^That would be my preferred way to get gambling in the state as well, but this way at least Cincinnati can't drag it's feet too much.  If it was just left to the free market, Cincy would probably be getting a casino around 2050 :lol:

That bothers me a bit, but it is better than the past few efforts. I would prefer a change to the constitution that would permit legal casino gambling in Ohio. Period. Then, leave it up to the free market. Doesn't seem like that would be possible any time in the near future, so I can accept this plan.

 

Bingo. Government restrictions restrict the very essence of a true free market. People should be able to spend their money wherever and whenever they want, whether it is at a casino, a brothel, or at a farmer's market.

 

That said, my stance on casinos is the same as it was last year. I strongly support it for economic reasons. Given that Ohio is essentially an island in this, people travel out of state to gamble in West Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Indiana. They stay in hotels, eat at restaurants, partake in recreational opportunities and so forth -- money that is going to other states, not ours.

 

The same can be said for lottery tickets. People travel to Kentucky to gamble on the lottery, and Kentucky benefits when a person wins -- some of the money is used to fund educational programs throughout the state.

 

There are disadvantages, of course. A proportion of the tenants at a casino or lottery ticket users tend to be in the lower-income bracket, and a higher proportion of those that get KEES scholarships -- in-state scholarships for graduating high schoolers, funded through the lottery program, goes towards middle- and higher-income individuals.

 

Nothing is perfect, but the benefits outweigh the negatives.

That bothers me a bit, but it is better than the past few efforts. I would prefer a change to the constitution that would permit legal casino gambling in Ohio. Period. Then, leave it up to the free market. Doesn't seem like that would be possible any time in the near future, so I can accept this plan.

 

Agreed, I too would rather see it allowed anywhere in the state, not just in certain areas per the amendment. I like this plan much better than last years Wilmington plan though.

 

Edale, I'd laugh if what you said if it didn't sound so true. Knowing Cincinnati we'd probably get ready to build a casino then a small special interest group would come in with a misleading charter amendment and con the city out of getting one. :p

There's nothing more fun than being in the casino in the middle of the night when the gang comes in to launder all of their $20 bills!  I hate seeing all that cash leave the state!

Sorry to randomly jump in here, but casinos can lead to nothing but good for the center cities (if they build them in the middle of nowhere, though, my support will not follow). For instance, the Arcade in Dayton would make a great casino, although current revitialization efforts have a really good plan, along with a new structure in the Flats, the Banks might be a good spot, and the arena district in C-Bus, along with other locales.

 

Now if we could just hurry up and legalize prostitution, gay marriage, marijuana, cocaine, heroin, and anything else that can be easily taxed heavily already!!!! We need the revenue!!!!!

 

(oh yeah, and get rid of concealed carry. That and crack can't be a good mix)

Sorry to randomly jump in here, but casinos can lead to nothing but good for the center cities (if they build them in the middle of nowhere, though, my support will not follow). For instance, the Arcade in Dayton would make a great casino, although current revitialization efforts have a really good plan, along with a new structure in the Flats, the Banks might be a good spot, and the arena district in C-Bus, along with other locales.

 

Now if we could just hurry up and legalize prostitution, gay marriage, marijuana, cocaine, heroin, and anything else that can be easily taxed heavily already!!!! We need the revenue!!!!!

 

(oh yeah, and get rid of concealed carry. That and crack can't be a good mix)

 

You started strong enough, and then progressed into some of the worst ideas ever.

Sorry to randomly jump in here, but casinos can lead to nothing but good for the center cities.

I think casinos can lead to plenty but good for the cities that get them. In fact I don't think many people deny that some problems will come with gambling. The question is whether the benefits will outweigh the costs.

 

Now if we could just hurry up and legalize prostitution, [glow=red,2,300]gay marriage[/glow], marijuana, cocaine, heroin, and anything else that can be easily taxed heavily already!!!! We need the revenue!!!!!

How exactly would you heavily tax gay marriage?

Why can't we put the licenses up for bid, though?  Instead we're looking to pass a law to give a specific owner the privilege at a cut rate price.  It surprises me that this aspect doesn't bother more people. 

 

That is my biggest problem with this as well, and I too have been confused as to why it seemingly gets almost no attention here.

Casinos are not a panacea of economic development for the most part.  However, all of these FOOLS who vote down casino proposals...in whatever form...are BLIND to the real issue.  If you don't build them, millions and millions and millions and millions and millions of OHIO dollars go to other states.  Love em or hate em, you CANNOT escape that fact. If you oppose casinos, figure out a way to stop this massive hemmorage of money out of the state, and I will listen.  Until then..... let the building begin.

Why must people either be a) untenability rude and confrontational and b) abrasive with their characterization of others?

No, the economic impact of this is only worth it f it draws in others and shifts money from one locality to another but if state after state get this - it's benefits will be limited.

All new businesses and jobs help the economy. 

People are going to gamble and spend money where ever possible.  The advantage of a casino in Cleveland is probably greater than Cincinnati due to the fact that Lawrenceburg is so close.  A casino in Cleveland which permits people to gamble without the 2 hour drive will keep a lot of gambling money in the state.

 

A casino in downtown Cincinnati will certainly prevent some money from leaving the state, but many may choose to still go to Indiana, which is only a 15-20 minute drive from the west side.  I'm sure I would try the new ones, but as any other business, they need to give me a good reason to change my preferences.

People are going to gamble and spend money where ever possible. The advantage of a casino in Cleveland is probably greater than Cincinnati due to the fact that Lawrenceburg is so close. A casino in Cleveland which permits people to gamble without the 2 hour drive will keep a lot of gambling money in the state.

 

A casino in downtown Cincinnati will certainly prevent some money from leaving the state, but many may choose to still go to Indiana, which is only a 15-20 minute drive from the west side. I'm sure I would try the new ones, but as any other business, they need to give me a good reason to change my preferences.

Wouldn't the fact that the taxes stay in our own state be a good reason?

Yeah, really.  It's all about keeping money in the state.  If you got a casino IN THE STATE, why go elsewhere? 

Do all of you spend ALL your money within Ohio?  No mail order, no vacations, etc?  Anyone go to Kentucky for anything?

Do all of you spend ALL your money within Ohio?  No mail order, no vacations, etc? 

No, I don't spend all my money in Ohio, but given a choice of a business in the state I live in, and an equivelent in another state, I'll choose the one in my state. If for no other reason, the one in state is generally closer.

Anyone go to Kentucky for anything?

No.

As I said in my previous post, if they want my business they will give me a reason not to go to Indiana.  If they are only equivalent, I may or may not go. 

 

If you lived in Cincinnati, you would spend some dollars in Kentucky.

Casinos are not a panacea of economic development for the most part. However, all of these FOOLS who vote down casino proposals...in whatever form...are BLIND to the real issue. If you don't build them, millions and millions and millions and millions and millions of OHIO dollars go to other states. Love em or hate em, you CANNOT escape that fact. If you oppose casinos, figure out a way to stop this massive hemmorage of money out of the state, and I will listen. Until then..... let the building begin.

 

Perfect response.

 

Casinos=bad situation

Casinos in neighboring states=an even worse situation

I can think of no reason that the government should use its power to ban gambling.  If somebody could explain some great social harm caused by this vice, please do.  There is nothing on the scale of the problems created by alcohol, for example. 

 

And, local casinos are climate-conscious

 

Why can't we put the licenses up for bid, though?  Instead we're looking to pass a law to give a specific owner the privilege at a cut rate price.  It surprises me that this aspect doesn't bother more people. 

That's a superb idea!  Concessionaires have to bid to business at public facilities like national parks.  Perhaps we can extend the concept to casinos.

 

Do all of you spend ALL your money within Ohio? No mail order, no vacations, etc? Anyone go to Kentucky for anything?

 

Of course not.  I didn't imply that I did or that people should.  But if there's a Cracker Barrel in Indiana and a Cracker Barrel in Ohio, I'm going to the one in Ohio.  See how easy these concepts are when you're not trying to put words into people's mouths?

You again are missing my point.  I have not put any words in anyones mouth.  I said, I would frequent the new casino in Cincinnati, but like any business, they would have to give me a reason to change.  I am too close to Indiana to change for that reason only.  Then everyone hit me with spending my money in Ohio instead.  We aren't talking about 2 identical Cracker Barrels, or Home Depots, or Skyline Chilis.  We are talking about customer service at different business which happen to sell the same things.

 

You should pay attention to MayDay's advice.

^If the casino in IN is a comparable distance for you, than I can understand why you have the opinion you do.

Thank you!

I'm not a casino connoisseur by any stretch, but it seems to me that an Indiana casino and an Ohio casino would offer the same things.  You walk in, spend a couple hours losing money and throwing back watered down drinks until you realize you're gonna need gas money for the trip home.

 

Am I missing something?

McDonalds and Jeff Ruby's both sell beef.

Thank God they're both in Ohio.

Now if we could just hurry up and legalize prostitution, [glow=red,2,300]gay marriage[/glow], marijuana, cocaine, heroin, and anything else that can be easily taxed heavily already!!!! We need the revenue!!!!!

How exactly would you heavily tax gay marriage?

 

 

Yeah, I kinda forgot to put that in its own little section. My bad!!!!!

I have mixed feelings on the casinos.

 

I think casinos will be good for the Ohio economy. It will bring jobs and much needed tax revenue into the state, counties and cities. However, I do think it needs to be competitive so that the state gets a better deal out of it. Other states are getting 400 -500 million per casino license, where ohio will only get 50 million. Also, the tax kick back is low at 33%, where other states are getting upwards to 67%.

 

I do like that each city will get one casino. I think this will make it more of a destination that will add to a city. If more than one were built per city I feel it would be detrimental to the city image. The city would become a gambling destination first, instead of a great city with gambling used as another form of attraction. I want people to visit a city because of the city, not because it has a casino.

 

I also like that the Cincinnati casino will not have a hotel. I don't know if every casino is planned to be like this, but it will make people get out into the city more instead of staying exclusively inside the walls of the casino.

 

I agree that these casinos will do a lot of good for Ohio, but I just think the casino owners are getting the better part of the deal. I don't know if I will vote for it or against it as of right now, I just think Ohio can do better and make more money off of it.

I think casinos are basically better than nothing. I see money and tax revenue flee to Detroit and Windsor, and basically think we might as well keep it in Ohio. It makes no sense for us to demonize it while surrounding states profit from it.

 

Fast forward 20 years.  The state continues to lose population, jobs, manufacturing, etc.  What are our politicians going to blame then?  What will they turn to?  The drinking age in Canada?

 

I say lets be an island.  While the politicians in other states take the easy way out, let's focus our energy on a competitive tax structure to attract high tech business here.

I think casinos are basically better than nothing. I see money and tax revenue flee to Detroit and Windsor, and basically think we might as well keep it in Ohio. It makes no sense for us to demonize it while surrounding states profit from it.

 

Fast forward 20 years.  The state continues to lose population, jobs, manufacturing, etc.  What are our politicians going to blame then?  What will they turn to?  The drinking age in Canada?

 

I say lets be an island.  While the politicians in other states take the easy way out, let's focus our energy on a competitive tax structure to attract high tech business here.

 

Here, here. We need jobs that produce real economic value. Not simply jobs that keep us from being a net loser to low-tech neighboring states.

 

My position - casinos are, in my view, exactly like any other hospitality business - restaurants and hotels mainly - a subsistence business that employs people at relatively low income levels in low-tech and non-technical work.

 

As already noted, casinos have a 0 complementary effect upon the complexion of the neighboring area. Aesthetically they are usually hideous and they don't add to the visual appeal of the area. They bring in consumers (fleshy mobile consuming pods, that's us!) for specific gambling visits, who don't tend to spend money at neighboring businesses.  In place of a casino, think "self contained restaurant complex+hotel". BFD. People sleep and eat there and spend a little money.

 

Hospitality is not where economic value is created anyway.

 

Not to pick on C-Dawg only, but the rationale he stated above sounds like "subsistence mentality". Casinos are "better than nothing." That just sounds sad.

 

IMO - if you can't support a family on the average jobs created by a development, and the profits just go to stockholders and rich b*stards and corporate entities who have majority ownership of the casino - then the jobs created (whatever they are) are not worth a lot of effort to attract.

 

This is all in addition to the negative social effects of pandering to gambling addiction.

 

Maybe the state could profit from franchising gambling licenses but IMO it's not a net plus for Ohio in the long run. It just creates some poverty level jobs for some people and enriches a very few, but exacts a regressive tax on the "users."

I'm not following this rationale that the electorate voting to allow casinos within the state is somehow excluding our elected officials to work towards tax/business friendly reforms (whatever the hell that is, all I know is apparently no one has done anything about it for 20+ years).

 

To address the topic itself, of course it will help the economy.  How can millions of dollars ending up in our hands instead of those in Indianapolis, Frankfort, Charleston, Harrisburg, Albany, Toronto, and Lansing not help?

The casinos aren't needed for the purpose of providing jobs or improving the area.  They are needed to stop the flow of money out of the state.  The "users" are already paying this regressive tax, they are just paying it to states other than Ohio. 

 

I really don't understand why this is not understood.

My opinion is that this state needs much better and much broader economic development ideas than subsidizing bread and circuses that contribute nothing to the arts or to improving people's lives. (IE, bread and circuses is fine to an extent but there's no "art" to a casino.)

 

My opinion is that casino legislation itself is a distraction from more valuable forms of economic development, like green energy, biotech and high tech. The voters' attention is dissipated by arguments about an economically wasteful, lose-lose activity (gambling.)

 

Perhaps a win-win in this vein would be to use the casino license fees to fund economic incentives to locate high-value-job producing industries to Ohio.

How exactly will the state be subsidizing casinos?  I see it as little effort on the part of the state.  All they have to do is collect the revenue.

I'm in agreement with the "keep money from leaving the state" argument. However, I think this proposal could be better. More of a free market approach as has been mentioned. I don't like the casino for Toledo either. I think Columbus's would do the best, because it will be in the thriving Arena District, and will encounter the least amount of competition. Maybe they can integrate it with the new convention center hotel... Personally, I'd like to see the Columbus casino site used for a new Crew stadium. As long as it integrates with what's there already, instead of being a typical casino, I guess I'd be fine with it.

 

As for "green tech"... Ohio isn't really the greatest for that. Wind and solar wouldn't really work here. I do think we need to invest in fiber optic networks though. That would be a boon to further high tech development.

I think casinos are basically better than nothing. I see money and tax revenue flee to Detroit and Windsor, and basically think we might as well keep it in Ohio. It makes no sense for us to demonize it while surrounding states profit from it.

 

Fast forward 20 years.  The state continues to lose population, jobs, manufacturing, etc.  What are our politicians going to blame then?  What will they turn to?  The drinking age in Canada?

 

I say lets be an island.  While the politicians in other states take the easy way out, let's focus our energy on a competitive tax structure to attract high tech business here.

 

Here, here. We need jobs that produce real economic value. Not simply jobs that keep us from being a net loser to low-tech neighboring states.

 

My position - casinos are, in my view, exactly like any other hospitality business - restaurants and hotels mainly - a subsistence business that employs people at relatively low income levels in low-tech and non-technical work.

 

As already noted, casinos have a 0 complementary effect upon the complexion of the neighboring area. Aesthetically they are usually hideous and they don't add to the visual appeal of the area. They bring in consumers (fleshy mobile consuming pods, that's us!) for specific gambling visits, who don't tend to spend money at neighboring businesses.  In place of a casino, think "self contained restaurant complex+hotel". BFD. People sleep and eat there and spend a little money.

 

Hospitality is not where economic value is created anyway.

 

Not to pick on C-Dawg only, but the rationale he stated above sounds like "subsistence mentality". Casinos are "better than nothing." That just sounds sad.

 

IMO - if you can't support a family on the average jobs created by a development, and the profits just go to stockholders and rich b*stards and corporate entities who have majority ownership of the casino - then the jobs created (whatever they are) are not worth a lot of effort to attract.

 

This is all in addition to the negative social effects of pandering to gambling addiction.

 

Maybe the state could profit from franchising gambling licenses but IMO it's not a net plus for Ohio in the long run. It just creates some poverty level jobs for some people and enriches a very few, but exacts a regressive tax on the "users."

 

I agree that Ohio should focus its energy on "high tech" jobs (which in Indiana at least have included customer service reps who use computers--no kidding), but fact is that Ohioans have a range of skills and education levels, some of whom fall on the very low end. Those folks need jobs too, and the state government needs to make sure there is a balance. Casino jobs are relatively stable, and provide decent incomes to people whose prospects cluster on McDonald's. I would wager that the unemployment levels for low-skill workers is significantly higher than high-skill. Casinos are certainly not "the answer" to Ohio's economic malaise, but it can't hurt if the tax dollars now heading to Indy and Lansing stay here. 

Sorry to randomly jump in here, but casinos can lead to nothing but good for the center cities (if they build them in the middle of nowhere, though, my support will not follow). For instance, the Arcade in Dayton would make a great casino, although current revitialization efforts have a really good plan, along with a new structure in the Flats, the Banks might be a good spot, and the arena district in C-Bus, along with other locales.

 

Now if we could just hurry up and legalize prostitution, gay marriage, marijuana, cocaine, heroin, and anything else that can be easily taxed heavily already!!!! We need the revenue!!!!!

 

(oh yeah, and get rid of concealed carry. That and crack can't be a good mix)

 

Yeah, good work there classifying gay marriage along with drug addiction! Maybe next we can spend some tax $$ on Christiany rehab centers for GLBTs?

Ohio is too late in the game. Gambling is decreasing not increasing.

I'm in agreement with the "keep money from leaving the state" argument. However, I think this proposal could be better. More of a free market approach as has been mentioned. I don't like the casino for Toledo either. I think Columbus's would do the best, because it will be in the thriving Arena District, and will encounter the least amount of competition. Maybe they can integrate it with the new convention center hotel... Personally, I'd like to see the Columbus casino site used for a new Crew stadium. As long as it integrates with what's there already, instead of being a typical casino, I guess I'd be fine with it.

 

As for "green tech"... Ohio isn't really the greatest for that. Wind and solar wouldn't really work here. I do think we need to invest in fiber optic networks though. That would be a boon to further high tech development.

 

Please provide backup.  thanks.

Ohio is too late in the game. Gambling is decreasing not increasing.

 

thats because gambling is an economy driven industry.  mainly a a leisure industry.

 

When the economy is good, there is more disposable spending.  When bad, we shut up shop.  Hence why places like Florida (orlando, miami, s. florida), Las Vegas, Atlantic city, New Orleans, etc, which have tourist based economies are hurting right now.  Its a wave affect for those areas.  However, it wont stay that way.  the playing field is close to being leveled right now and if ohio cities build major casinos in their downtowns, like NoLa it could work. 

there is still an enormous amount of manufacturing occurring in this country. Cleveland is not aggressively grabbing its share,

there is still an enormous amount of manufacturing occurring in this country. Cleveland is not aggressively grabbing its share,

excuse me?

 

details?

 

If you're going to make a statement like that, please provide backup.

there is still an enormous amount of manufacturing occurring in this country. Cleveland is not aggressively grabbing its share,

 

whether or not that is true, IT HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH CASINOS!!!

Sorry to randomly jump in here, but casinos can lead to nothing but good for the center cities (if they build them in the middle of nowhere, though, my support will not follow). For instance, the Arcade in Dayton would make a great casino, although current revitialization efforts have a really good plan, along with a new structure in the Flats, the Banks might be a good spot, and the arena district in C-Bus, along with other locales.

 

Now if we could just hurry up and legalize prostitution, gay marriage, marijuana, cocaine, heroin, and anything else that can be easily taxed heavily already!!!! We need the revenue!!!!!

 

(oh yeah, and get rid of concealed carry. That and crack can't be a good mix)

 

Yeah, good work there classifying gay marriage along with drug addiction! Maybe next we can spend some tax $$ on Christiany rehab centers for GLBTs?

 

Sorry about my sloppy post above (forgot to delete a

when paraphrasing my OP on this thread), but I needed to put gay marriage in its own category. I simply stated that because legalizing it may make our state more of a "destination", like Massachusettes is, and would bring tax revenue (and prosperity) with it. The subject really has nothing in common with the original topic or the rest of my post.

there is still an enormous amount of manufacturing occurring in this country. Cleveland is not aggressively grabbing its share,

 

whether or not that is true, IT HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH CASINOS!!!

 

Ok, this verges on another facet to the Ohio gambling debate: the saturation of voters' consciousness with an economic initiative of relatively minor impact on the state's welfare as a whole.

 

In other words, US voters seem to be "saturated" by single issues like health care. Or this local/state issue. It crowds out more important choices.

 

Decades ago - 1950s, 60s and 70s - Ohio was king of manufacturing. Ohio had what you could term a manufacturing and R&D culture. We designed and built things here, it was almost Ohio's identity. And we were among the foremost industrial states in the US.

 

Look at us today. Ohio is an exemplar of the rust belt economy looking backward at better times.

 

So we have to build a better future. That sort of thing isn't even being discussed.

 

Instead we have the chickensh*t distraction of allowing casino gambling or not.

 

Westerninterloper:

 

I agree that Ohio should focus its energy on "high tech" jobs (which in Indiana at least have included customer service reps who use computers--no kidding), but fact is that Ohioans have a range of skills and education levels, some of whom fall on the very low end. Those folks need jobs too, and the state government needs to make sure there is a balance.

 

I completely agree. And that is exactly the role that manufacturing filled for decades - providing high-value employment to low-end or non-specialized workers.

 

There is a lot of grunt-work in high tech. It's not all rocket science. Someone has to assemble high tech components, run tests, run manufacturing equipment, clean, inspect, etc.

 

So the choice is really: a "generic" unskilled person works in fast food or service (IE, casino jobs, or the existing service sector) for <$10/hr with no benefits, or he/she works in manufacturing for $15/hr and up with benefits.

 

So maybe I'll amend my original response: I am not exactly for or against casino gambling. Yeah, it could employ some low end people, yeah, it could bring in tax $$.

 

But attaching great importance to it seems to be a sign of fairly pathetic economic development efforts. It leads to nowhere better economically except a bit more revenue for the state to waste as it sees fit.

Do you people honestly think that the city leaders aren't actively trying to peruse high tech jobs? Like Your posts are some sort of revelation? People read it the and the magic job fairy swoops down to deliver 'green' jobs to Cleveland? The casino's are not the solution to our economic woes, they're not designed to be.... they're not going to relieve us from our 'rust-belt' status but they can stop 10's of millions of OHIO gaming dollars from leaving the state, help fund our failing schools and employ thousands of people in the process. Period.

Do you people honestly think that the city leaders aren't actively trying to peruse high tech jobs? Like Your posts are some sort of revelation? ...

 

The initial post for this thread asked for what we "think/feel." I gave that. I don't give a crap if they are a revelation or not. Just as legitimate as any other expression here.

 

Anyway, you just used the word "leader" in the perfect context: leadership. As in, where is the leadership? Certainly not in Ohio in economic terms. Why are we even discussing gambling as an alternative? Let's do it, fine. Get it over with.

 

The "magic job fairy" as you say starts with real leadership. Not endorsing some quick buck BS. Which is what casinos really are.

Nobody is discussing casinos as an alternative to anything!

This isn't the 50, 60 or 70s.  Ohio has moved away from being the king of manufacturing and has diversified it's pool of industries.

 

Can we move on?