If you accept mediocrity, that fine. I have higher standards. These Casino's are a downgrade from the Indiana ones

 

So now you can see into the future?  What concrete casino plan have you been privileged to review?  What gaming/casino qualifications do you have to make a statement like that?  What previous analyst coverage have you provided. 

 

You continue to make statements but have provided no analysis or comparisons, let alone profit and loss information.

 

Honey, I'm gay and in a high tax bracket.  I have high standards!

The designs mean NOTHING when the laws says you can't stay open 24 hours, no free drinks and no smoking. IF i was the casino developer and have to pay the 50 million dollar gaming fee. I would be royally pissed at them tell them how to run their business.

Unusualfire it sounds like the only casinos you want are rural ones.  That's fine.  Keep going to Indiana.  But not everyone in Ohio lives in a border town, and putting them where our population resides seems prudent.  As for all the behavioral restrictions Ohio is putting on its casinos... I'm with you there.  They should be open 24 hours, serve drinks 24 hours, and allow smoking on at least one floor. 

The people approved this gaming bill. Now legislation is making changes to it. The closing at 2:30 am is what really did me end. I didn't vote for that. And if you Clevelanders don't mind it. That's ok. But us Cincinnatians do, since we have had 3 casino's  for over 10 years just 20 minutes away.

 

Rising sun, Vevay and Lawrenceburg,In are jumping for joy now.

It would be nice to have a place to roll into after the bars close, but I think 'ghetto' casino might be taking it too far. Where are we getting all these regulations from anyway? I didnt see anything online

Where did u see they must close at 230am? All i ve read is that they cant serve booze after 230am?

I'm not exactly sure what the big deal is here.  Essentially the casinos were told that they have to follow the same laws as everyone else.  You want to see the casino's destroy the businesses around them?  Allow free drinks and smoking.  That will be fair to the business down the street.  Regardless about how you feel about smoking, free drinks would be the worst thing that could possibly happen here.  Other bars and restaurants could simply never compete with something like that.

 

P.S.  The casinos as I understand it can stay open 24 hours and you can gamble to your hearts content.  They just have to stop serving alcohol at 2:30am... same as everybody else.

http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/local_news/ohio-lawmakers-pass-bill-setting-casino-rules

 

Under the legislation, the casinos scheduled to open in 2012 and 2013 will have an entry age of 21, rules against free drinks and smoking and closing times of 2:30 a.m. like bars.

I believe they got that wrong unless there was a serious and odd change.  For the past couple weeks they have been saying that the two sides bills were the same on many fronts, and only had a few differences.  One of the "agreed" terms I read in several locations was that Casinos would have to stop serving alcohol between 2:30am and 5:30am, it never mentioned anything about the casinos closing.  That would seem an odd thing to change seeing as they were in agreement on it.  This wouldn't be the first time a news station erroneously reported something.

 

at any rate, here is one of the many articles stating this:

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20100526/BIZ01/5270342/

 

"The two bills are the same on many points, including not letting casinos serve alcohol between 2:30 and 5:30 a.m.; not allowing casinos to serve free alcohol to some customers; not allowing anyone under 21 to gamble; and not permitting any exemptions to Ohio's no smoking law."

 

 

http://www.tobacco-facts.net/2010/05/rules-for-ohio-casinos-no-smoking-no-alcohol-after-230-a-m

 

"In Ohio, gamblers will be at least 21. They’ll have their choice of as many gaming tables as the owners choose to fit into the casinos, which could be open around the clock. Or they can try their luck at one of up to 5,000 slot machines. And there figures to be plenty of restaurants nearby and eventually hotels.

 

But unlike in Vegas, smokers will have to step outside to light up. And if they enjoy sipping alcoholic drinks, they’ll have to get those in before 2:30 a.m., when, like the rest of the state’s liquor-serving establishments, the casinos will run dry for the night."

 

 

http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/local_news/ohio-lawmakers-pass-bill-setting-casino-rules

 

Under the legislation, the casinos scheduled to open in 2012 and 2013 will have an entry age of 21, rules against free drinks and smoking and closing times of 2:30 a.m. like bars.

 

I think that the hours of operation information is correct.

Politics are something else.

As much as free booze 24/7 would be sweet, it would be a death blow to rejuvenating DT. And I have to believe that that is some misinformation about closing at 230am as I think we would have heard more about this prior to the deadline, outside of the smoking, free booze, opening in phases and 24 hr bar issues that the media has been fixated on. Plus as I read that line, unclear it is, but I can see that just saying the casino bar would close just like a normal bar, not as in the CASINO will close like a bar

The 24-hour issue is separate from the free booze issue.  I'm OK with banning free booze to protect existing establishments.  But 2:30 is a problem.

Well the casinos will be open 24 hours.  Personally I think if you can't make it between 2:30 and 5:30 without a drink you have a problem.  Order a double at last call.

I hope it's a misprint. Or that's a TON of revenue lost for the casino.

I'm not exactly sure what the big deal is here.  Essentially the casinos were told that they have to follow the same laws as everyone else.  You want to see the casino's destroy the businesses around them?  Allow free drinks and smoking.  That will be fair to the business down the street.  Regardless about how you feel about smoking, free drinks would be the worst thing that could possibly happen here.  Other bars and restaurants could simply never compete with something like that.

 

It's this type of zero-sum thinking that is killing this state.  We can grow the pie and everyone will benefit.  We're not allowing these casinos to compete with casinos from out-of-state, which guarantees that most of the business is going to be local.  If anything, that will cause the casinos to cannibalize other local entertainment options.

Well the casinos will be open 24 hours.  Personally I think if you can't make it between 2:30 and 5:30 without a drink you have a problem.  Order a double at last call.

 

Thanks for the advice, dad! 

 

In other states, not only do they stop serving at a certain time, but they also send around the servers to collect the drinks.  So ordering a double and nursing it won't work. 

I'm not exactly sure what the big deal is here. Essentially the casinos were told that they have to follow the same laws as everyone else. You want to see the casino's destroy the businesses around them? Allow free drinks and smoking. That will be fair to the business down the street. Regardless about how you feel about smoking, free drinks would be the worst thing that could possibly happen here. Other bars and restaurants could simply never compete with something like that.

 

It's this type of zero-sum thinking that is killing this state. We can grow the pie and everyone will benefit. We're not allowing these casinos to compete with casinos from out-of-state, which guarantees that most of the business is going to be local. If anything, that will cause the casinos to cannibalize other local entertainment options.

 

What are you talking about? The casinos have to abide by the same laws everyone else does. We voted for casinos, not to change the state's liqour laws.

For urbans centers:

 

- open 24hrs

- no smoking

- no free drinks

- No drinking 2:30 am - 5:30 am (state liquor laws)

 

 

This to me sounds like the best way to regulate and improve downtown at the same time. 

I'm not exactly sure what the big deal is here. Essentially the casinos were told that they have to follow the same laws as everyone else. You want to see the casino's destroy the businesses around them? Allow free drinks and smoking. That will be fair to the business down the street. Regardless about how you feel about smoking, free drinks would be the worst thing that could possibly happen here. Other bars and restaurants could simply never compete with something like that.

 

It's this type of zero-sum thinking that is killing this state. We can grow the pie and everyone will benefit. We're not allowing these casinos to compete with casinos from out-of-state, which guarantees that most of the business is going to be local. If anything, that will cause the casinos to cannibalize other local entertainment options.

 

What are you talking about? The casinos have to abide by the same laws everyone else does. We voted for casinos, not to change the state's liqour laws.

 

The laws should be changed for everyone, but especially for casinos, if we want them to compete on a regional level, and not just a local level.  I feel like we're recycling the same argument from before, but as I said previously, take whatever the casinos in Indiana, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Michigan are allowed to do, and let our casinos go one step further.  Otherwise, most of our casino traffic will only be from local residents, and these casinos will be taking business from other local establishments.  It's pretty simple to understand.

I'm not exactly sure what the big deal is here.  Essentially the casinos were told that they have to follow the same laws as everyone else.  You want to see the casino's destroy the businesses around them?  Allow free drinks and smoking.  That will be fair to the business down the street.  Regardless about how you feel about smoking, free drinks would be the worst thing that could possibly happen here.  Other bars and restaurants could simply never compete with something like that.

 

It's this type of zero-sum thinking that is killing this state.  We can grow the pie and everyone will benefit.  We're not allowing these casinos to compete with casinos from out-of-state, which guarantees that most of the business is going to be local.  If anything, that will cause the casinos to cannibalize other local entertainment options.

 

What are you talking about? The casinos have to abide by the same laws everyone else does. We voted for casinos, not to change the state's liqour laws.

 

The laws should be changed for everyone, but especially for casinos, if we want them to compete on a regional level, and not just a local level.  I feel like we're recycling the same argument from before, but as I said previously, take whatever the casinos in Indiana, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Michigan are allowed to do, and let our casinos go one step further.  Otherwise, most of our casino traffic will only be from local residents, and these casinos will be taking business from other local establishments.  It's pretty simple to understand.

 

When every state within an 8 hour drive has casinos, like is soon to happen, you are correct.  The traffic will be mostly local.  It's a tax on the poor of our state. No glitz and glamour here--only politicians taking the easy way out, trying to market Cleveland against a race track at a freeway exit in Erie. 

 

Think I'm wrong?  Check the gaming industry revenues of the last 5 years.  Too little, too late.

 

Cleveland should have opened a casino in the Powerhouse when the Flats were booming and a legitimate destination.  The Bourbon St of the North.  Game on--let's hire another 500 cops and make sure everyone stays safe.  Alas, never happened...

While I'm glad this passed, I agree with most of the naysayers here.  Too little too late.  We missed the boat in the 90s.  Revenue projections for these are likely way off.  That said, it had to be done.  And if Ohio were to liberalize its liquor laws as well, we would become that much more competitive in attracting businesses and residents.

^Exactly!

 

(Speaking for the Cleveland Casino) Of course it's not going to be drawing millions of customers from hundreds of miles away. It's just like the proposed aquarium, or any other attraction downtown; we're nowhere near the first to get one and we're probably not the last either. I hate to say it, but it's like the RRHOF; while its a great attraction people aren't flying in for JUST that.

 

It can be the part of a series of attractions that when marketed together makes this place a great place to visit. We have a beautiful lake and park systems, a great history museum, a great art museum, an up and coming urban university (CSU), a beautiful old established university (CWRU), some of the world's best hospitals, a great zoo, RRHOF, and I'm sure many other things I'm forgetting. What's wrong with adding a casino to the list?

 

It might not draw people here, but it might give people a reason to stay an extra day. Expecting anything further is unrealistic.

Too little too late. We missed the boat in the 90s. Revenue projections for these are likely way off.

Yep I'm sure the revenue wont be as good as what we were told before the election... but why would anyone buy a rather expensive casino permit and pay to build a new casino from the ground up if they weren't absolutely convinced they were going to make money?

Too little, too late should be our new state motto. :(

Too little, too late should be our new state motto. :(

 

 

You are right Ohio does not have casino's. But Indiana does.

 

umm, err, lets just say ohio has had no legal casinos yet and leave it at that.

 

Well people are mad for gambling and if they are ready to gamble their money away with the same madness...than it will be good for the State's Economy.

Well that justs suck. They stopped construction and both the Cincinnati and Cleveland sites.

Isn't it interesting to watch grown men play games like this.

Let's focus this discussion about the taxes/stoppage in the casino thread located in the political subforum. We don't need to have multiple parallel discussions on the same topic.

Video

 

http://www.wkyc.com/news/article/189658/3/Exec-explains-Cleveland-casino-construction-shutdown

 

Exec explains Cleveland casino construction shutdown

http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/kasich-announces-casino-agreement

 

Now i just hope the project is still not downsized.

-If there is a better thread for this please move it I attempted a quick search.

 

Hard Rock to unveil plans for Northfield Park slots-only casino

 

NORTHFIELD, Ohio - Two weeks after announcing its partnership with Northfield Park to operate a slots-only racino at the harness racing track, officials from Hard Rock International will unveil their plans for the 115-acre site in northern Summit County.

 

Northfield Park owner Milstein Entertainment partnered with Hard Rock to build and operate the $275 million gaming and entertainment center.

 

......................

 

The facility will be built adjacent to the existing grandstand and include a Hard Rock Café, premium steakhouse and generate around 1,000 permanent jobs and around 1,000 construction jobs.

 

Milstein said a hotel is not planned in the first phase of construction but does factor into Northfield’s long-term plans.

 

 

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/oh_summit/hard-rock-to-unveil-plans-for-northfield-park-slots-only-casino

So is the Hard Rock Cafe in Tower City moving?!?!

So is the Hard Rock Cafe in Tower City moving?!?!

 

No, Hard Rock is just opening another venue in Northfield. Honestly I'd think it would be stupid of them to leave TC at this point if that were part of the plan. LOL.

I remember hearing their lease is ending soon and then they will evaluate whether or not they want to stay.

-If there is a better thread for this please move it I attempted a quick search.

 

Hard Rock to unveil plans for Northfield Park slots-only casino

 

NORTHFIELD, Ohio - Two weeks after announcing its partnership with Northfield Park to operate a slots-only racino at the harness racing track, officials from Hard Rock International will unveil their plans for the 115-acre site in northern Summit County.

 

Northfield Park owner Milstein Entertainment partnered with Hard Rock to build and operate the $275 million gaming and entertainment center.

 

......................

 

The facility will be built adjacent to the existing grandstand and include a Hard Rock Café, premium steakhouse and generate around 1,000 permanent jobs and around 1,000 construction jobs.

 

Milstein said a hotel is not planned in the first phase of construction but does factor into Northfield’s long-term plans.

 

 

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/oh_summit/hard-rock-to-unveil-plans-for-northfield-park-slots-only-casino

 

IMO this is absolutely bad news for the Horseshoe.  Will definitely cut into their traffic.

I agree, we're stretching the market way too thin.

You guys can predict this already?  How do you know that the Downtown Casino will be so successful and unique that people or the project number of people wont visit?

 

I'm not saying that it wont hurt the downtown Casino, but once again, people can identify negative immediately, but not look outside the box.

 

I'm not saying it can't still succeed, but I am saying that the thinner we "spread the peanut butter", the less of a unique draw it can be.

I'm not saying it can't still succeed, but I am saying that the thinner we "spread the peanut butter", the less of a unique draw it can be.

 

I get what you're saying. I think maybe for people who are strictly gamblers or just do it lesurely and don't want to go all the way downtown this will cut a bit into the bottom line. For people who want to do more, or want some of the 'big City' atmosphere or are coming from the west side Northfield will be a non factor.

 

From my personal persepctive I'd probably go there to check it out once, maybe twice. Other than that I'd be downtown.

Playing the slots at Northfield would be like playing slots at the Las Vegas Airport!

You guys can predict this already?  How do you know that the Downtown Casino will be so successful and unique that people or the project number of people wont visit?

 

I'm not saying that it wont hurt the downtown Casino, but once again, people can identify negative immediately, but not look outside the box.

 

 

Take a drive to Presque Isle tomorrow.  You'll see what I mean.

-If there is a better thread for this please move it I attempted a quick search.

 

Hard Rock to unveil plans for Northfield Park slots-only casino

 

NORTHFIELD, Ohio - Two weeks after announcing its partnership with Northfield Park to operate a slots-only racino at the harness racing track, officials from Hard Rock International will unveil their plans for the 115-acre site in northern Summit County.

 

Northfield Park owner Milstein Entertainment partnered with Hard Rock to build and operate the $275 million gaming and entertainment center.

 

......................

 

The facility will be built adjacent to the existing grandstand and include a Hard Rock Café, premium steakhouse and generate around 1,000 permanent jobs and around 1,000 construction jobs.

 

Milstein said a hotel is not planned in the first phase of construction but does factor into Northfields long-term plans.

 

 

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/oh_summit/hard-rock-to-unveil-plans-for-northfield-park-slots-only-casino

 

IMO this is absolutely bad news for the Horseshoe.  Will definitely cut into their traffic.

Typical negative Cleveland thinking. You have absolutely no facts to back this up at all, pure speculation on you alone, PERIOD! The glass is half empty thinking is a huge problem for Cleveland and you're leading the pack!

^They did say "IMO" so it's not as though they're putting their comments out as fact; something a lot forumers could do a little more of, IMO.

I don't get the pessimism. Hell, I don't think I know anyone who goes to Thistledown (is this even Thistledown), or barely recognizes it beyond the commercials. I guess there's some kind of market,  but the downtown casino is  10x cooler, sexier (just by what i've seen walking outside), and all hyped up on a regional and national level. it's like worrying that geauga lake (now there's a heartbreaker - god i miss that place. Between that, video arcades, blockbusters and dairy queen all virtually extinct,  where do teens go for fun in Cleve anyhow) would caniballize cedar point's biz.

 

But don't forget to tie-in all the discussions about parking downtown. 

 

Yes, I did OFFER MY OPINION on a new casino in Northfield.  But, IMO, it is based on factual observations of casinos elsewhere.

 

The vast majority of casino patrons, especially in the midwest, are over 50, white and female.  They want seas of endless parking and ease of access.  There is no glitz or glamor about it--they are going to chain smoke cigarettes and put quarters in the slots.  (For this reason the native casinos of western NY will continue to hold the edge on Cleveland's non-smoking environs).

 

Downtown will offer a different experience, but you better bet Dan Gilbert doesn't want the slots at Northfield.  That is not being negative about Cleveland, that is thinking rationally with a clear sense of marketing and business plan. 

 

Once again, IMO, a slot casino at Northfield is not good for the Horseshoe.  And IMO, if it opens soon, I SPECULATE it will delay the start of Phase II of the Shoe.

...

Gilbert, already a wealthy businessman, told the state panel that he doesn't want to own a casino in downtown Cleveland merely to further enrich himself but envisions the gaming facility as an economic stimulant for the struggling city.

 

"We're not doing this just to make the owners of the casino wealthier or profitable," he said. "We wanted to make sure that jobs are created, that other businesses are attracted to downtown and that it brings energy and excitement to a downtown that needs it.

 

"If all that comes together then we think we'll do pretty well ourselves," Gilbert said. "But only if we do enough and do it right."

...

http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2012/04/gilbert_shares_his_vision_for.html

...

I have a favorable impression of Dan Gilbert. 

He bought the Cavs for the right reasons, too.

But don't forget to tie-in all the discussions about parking downtown. 

 

Yes, I did OFFER MY OPINION on a new casino in Northfield.  But, IMO, it is based on factual observations of casinos elsewhere.

 

The vast majority of casino patrons, especially in the midwest, are over 50, white and female.  They want seas of endless parking and ease of access.  There is no glitz or glamor about it--they are going to chain smoke cigarettes and put quarters in the slots.  (For this reason the native casinos of western NY will continue to hold the edge on Cleveland's non-smoking environs).

 

Downtown will offer a different experience, but you better bet Dan Gilbert doesn't want the slots at Northfield.  That is not being negative about Cleveland, that is thinking rationally with a clear sense of marketing and business plan. 

 

Once again, IMO, a slot casino at Northfield is not good for the Horseshoe.  And IMO, if it opens soon, I SPECULATE it will delay the start of Phase II of the Shoe.

Smoking is illegal in Ohio.

What the naysayers are forgetting is that you can't just automatically say this is going to hurt Horseshoe. What are you comparing it to? There has NEVER been a casino built in the heart of a city's downtown before. (And Vegas doesn't count because they built their city around their casinos). So how can anyone predict that this is going to hurt Horseshoe?  Based of what? The truth is no one knows what effect this will have on Horseshoe because a casino like Horseshoe has never been done before in America.