I'm somewhat numb to the social ills that could be created by putting casinos in downtowns across the state, and would possibly not care at all about these developments if they weren't inherently damaging to the surrounding neighborhood due to their massiveness, general tackiness, and poor engagement with the adjacent urban fabric.  I just imagine these huge EIFS clad towers with gold mirrored glass,fake roman sculptures, and laser light shows for the kiddies.  If they were smaller and could seemlessly fit into existing neighborhoods (sans massive parking decks) they could be somewhat interesting additions to the city.  But I guess partonizing to the lowest common denominator, and almost in a way making it family friendly (disturbing) is a must with casinos.  Just wish this kind of thing could have a higher level of sophistication.

However, another thing to think about is what is all the tax money that would be generated by the casinos be used for?  I've heard schools, but what about supporting local and state public transit systems?

 

That's one of my concerns with putting one on Broadway Commons.

  I just imagine these huge EIFS clad towers with gold mirrored glass,fake roman sculptures, and laser light shows for the kiddies

Have you seen a rendering?

I just imagine these huge EIFS clad towers with gold mirrored glass,fake roman sculptures, and laser light shows for the kiddies

Have you seen a rendering?

 

Are there any? I don't remember ever seeing one.  There's no reason a casino couldn't be designed tastefully, and big signs and lights might not be a bad thing.  They tend to attract crowds, and any historic photo of Cincinnati I've seen has signs jutting off of buildings over the sidewalk/street everywhere.  I've always viewed it as gaudy but vibrant.

The only area I am a bit concerned about a Casino opening is Toledo.  In the event that a casino were to be built in Toledo, i think the success of it would depend on drawing Detroit people down to it daily.  However, with three Casiono's already in Detroit, and Casino Windsor I don't see that happening.  therefore, I thin Penn gaming will plan a scaled down version for Toledo, which will therefore take your Sandusky crowd out to Cleveland, and your Lima Crowd down to Cincy or Columbus.  I love Toledo and think it's a great town, but I think it really is stuck in the middle with having a Casino.  I look at it as similar to putting one in Canton if Cleveland already had a couple.

Most casinos look like casinos.  Maybe if the city ever did approve one, they could have an actual, honest-to-god architect design it.

But the whole idea of a casino is to be OVER THE TOP.  That doesn't fit in with any neighborhood.  Not even Times Square.

 

The only casinos that are "nice" and "pleasing" to the eye are in Monaco.

 

Vegas, AC, Reno, The gulf coast, Tunica.  All those Casinos are big box buildings with laser light shows and fountains.

 

 

 

 

What do we call that?

But the whole idea of a casino is to be OVER THE TOP. That doesn't fit in with any neighborhood. Not even Times Square.

 

The whole idea of a casino is to provide a place for people to gamble.  There's no law that states they must be gaudy meccas of tastelessness.

 

 

Are there any? I don't remember ever seeing one.

I haven't and that is somewhat surprising.  If construction is to begin immediatly I would think they would be floating around somewhere.

But the whole idea of a casino is to be OVER THE TOP.  That doesn't fit in with any neighborhood.  Not even Times Square.

 

The whole idea of a casino is to provide a place for people to gamble.  There's no law that states they must be gaudy meccas of tastelessness.

 

 

 

You're thinking to much and not looking at it from a marketing / consumer or Industry stand point.

 

Blinking & flashing lights attracts people.  The casinos industry has a history of building "gaudy", "tasteless" buildings.  That was part of the industry and its culture.  Each casino has some sort of gimick tied into their name.

 

Niagra falls first tried to up the anti and look at those casinos.  Foxwoods markets to a middle class and upper middle class and has done bambi "country club" marketing of the property...but it's still a big ugly box.

 

The idea is to offer a gimick to get folks in and keep them in. They don't want you to see the outside of a casino until you're ready to depart.

The idea is to offer a gimick to get folks in and keep them in. They don't want you to see the outside of a casino until you're ready to depart.

 

which is true for any business to the extent they can pull it off.  The difference here however is that these are parked in such close proximity to the CBD which has other major offerings.  Businesses like mine hope to pick up people as they move between the major venues.

On another note, where do you think many of the workers at the casino will live?  That alone has a major impact on places like OTR.

But the whole idea of a casino is to be OVER THE TOP. That doesn't fit in with any neighborhood. Not even Times Square.

 

The whole idea of a casino is to provide a place for people to gamble. There's no law that states they must be gaudy meccas of tastelessness.

 

 

 

You're thinking to much and not looking at it from a marketing / consumer or Industry stand point.

 

Blinking & flashing lights attracts people. The casinos industry has a history of building "gaudy", "tasteless" buildings. That was part of the industry and its culture. Each casino has some sort of gimick tied into their name.

 

Niagra falls first tried to up the anti and look at those casinos. Foxwoods markets to a middle class and upper middle class and has done bambi "country club" marketing of the property...but it's still a big ugly box.

 

The idea is to offer a gimick to get folks in and keep them in. They don't want you to see the outside of a casino until you're ready to depart.

 

Okay, history time!

 

The reason casinos looks they do is because of Vegas.  The reason Vegas looks the way IT does is because of the competition.  You're right that blinky lights and bright colors attract people, and that's exactly why Vegas looks like vomit from a drag queen's wardrobe.  The casinos are always trying to one-up each other and attract more business.

 

Cut to Cincinnati and the notion that ONE casino would take up residence downtown.  No competition, no need for a gaudy EXTERIOR, as there's nothing else to lure away its consumer base.  Make it nice, make it fit in with the surrounding landscape, and you've got a well received casino.

Make it nice, make it fit in with the surrounding landscape, and you've got a well received casino

I don't think anyone would argue with that.  Is Broadway commons covered by historic?

Make it nice, make it fit in with the surrounding landscape, and you've got a well received casino

I don't think anyone would argue with that. Is Broadway commons covered by historic?

 

I'm not sure.  A quick search on nps.gov yielded this: OHIO, HAMILTON COUNTY, Cincinnati East Manufacturing and Warehouse District, Between E. Court and E. Eighth, Broadway and Main Sts., Cincinnati, 99000318, LISTED, 3/12/99

 

Okay, history time!

 

The reason casinos looks they do is because of Vegas.  The reason Vegas looks the way IT does is because of the competition.  You're right that blinky lights and bright colors attract people, and that's exactly why Vegas looks like vomit from a drag queen's wardrobe.  The casinos are always trying to one-up each other and attract more business.

 

Cut to Cincinnati and the notion that ONE casino would take up residence downtown.  No competition, no need for a gaudy EXTERIOR, as there's nothing else to lure away its consumer base.  Make it nice, make it fit in with the surrounding landscape, and you've got a well received casino.

 

"History time"?  Child boo!

 

I agree, there is no need, but how do you do it?  Harrah's new orleans is about the dullest casino i've ever been in.  It would have to be watered down like that.

 

Has anyone in Clev, Col, or Toledo seen renderings?  I am very confident about the passage of this but the fact there is nothing out there regarding the details of a project that is supposed to begin "immediatly" gives me pause.

Okay, history time!

 

The reason casinos looks they do is because of Vegas. The reason Vegas looks the way IT does is because of the competition. You're right that blinky lights and bright colors attract people, and that's exactly why Vegas looks like vomit from a drag queen's wardrobe. The casinos are always trying to one-up each other and attract more business.

 

Cut to Cincinnati and the notion that ONE casino would take up residence downtown. No competition, no need for a gaudy EXTERIOR, as there's nothing else to lure away its consumer base. Make it nice, make it fit in with the surrounding landscape, and you've got a well received casino.

 

"History time"? Child boo!

 

I agree, there is no need, but how do you do it? Harrah's new orleans is about the dullest casino i've ever been in. It would have to be watered down like that.

 

 

I guessed you missed the BIG CAPITALIZED "EXTERIOR" that I threw in there.  I couldn't care less what the INTERIOR looks like.  I just don't want a gaudy monstrosity ruining beautiful downtown Cincinnati. 

 

It's not a hard concept, MTS.  Especially when you consider that Cincinnati was a weatlth of beautiful architecture already in place.

It's as if there's going to be no input from the City, Planning Commission, or local residents and businesses.  The way this thing is being pursued Steubenville, Strongsville, and Cincinnati get as much say on what happens in my back yard as I do.

 

Making that post without stating exactly what your job is, is useless.

 

Why not, did I not make it clear that aspects of the casino will be in direct competition with my employer?

Okay, history time!

 

The reason casinos looks they do is because of Vegas.  The reason Vegas looks the way IT does is because of the competition.  You're right that blinky lights and bright colors attract people, and that's exactly why Vegas looks like vomit from a drag queen's wardrobe.  The casinos are always trying to one-up each other and attract more business.

 

Cut to Cincinnati and the notion that ONE casino would take up residence downtown.  No competition, no need for a gaudy EXTERIOR, as there's nothing else to lure away its consumer base.  Make it nice, make it fit in with the surrounding landscape, and you've got a well received casino.

 

"History time"?  Child boo!

 

I agree, there is no need, but how do you do it?  Harrah's new orleans is about the dullest casino i've ever been in.  It would have to be watered down like that.

 

 

I guessed you missed the BIG CAPITALIZED "EXTERIOR" that I threw in there.  I couldn't care less what the INTERIOR looks like.  I just don't want a gaudy monstrosity ruining beautiful downtown Cincinnati. 

 

It's not a hard concept, MTS.  Especially when you consider that Cincinnati was a weatlth of beautiful architecture already in place.

 

THe exterior is what Im speaking about.  Have you seen Harrah's?

It's as if there's going to be no input from the City, Planning Commission, or local residents and businesses. The way this thing is being pursued Steubenville, Strongsville, and Cincinnati get as much say on what happens in my back yard as I do.

 

Making that post without stating exactly what your job is, is useless.

 

Why not, did I not make it clear that aspects of the casino will be in direct competition with my employer?

 

I don't what that means.  Do you work at an illegal casino? 

 

My point was that it's pointless to discuss the affects a casino would have on your job if you're not willing to disclose what you do.  That's not a discussion.  That's you asking people to take your word for it.  And since I don't you from Adam, that's not going to fly in a discussion setting.  Which, this is.

 

If you'd like to talk about what you do and how a casino would actually affect your job instead of just stating that it would, I'm all ears.  If not, my part in this discussion with you is over.

 

And MTS, what does it matter if you find the exterior of a casino to be dull?  You're spending money INSIDE.

It's as if there's going to be no input from the City, Planning Commission, or local residents and businesses.  The way this thing is being pursued Steubenville, Strongsville, and Cincinnati get as much say on what happens in my back yard as I do.

 

Making that post without stating exactly what your job is, is useless.

 

Why not, did I not make it clear that aspects of the casino will be in direct competition with my employer?

 

I don't what that means.  Do you work at an illegal casino? 

 

My point was that it's pointless to discuss the affects a casino would have on your job if you're not willing to disclose what you do.  That's not a discussion.  That's you asking people to take your word for it.  And since I don't you from Adam, that's not going to fly in a discussion setting.  Which, this is.

 

If you'd like to talk about what you do and how a casino would actually affect your job instead of just stating that it would, I'm all ears.  If not, my part in this discussion with you is over.

 

I'm not going to put too fine a point on who I work for because it doesn't matter to the discussion, as my point isn't my job, but the degree to which casinos will cannibalize the entertainment dollars, and therefore jobs, in competing businesses. 

 

The casino proposal, at least in Cleveland, includes other facilities- hotel, restaurant, and concert venue.  Casinos use those as loss leaders to bring people into their extremely profitable gambling facilities.  That means that hotels, restaurants, and concert venues in the casino's markets will have to compete with a subsidized facility doing what they do.  Does that sound fair to you?

 

 

It's as if there's going to be no input from the City, Planning Commission, or local residents and businesses.  The way this thing is being pursued Steubenville, Strongsville, and Cincinnati get as much say on what happens in my back yard as I do.

 

Making that post without stating exactly what your job is, is useless.

 

Why not, did I not make it clear that aspects of the casino will be in direct competition with my employer?

 

I don't what that means.  Do you work at an illegal casino? 

 

My point was that it's pointless to discuss the affects a casino would have on your job if you're not willing to disclose what you do.  That's not a discussion.  That's you asking people to take your word for it.  And since I don't you from Adam, that's not going to fly in a discussion setting.  Which, this is.

 

If you'd like to talk about what you do and how a casino would actually affect your job instead of just stating that it would, I'm all ears.  If not, my part in this discussion with you is over.

 

And MTS, what does it matter if you find the exterior of a casino to be dull?  You're spending money INSIDE.

 

Because it will be another big box building.

 

Some of you whippersnappers need to live a little and experience a bit more personally and professionally.  Not everything is 1,2,3 or as it should be in a perfect world.

It's as if there's going to be no input from the City, Planning Commission, or local residents and businesses.  The way this thing is being pursued Steubenville, Strongsville, and Cincinnati get as much say on what happens in my back yard as I do.

 

Making that post without stating exactly what your job is, is useless.

 

Why not, did I not make it clear that aspects of the casino will be in direct competition with my employer?

 

I don't what that means.  Do you work at an illegal casino? 

 

My point was that it's pointless to discuss the affects a casino would have on your job if you're not willing to disclose what you do.  That's not a discussion.  That's you asking people to take your word for it.  And since I don't you from Adam, that's not going to fly in a discussion setting.  Which, this is.

 

If you'd like to talk about what you do and how a casino would actually affect your job instead of just stating that it would, I'm all ears.  If not, my part in this discussion with you is over.

 

And MTS, what does it matter if you find the exterior of a casino to be dull?  You're spending money INSIDE.

 

Because it will be another big box building.

 

Some of you whippersnappers need to live a little and experience a bit more personally and professionally.  Not everything is 1,2,3 or as it should be in a perfect world.

 

MTS, you're about as uncreative as a rock.  Not being gaudy does not translate into "big box building."  Get out more.  Open up an architecture book.  DISCOVER.

 

It's as if there's going to be no input from the City, Planning Commission, or local residents and businesses.  The way this thing is being pursued Steubenville, Strongsville, and Cincinnati get as much say on what happens in my back yard as I do.

 

Making that post without stating exactly what your job is, is useless.

 

Why not, did I not make it clear that aspects of the casino will be in direct competition with my employer?

 

I don't what that means.  Do you work at an illegal casino? 

 

My point was that it's pointless to discuss the affects a casino would have on your job if you're not willing to disclose what you do.  That's not a discussion.  That's you asking people to take your word for it.  And since I don't you from Adam, that's not going to fly in a discussion setting.  Which, this is.

 

If you'd like to talk about what you do and how a casino would actually affect your job instead of just stating that it would, I'm all ears.  If not, my part in this discussion with you is over.

 

I'm not going to put too fine a point on who I work for because it doesn't matter to the discussion, as my point isn't my job, but the degree to which casinos will cannibalize the entertainment dollars, and therefore jobs, in competing businesses. 

 

The casino proposal, at least in Cleveland, includes other facilities- hotel, restaurant, and concert venue.  Casinos use those as loss leaders to bring people into their extremely profitable gambling facilities.  That means that hotels, restaurants, and concert venues in the casino's markets will have to compete with a subsidized facility doing what they do.  Does that sound fair to you?

 

 

 

It sounds like a bunch of bull, to be honest.  Show me one casino with a concert venue that resulted in the closing of an established venue.  I'm not aware of any.  Show me one hotel that closed because the casino built one of their own.  I'm not aware of one.  Hotels spring up around casinos, not go under.  The same thing happens with restaurants.  This isn't rocket science.

MTS, you're about as uncreative as a rock.  Not being gaudy does not translate into "big box building."  Get out more.  Open up an architecture book.  DISCOVER.

Since i do marketing and creative for a living i'll let that slide, since its very obvious you have no idea what you're talking about on this subject.

 

Im done.

 

Me .. not creative, puh-lease...kiss my culo!

What else am I supposed to think when you equate "not gaudy" with "big box store"?  That's the thought process of someone who's not thinking.

It doesn't seem to me that you're backing up your assertions either, Moonlight, so you could just as easily stand accused of BS.  At any rate, I'm done discussing the matter with you.  Try being a little less abrasive in the future, and avoid making every discussion into a polemic.  You might actually sway minds then, instead of having people just shrug their shoulders and say "Forget this guy.  He's not worth talking to."

It doesn't seem to me that you're backing up your assertions either, Moonlight, so you could just as easily stand accused of BS. At any rate, I'm done discussing the matter with you. Try being a little less abrasive in the future, and avoid making every discussion into a polemic. You might actually sway minds then, instead of having people just shrug their shoulders and say "Forget this guy. He's not worth talking to."

 

I don't see how my responses to you were any less abrasive than yours to mine.  And I'm not trying to sway minds here.  It's all pretty cut and dry.  I've asked you to provide details on how a casino would rob you of your job, and you've refused to do so.  If it's for confidentiality purposes, I can respect that, but don't expect others to fall in line with your opinions just because they're your own.  If you want to discuss something, discuss it.  I've also asked for specific examples to the specific scenarios that you posed, and you've refused to do that as well.  It's definitely for the better that the discussion here is over, as it wasn't much of one to begin with, was it?

Let's see what kind of fun they have in the real world outside the casinos.

 

If they would take me up on it, I'll personally rent a bus for Dan Gilbert and all of our Cleveland politicians (and throw in a few state politicos) to take a weekend trip with me. 

 

Friday night will be to Niagara Falls USA to witness the neighborhoods that the Seneca Casino has destroyed.  Too bad our bus won't fit in the parking garage--they'll have to rough it and walk around the neighborhood from one of the surface lots the casino built by razing the surrounding homes and businesses.

 

Saturday night we head on over to Detroit USA to walk the streets of downtown Detroit in between their two "world-class" casinos.  No security.  No escorts.  No media.  Just me, Dan, and the politicians.  My guess is they wouldn't last 10 seconds before they were back on the bus wishing they had driven their own car so they could safely park in one of the attached casino parking structures with the other suburbanites.

 

Let's see what kind of fun they have in the real world outside the casinos.

Were you planning on dropping by Milwaukee's Potawatomi Casino? I believe you will find its downtown location and its surroundings are thriving. Or are you planning to drive them by the proposed location in Cincinnati where we are desperatly trying to invigorate the adjacent neighborhoods of Pendleton and OTR,(considered one of the most endangered historic sites in the country) whereas the current parking lot (which is the proposed site for the casino) is doing little to spur economic development although meanwhile many developers and businessmen are anxiously awaiting a casino vote, present company included. Stopping by there as well?

Let's see what kind of fun they have in the real world outside the casinos.

Were you planning on dropping by Milwaukee's Potawatomi Casino? I believe you will find its downtown location and its surroundings are thriving.

 

That couldn't possibly be, though.  Casinos ruin local economies.  :roll:

 

For anyone who honestly thinks that, check out Lawrenceburg and Aurora.  Plenty of bustling, local businesses.

Where do people think the employees eat, shop, live etc etc etc....? The casino? If those who work at Belterra are eating at Ruby's every day then I will apply for a job there. In Lawrencburg I see a new Lowes, I see adjacent hotels for those who either can not get into a booked hotel at the casino or do not want to pay the huge per night cost. I see restaurants, gas stations, Krogers, car dealerships and on and on. I am not blind nor am I dumb enough to believe that the huge influx of not just patrons, but employees doesn't make a difference--a big difference.

Where do people think the employees eat, shop, live etc etc etc....? The casino? If those who work at Belterra are eating at Ruby's every day then I will apply for a job there. In Lawrencburg I see a new Lowes, I see adjacent hotels for those who either can not get into a booked hotel at the casino or do not want to pay the huge per night cost. I see restaurants, gas stations, Krogers, car dealerships and on and on. I am not blind nor am I dumb enough to believe that the huge influx of not just patrons, but employees doesn't make a difference--a big difference.

 

Not only that, but if you go west a bit into Aurora, they've got a beautiful town square on the river with local restaurants and shops. 

The more I hear the counter-argument the more I am convinced that we do need a casino.  So far I have heard that all of the jobs are coming from Vegas and New Jersey...please.  Churches oppose it, not because of moral issues, but rather it will cut into their bingo money.  And finally with the influx of people and jobs, it will ruin an already ruined area.  I am having trouble understanding the other side or is this all they are reduced to?

I guess some groups like telling other people what they can and cannot do with their money.  I don't know if Cleveland particularly needs a casino, but I sincerely doubt it will result in our city blossoming or falling into economic blight. 

 

There is clearly no general consensus as to how beneficial or detrimental casinos are, and these arguments are getting redundant.  All I know for sure is that since my friends and I can't gamble here legally, we go to Canada every so often - perhaps once every few months - to spend our money on slots, tables, hotels, food, and other amenities.  If gambling were legal here, we'd probably spent this money in this region instead.

 

 

^It is really that simple.

I guess some groups like telling other people what they can and cannot do with their money. I don't know if Cleveland particularly needs a casino, but I sincerely doubt it will result in our city blossoming or falling into economic blight.

 

There is clearly no general consensus as to how beneficial or detrimental casinos are, and these arguments are getting redundant. All I know for sure is that since my friends and I can't gamble here legally, we go to Canada every so often - perhaps once every few months - to spend our money on slots, tables, hotels, food, and other amenities.   If gambling were legal here, we'd probably spent this money in this region instead.

 

 

 

Completely agree.......Me and my friends go to W VA every month.  I hate that drive.  We would rather lose our money locally. 

Aurora is a good example.  The reason Aurora didn't apply for a casino license is that they entered into an agreement with Lawrenceburg and Rising Sun not to compete for a share of the casino receipts.

 

I just see it as money leaving the state.  I'm not so much concerned about where the employees are coming from, or what it might do to the surrounding areas.  I spend a lot of time in Lawenceburg and Rising Sun and see a lot of Ohio license plates.  There is a lot of money being spent there, it may as well be going to a casino in Cincinnati. 

Aurora is a good example.  The reason Aurora didn't apply for a casino license is that they entered into an agreement with Lawrenceburg and Rising Sun not to compete for a share of the casino receipts.

 

I just see it as money leaving the state.  I'm not so much concerned about where the employees are coming from, or what it might do to the surrounding areas.  I spend a lot of time in Lawenceburg and Rising Sun and see a lot of Ohio license plates.  There is a lot of money being spent there, it may as well be going to a casino in Cincinnati. 

 

Stop the presses, DanB and I agree on something.  :laugh:

Trying to give me another heart attack?  Actually, I was at the Grand Victoria when I had my heart attack last Saturday.  I thought it would be in poor taste to drop dead in the middle of a roll, so we left!

Trying to give me another heart attack?  Actually, I was at the Grand Victoria when I had my heart attack last Saturday.  I thought it would be in poor taste to drop dead in the middle of a roll, so we left!

 

You mean you didn't wait until you hit a high-low to leave?

Now that has the making of a fun evening!  Shooting craps with MTS!!

Just think, if you would have been gambling at casinos at Broadway Commons in Cincinnati when you had your heart attack, you would have been just minutes away from some of the best hospitals in the country.

My thoughts exactly, that's why I chose to drive home instead of going to Dearborn County General Hospital (no offense to our Indiana friends)!

Aurora is a good example.  The reason Aurora didn't apply for a casino license is that they entered into an agreement with Lawrenceburg and Rising Sun not to compete for a share of the casino receipts.

 

I just see it as money leaving the state.  I'm not so much concerned about where the employees are coming from, or what it might do to the surrounding areas.  I spend a lot of time in Lawenceburg and Rising Sun and see a lot of Ohio license plates.  There is a lot of money being spent there, it may as well be going to a casino in Cincinnati. 

 

Employee's coming from out of state can be a good thing. They'll need a place to live, eat, shop, etc...

I want to know who the 3 people are that voted "Who cares?"  There are really 3 people on UO that don't care about Ohio's economy?

Well, if this passes, there's a damn good chance I will lose my job and the roof over my head.  Why, because the casino proposal includes elements that are directly competitive with my place of employment, but they will likely use those facilities as loss leaders to get people into their casino.  How many of those thousands of jobs are going to be offset by job losses at other entertainment venues?  Most, in my guesstimation.  Why don't you care about those jobs?  Maybe you should go around to those people and apologize, and tell them "I'm sorry, but your job isn't as valuable as the new job being created at the new state enforced monopoly casino!"

 

X, I appreciate your concerns but I believe them to be based on the old casino paradigm of cheap buffets, 99 cent shrimp cocktails and $4.99 all you can eat prime rib to get folks to choose one casino over the other. I've been in Las Vegas now for over 10 years and I can tell you that is rarely the case. Only folks that gamble a lot get comps of any kind. In fact most of the bars and restaurants are priced  significantly higher then neighborhood joints. It's not unusual to spend $12- $15 for a drink of barely better than bottom shelf stuff. This is one of the reasons I get good and liquored up before I drive to the casinos.

:drunk:

 

Seriously ,with few other casinos to compete against I would say it's likely these Ohio casinos will have overpriced food, drink and entertainment.

Who wants to go to Detroit? 

Let's see what kind of fun they have in the real world outside the casinos.

Were you planning on dropping by Milwaukee's Potawatomi Casino? I believe you will find its downtown location and its surroundings are thriving. Or are you planning to drive them by the proposed location in Cincinnati where we are desperatly trying to invigorate the adjacent neighborhoods of Pendleton and OTR,(considered one of the most endangered historic sites in the country) whereas the current parking lot (which is the proposed site for the casino) is doing little to spur economic development although meanwhile many developers and businessmen are anxiously awaiting a casino vote, present company included. Stopping by there as well?

 

The point of my post was more directed at Cleveland and Cavs owner Dan Gilbert.  He acts like a casino will save our city--but in his hometown of Detroit they've done nothing.  I think the new football and baseball stadiums have helped, but the biggest draw continues to be the Red Wings playing in their aging building.

 

The casinos draw--but that's it.  They draw to the parking garages and keep their patrons locked away.

 

There's no arguing a casino could help some locations-but I've seen plenty of examples where it does nothing. Keep the list going.  Detroit, Niagara Falls, Windsor, St Louis, Evansville....you name it--the casinos came and the region continues to struggle.  So why not invest that energy elsewhere?

Let's see what kind of fun they have in the real world outside the casinos.

Were you planning on dropping by Milwaukee's Potawatomi Casino? I believe you will find its downtown location and its surroundings are thriving. Or are you planning to drive them by the proposed location in Cincinnati where we are desperatly trying to invigorate the adjacent neighborhoods of Pendleton and OTR,(considered one of the most endangered historic sites in the country) whereas the current parking lot (which is the proposed site for the casino) is doing little to spur economic development although meanwhile many developers and businessmen are anxiously awaiting a casino vote, present company included. Stopping by there as well?

 

The point of my post was more directed at Cleveland and Cavs owner Dan Gilbert. He acts like a casino will save our city--but in his hometown of Detroit they've done nothing. I think the new football and baseball stadiums have helped, but the biggest draw continues to be the Red Wings playing in their aging building.

 

The casinos draw--but that's it. They draw to the parking garages and keep their patrons locked away.

 

There's no arguing a casino could help some locations-but I've seen plenty of examples where it does nothing. Keep the list going. Detroit, Niagara Falls, Windsor, St Louis, Evansville....you name it--the casinos came and the region continues to struggle. So why not invest that energy elsewhere?

 

Casinos don't save cities, but they don't kill them either.  Let's just be honest, this is all about tax revenue for the state/counties and profit for casino owners like Gilbert and there's nothing wrong with that IMO.

Why can't we put the licenses up for bid, though?  Instead we're looking to pass a law to give a specific owner the privilege at a cut rate price.  It surprises me that this aspect doesn't bother more people. 

That bothers me a bit, but it is better than the past few efforts.  I would prefer a change to the constitution that would permit legal casino gambling in Ohio. Period.  Then, leave it up to the free market.  Doesn't seem like that would be possible any time in the near future, so I can accept this plan.