^But this new casino would at the very least keep some of that revenue that normally leaves the state in Ohio.  The location makes sense to me... why compete with those PA, WV, MI and IN casinos when you don't have to?  This is a completely untapped market and the Wilmington location would bring the most tax revenue to the state IMO.  Heck, maybe this place will be so nice that it will actually attract people from IN, KY and WV!

^But this new casino would at the very least keep some of that revenue that normally leaves the state in Ohio.  The location makes sense to me... why compete with those PA, WV, MI and IN casinos when you don't have to?  This is a completely untapped market and the Wilmington location would bring the most tax revenue to the state IMO.  Heck, maybe this place will be so nice that it will actually attract people from IN, KY and WV!

 

I guess that's what I was getting at...its one thing to keep everyone living in Ohio from Columbus south from going to IN, KY, and WV.  It's another to draw in people from IN, KY, WV, and in Ohio north of Columbus down to your Casino in the middle of nowhere. 

 

So why I am going here as oppose to any other Casino that 1) I've become familiar with and like, 2) Have accumulated reward points, and 3) is no further away than this one?  What differentiates this Casino in the middle of nowhere Ohio? 

 

At this point, you're competing with other area Casinos outside the state...how are you going to be differentating yourself in Central Ohio?

 

The MGM grande in Vegas is one thing... this is completely different.  I'm sure that Argosy doesn't get 50% of its revenue from shopping, shows and what not.  People in Cincinnati might be torn between Indiana and this new one... but Columbus and Dayton folks would surely flock to this.  I like the location and if it's done right it really could be a destination.

 

Right - it is completely different from Vegas, but exactly the same as Moutaineer, Seneca, etc.  And it's location makes it more limited to becoming a destination and prohibits it from tying in overflow business from other activities.  I mean, if you end up at this Casino, the only reason you're there is to be at this Casino.  People are in Cincinnati, Columbus, Cleveland, etc for other reasons as it is, why not capitalize on that and make it more like Vegas?  Not in terms of the grand nature of Vegas, but in terms of it as a full out tourist destination catering to many audiences.

What we really need is a casino in the Arcade building in downtown Dayton, along with other casinos in other large, historic buildings in the rest of our state's downtowns.

 

Downtown casino= best revitilization tool ever

(Heck, they even make downtown Detroit look good.)

What we really need is a casino in the Arcade building in downtown Dayton, along with other casinos in other large, historic buildings in the rest of our state's downtowns.

 

Downtown casino= best revitilization tool ever

(Heck, they even make downtown Detroit look good.)

 

Looking good and functioning well are TWO different things.  If you look at a line item on those Detroit casino's the damage to the surrounding area is hurting not helping.

 

In addition, the cost on city services can't be recouped.

Casinos and taxes: What Issue 6 really means

Posted by Laura Johnston October 06, 2008 - 4:25AM

 

These days, the ads fly like mad. Vote yes - Issue 6 means millions of dollars for Ohio governments. Vote no - Issue 6 does not promise a penny. What the heck are they talking about?

 

Issue 6 is a proposal on the November ballot that would change the Ohio Constitution to allow a $600 million, 94-acre casino resort off Interstate 71 near Wilmington, northeast of Cincinnati.  It authorizes that specific casino only.

 

According to the amendment, the casino would be taxed up to 30 percent of its gambling revenue.  That money would pay for government regulation and gambling treatment programs, with the remainder doled out to Ohio's counties - 10 percent to the casino's home Clinton County, and the rest among Ohio's 87 other counties, based on population.

 

Full story at http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2008/10/casinos_and_taxes_what_issue_6.html

Issue 6: High stakes in casino vote

 

Two weeks from Tuesday, voters will decide whether to legalize what could be the largest casino in the Midwest - a monster 97-acre complex just off Interstate 71 near Wilmington.  Developers think they can win $850 million in projected annual gambling income as part of a total $1.2 billion in projected revenue.  If they did, the new casino could make the Southwest Ohio/Southeast Indiana market a challenger to Detroit as the nation's No. 5 gambling destination.  By itself, the casino would make Wilmington the nation's 11th largest market. 

 

With developers planning to hire more than 5,000 workers, the casino would be the region's 12th-largest private-sector employer - behind the Archdiocese of Cincinnati and ahead of Macy's Inc.  If the development were counted as a private enterprise, the $1.2 billion in total revenue - gambling plus restaurants, retail and lodging at a 1,500-room hotel - would make it large enough to tie with Fort Mitchell-based Drees Co. as the region's third-largest company.  And with up to 5,000 slot machines and 120 table games, the project would surpass any single casino in Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis or Minneapolis.

 

Full article at http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20081019/NEWS0106/810190379

I voted a big fat yes on Sat!  For those that are against this issue because of moral reason....start working on getting rid of state lotto, instant lotto, church casino nights, bingo, and the dreaded alcohol!  All these things within a poor persons walk in their neighborhood....not a drive to a resort.

I voted a big fat yes on Sat! For those that are against this issue because of moral reason....start working on getting rid of state lotto, instant lotto, church casino nights, bingo, and the dreaded alcohol! All these things within a poor persons walk in their neighborhood....not a drive to a resort.

I'm voting "No" because it isn't a smart piece of legislation. No moralizing, though gaming hasn't proved to be an elixir of any kind, I just think that if we are going to have casinos more than one company should be able to operate them to the taxpayers' benefit.

I'm voting no because I live in Wilmington.

Casino... NIMBY

The casino license they will be receiving for free, if it passes, is worth nearly $750 million that the state could get if they had a bidding war for 1 or 2 casino licenses.  I want a casino or two in Ohio but not one that benefits Ohio a little and this company immensely.

There are obvious other reasons... like the massive profits that the casino developers will be recieving... the idea that the casino will fix all the problems created by DHL... the amount of traffic and pollution that will be created in the middle of Cornbread, Ohio... I also don't really think that it is wise to just "make" a destination. A casino is so uncharacteristic of Wilmington... why not build it in Mason or Jeffersonville... those location already have attractions for the type of people who will be active at a casino. The 73 exit is going to turn into an ugly mess of fast food, cheap shopping and trashy business mecca

All good reasons, amongh many more, why I will be voting no.

eh, this one is a no.

 

whoever said make the dayton arcade into a casino...i like how you think. now that's some creative reuse!

 

quick question... is the poll attached to this thread from a previous vote?  That's my assumption.

I'm very creeped out by the fact that this is a deal for one particular business. It would seem a whole lot more logical to zone a particular area as acceptable for gambling, and then let the private sector fight it out for superiority among multiple operators.

 

That being said, I'm still voting Yes. I don't have any problems with casinos per se. So if this casino is authorized, there would theoretically be enough political will to authorize additional casinos, and end the monopoly, if the market ever warrants it.

I'm probably voting no, even though I support gambling.  Of all the plans floated for Ohio this seems like the worst.  Awful location & setup.  It seems like a bad deal for the gov't.  There should never be just one owner.  Let's do it right or not do it till we can.  We should make sure the government gets the largest possible cut.  I'd be cool with the state owning them.  At least that way no individual is profiting off of others' losses. 

Without reading too far back in the thread, I think casinos would be better served in existing larger urban areas.  The Dayton Arcade idea is fantastic, a riverboat in Cincy, a lakeshore one in Cleveland, etc.  Then they can take advantage of all the existing infrastructure of buildings, streets, hotels, parking, etc.

 

 

No doubt this state needs to stop paying taxes to IN, MI, PA and WV.  The fact that Ohio residents now realize that is the only reason this issue has any support.  This has to be the dumbest way to bring gambling to Ohio.  It has absolutely no impact on the money going out of state from most of Ohio.  No residents from Cleveland, Toledo, Youngstown and very few from Cincinnati will ever go to this place.  How does that solve our problem.  The fact is that gambling is here in Ohio to stay.  I think it's time we get the right proposal in place and use Ohio money to benefit Ohio residents.  I loved the slot machine issue a couple years ago, with two exceptions.  They should have inlcuded full casinos, not just slot machines.  They also should have put in requirements that all employees of the casinos and a majority of shareholders/owners must be Ohio residents.  WV has the employee requirement.  The fact that "someone is going to get rich" when casinos come to Ohio is likely.  Why don't we make sure whoever that is lives and invests their money in our state.  I also liked the fact that the money was tied directly to education.  Politicians didn't like it becasue they couldn't use the money to cover up their blunders.  I was really pissed that the opponents tried to point the finger at the Board that came up with the original plan for that money.  They did it without any concept of gambling being the funding source, and it really had some merits.  I don't have any problem if casinos are tied to the horse tracks because I understand the desire to keep that industry alive.  As long as we make sure to target the populations that are going to the out of state casinos.  It's sad to watch the money keep going out of Ohio, but I just can't vote for this issue because I think it would make it too hard to fix and make right.

The only reason I voted yes for this is because Wilmington could really use the jobs created after the DHL pullout.

Not a single one of those jobs is going to pay the salary that my friend's parents made working for DHL. I really doubt that all of those pilots, all of those building managers, all of those line supervisors, are going to get the same wage as a hotel maid or dealing cards. Not a chance.

 

I'm not disagreeing with your vote for Issue 6, I'm disagreeing with your reasoning.

Well I voted for it to help Wilmington, but it seems that it won't, so I guess it was a bad vote.  I also would just like to piss off the christian right, and have the casino open. 

I'm not saying it won't help wilmington... I'm just saying we're damned if it passes... we're especially damned if it doesn't pass.

I don't think this casino is going to be in the city limits. So it won't get any money from people that don't live in Wilmington.

I voted against the Lorain Casino years ago, because it allowed only one to be built by a particular developer.  This new proposal appears to fall into that category.  I did vote yes on the multiple casino (more recent) proposal.

No for me.

Casino plan craps out

 

The effort to bring casino gambling to Southwest Ohio was being soundly rejected by voters, who were turning down a statewide ballot that would have amended the state’s constitution to allow a new facility near Wilmington.  Issue 6, which would have paved the way for legalizing the construction of a $600 million casino development near Interstate 71 in Clinton County, was trailing 61 percent to 39 percent – and the Associated Press said it would not pass based on those early returns.

 

“It is encouraging,” said Bob Tenenbaum, spokesman for the No on 6 Committee. “It appears that this is passing in Clinton County and the surrounding small counties, but losing significantly everywhere else.  “There were just a lot of people who were both against gambling in general but also some who just saw this as having too many loopholes and putting one casino in one part of the state as simply the wrong way to do it.”

 

Full article at http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20081104/NEWS0106/811050304/1119/election

 

I supported the casino simply because Wilmington is struggling so badly and it would help them out, if not the rest of Ohio. If Wilmington were doing good, I wouldn't support it but then again, they would have just proposed it in any other struggling town.

It seems to be pretty clear at this point that Ohioans just don't care to have a casino in the state.  If there is one that they'll support it better be close to perfect in terms of its finances and overall impact for the state.  Otherwise it will probably keep being a no go.  The whole tax dollars leaving our state argument just doesn't seem to be working.

Ohioans are smarter than the casinos. No reason to punish our poor - now if only we could rid of the damnable lottery we'd be in good shape.

Ohioans are smarter than the casinos. No reason to punish our poor - now if only we could rid of the damnable lottery we'd be in good shape.

 

Ask people in Lawrenceburg what they think about their casino. It paid for their bridge, school books, scholarships, etc. (well, that's what I was told by a co-worker from there. I don't have any official sources).

 

The state lottery seems much worse in that regard.

Most of the voters who saw the vote no ads aired by the competitor casino in Indiana had no idea that they were being fed white lies and half truths.  I would like to see a casino in Lorain as their mayor had planned as an anchor for the lakeshore development.  I have bigger things to worry about than this, though.

I think the reasons the casino votes are failing is because Ohioans recognize the ridiculousness of amending the constitution to permit 1 or several specific casinos owned by specific groups.

 

What we need to vote on is an amendment to permit casinos establishing a board to regulate them, which can then determine the locations, ownership, etc.  We can't continue to amend the constitution every time a new casino wants to open.

 

Let's not kid ourselves, the poor in Ohio are still gambling, whether it be the lottery or Indiana, Michigan, or West Virginia.  I've been to all of them, and you see many Ohioans.  All of those people at the Argosy are not from Indiana.  It's foolish to let this tax base leave the state.

I think it will pass IF THEY LET US VOTE ON AN ISSUE that allows the 3 C's to each get one.  This crap of putting it in the middle of the country is ridiculous.  So is giving Cincy one and not C-land.  It pits different regions of the state against each other in that regard.  A couple years ago C-land was to get one while, Cincy was left out.

 

Put an issue on the ballot which gives one each to the 3 C's (and maybe even Dayton, Akron, and Toledo too) and watch it PASS then.

I like the idea of establishing a board that would have the power to oversee all gambling within the state.  Establish consistent criteria for where casinos can and can't be built, restrict permits to X new permits per year and auction them off to the highest bidders.

I think the reasons the casino votes are failing is because Ohioans recognize the ridiculousness of amending the constitution to permit 1 or several specific casinos owned by specific groups.

 

This is why I voted against Issue 6. 

 

I would not mind having casino gambling in Ohio, and I agree that it would be nice to keep the taxes in the state.  In my opinion, the lottery is probably way worse than any casino in terms in odds and the number of poor people gambling.  I have a much better chance of winning *something* at a casino than I do playing the lottery.

I would agree with casino gambling, but the last two proposals have been so poorly conceived that I could not support them.  Bring in the possibility of casinos in the major cities of Ohio, maybe also Sandusky/Erie Islands area, and I think Ohioans will support it.  This time around we didn't hear much from the bible thumpers and holy rollers who oppose all gambling plans.

^Exactly what you said

I think the reasons the casino votes are failing is because Ohioans recognize the ridiculousness of amending the constitution to permit 1 or several specific casinos owned by specific groups.

 

What we need to vote on is an amendment to permit casinos establishing a board to regulate them, which can then determine the locations, ownership, etc. We can't continue to amend the constitution every time a new casino wants to open.

 

Exactly

I agree with DanB. And honestly, if we're going to try and create jobs in Wilmington, is a casino the way to go? I'm not opposed to casinos or gambling, but quality jobs they are not. Haha I just thought of this.... It's like Walking Tall! I don't know about the original, but the one with The Rock and Johnny Knoxville. Hmmm, maybe I'm in favor of the Wilmington casino as long as it comes with a sheriff who beats the crap out of people with a huge stick.

I agree with the last several posts.  I think the majority in Ohio wants gambling like everyone else, but we keep getting hit with awful proposals.  Put casinos in the big cities and use the revenue to offset a reduction in business taxes.  The government needs a bigger cut.  I would be comfortable with having them largely government owned & operated.  I believe that is done in Ontario.

I think the majority of Ohio says they will vote 'yes' on a casino issue if the terms and conditions are right... but they'll never be right.  People will always find a reason to vote against a casino in this state.  I believe that most of the people that voted 'no' this year will vote 'no' every time on a casino issue.  They can claim that the legislation was poorly written all they want but when it comes down to it they've just been trained to say 'no' to casinos.

 

My sincere hope is that they get it right next year and we get several casinos in the state serving every major metro (Cleveland, Cincinnati, Columbus, Toledo, Akron).  I say put one in Lorain, Toledo, Wilmington, and maybe Youngstown.  I would think that a casino in Sandusky would be pretty successful too... make that even more of a destination.

We did vote on broader casino issues, something like 3 times in the last ten+ years. They all went down. Casinos are the worst sort of urban (and rural) development. Anyway, a bunch of them are going to go belly up, because you need easy money to make any profit in the gambling business.

Supporters of Ohio casino bid intend to begin again to place several casinos statewide

Posted by Michael Sangiacomo/Plain Dealer Reporter

November 5, 2008 19:00PM

 

Backers of Tuesday's failed casino referendum say they are gearing up for another try: This time they will propose several casinos around the state, including in Cleveland.  Rick Lertzman, co-founder of MyOhioNow, said he plans to soon begin the process to collect signatures for a petition to get a casino proposal on the ballot for November 2009.

 

"We have been talking to coalitions and groups in many parts of the state, including Clinton County, Cleveland, Toledo, Youngstown and Cincinnati, interested in joining the effort for casinos," he said. "We learned a lot from Tuesday night's loss, and we'll address it."

 

Issue 6, a state constitutional amendment that would have permitted one casino in Clinton County, lost by a vote of about 63 percent to 37 percent, or 3,153,553 to 1,885,839, according to final, unofficial results. The issue passed only in Clinton County and four counties nearby. It was the fourth time a gambling ballot issue had lost in Ohio since 1990.

 

More at http://www.cleveland.com/plaindealer

We did vote on broader casino issues, something like 3 times in the last ten+ years. They all went down. Casinos are the worst sort of urban (and rural) development. Anyway, a bunch of them are going to go belly up, because you need easy money to make any profit in the gambling business.

 

No, we really didn't.  Every vote had to do with an amendment to the constitution to permit SPECIFIC casinos.  My point is that we need to have a vote to permit gambling in general, then let a government agency govern it.  Only amend the constitution once.

Word..

 

I almost always have voted in favor of casinos but I even voted no on issue 6 because it was for amending the constitution for one casino? WTF was that?

 

What does it take to get an issue on the ballot to establish an Ohio Casino board that would have authority to auction off initally 5 licenses for franchise rights for the 5 regions of Ohio (NE, NW,SW,SE & central)?  I could support that!!

I voted against it because I'm tired of this state looking for a faux economic replacement for lost manufacturing jobs. Do what has to be done to restore the ability for manufacturing to again prosper here. Why? Because manufacturing creates tangible products that people can use and enjoy, it creates wealth rather than merely redistributing it, and it creates the demand for education in math, science, engineering, economics, history, sociology, etc.

 

What exactly does gambling "create"?

How about casinos at the urban intermodal transportation centers?  Sell your car and take Greyhound home...hyuk yuk.

It's purely social entertainment.  Just like any other kind of entertainment.  Professional sports, movies, etc.

 

Plus, you have the opportunity to actually come out ahead.  Can't go to a Browns game and go home with more money than you left with.

^ I don't know if trying to reestablish manufacturing is the way to go. The manufacturing base all over the country is in severe decline, it's just cheaper to produce things in other countries. I completely agree with the point though, real economic development needs to happen in these areas.

I agree with DanB's earlier point.  I think it is a bad strategy and a flawed ideology to amend the State Constitution for casinos in specific locations.  I don't know that it is the role of the government to regulate to that extreme.  If a casino fits with local zoning and building codes, then it is within the rights of the property owner to try to develop it in that sense...or at the very least take it through the planning process to see what locals think of the initiative.