March 3, 200916 yr It is possible, however, that even if the casino does very little to bring new establishments to OTR, the Casino will still be bringing people to a corner of the city that few people visit, causing the area to at least be perceived as safer. I don't know really... The extra eyes couldn't hurt! Even though they'd probably build a couple multistory garages and you probably wouldn't HAVE two step foot on a sidewalk if you didn't want to. I think it would generate some extra foot traffic though. Just depends what kind of businesses would follow them in.
March 3, 200916 yr After four strikeouts, another Ohio casino proposal steps to the plate -- editorial Tuesday, March 03, 2009 When it comes to casino gambling in Ohio, a lot of rich people still haven't seemed to figure out how badly the deck is stacked against them. Yet another coalition is being formed in an attempt to persuade Ohioans to accept what they have rejected four times, including twice in the past three years. Even though a casino issue has never come close to winning voter approval, a new group of business leaders -- including Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert -- and gaming companies plans to fund a November ballot issue that would allow for four casinos in Ohio. Gilbert would own the Cleveland casino, which would probably be somewhere behind the Terminal Tower. The other casinos would be in Columbus, Cincinnati and Toledo. Ohio voters may eventually sign off on one of these casino schemes, but the odds of that happening anytime soon seem long. Ohioans overwhelmingly rejected casino gambling in 1990, 1996, 2006 and 2008. The closest of those elections was 2006, when gaming was defeated 57 percent to 43 percent. In the three other elections, more than 60 percent voted no. The biggest defeat came just last November, when only 37 percent of voters supported a casino proposed for southwest Ohio's Clinton County. Full editorial at http://www.cleveland.com/editorials/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/opinion/1236072795297350.xml&coll=2
March 3, 200916 yr Who cares what counties it passed in, when the population is concentrated in a handful of them. We've been offered a lot of terrible casino setups, worse each time. The last couple have been ridiculous. They're right that the state's cut is paramount in evaluating a proposal.
March 11, 200916 yr New Ohio casino plan officially unveiled; former Cincinnati mayor Charlie Luken leads groupPosted by Reginald Fields/Plain Dealer Columbus Bureau Chief March 11, 2009 11:11AM Categories: Real Time News Brynne Shaw/The Plain Dealer UPDATED 12:09 p.m. COLUMBUS — Backers of a plan calling for four, full-fledged casinos in Ohio's largest cities -- Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati and Toledo -- officially announced this morning a ballot initiative for November. (Related: Read the full news release with details of the plan.) The plan, first reported by The Plain Dealer two weeks ago, is backed by Cleveland Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert and Penn National Gaming, a prominent casino operator, which owns the popular Argosy casino in Indiana. Other investors are also expected to join the effort. continued at>>>>> http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2009/03/casino_proposal_backed_by_cavs.html
March 11, 200916 yr The petition filed at the attorney general's office identifies locations for where the casinos would be located in each city. In Cleveland, the property mainly lies between Gilbert's Quicken Loans Arena and Tower City and includes part of the old Higbee's Building. That's the most interesting part, if you ask me.
March 11, 200916 yr The petition filed at the attorney general's office identifies locations for where the casinos would be located in each city. In Cleveland, the property mainly lies between Gilbert's Quicken Loans Arena and Tower City and includes part of the old Higbee's Building. That's the most interesting part, if you ask me. How in the heck do you put a casino in Higbees? I swear those FC folks are looking at anyway to use their property except as a department store.
March 11, 200916 yr ^Yeah, that doesn't really make sense. "Between Quicken Loans Arena and Tower City and includes part of the old Higbee's Building"? Either its completely in Tower City (the only way to include "part" of the Higbee's building) or maybe they meant the old May Company building, which makes more sense to me. I work in that building and those massive, windowless floors would work well as a casino. And the "part of" makes sense because Caddy Ranch takes up part of it already.
March 11, 200916 yr The petition filed at the attorney general's office identifies locations for where the casinos would be located in each city. In Cleveland, the property mainly lies between Gilbert's Quicken Loans Arena and Tower City and includes part of the old Higbee's Building. That's the most interesting part, if you ask me. How in the heck do you put a casino in Higbees? I swear those FC folks are looking at anyway to use their property except as a department store. I don't know square footage, but that first floor would certainly work for some of the casino floor. With an entrance at Prospect/Ontario.
March 11, 200916 yr Crain's sheds a little more light on the Cleveland location: http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20090311/FREE/903119960 Cleveland Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert part of Ohio casino initiative By JAY MILLER 11:27 am, March 11, 2009
March 11, 200916 yr From Business First of Columbus: New casino pitch puts one in Columbus Business First of Columbus - by Jeff Bell A Pennsylvania gaming company and Cleveland Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert want to build four casinos in Ohio, including one on the edge of the Arena District in Columbus. The Ohio Jobs and Growth Committee, a political action committee, submitted paperwork to the Ohio Attorney General’s Office Wednesday seeking to place a constitutional amendment on the Nov. 3 ballot. It would ask voters to approve a plan to build casinos in Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati and Toledo in which Penn National Gaming Inc. and Gilbert would be the investors. Once petition language is approved by the attorney general, the committee would begin collecting signatures to place the issue on the statewide ballot. In a release, casino organizers said the projects would represent a $1 billion investment and provide $200 million in licensing fees to the state and $600 million annually in tax revenue. Most of the tax dollars would go to counties, cities and school districts, the release said. “These investments will help to revitalize struggling Ohio metropolitan areas while providing support for counties, cities and public schools across the state as well as Ohio’s horse racing industry,” Penn National Peter Carlino said in a statement. Full article at http://columbus.bizjournals.com/columbus/stories/2009/03/09/daily23.html
March 11, 200916 yr Ohio group submits casino plan A group chaired by former Cincinnati mayor Charlie Luken says it has submitted to the Ohio attorney general a statewide constitutional amendment that would permit casinos in Cincinnati and three other Ohio cities. The Ohio Jobs and Growth Committee says in a statement that the casinos would be in Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus and Toledo. Cincinnati's would be at Broadway Commons, a chunk of land on the eastern edge of downtown that some favored as the site for a new baseball stadium after the Reds left Riverfront Stadium. The casino idea got an immediate endorsement from Mayor Mark Mallory today: "If the voters want gambling, I think we should have it," he said. Full article at http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090311/NEWS0108/303110040/1055/NEWS
March 12, 200916 yr My main question is how would a casino at Broadway Commons impact OTR? Do casinos in urban areas increase development in the surrounding area, or do they stifle development and contribute to more crime? I am sure there are plenty of case studies on this issue. If a casino would help OTR then I am all for it.
March 12, 200916 yr Just look at the casino's in Indiana. I never heard of any major crimes over there.
March 12, 200916 yr While you can find just about anything on the internet supporting any position you want to take, this one sums up how I feel: http://chestertontribune.com/PoliceFireEmergency/casinos_social_corrosion_worst_n.htm
March 12, 200916 yr How much street crime is there in established casino towns? They aren't known for it. Detroit's original casinos were practically IN the projects, and I don't recall them having significant security problems. Several Canadian examples seem to bolster the idea that casino towns are considered safe and clean, but for all I know that could be a Canadian thing. I'm not familiar with any other large-scale urban casino examples. But I only hear about casino-crime linkages from anti-casino sources. It doesn't seem to play out that way at all when they're built.
March 12, 200916 yr I think that you have to look at how casinos have impacted the neighborhood when they are placed in established urban areas. Looking at the impact a casino had on a rural Indiana town won't tell you much about how a casino placed in downtown Cincinnati will effect the surrounding area. I also dont think that you can use Atlantic City as an example, because the casinos pretty much took over that city. That isnt what is being proposed for Cincy, Cleveland etc. I better comparison might be the casino in New Orleans. I have been to that casino and the surrounding area seemed pretty nice and safe, but that was my quick impression of the area. Someone more familiar with that area of New Orleans might have a different take.
March 12, 200916 yr I think St. Louis has riverboat gambling right by dt, that might be a good place to look.
March 12, 200916 yr Obviously, if we're going to spread them out so that there is only one casino in each major city, the point isn't to attract gambling vacationers, but to draw local dollars into the casinos. That dampens my enthusiasm for the casino as any sort of economic development, instead they will engines for the redistribution of income from the many citizens of the region to the few, already rich owners of the casino. I suppose we may as well throw those dollars in a local toilet instead of one in Detroit's, right? I like the idea of reusing Higbee's better than that of building a large Vegas style complex on Scranton. The last thing we need is to make this thing into a self contained casino/hotel/restaurant/maze complex, though I suppose that is what TC will serve as. Something needs to prop them up, I guess.
March 12, 200916 yr The casino would not help OTR. Casinos tend to be self-contained islands. Case in point is the Seneca Falls casino in Niagra Falls, NY. Thousands of people inside and typical urban desolation just two blocks away. I remember the Harrah's in New Orleans being the same way. The other problem with a Broadway Commons casino is that it would displace thousands of parking spots, meaning it would be surrounded by large parking garages, at least on the Gilbert Ave. side. I expect any casino there to be totally gaudy and out of character with the neighborhood. I do think that it could help people support the modern streetcar, since a suburbanite can imagine riding the streetcar from a game to the casino, even though that probably wouldn't be all that many people.
March 12, 200916 yr I think that Mayor Mallory and other local leaders should make their support of a Cincy casino conditional upon having imput/veto power on the design and layout of any casino that is built at Broadway Commons. The casino owners shouldnt be allowed to throw up just any old design. People that have the best interst of the city should call the shots on not only how the buildings look aesthetically, but also how they are laid out. It should be organized in a way that prevents the casino from becoming an island unto itself. Perhaps by breaking it up into multiple buildings. Obvioulsy, the casino owners will have opposite motivation. They will want a cheaply constructed building that contains barriers to a patron venturing out of the casino and into the CBD or OTR. I say tough luck. If you want to build your casino in our city you should have to do right by the city. I hope that Mallory and others will adopt this view.
March 12, 200916 yr According to the Google Earth measure tool, Argosy's boat measures 400x100 feet. That obviously does not include the whole entrance complex. But Argosy would cover only 1/4 of a Cincinnati city block. So my point is casinos often aren't as large as they seem. This means the casino wouldn't come even close to filling Broadway Commons, which is roughly 1,000x1,000 feet. My thinking is that this could possibly be better in the CBD than at Broadway Commons -- specifically the big parking lot next to the county offices between Walnut, CP, and Court, which measures 200x200 with more frontage along Central Parkway. There is also the parking lot opposite the back side of the Aronoff Center, which is bounded by 7th, 8th, and Sycamore. Some of this lot sneaks around and is visible from Main. I think this lot could work.
March 12, 200916 yr A better comparison might be one of the detroit casinos, or windsor's and see what their footprint is. Were you measuring the current argosy, or the new one?
March 13, 200916 yr Agree!! Reuse Higbees and revitalize that beautiful, classic building. I am scared to death of the idea of them building a new Vegas style cheese factory that looks completely out of place. I like the idea of reusing Higbee's better than that of building a large Vegas style complex on Scranton. The last thing we need is to make this thing into a self contained casino/hotel/restaurant/maze complex, though I suppose that is what TC will serve as. Something needs to prop them up, I guess.
March 13, 200916 yr Honestly, if Cincinnati was going to build a casino there are plenty of models available Newport that were actually casinos. The building that is right by the Millennium Parking Lot (I'm not sure what it is called these days, it has changed names a couple times) would seem like a good model for a Cincinnati casino (ick). I think we need more sketchy guys running numbers and have secret code words to play games in abandoned warehouses.
March 13, 200916 yr >Were you measuring the current argosy, or the new one? The original one, which has 2 or 3 floors. Looks like that one in Detroit is a single floor and much larger. The one in Niagra Falls, NY is about 500x500. The riverboat casinos don't have restaurants on the boats, they're on the shores. So the casinos themselves are relatively small. It's the accompanying restaurants and parking that take up so much space. A way to actually stimulate surrounding areas would be to prohibit the casinos from having restaurants on their premises. That would open the door for surrounding property owners to rent their storefronts for new restaurants. I hate everything about casinos. The sound of the machines, the bad live music, the cheesy uniforms, all the cameras, the overweight people, the cruise ship decor, the exterior festoonery, the 10-floor parking garages, the boring restaurants, the false excitement.
March 13, 200916 yr The sound of the machines, the bad live music, the cheesy uniforms, all the cameras, the overweight people, the cruise ship decor, the exterior festoonery, the 10-floor parking garages, the boring restaurants, the false excitement. I agree, every one of those things does suck, except the restaurants. I love a big buffet. But I also love the no eateries inside idea. That's a perfect compromise.
March 13, 200916 yr Casino backers boasting about taxes, jobs By Jane Prendergast • [email protected] and Jon Craig • March 13, 2009 DOWNTOWN - A casino on the north edge of downtown would generate more than $7 million a year for Cincinnati, supporters say, and put 1,500 people to work full-time. The Broadway Commons site, at Reading Road and Broadway, is a perfect location because of its proximity to Interstates 71 and 471, said Councilman Jeff Berding, who held a news conference at the location Thursday afternoon to celebrate the news of the pending ballot initiative. The proposal - and the local share of the promised $306 million to be divided annually among 88 counties - already has drawn support and opposition. Berding and council members Leslie Ghiz and Greg Harris support it, as does Hamilton County Commissioner Todd Portune. Others are more cautious, with Councilwoman Roxanne Qualls calling it "intriguing." County Commissioners Greg Hartmann and David Pepper say they welcome any new money, but want to know more about how it will be spent. Gov. Ted Strickland has not supported casinos in the past, and a spokeswoman said this proposal appears to be similar to those he opposed. Full article at http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090313/NEWS01/903130344/1055/NEWS
March 13, 200916 yr Could the soon to be vacant SCPA building have any chance at housing a casino? (I may be off my rocker, being I've never stepped foot in this place and am not familiar with the layout.) Just thinking out loud here! I think Jake is right that a building at BC will look gaudy and out of place. Even though nothing would please me more than to see that sea of asphalt ripped up for something.
March 13, 200916 yr Could the soon to be vacant SCPA building have any chance at housing a casino? (I may be off my rocker, being I've never stepped foot in this place and am not familiar with the layout.) Just thinking out loud here! I think Jake is right that a building at BC will look gaudy and out of place. Even though nothing would please me more than to see that sea of asphalt ripped up for something. Putting a casino into SCPA would require a massive parking garage nearby, and the volume of traffic would not be appropriate for the neighborhood. If it's going to go somewhere, I guess I would rather have it in the urban core, but I don't think it will help OTR at all.
March 13, 200916 yr I listened to 700wlw briefly last night and callers swore to never go to a downtown casino because of the crime. Okay...
March 13, 200916 yr The longer I live within the city, the more it pisses me off when I hear people make such baseless claims.
March 13, 200916 yr These are the same people driving to Detroit to go to Greektown! You guys need to relax and not let the entertainment portion of WLW get to you! People go downtown when it is in their interest. They won't worry about crime when their entertainment choices are downtown.
March 13, 200916 yr You guys need to relax and not let the entertainment portion of WLW get to you! You and I must have different definitions of the word entertainment.
March 13, 200916 yr If this is built in Broadway Commons, it needs to pass some sort of design board.
March 13, 200916 yr DanB is right. Folks haven't stopped going to Reds games, Bengals games, events at the Coliseum, all the street festivals, the fireworks. I don't see why they wouldn't be willing to gamble there as well. Those folks are TW/OB - Talking without a Brain.
March 13, 200916 yr It doesn't have to be gaudy, and besides anything in Broadway Commons would be an improvement!
March 13, 200916 yr ^^They are making a TV show about SCPA and its students. There is a new SCPA - http://www.thenewscpa.org/ - being built right now that will house the full K-12 array of students under one roof with more performance space. The show has already been shot though since it premiers this coming Thursday. Watch the trailer here: http://www.urbancincy.com/2009/03/taking-stage.html
March 15, 200916 yr Crain's sheds a little more light on the Cleveland location: http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20090311/FREE/903119960 Cleveland Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert part of Ohio casino initiative In that case, GO BULLS! GO PACERS! GO PISTONS! GO CELTICS!
March 16, 200916 yr ^Care to elaborate? I am rooting on the Cavs' rivals because their owner favors casinos in Ohio.
March 16, 200916 yr Funny, all of those teams (not sure about Boston) are in states which have legal casino gambling.
March 16, 200916 yr For Broadway commons I would put a 2 million square foot convention center there with an Casino on top. Use the old(new) convention center and convert it to jail.
March 17, 200916 yr Yeah, a jail on 4th and 5th streets, 2 blocks from Fountain Square, and connected to many of the large hotels. Great idea.
March 24, 200916 yr Cordray rejects 1st try at casino petition language Business First of Columbus Backers of a push to build four casinos in Ohio, including one in Columbus, hit a bump in the road Monday when state Attorney General Richard Cordray turned down petition language submitted this month for the proposal. Cordray, in a letter to the committee backing the casino initiative, said the wording in the petition doesn’t constitute a fair and truthful summary of the proposed constitutional amendment. Paperwork arrived at Cordray’s office March 12 for the initiative, which would ask voters to approve building casinos in Cleveland, Cincinnati, Toledo and on the western edge of the Arena District in Columbus. Cordray told the casino committee that the petition’s summary of locations included in the proposal references cities but should be improved to include exact locations. That would assure those signing the petition aren’t misled that the cities have the option of where to place the casinos, Cordray wrote. The state’s top government lawyer also pointed to wording in the petition detailing parameters on taxing gamblers’ winnings. Cordray wrote that the petition’s wording contains a “substantial change” in Ohio law. That law currently dictates that gambling winnings are taxable by the state as ordinary income, but the petition’s language implies winnings wouldn’t be taxable. Bob Tenenbaum, a spokesman for the Ohio Jobs and Growth Committee, which is backing the initiative, said the wording was unintentional and will be corrected. Full article at http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/stories/2009/03/23/daily9.html
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