resturants and bars right up next to a park?  I didn't see the plans for restaurants and bars, but maybe they're there; however, the plans looked more like a corporate park than a Spanish plaza, to me.  Referencing european cities seems to be an analogy that doesn't fit.  European cities you're referencing would have large amounts of tourists, be located within a dense residential and commerical environment, and usually be centered around buildings that people come to see, not buildings that people merely go to work in.

 

I agree it's a missed opportunity. You're taking the very center of downtown and turning it into largely greenspace? I was under the impression we were trying to become a more dense city.  Maybe we thought the park a couple blocks away on the riverfront wasn't enough or the park by the arena.  Ever see a ton of people at those? Not really, unless there's an event going on.  Granted this one would have more people just because it's enclosed by some populated buildings, but I doubt it would be a draw on any consistent basis.  It doesn't look unique at all. It looks like some grass in the middle of some buildings.

 

We had a chance to use a lot of space downtown to build something that would draw people downtown.. instead we thought some grass and trees would be the answer.

 

I think maybe they hope someday downtown will just be one big park. Seems to be the answer every time we want to `revitalize` an area... Just build another park!

We had a chance to use a lot of space downtown to build something that would draw people downtown.. instead we thought some grass and trees would be the answer.

 

I think maybe they hope someday downtown will just be one big park. Seems to be the answer every time we want to `revitalize` an area... Just build another park!

 

The underground garages cannot support structures over much of the site, which is a large factor in how the plan came together.

 

 

I just keep wondering if they should have waited until November to see if Issue 3 passes. About the only good reuse of the mall structure would be a casino (large infrustrature, wide aisles, no windows, plentiful parking, confusing to navigate, etc, etc).

The graphics are thankfully nothing more than a rendering that was whipped up ASAP.

 

How can actually say that people wouldn't go to a park surrounded by destinations like bars, restaurants, cafes, stores? You ever been down 4th St after 5:00 on a Sunday afternoon? There's one, count em, one restaurant/bar that is jam packed every time I go by while the rest of 4th is a ghost town. If you have just a handful of quality establishments fronting the park you will have a busy place right in the middle of Downtown not just during the day, but at night. Don't get hung up on the renderings. I already contacted CDDC to tell them how important it is for them to do what I'm suggesting. If you agree and/or have other ideas go ahead and tell them yourself.

I just keep wondering if they should have waited until November to see if Issue 3 passes. About the only good reuse of the mall structure would be a casino (large infrustrature, wide aisles, no windows, plentiful parking, confusing to navigate, etc, etc).

 

You're not the only one to think that, ink.  Some local people suggested that the CCM could be reused as a casino.  However, the idea never gained any traction.  I think the idea of a casino sitting in the middle of the central business district and one block away from the Statehouse was never going to be popular with local and state politicos.

That's a fair criticism, Civvik. Columbus did debate the merits of renovating a 20-year old mall vs. starting clean. Obviously, the "starting clean" argument won. The City Center Mall was always rather unloved, even when it was successful. Mostly because of its suburban bunker-like exterior and its "cut off from the downtown" interior. So the CCM generated as much warm feelings as a typical suburban mall did. With is to say - not much.

 

But still, the idea of demolishing a 20-year old multi-million structure did strike many as wasteful. So there were efforts to examine if the CCM could be renovated for other uses. Maybe with a partial demolition. What ultimately nixed any CCM renovation concept was the very suburban and single-use nature of the mall's design. Plus, the expense of a renovation with no guarantee that it would be "less suburban". Plus, the current glut of downtown office space and the current economy.

 

Plus, the neighboring RiverSouth neighborhood development, the renovation of the Lazarus Building and other downtown projects led the City and the lease holder Capitol South to look at reimagining the CCM site as something that would be more urban and fit better with these new developments. I'm leaving out much of the details of this story - but that's the cliff notes version. Basically, I think the City & Capitol South felt they could do something better and more urban on the CCM site by starting over and then better integrating the new development into the surrounding city blocks.

 

Thanks for the summary. I do remember them talking about this in the 90's. I even went to this mall exclusively my freshman year, then to Easton exclusively after that. I hammered my own little nail into THAT coffin.

 

Turning chunks of downtown into "park" is sadly just the market letting something go fallow. Literally. But even THAT isn't so bad if you plan for a decent block structure to emerge from the fallow land whenever the market demands construction. But I don't see that anywhere in this plan. It's just a superblock.

 

 

How would this be a missed opportunity? It's rather simple to build here around a new park. As long as there are plenty of patios from various new businesses fronting the park, it will provide the kind of urban atmosphere that you can only get from a Spanish plaza or Italian piazza. This would be the only counterpart in the entire state of Ohio, likely much of the rest of the country, that would likewise not be cut off by roads and would have restaurants, bars, etc right up against all sides of a public space.

 

I do see what you are thinking about the piazza thing. Two issues with that. One, good streets aren't barriers, they are blood vessels. "The street will block this off" is largely an instinct developed over decades of bladerunner-style 8-lane road projects.

Second, this is Ohio. Our cities don't have the population density to support piazzas, and even if they did, most paved open spaces in Europe are actually quite small! Only the most massive and well-known are more than a city block.

 

This plaza in Barcelona comes to mind when I think of a nice Spanish example:

 

But here is a scaled comparison of the mall site, and this very grand Spanish plaza:

 

The graphics are thankfully nothing more than a rendering that was whipped up ASAP.

 

How can actually say that people wouldn't go to a park surrounded by destinations like bars, restaurants, cafes, stores? You ever been down 4th St after 5:00 on a Sunday afternoon? There's one, count em, one restaurant/bar that is jam packed every time I go by while the rest of 4th is a ghost town. If you have just a handful of quality establishments fronting the park you will have a busy place right in the middle of Downtown not just during the day, but at night. Don't get hung up on the renderings. I already contacted CDDC to tell them how important it is for them to do what I'm suggesting. If you agree and/or have other ideas go ahead and tell them yourself.

 

Fountain Square in Cincy is a great example of that. The foot traffic from the shops gove organizations a huge incentive to plan events in a public space like that as well. Then lots of activity in the park at night lead to extended business hours which is definitely something downtown Columbus could use. I think Columbus Commons has the potential to be even more busy and vibrant than Fountain Square.

The graphics are thankfully nothing more than a rendering that was whipped up ASAP.

 

How can actually say that people wouldn't go to a park surrounded by destinations like bars, restaurants, cafes, stores? You ever been down 4th St after 5:00 on a Sunday afternoon? There's one, count em, one restaurant/bar that is jam packed every time I go by while the rest of 4th is a ghost town. If you have just a handful of quality establishments fronting the park you will have a busy place right in the middle of Downtown not just during the day, but at night. Don't get hung up on the renderings. I already contacted CDDC to tell them how important it is for them to do what I'm suggesting. If you agree and/or have other ideas go ahead and tell them yourself.

 

Fountain Square in Cincy is a great example of that. The foot traffic from the shops gove organizations a huge incentive to plan events in a public space like that as well. Then lots of activity in the park at night lead to extended business hours which is definitely something downtown Columbus could use. I think Columbus Commons has the potential to be even more busy and vibrant than Fountain Square.

The vast majority of Fountain Square's daytime traffic is office workers, with the evening and weekend mix being restaurant patrons and people attending cultural events. It is also directly activated on two sides by the most important streets in downtown Cincinnati. It has been the iconic center of the city for a century and at a mere 200 by 200 feet, Fountain Square is arguably the only true urban plaza for 2.2 million people. Yet even still, it is heavily programmed through 3CDC coordination to keep people actively using the space.

 

Come to think of it, there are only two "shops" that face the square at all...Macy's and the greeting card store inside the Westin.

 

Anyhow, I'm not saying that this thing couldn't feel like Fountain Square, or any square, but it's not the same set of circumstances AT ALL. I really don't mean to be pissing on anyone's ideas, either. In fact, if you wanted to make this thing act anything like Fountain Square in Cincinnati, you would want to cut the site into about four blocks, and put a 200x200-ish plaza right up onto High Street at the southwest corner of the site. And surround it with 30 story buildings. You would also want to control the future of the western, southern and southwestern blocks adjacent, so they could develop and activate the site as well.

 

Population density is a non-factor here and in any case there are enough people to support it. The site is large, but it's a park. I'm looking at it to function as that while the perimeter replicates a plaza with establishments right up against the public space. Aside from making the central portion attractive (chess tables, fountains, etc,) the biggest concern should be to line the park on as many sides as possible with destinations that attract after 5 foot traffic. 30 story buildings don't instantly result in street level activity, just look at Miranova and Waterford, and that picture of Barcelona that you posted. The main issue here is getting quality establishments to set up shop. Filling them up with chains a la the Arena District, is not the way to go. The city needs to update it's plans for the park and ensure that infill alongside the park is one of the top priorities. Even if the park portion itself turns out to be ho-hum or sub-par, at least there would be cafes, restaurants, bars, and hopefully a bit of good retail abutting it and attracting visitors. People who go to Dirty Frank's, that spot on 4th I mentioned which is always packed til the wee hours, don't care that it's in the middle of a low-density dead zone Downtown and right next to a mini one-way highway. The success hinges on both providing spaces along the park for places like this and filling them in with places worth going out of your way for.

I drove this area the other day. It really doesn't seem to be anything like Fountain Square. It seems like it will feel more like Gov't Plaza in Toledo. I think it can be successful but it's going to take some serious work on the part of the city with programming and picking the right kind of development. A couple of glass box restaurants (like Via Vite) would be good.

The graphics are thankfully nothing more than a rendering that was whipped up ASAP.

 

How can actually say that people wouldn't go to a park surrounded by destinations like bars, restaurants, cafes, stores? You ever been down 4th St after 5:00 on a Sunday afternoon? There's one, count em, one restaurant/bar that is jam packed every time I go by while the rest of 4th is a ghost town. If you have just a handful of quality establishments fronting the park you will have a busy place right in the middle of Downtown not just during the day, but at night. Don't get hung up on the renderings. I already contacted CDDC to tell them how important it is for them to do what I'm suggesting. If you agree and/or have other ideas go ahead and tell them yourself.

 

Fountain Square in Cincy is a great example of that. The foot traffic from the shops gove organizations a huge incentive to plan events in a public space like that as well. Then lots of activity in the park at night lead to extended business hours which is definitely something downtown Columbus could use. I think Columbus Commons has the potential to be even more busy and vibrant than Fountain Square.

The vast majority of Fountain Square's daytime traffic is office workers, with the evening and weekend mix being restaurant patrons and people attending cultural events. It is also directly activated on two sides by the most important streets in downtown Cincinnati. It has been the iconic center of the city for a century and at a mere 200 by 200 feet, Fountain Square is arguably the only true urban plaza for 2.2 million people. Yet even still, it is heavily programmed through 3CDC coordination to keep people actively using the space.

 

Come to think of it, there are only two "shops" that face the square at all...Macy's and the greeting card store inside the Westin.

 

Anyhow, I'm not saying that this thing couldn't feel like Fountain Square, or any square, but it's not the same set of circumstances AT ALL. I really don't mean to be pissing on anyone's ideas, either. In fact, if you wanted to make this thing act anything like Fountain Square in Cincinnati, you would want to cut the site into about four blocks, and put a 200x200-ish plaza right up onto High Street at the southwest corner of the site. And surround it with 30 story buildings. You would also want to control the future of the western, southern and southwestern blocks adjacent, so they could develop and activate the site as well.

 

 

I was only comparing them in terms of traffic. They're both public spaces that people need an excuse to go to. I'm not sure how the fact that Fountain Square has existed for a century is a basis for any argument. The city has gone through tons of economic cycles and cultural attitudes concerning downtown, since then. Also, last time I checked, a 5/3rd bank, Potbelly, Via Vite, Rock Bottom, Macy's, Jos. A. Bank, and Graeters faced Fountain Square but I haven't been there in a while. In any case, it's kind of a petty thing to argue about. All I'm saying is that I think this is going to give people a long overdue reason to go downtown for the fun of it. I

've talked to a few people about the plans for a park and they thought it sounded lame but people also thought Fountain Square renovation was a huge waste of money but it turned out to be a success.

Population density is a non-factor here and in any case there are enough people to support it. The site is large, but it's a park. I'm looking at it to function as that while the perimeter replicates a plaza with establishments right up against the public space. Aside from making the central portion attractive (chess tables, fountains, etc,) the biggest concern should be to line the park on as many sides as possible with destinations that attract after 5 foot traffic. 30 story buildings don't instantly result in street level activity, just look at Miranova and Waterford, and that picture of Barcelona that you posted. The main issue here is getting quality establishments to set up shop. Filling them up with chains a la the Arena District, is not the way to go. The city needs to update it's plans for the park and ensure that infill alongside the park is one of the top priorities. Even if the park portion itself turns out to be ho-hum or sub-par, at least there would be cafes, restaurants, bars, and hopefully a bit of good retail abutting it and attracting visitors. People who go to Dirty Frank's, that spot on 4th I mentioned which is always packed til the wee hours, don't care that it's in the middle of a low-density dead zone Downtown and right next to a mini one-way highway. The success hinges on both providing spaces along the park for places like this and filling them in with places worth going out of your way for.

 

Population density is always a factor. Barcelona's is 40,000 people per square mile. Columbus's is 3,400. That means you have ten times as many people in a given area looking for something to do. You can fill up big spaces in America, but you can rarely fill them up all the time, or even some of the time.

 

Transit is also probably required. But I'm not even going to go there.

 

Here is the first thing that came to mind when I saw this site. (Sorry, I did this in 10 minutes.) This opens up Town Street (I would think that would be critical) and activates a plaza in a lot of different ways. I guess it's kind of what you'd get in Fountain Square, now that I think about it. Funny how it's almost the same as the previous version of the actual plan. :

 

I think the key is to hold major events there, such as concerts. Businesses in the Arena District for instance thrive from nearby convention center activity and right now they're preparing for Hockey season. I don't think the Arena District's success has much to do with population density. There's alot of large nodes in Columbus that draw people in from all over.

As long as it doesn't turn in Cbus's version of Washington Park.

Downtown park to get a big boost

Tuesday,  October 13, 2009 - 3:07 AM

By Marla Matzer Rose

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

Columbus Commons, the Downtown park that will take the place of Columbus City Center, is about to receive a $2 million assist from Franklin County Metro Parks.  Metro Parks is set to approve the investment this afternoon.  It will represent about 10 percent of the park's projected cost.  Demolition of City Center has begun, with construction of the park expected to be completed in December 2010.  The project is being overseen by the nonprofit Capitol South Community Urban Redevelopment Corp. on behalf of the city.

 

With the $2 million addition, $17 million in funding will have been secured for the estimated $20 million project to demolish City Center and build the park.  The $15 million is coming from Capitol South's funding sources, which include parking and rent revenue on the City Center parking garage and the former Lazarus building across High Street.  Capitol South CEO Guy Worley said the organization continues to "seek other partners" to fund the project and programming in the park once it is open.  In August, it was announced that the Columbus Association for the Performing Arts will handle programming for the park starting in summer 2011.

 

Full story at http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/business/stories/2009/10/13/colcommons_metroparks.ART_ART_10-13-09_A10_AOFBSVA.html?sid=101

All Columbus needs after this park is complete is some form of transportation to link all the neighborhoods together along High Street... I wonder what could achieve that? ;)

As long as it doesn't turn in Cbus's version of Washington Park.

 

Lol. The only thing I hated about Washington Park were the bums. It became such a depressing, dreary place. I hate being bothered by people who want to tell me their life story just to get to the bottom line which is that they want change.

 

I wonder though - how do you keep a park like this from being too big for its own good? This park is going to be pretty massive and when you try to create successful public spaces you have to realize that what people find interesting is watching other nearby people. The park needs a lot of actors and spectators. They need events. They need musicians. They need food. They need fountains. Outdoor grills would actually be pretty cool. They need to foster social interaction by centralizing activities in different areas of the park. I hope it doesn't have too much boring grassy open space where there's no trees or other enjoyable features. There isn't much you can do with an open field unless you form a football game or something like that. It'll probably just give people an excuse to let their friggin dogs run loose without leashes like at Goodale. (dolts).

 

All Columbus needs after this park is complete is some form of transportation to link all the neighborhoods together along High Street... I wonder what could achieve that? ;)

 

I don't want the short north to ever have a streetcar running through it. A lot of business owners on High agree. The short north should be at a point where it recieves the least amount of funding compared to other city neighborhoods. It seems like people will stop at nothing to try and see every positive, creative investment occur there - as if the short north isn't vulnerable to the law of diminishing returns. The neighborhood is already mostly tapped out. It seems like downtown would provide a much better ROI than would connecting OSU to downtown. Sh!t, in the morning I can walk to High and catch a bus every 10-15 minutes. Don't people realize how fantastic that is? Seriously. It usually comes within 5 minutes of me standing there. If we need the novelty of something running on a fixed route to maintain a strong relationship between OSU-SN-Downtown then something is seriously wrong with our culture. You know how they say we build ugly, inefficient, cheap subdivisions, use outdated design standards from manuals, commute ridiculously long distances etc. because we're just so used to it? Well, we're also used to thinking N. High St. is the end all-be all neighborhood in Center City Columbus. Screw that. It's about time that it meets its demise and gains some true character! (P.S. The Jackson on High looks like a train wreck.)

The short north is hardly tapped out...there are still a significant number of parking lots and low density buildings on high street that could be redeveloped.  A streetcar/light rail system will solidify the short north even more and help to create a true "urban" link between OSU and downtown. 

 

As far as short north business owners not supporting this, I sat in a city council streetcar meeting last year where a SN business owner submitted a letter of support on behalf of the majority of small business owners there.  Not everyone will be happy with any infrastructure project, but think about all those SN business owners whole will have exposure to all the commuters coming into the SN from points north who would usually bypass it on 71.  The only negative affect may be the removal of a few parallel parking spots, that remains to be seen.

True urban link? There's already great bus service. Why can't people just learn to read a bus schedule?

 

I foresee development leveling off but that's my opinion. In the last decade, real estate value has skyrocketed there - so there's a lot of confidence in the area. I don't think it'll last. I personally don't want to see any more hideous monster projects like Jackson on High. The Circus bar/club's scale evokes a sigh of relief. There's nothing wrong with 1-3 story buildings and if building scale really reflected market demand, the block south of the Campus Gateway probably wouldn't still look like East Detroit. I don't mind the few parking lots that still exist farther south in the Short. Most of them have fences and other structures up against the sidewalk to give the illusion of continuity. I give them credit for caring and being creative. The parking lots function more like public spaces anyway. Whether they're holding art events or 20 somethings are drunk, hanging out eating pizza and watching Dawn of the Dead being projected on the brick facade next to a parking lot. I don't look at them as being dead spaces.

 

"Solidify the short north even more" would be nice but we have other truely deteriorating neighborhoods that could use a catalyst much more (including downtown). Like I said, I personally think they would provide a greater ROI than The Short North. If you want to continue this, lets take it to a more appropriate thread.

If there's going to be a streetcar to make it easier to access CC, then why not an east-west route? That makes it easy to park along the line Downtown (and outside where you wouldn't have to pay for a meter) and spur development in Franklinton (W Broad & Sullivant) and King-Lincoln (Long & Mt Vernon) to multiply the improvements that are occurring in both. Downtown would still see development, albeit east-west and off of High, which is a good thing. It's about time one of the largest cities in the country had more than one serious, urban commercial street. And here's a streetcar map I slapped together where the park would be easily accessible by the totally hypothetical streetcar (I was greedy with the ideal length of the routes). We absolutely, desperately need to focus on totally filling in a handful of streets downtown. Since the city thought I didn't know what I was talking about (they now have isolated condo buildings randomly dispersed all over Downtown) it would be nice to see a streetcar which would essentially do what I suggested and that is to concentrate development in a smaller area. It took them a few years to get on the ball, but with Gay St, Front St, and now this park, it looks like they've come around. Still, we've got a ways to go and after having visited Lowell, MA it's amazing to see what an intact, larger-sized downtown looks like and the effects of almost no parking lots.

 

As an aside, the Short North is too popular and as a result "suffers" from a "lack" of parking for cars, but not for bikes and scooters, of which there is plenty if people don't want to circle around forever in their cars. The SN can't meet the demand, so why not bring this "problem" to a couple of bordering up-and-coming neighborhoods that would be glad to have it, including Downtown? There are definitely enough people that  prefer a less polished, less overcrowded commercial street away from there with a handful of options or so for spending the night out. Hal & Al's, Carabar, and Bristol Bar demonstrate that you can attract a crowd to even Parsons (OTE & Merion Village) and E 5th Ave (In Weinland Park of all places) all of which have already opened the way for more quality destinations in these areas. Downtown is not as gritty and doesn't suffer from the image problem of it's neighbors to the west and east. There are also places that attract a crowd mostly north of Broad and the new park, if surrounded by after hours establishments, could certainly bring them further south.

Thanks for reassuring me that I'm not crazy lol

 

I wonder why people insist on a North-South, High St. route. It's like people don't have faith in other parts of town that are less developed or something  :wtf:

Since were still on this topic on this thread...I would love to see a downtown circulator streetcar that makes it way over to OTE and Franklinton with two major downtown terminals, Columbus Commons and the transit terminal at the convention center.  This could connect those neighborhoods with the library, high street, arena district (possibly) several hospitals, grocery stores, art museum, CCAD & CSCC, the CBD & jobs, etc.  IMO, with the north corridor light rail in place, this would be the most appropriate starting point for a streetcar system in Columbus; similar to Portland's streetcar which runs perpendicular to the regional light rail system.  It would be much harder to get this off the ground though as it most likely would have to be locally funded unless the feds loosen their rules.

 

The reason the north corridor is feasible is because it is the most dense corridor in the region, so is most likely to receive federal funding.  And even then with downtown, OSU, and the SN along the route, it is still (according to various members of city council) in need of additional density to make the case stronger.  If we want local rail at all that serves more than commuters, this is our best shot at getting it started.

 

If both are built with Columbus Commons having some streetcar link to the east and west, then the park and the surrounding development I believe would have a shot to become the true urban "center" it was always meant to be.

I lived in Columbus for over a decade, and I can tell you without a doubt in my mind that it will take a monumental cultural shift in that town for people to start seeing busses as real transportation options.  Columbus lacks synergy between all it's developed inner-city areas and in my opinion, some form of rail would do wonders for connecting these areas and pushing the development further. 

Thanks for reassuring me that I'm not crazy lol

 

I wonder why people insist on a North-South, High St. route. It's like people don't have faith in other parts of town that are less developed or something  :wtf:

 

Baby steps.

 

I understand what you're getting at here in terms of revitalizing other neglected parts of town but to me it makes more sense to connect the dots of the city's already premier attraction areas and allowing them to grow to their full potential and then continue to push outward. There are still plenty of areas along High Street that could use some TLC.

 

Those dots you want to connect are already a part of every Columbusite's psychogeographic mindset imo. The only difference is they drive on that route instead of having a fixed streetcar line dictate it. I think that for most people in the metro, Columbus is basically a bunch of dots along High St. with a few more dots off to the left, in the Arena District. It's sad!

 

The thing is - developers will buy properties with just speculation of a streetcar route nearby. We've already seen that in Cincinnati. I think we would be better off focusing on downtown - connecting downtown to the edge of the Short North, Arena District, CCAD, CSCC, German Village, Broad&High, Columbus Commons, Mt. Carmel, things like that. It would give developers the confidence to invest in human scaled residential neighborhoods downtown and fill in the rest of those parking lot gaps.  You cannot convince me that the Short North would provide a more favorable cost/benefit ratio than downtown. The possibilities downtown are endless. Streetcars and human scaled residential/commercial buildings complement each other very well and that imo is what downtown is lacking. Put the resources where you need change the most, I say. Not somewhere that is seeing diminishing returns.

 

I think a streetcar connecting downtown to Franklinton would even be a better investment than running it through the Short North. Lets say for instance you have a streetcar already connecting various dots downtown like this Columbus Commons and then they do a phase going as far as Mt. Carmel, via Broad St.  Mt. Carmel has a huge employment base including young professionals who work there as well as Nursing students. Those people working at that huge employment center (many of which have a lot of buying power) have every reason to live near where they work as it would be on the streetcar line, close to some nice unique restaurants on Broad and only a hop skip and a jump from downtown. In fact, a streetcar going to the west side would reinforce Franklinton as basically an extention of downtown. COSI would be so easy to market to families and with more young professionals in the area it would be safer, which is the highest priority of families. They would also get decent sized back yards. Developers could probably get away with razing a lot of properties and given that Franklinton's architecture isn't as ornate as it is well proportioned, they could build decent buildings relatively cheaply and it would still be considered charming.

 

I swear, N. High St. must put a spell on people or something. People are so in love with it! I feel all alone on a sinking ship.

 

Sorry if I sound like a broken record. I get frustrated because it seems like people want to reinforce the patterns of development in Columbus rather than reinvigorating the city by trying something new.

Columbus would do great with Philadelphia's rail transit system (mirrored).

David,

 

The thing about Columbus is that there's no way you would get the E-W rail line along broad until you demonstrate to the taxpayers that a rail line can be successful in Columbus.  The only place I can see a line being successful right out of the box is N-S along High St.  Once that line is in place and thriving, you can execute phase two to link the city E-W.

I still think the latest design proposal is a travesty.  Who designed it again?

True urban link? There's already great bus service. Why can't people just learn to read a bus schedule?

 

Unless things have changed since I was there (probably have a bit) great bus service is the last thing Columbus has. I believe it was ranked the worst out of 30 major cities in the U.S.  I remember having to walk home from downtown on Sundays because the buses stopped running at 7pm!!!  Great bus service is not something someone who rides the bus often (at least used to) would say about COTA.  So many memories of waiting an hour for a bus or more and then the bus only going kind of where you're going... good luck trying to get out to the suburbs at any time other than the morning or evening commute etc...

 

Columbus public transportation = horrible.  At least that's what it was like in 2003... maybe it's changed -

 

EDIT: It just occurred to me you were talking about OSU <-> Downtown on high street... Yeah, it's better service - about typical of any normal route in most other cities, but it still stopped running on Sunday nights and I still remember it being absolutely crammed most of the time.

Columbus public transportation = horrible.   At least that's what it was like in 2003... maybe it's changed -

 

2003 was probably the low ebb for COTA bus operations.  Scandal plagued management and spotty customer service was rampant then.  Its improved quite a bit since with new management, a new levy and much better route service.  So you could probably upgrade Columbus public transportation to tolerable.  But busses are the low end of the public transportation food chain.  For it to get significantly better, it must include some kind of streetcar/light rail system.

 

I still think the latest design proposal is a travesty.  Who designed it again?

 

Three Columbus firms make up the design/build team for Columbus Commons: construction firm Corna-Kokosing, architects Moody Nolan and landscape architects EDGE Group.

David,

 

The thing about Columbus is that there's no way you would get the E-W rail line along broad until you demonstrate to the taxpayers that a rail line can be successful in Columbus.  The only place I can see a line being successful right out of the box is N-S along High St.  Once that line is in place and thriving, you can execute phase two to link the city E-W.

 

In other words, lets do it the easy way - reinforce the same patterns of development. That's what people have confidence in. It's the easiest thing to sell. It makes me sick lol

 

 

True urban link? There's already great bus service. Why can't people just learn to read a bus schedule?

 

Unless things have changed since I was there (probably have a bit) great bus service is the last thing Columbus has. I believe it was ranked the worst out of 30 major cities in the U.S.  I remember having to walk home from downtown on Sundays because the buses stopped running at 7pm!!!  Great bus service is not something someone who rides the bus often (at least used to) would say about COTA.  So many memories of waiting an hour for a bus or more and then the bus only going kind of where you're going... good luck trying to get out to the suburbs at any time other than the morning or evening commute etc...

 

Columbus public transportation = horrible.  At least that's what it was like in 2003... maybe it's changed -

 

EDIT: It just occurred to me you were talking about OSU <-> Downtown on high street... Yeah, it's better service - about typical of any normal route in most other cities, but it still stopped running on Sunday nights and I still remember it being absolutely crammed most of the time.

 

Yeah, I was talking about High St. I don't find the buses to be too packed on that route. High St. seems to have the best bus service. Only thing I would complain about is weekends but I think they still run every 20-35 minutes during the day. Most other routes, especially in the suburbs, are a nightmare.

David, what's easy about starting local passenger rail from scratch?  To make a change this massive, you have to start with something that have the best chance of working.  Once its proven, then it can be expanded.  If we start an east-west line and it has terrible ridership...there will be no chance of getting federal money for other streetcar/lrt projects. 

 

Again, i agree with you that an east-west line would be fantastic, but we gotta start with something that will work.

 

Back to Columbus Commons, I think as the design of the park is developed further, it will be better to understand the designer's vision.  Its always tough to spit out renderings and not have a chance to discuss the intent behind them, as was the case with this last set of drawings.  I drove by the site today, the mall structure is almost 1/3 gone.  Very cool to watch the demolition.

Unless things have changed since I was there (probably have a bit) great bus service is the last thing Columbus has.

 

Actually, Bill Lhota has done a pretty bang up job of stabilizing the bus system in the last few years. I don't know if I'd say we have a "great" bus system, but it's vastly improved over what it was just five or six years ago. New routes have been added. Ridership is constantly climbing. Budget is in the black. Lhota has made a lot of small fine-tuning changes that have conservatively improved COTA as a whole.

The City Center Mall is going down fast.  Below are a couple of the photo spreads:

 

1) FLICKR PHOTOSTREAM PAGE

 

2) DEMOLITION PAGE AT DOWNTOWNCOLUMBUS.COM

 

Here are some demolition progress photos from www.downtowncolumbus.com.  The exterior views are from around Town & High looking across the former grassy space along High Street.

 

 

 

And one interior view:

Wow, interesting seeing those demo shots.  I'm happy thinking about the future possibilities for this site, but sad thinking a building from my childhood is gone.

It looks like Franklin County might provide the final $3 million for the $20 million estimated by Capitol South to build the Columbus Commons park.  Earlier this month Metro Parks pledged $2 million.  The remaining $15 million is coming from Capitol South's funding sources.

 

County will offer $3M to preserve 6-acre park at City Center

Tuesday,  October 27, 2009 - 4:01 PM

By Barbara Carmen, The Columbus Dispatch

 

Six acres in the middle of Downtown will remain parkland forever under a deal in which Franklin County commissioners would provide the last dollars needed to redevelop the site of the City Center mall.  Franklin County commissioners are expected to vote next week to invest $3 million in the Columbus Commons project.  Those tax dollars, however, come with strings: A conservation easement would protect a portion of the site that is planned for a park.

 

Full story at http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2009/10/27/27citycenter.html?sid=101

Updates from City Center Mall

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Beautiful (aside from the wasted materials).

I think it's sad. Our parents talk about how when they were little, what they remember the most during the holidays were the lights downtown and all of the old department stores that went all out, investing in decorations and having a Santa Claus. I remember the City Center mall during christmas - it was pretty awesome. The vastness of the atrium was incredible and there were lights and decorations hanging from it. You could see the elevators moving up and down. They would have Santa Claus and concerts and stuff at the bottom. All of that is officially gone now.

Ahh yes... Let's look at the positives... With that monstrosity gone, this park will open up new angles of the skyline with some impressive new views. It's going to make some of the surrounding buildings appear taller. I for one can't wait for the City Center to be gone forever!

 

 

All of that is officially gone now.

 

 

All of that was officially gone a long time ago.

County commissioners postpone vote on Downtown park funds

Tuesday,  November 3, 2009 - 11:39 AM

By Barbara Carmen, The Columbus Dispatch

 

A $3 million deal, the last funds needed to build a 6-acre park and homes and businesses atop the old City Center Mall site, hit a snag today.  Franklin County commissioners postponed their vote on the grant for a week.  The prosecutor's office, busy with a murder trial, is still finishing its required review of the contract.

 

Full story at http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2009/11/03/city_center_park_web.html?sid=101

City Center Mall keeps coming down.  New pics of the former Marshall Field's at Third and Rich demolished from http://www.downtowncolumbus.com/progress/columbus-commons-demolition-November.

 

 

Holy cow. Wow. That is all I have to say. Goodbye City Center for better or worse...

A few photos that I took on Nov 8th:

 

<img src="http://www.columbusunderground.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/cc-new-1.jpg">

 

<img src="http://www.columbusunderground.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/cc-new-2.jpg">

 

<img src="http://www.columbusunderground.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/cc-new-3.jpg">

 

<img src="http://www.columbusunderground.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/cc-new-5.jpg">

Amazing how large a hole that place really was.

Wow, I can't believe that place is almost gone.  Just amazing...  hard to believe.  It's so weird to see something like that being torn down, a place that I remember when it first opened (although I was quite young) and roamed its floors.  It's strange...

Yeah, it's weird how it got demolished so soon. It's also strange how it opens up downtown so much. You get such a better view of the surrounding skyscrapers!

I was just talking to my parents (who don't live in Columbus anymore) about how downtown looks so different now that City Center is gone. Yes, I am kind of sad because my parents used to dress me up in suits just to go to City Center and I have lots of childhood memories in that building. But my dad said just think, now my kids will have lots of childhood memories in the same spot but now it will be a park! That was a good spin on things :)

Amazing how large a hole that place really was.

 

I told ya it would be a whopper.

Yep, it is weird...while it had to go, I'm finding it a little sad. I've been in that place a thousand times, strange that next time I'm down in C-bus it won't even be there. I've wondered if the mall just had better design, ie not so closed off to its surroundings, if all that retail would still be in existence downtown.

 

Wow, I can't believe that place is almost gone.  Just amazing...  hard to believe.  It's so weird to see something like that being torn down, a place that I remember when it first opened (although I was quite young) and roamed its floors.  It's strange...