jpg">
March 24, 201015 yr My folks and I were trying to figure out what the area with the white cover and blue stripes is going to be. I was thinking the ice rink.
March 24, 201015 yr My folks and I were trying to figure out what the area with the white cover and blue stripes is going to be. I was thinking the ice rink. An ice rink would be great. But this was never in the Columbus Commons plans. Since the area is located over the underground parking garage, my guess is they are doing some repair work to the garage's roof. FYI, there's a brief video of the now cleared site at City Center Mall - Demolition Complete
May 25, 201015 yr COMMONS COMMENCES Mike Harden commentary: Concrete changes appear in initial work on park where City Center stood Panoramic view of the construction at Columbus Commons park
June 3, 201015 yr Green efforts begin to transform former City Center site Officials said nearly 89 million pounds of materials from the demolition effort have been recycled. By GARTH BISHOP, COLUMBUS LOCAL NEWS Published: Sunday, May 30, 2010 - 11:02 AM EDT It doesn't look like much now, but workers are laying the foundations -- literally -- for the mixed-use development that will become Columbus Commons. It's being constructed at the former site of the City Center Mall in downtown Columbus. The mall was purchased by the city, closed and knocked down and cleared away to make way for the new project. "We began demolition of the mall in October of 2009," said Guy Worley, CEO of project developer Capitol South as well as the Columbus Downtown Development Corporation. "Now, the mall has been completely removed." When completed, Columbus Commons will include retail space, restaurants, residential units and office space. But the first element to be completed is the nine-acre park at its center. Workers are about halfway finished building a concrete transfer slab where the mall's aboveground portions once stood, in order to protect an underground parking garage. "That will continue until this summer, and then we'll start building the park as soon as the slab is finished," said Worley. Elements of the park will begin to appear in late summer and early fall, Worley said. After seasonal plantings in early spring, the park should open by the end of April 2011. Full article: http://www.columbuslocalnews.com/articles/2010/05/30/multiple_papers/news/beallcommo_20100528_0505pm_2.txt
July 17, 201014 yr Some updated Columbus Commons Park renderings from Downtown Columbus.com. Slightly updated visually, but unchanged programmatically from their previously published renderings. The two updates I can see in these new renderings are: (1) More detail of the plantings in the flower beds that line the park's main lawn, and (2) a brick walkway that follows the previous Town Street path though the site with fountains at both ends of the walkway and an entrance feature at the High Street end of the walkway. SITE PLAN OF THE PARK WITHOUT THE FUTURE BUILDINGS SHOWN (North is to the left in this site plan. Starting on the left and moving clockwise, the surrounding streets are State Street, Third Street, Rich Street and High Street. A section of Town Street still connects to Third Street at the top of the rendering. The previously removed portion of Town Street follows the brick walkway to High Street at the bottom of the rendering.) SITE PLAN OF THE PARK WITH FOUR FUTURE BUILDINGS SHOWN (FINAL BUILD-OUT) AERIAL VIEW OF THE PARK WITHOUT ANY FUTURE BUILDINGS SHOWN (View looks over the Rich Street Parking Garage northwest toward High Street) GROUND VIEW UNDER THE TREE CLUSTER NEXT TO RICH STREET LOOKING NORTH TOWARD THE MAIN LAWN AND AMPITHEATRE STAGE GROUND VIEW OF THE FLOWER BEDS AND WALKWAYS THAT LINE THE MAIN LAWN GROUND VIEW OF THE FUTURE BUILDING SITES ALONG HIGH STREET (That girl in the pink outfit sure does like walking about the site.) :wink: THE NEW BRICK ENTRANCE FEATURE AND FOUNTAIN ALONG HIGH STREET THE NEW BRICK WALKWAY ON THE SITE THAT FOLLOWS THE PREVIOUS PATH OF TOWN STREET
July 28, 201014 yr Since when was a carousel part of the "wish list" for the park? I've never heard one mention of this before today. Now, if they were thinking about bringing back that big ferris wheel that was on State Street during the downtown winterfest a few years ago, that could be something great. Fountain, carousel part of Columbus Commons plan Updated: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 7:25 PM By Marla Matzer Rose THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH A fountain and carousel will be part of the Columbus Commons park being built Downtown, on the site that formerly was home to Columbus City Center mall. The two features had been on a wish list for the project and now are being added -- if the additions indeed come to pass. Representatives of the Capitol South Community Urban Redevelopment Corp. presented updated plans for the 6-acre park to the Downtown Commission this morning. Mark Corna, president of the Corna-Kokosing construction firm, said the 24-foot-diameter carousel will be funded by cost savings on the project. Full article: http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/business/stories/2010/07/27/columbus-commons-park-carousel-fountain.html?sid=101
August 10, 201014 yr The Other Paper is really tabloid-type journalism. But from time to time, they can be very entertaining. This is one of those times... Give it a whirl The surprise carousel that threatened to derail Columbus Commons By Lyndsey Teter, The Other Paper Published: Thursday, August 5, 2010 - 11:38 AM EDT Franklin County Commissioner John O’Grady was on vacation schlepping one of his four children on and off a merry-go-round at Pier Park in Panama City Beach, Florida when he got word that Capital South Urban Redevelopment Corp. was seeking approval to drop $325,000 on a carousel for the spiffy new Columbus Commons park, set to rise from the ashes of City Center next spring. Knowing the county was putting $3 million toward the park’s creation, O’Grady balked. “Public funds need to be spent appropriately,” O’Grady said. A merry-go-round apparently didn’t meet those criteria. While O’Grady was fuming in Florida, his on-duty colleagues here in Ohio, commissioners Marilyn Brown and Paula Brooks, fired off a hasty press release that said the county wouldn’t process the $3 million grant until this carousel thing was properly explained to them. To hear proponents talk about it, there hasn’t been a day go by that Columbus hasn’t pined for a carousel. For its part, Cap South—the park’s developer—has indicated that plans for a Columbus Commons carousel have been on the table since at least last fall. At a press conference to announce the demolition of City Center, no mention was made of the attraction, and no spinning horses had been sketched into conceptual drawings or videos presented to the public thus far, but Capitol South COO Amy Taylor said it’s always been on the wish list, forwarding a PowerPoint presentation that included the word “carousel”—along with a children’s reading room, and some open-air programming such as ice sculptures, flag football and cornhole competitions—as evidence. Full article: http://www.theotherpaper.com/articles/2010/08/05/cover_story/doc4c5ad4c67c123112687382.txt
August 10, 201014 yr What are those four buildings going to be used for? Are we talking first floor retail!? I sure hope so.
August 10, 201014 yr I don't think that the City/Cap South/CDDC has absolutely spelled out the uses yet. Those four buildings are part of the "market-driven" phase. So nobody can 100% guarantee that those buildings will even be built! But assuming that they will be built, ground floor retail is pretty likely. The upper stories would probably be offices and/or residential (depending on what makes market sense). Think of it as a version of the Arena District.
August 13, 201014 yr Public money won't pay for Downtown park's carousel Thursday, August 12, 2010 By Barbara Carmen THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH A $1.5 million check for a new Downtown park is on the way, Franklin County commissioners said yesterday, after checking the project's budget to make sure taxpayer money won't be buying the park's merry-go-round. "I'm all for a carousel," said Commissioner John O'Grady. But not, he said, from the county's public funds. Commissioners promised $3 million for a permanent 6-acre park at Columbus Commons. The park is to be ringed by offices, housing and shops on the site that was formerly Columbus City Center Mall. Construction on the 9-acre site will be finished by December. Landscaping and the grand opening will follow in spring. Full article: http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2010/08/12/copy/public-money-wont-pay-for-parks-carousel.html?adsec=politics&sid=101
September 8, 201014 yr There's been alot of concrete pouring this summer on the former City Center Mall / future Columbus Commons site. Although its probably very necessary for the underground parking garage, it doesn't make for very exciting photos. Below is a current photo of the site. Here's the monthly construction gallery at DowntownColumbus.com: April 2010: Park Construction Begins May 2010: Paving the Way June 2010: Pouring Fab Slabs July 2010: On With the Pour August 2010: Final Foundation
September 8, 201014 yr The live webcam shows daily progress. I think I see dirt being spread!!! http://www.downtowncolumbus.com/progress/columbus-commons
September 8, 201014 yr The live webcam shows daily progress. I think I see dirt being spread!!! http://www.downtowncolumbus.com/progress/columbus-commons It sure looks like it.
September 9, 201014 yr I love this park plan. Johio, forgive my ignorance, but how does this differ from a European design? Also, wouldn't it be cool to have an area for ice skating in the winter?
September 10, 201014 yr One of the biggest aesthetic elements of Schiller and Goodale are their large mature trees. It sounds like Commons doesn't have the physical capacity to support large trees. Personally, I hope that the park isn't too "successful" because I don't want anyone to be chaining themselves to bulldozers when it comes time to fill in park space with infill in another 5-10-15 years. If it's a semi-used grass lawn, then I think that's an ok temporary use of the space for the short term.
September 17, 201014 yr According to the DowntownColumbus.com website, "The soil for the Grand Lawn is now being placed, with sod to be installed beginning in October" and "Work continues to install precast curbs for the walks and planters that will be home to 22,000 flowers." Columbus Commons Construction Gallery - September 2010
October 12, 201014 yr yea...sod is being laid...just on the webcam.... http://www.downtowncolumbus.com/progress/columbus-commons/web-cam
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