June 13, 200619 yr I iust don't get how gambling is the worst of the worst of all the sins out there. To be concern about the one or two welfare queens cashing their checks on $5 slots instead of feeding their children is absurd.There are a lot of normal people who gamble and live to tell about. A few of them are even Catholic. It's called personal choice. It's somehow acceptable for a person to drink and smoke themselves to death or buy enough guns to for each finger or drive like Tony Stewart during rush hour, but gambling is worst than it all, please. And to say Cincy won't benefit in anyway is even more absurd. DT needs a serious kick in the ass. To gloss over the large amount of taxes and even larger amount of jobs generated is short sighted. Gambling is here in one form or another, Cincy can and should reap the benefits.
June 13, 200619 yr In 1984 the lottery was used by The Party to distract the proles from more important matters and self-determinization, in the Autobiography of Malcom X the numbers racket was a hustle that again kept the down-and-outs distracted from social change/disciplined spending/formal education/etc. See also: Professional Sports, Gay Marriage/Gay Rights issues
June 13, 200619 yr I was under the impression that pre-71 and parking lots there was a small park in the area called Broadway Commons, and that's where Tarbell got the name from. But I could be wrong. Maybe I should ask Dan Hurley at the Museum Center. I have an old aerial shot from the 50s-60's and the very northern end of Broadway Commons did have a park, fairly large having four baseball fields on it.
June 13, 200619 yr People from real far away probably won't come to Cincy or Cleveland or Columbus. But Ohioans will. I can't tell you how many charter buses filled with Clevelanders head East to Niagra Falls Canada or West to Detroit for casino trips or how many people head to Mountaineer in WV for the weekend. The money they spend will at least stay in Ohio so I am for it.
June 13, 200619 yr People from real far away probably won't come to Cincy or Cleveland or Columbus. But Ohioans will. I can't tell you how many charter buses filled with Clevelanders head East to Niagra Falls Canada or West to Detroit for casino trips or how many people head to Mountaineer in WV for the weekend. The money they spend will at least stay in Ohio so I am for it. I don't think it is as simple as keeping that money in Ohio. I'm not currently in Cincinnati, so when I am there I might go out of my way to grad a Chip Wheelie from Graeter's, amounting to perhaps ten Chip Wheelies per year. But if I was still living back home, I might feel like treating myself to one per week, which would end up being 52 Chip Wheeles per annum. My sense of limit and reward might be the same in both cases, but proximity leads to (what one might describe as) excess in one instance. I iust don't get how gambling is the worst of the worst of all the sins out there. To be concern about the one or two welfare queens cashing their checks on $5 slots instead of feeding their children is absurd.There are a lot of normal people who gamble and live to tell about. A few of them are even Catholic. It's called personal choice. It's somehow acceptable for a person to drink and smoke themselves to death or buy enough guns to for each finger or drive like Tony Stewart during rush hour, but gambling is worst than it all, please. And to say Cincy won't benefit in anyway is even more absurd. DT needs a serious kick in the ass. To gloss over the large amount of taxes and even larger amount of jobs generated is short sighted. Gambling is here in one form or another, Cincy can and should reap the benefits. I think you are glossing over just how many jobs will be created, just how much tax revenue will increase, and just how much positive change will occur. Name one major city that is not a "gambling destination city" (e.g. Atlantic City, Vegas) that has based their economic rebound on gambling receipts. And after you've done that, find out how much they've rebounded. The reason I'm against this is because I can't think of one. Personal choice is not really what this is all about. There are restrictions on all those activities you just described including age limits, speed limits, insurance requirements, waiting periods, registration requirements etc. Also, there are gambling venues aplenty in Ohio- race tracks, the state lottery, online poker, and so forth. And no one has brought up the idea of sin until you just did. The issue isn't about rights, it's a practical one: will casinos in downtown Cleveland and Cincinnati benefit those cities and the State of Ohio in terms of economic development and funding for education? Additonally, who will be making out more, the casino operators or the State? It's quite clear that the casino operators will be making out more than the State. I'd rather pay a toll to drive on every highway in Ohio to raise money for education than have gambling pay for it. At least in that instance the state is the sole owner and sole beneficiary. Gambling is an attempt by the state to elide its responsibilities, like massive borrowing to pay for current expenditure. It is a way to put the burden of a public good (education) primarily on the backs of those least able to afford it. Moral or immoral, it is simply bad policy.
June 14, 200619 yr > you how many charter buses filled with Clevelanders head East to Niagra Falls Canada or West to Detroit for casino trips or how many people head to Mountaineer in WV for the weekend. The money they spend will at least stay in Ohio so I am for it. ...and shuttle vans take old people from retirement homes all over Cincinnati out to Argosy. I believe Indian reservation casinos were legalized in 1987, shortly after these damn riverboat casinos started appearing. A Supreme Court decision legalized the Indian casinos and the rest of these are sanctioned by states. The whole motivation for the absurd riverboat arrangement was explicitly to gather revenue from bordering states and to control where and how many casinos could be built and operated. Kentucky hasn't legalized casinos because they would compete with horse tracks and therefore hurt the state's world leading race horse industry. And horse (and dog) tracks dot the landscape nationwide because like Poker it's considered a game of skill, not chance. Cincinnati (actually Norwood) is home to US Playing Card but this slots-only casino won't even help it. And this whole bullshit about funding schools is just an absolute joke. I don't have the stat in front of me but in last month's Forbes there was an article where it was something like the poorest 20% buy 80% of state lottery tickets. Why should the poor be subsidizing the middle class's college tuition or public school funding in general? Again, even if the poor on average bet less money per visit to casinos it hurts them much more percentage-wise and if you go to Argosy or Harrah's in New Orleans or the Mississippi casinos less than 50% of the patrons have college degrees and are making over $50K. There's just absolutely no reason why the government should be depending on gambling, lottery or otherwise, for revenue, period. And if, say, 1,000 people visit this Broadway Commons casino per day on average, what percentage will step outside the casino on foot and spend money in the immediate area? I'm guessing 50 at most. People go to casinos, lose $150, get pissed off and go home.
June 14, 200619 yr jmecklenborg, you are bringing up some pretty legitimate points ... What does everyone else think about these comments? jmecklenborg, can you find a more accurate stat on the following statement: "I don't have the stat in front of me but in last month's Forbes there was an article where it was something like the poorest 20% buy 80% of state lottery tickets."
June 14, 200619 yr Tarbell's idea isn't just to have a slot thing there at Broadway Commons, it's to have a destination there, with shows and restaurants and probably hotels and a whole Fancy Night Out thing...a throwback to times when casino's were illegal, but the nightlife was hustling.
June 14, 200619 yr That's not hard to believe...if someone is the type of person that gives in to that kind of compulsive behavior then of course they easily end up being the lowest 20%. They're also the people that don't understand statistics if there's a chance it will work in their favor.
June 14, 200619 yr Gary probably had the best approach to casinos. They turned a disused industrial harbor into a casino district (which is somewhat removed from the main part of the city). The casios didn't revive Gary, but provided money the city used to supplement its capital budget to rebuild streets, curbs, sidewalks and other infrastructure. The city govts. reasoning was that competition and the wearing off of the novelty would mean casinos wouldnt be a big cash cow, so the citys take should not be approached as a source for operating revenue, but for capital expenditures. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ I have yet to see a good example of an American casino in an urban setting. US casinos are usually hotel/casino combinations surrouned by parking (either via lots or structures), and designed to keep you there spending money, not exploring the surrounding neighborhoods (if there even is one). And they are usually pretty shlocky architecturally. As for casinos as an economic development tool, here is some good words question that Easy Money Among the various arguments against gambling is this one Social Welfare Costs Legalized gambling activities act as a regressive tax on the poor (Clotfelter and Cook 1989). Specifically, the legalization of various forms of gambling activities makes "poor people poorer" and can dramatically intensify many pre-existing social-welfare problems. Demographic analyses reveal that certain disadvantaged socioeconomic groups tend to gamble proportionately greater amounts of their overall income and marketing efforts, particularly by state lotteries, have allegedly been directed at these target groups. In a specific example involving casinos, a 1995 Wisconsin report concluded that "[w]ithout considering the social costs of compulsive gambling, the 'rest-of-the-state' areas lose- or, transfer in- $223.94 million to the local gaming areas. Considering the lowest estimated social costs of problem gambling, the rest of... [Wisconsin] loses $318.61 million to gambling" (Thompson, Gazel, and Rickman 1995). This report also concluded that without casino gambling, many local citizens would have increased participation in other "outside" activities. "More than 10% of the locals would spend more on groceries if it were not for the casino, while nearly one-fourth would spend more on clothes. Thirty-seven percent said that their savings had been reduced since the casino had opened ..." (Thompson, Gazel, and Rickman 1995). Of course the libertarian argument is that this should be freedom of choice. People can choose to gamble or not, and if the choice is a bad one for them, it is a character flaw, and not the concern of the state. Or something like that.
June 15, 200618 yr ^Of course the libertarian argument is that this should be freedom of choice. People can choose to gamble or not, and if the choice is a bad one for them, it is a character flaw, and not the concern of the state. Or something like that. Except that people currently have many gambling options, so it's not about freedom of choice. ^Gary probably had the best approach to casinos. They turned a disused industrial harbor into a casino district (which is somewhat removed from the main part of the city). The fact that you used Gary, Indiana as an example should clue you in that your argument isn't going to be universally valid. Anyone who thinks that Cincinnati is in as bad an economic posiition as Gary is being exceptionally and unduly pessimistic. Gary is a one industry town (grew up around the U.S. Steel Works, the town was named for the CEO at the time- Gary is so wholly identified with U.S. Steel that it isn't even the county seat of Lake County despite being the second biggest city in Indiana) who's industry left them years ago, a town that has the misfortune of being the decaying rust belt city par excellence, part of the Chicagoland metropolitan area yet at the same time being outside the State of Illinois. It's a unique combination of painful twists of economic and geographic fate. By the way, is Gary keeping any statistics on who visits the casinos? Are they from Gary, or at least from out of state? Tarbell's idea isn't just to have a slot thing there at Broadway Commons, it's to have a destination there, with shows and restaurants and probably hotels and a whole Fancy Night Out thing...a throwback to times when casino's were illegal, but the nightlife was hustling. Tarbell has some undeniable charm, but he also has some undeniable affinity for a project, any project, at Broadway Commons. Tarbell has an idea, based on little more than love and faith, that a project there will become a major destination. That's not going to happen. The experiences of other cities, as well as general economic impact studies, show that gambling is refuge of the desperate and deluded. Just because my mother thinks I'm great doesn't mean most other people will, and likewise, just because Tarbell thinks a Broadway Commons casino will be a great destination doesn't mean the potential patrons will.
June 15, 200618 yr There is also this belief that Broadway Commons is this magical untapped resource right in the the middle of the city. If the railroad tunnel project to Evanston abandoned in the 1850's had in fact been completed, perhaps Union Terminal would have been built there and that corner of the city would be much different today as a result. But the fact is from a pedestrian standpoint it is somewhat cut off from OTR and the business district and meanwhile its 3,000-odd cheap parking spaces are so valuable to commuters any development plan needs to replace them in garages either on Broadway Commons or nearby.
June 15, 200618 yr Ahh that's true...what if the demand for parking leads to other buildings being knocked down to make up for it? Definitely something that they need to think about.
June 15, 200618 yr The fact that you used Gary, Indiana as an example should clue you in that your argument isn't going to be universally valid. Anyone who thinks that Cincinnati is in as bad an economic posiition as Gary is being exceptionally and unduly pessimistic. Gary is a one industry town (grew up around the U.S. Steel Works, the town was named for the CEO at the time- Gary is so wholly identified with U.S. Steel that it isn't even the county seat of Lake County despite being the second biggest city in Indiana) who's industry left them years ago, a town that has the misfortune of being the decaying rust belt city par excellence, part of the Chicagoland metropolitan area yet at the same time being outside the State of Illinois. It's a unique combination of painful twists of economic and geographic fate. The Gary model might be what lead to the first attempt in Ohio...putting casinos in distressed cities as a way of drawing in spending and tax money. From what I recall of the first attempt at casino gambling in Ohio, back in the late 80s/early 90s, was that it was to be limited to distressed metro areas...in fact to just a few cities, such as Lorain, Steubenville, Youngstown, perhaps others. I know Lorain was on the list as the proposal was initially coming from Lorain. This was put to referendum and defeated at the polls, so the issue should, by rights, be dead. Yet we keep talking about it. In any case the article I linked to has plenty of cites to other studies that question casinos as an economic development tool, as well as the negative social aspects of it being a sort of regressive "tax".
June 15, 200618 yr >Ahh that's true...what if the demand for parking leads to other buildings being knocked down to make up for it? Well there aren't too many obviously in that area left to knock down. The problem with garages is that people start getting pissed when they have to go up more than 3 or 4 levels. Often the top decks and roof of the huge garages almost never get used. And when everyone leaves at the same time there is gridlock in the garages themselves. From a design standpoint, in my opinion you want as many parallel and sawtooth spots as possible. This is helped considerably by simply having a denser network of streets (although of course you lose spots at intersections, so at some point you don't want cross streets to become any more frequent) and having back alleyways. The alleys in Chicago are a big reason why so many more people have cars there as compared to Manhattan. There's no reason why a series of small garages can't be built along Eggleston Ave., but again, it would be preferable to have some office and residential above them. In fact that would be great if somebody built some cheap $400/month apartments and condos over there along Eggleston above some garages, it would allow a lot of people with a lot of debt coming out of school to live downtown. That land over there can't be worth that much.
June 16, 200618 yr From the 6/15/06 Enquirer: Casino backers start petition drive Campaign to get issue on ballot begins in city BY HOWARD WILKINSON | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER Backers of a plan for a slot machine parlor on Broadway Commons will embark today on what might be considered a daunting mission - gathering the signatures of 323,000 registered Ohio voters over eight weeks to place their issue on the November ballot. It is daunting because their competition, Ohio Learn & Earn, which wants to place a Cleveland casino issue on the same ballot, has been on the streets of Ohio cities for more than a month and has yet to gather half of the 500,000 signatures they believe they need to come up with 323,000 valid signatures. Queen City will kick off its petition campaign this afternoon at the Broadway Commons site Beck wants to develop. Hundreds of paid petition-bearers are expected to fan out to try to gather 500,000 signatures by the Aug. 9 deadline. The Queen City group has adopted a Bengals-orange petition to distinguish it from the Ohio Learn & Earn petition, which is white. Ohio Learn & Earn, which represents six Ohio racetracks and Cleveland area developers, dropped Cincinnati as a potential casino site when its petition drive began. Full article at http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060615/NEWS01/606150340/1056/rss02
June 16, 200618 yr <i>Cleveland played some serious hardball and Cincy got screwed. I wonder if the Cleveland mob got involved.</i> <b>Casino facing stacked deck Legal challenges, late start doom plans for this year</b> BY JON CRAIG AND DAN KLEPAL | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITERS COLUMBUS - Earlier this week, proponents of gambling at Broadway Commons spoke glowingly of printing Bengals-orange petitions to collect the signatures needed for a Nov. 7 vote. But Thursday, they canceled their planned press conference, acknowledging that the proposed slots parlor is all but dead for this year - the victim of legal challenges, a late start, and the fact that their rivals had hired all the major signature-gathering companies. Last month, Beck proposed building a $300 million hotel at Broadway Commons on the eastern edge of downtown with 3,500 slot machines. He called his venture Queen City Gaming Entertainment and even offered to pay the $2 million needed to gather petition signatures. The chief rival was Ohio Learn & Earn, a group trying to bring slot machines to Cleveland and six horsetracks - including River Downs in Anderson Township and Lebanon Raceway in Warren County. But Learn & Earn excluded the Cincinnati site from its ballot initiative. Full article at http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060616/NEWS01/606160383
June 16, 200618 yr ^Cleveland played some serious hardball and Cincy got screwed. I wonder if the Cleveland mob got involved. I completely disagree. Saved by our own apathy, once again. I'm not being sarcastic. Let's hope this issue fades away and doesn't come up again. By the way, if they get slots at River Downs, some one out to try and keep some statistics on who's using them. That would be a responsible act from the proponents of gambling in downtown Cincinnati.
June 17, 200618 yr From the 6/17/06 Cincinnati Post: Ghiz: Boycott casinos, petitions By Joe Wessels Post staff reporter Council member Leslie Ghiz wants everyone to keep driving once they reach Argosy Casino in Lawrenceburg and keep going to any other Indiana casino that is not trying to keep Cincinnati from having its own slot machines. "You bet. Whatever it takes," Ghiz said when asked about the boycott she announced Friday. "Nobody go to Argosy. Nobody spend a dime at Argosy because they're screwing everybody in southwest Ohio." Ghiz also urged Cincinnatians not to sign any petitions circulated in the area recently, including on the sidewalks of downtown. Those collecting the signatures asked citizens to sign a petition to help fund education in Ohio, but that has been disguised as the casino initiative that would only put slots in Cleveland. Full article at http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1150533157181290.xml&coll=2
June 18, 200618 yr Broadway Commons casino proposal dead for now Cincinnati Business Courier - 2:48 PM EDT Friday A local effort to bring a casino to downtown Cincinnati has ended after being hit with legal challenges from another group that is also conducting a petition drive. Queen City Gaming and Entertainment said it will not attempt to collect signatures to put the issue on the statewide ballot in November. The group, founded by local businessman Louis Beck, was trying to bring a casino to the Broadway Commons site at Eggleston Avenue. Cincinnati City Councilwoman Leslie Ghiz, a supporter of the Queen City Gaming effort, said Learn and Earn, which is also conducting a petition drive to put a casino issue on the ballot, thwarted the local group by hiring all of the companies that employ people to collect signatures. Learn and Earn also filed challenges against Queen City Gaming's signature-collecting process in several Ohio counties. The Learn and Earn issue, if passed by voters, would allow slot machines at seven Ohio racetracks and two downtown Cleveland sites, but downtown Cincinnati is not included. Full article at http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2006/06/12/daily57.html
June 20, 200618 yr Casino plan appears doomed Legal challenges, late start ruin plans for this year BY JON CRAIG AND DAN KLEPAL | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITERS COLUMBUS - Earlier this week, proponents of gambling at Broadway Commons spoke glowingly of printing Bengals-orange petitions to collect the signatures needed for a Nov. 7 vote. But Thursday, they canceled their planned press conference, acknowledging that the proposed slots parlor is all but dead for this year - the victim of legal challenges, a late start, and the fact that their rivals had hired all the major signature-gathering companies. Last month, Beck proposed building a $300 million hotel at Broadway Commons on the eastern edge of downtown with 3,500 slot machines. He called his venture Queen City Gaming Entertainment and even offered to pay the $2 million needed to gather petition signatures. The chief rival was Ohio Learn & Earn, a group trying to bring slot machines to Cleveland and six horsetracks - including River Downs in Anderson Township and Lebanon Raceway in Warren County. But Learn & Earn excluded the Cincinnati site from its ballot initiative. Full article at http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060616/NEWS01/606160383/-1/back01
June 30, 200618 yr <i>Ahh, to be able to whip up $10 million for a neighboring city, how sweet. I always thought Cincy should have Lawenceberg pay for a bike trail or rail line to and fro. One long trail from DT to the casinos. That's the least they could do.</i> <b>Casino Money Used To Lure Honda </b> First posted: 6/29/2006 5:22:19 PM The city of Lawrenceburg, Ind. gave greensburg $10 million to put the deal over the top. The money is from the city's profit sharing agreement with the owners of Argosy Casino. It's part of a newly created fund to share the wealth in southeastern Indiana. Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels praised Lawrenceburg as the Honda plant was announced Wednesday. "I want to thank Mayor Bill Cunningham who's here from Lawrenceburg for playing a significant part in making this happen," Daniels said at the press conference. "We could have spent the $10 million a lot of other places and created no jobs, but we just created 2,000. No brainer," Cunningham said. Lawrenceburg created a revenue sharing region this year to help nine counties outside Dearborn County with economic development which included Decatur County. Greensburg Mayor Frank Manus went to Lawrenceburg asking for $10 million site preparation dollars. "There was no hesitation whatsoever. They just came up with the money," Manus said. Full story at http://www.wcpo.com/news/2006/local/06/29/honda.html
June 30, 200618 yr ^ Damn! No shit it must be nice to hand out $10 million like that. Although it sounds like the state will get their hands on more and more of that money, taking it out of local hands. No matter how cooperative Lawrenceburg was in this case, I'm sure the state of Indiana is salivating for that money. You're right grasscat, they should send some of it to their neighbors to the east as a little token of thanks for providing them with all their gamblers.
July 4, 200618 yr From the 7/4/06 Dispatch: Ohio gambling backers cite Honda choice as selling point Tuesday, July 04, 2006 When Honda announced last week that it would build its new assembly plant in Indiana rather than Ohio, experts theorized why: The Indiana site wouldn’t compete with the automaker’s existing Ohio plants for suppliers. Plus, Indiana has lower workers’ compensation rates. Now, supporters of legalizing gambling in Ohio are offering another reason: The Hoosier State allows riverboat casinos. Ohio Learn and Earn, the group spearheading the drive for a November ballot initiative to allow casino-style gambling at Ohio racetracks and downtown Cleveland locations, has been promoting its claim that casino revenues would pump as much as $1 billion a year into college scholarships for high-school graduates. But Honda’s decision has given the group a second pitch: that revenue from casinos also would be used for job-creating infrastructure improvements. Ohio Learn and Earn says about $200 million a year in casino revenue would go for that purpose. The group notes that Indiana casinos contributed approximately $114 million toward economic development in 1995 and that an Indiana city that is home to a large casino chipped in $10 million for infrastructure improvements in the nearby city, Greensburg, that landed the Honda plant. Some skeptics, however, note that Ohio Learn and Earn’s numbers aren’t guaranteed and question whether the state would cut other economicdevelopment funding if it could use casino revenue for that purpose. Full article at http://www.dispatch.com/?story=dispatch/2006/07/04/20060704-B3-00.html
July 10, 200618 yr <i>You go girl! Make it as uncomfortable as possible for the Learn & Earn thugs.</i> <b>Ghiz files lawsuit against casino PAC</b> Cincinnati Business Courier - 12:07 PM EDT Monday Cincinnati City Council member Leslie Ghiz today filed a lawsuit against the Ohio Earn and Learn Committee, the political action committee established for the statewide casino referendum that excludes Cincinnati, and against FieldWorks Inc., the Washington, D.C., company hired to circulate petitions. Cincinnati was initially included in the casino petition language but was later removed. Ghiz and other council members pushed for a casino site at the downtown site known as Broadway Commons to help spur economic development and boost tourism for the city. Cincinnati City Council voted 7-2 for a resolution supporting Broadway Commons as a casino site, and several other elected officials and organizations supported the site, too. But Ghiz alleges that Ohio Earn and Learn and FieldWorks engaged in "underhanded an deceitful tactics" to ensure that a referendum including a Cincinnati casino site would not appear on the ballot in November. "After researching the legalities of their tactics to stop our campaign, it appears that OLE and FW broke the law in their own initiative efforts," Ghiz said in a news release. The lawsuit, filed in the Hamilton County Court of Common Pleas, revolves around Ohio Learn and Earn's petition gathering process. It states that the organization "intentionally misrepresented and falsely stated to the public the purpose of the petition by omitting the fact that the true purpose of the petition is to legalize gambling in Ohio." Full article at http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2006/07/10/daily4.html?jst=b_ln_hl
July 10, 200618 yr Typical...if I don't get mine..then nobody does! Who cares who gets the damn things "first"? When Ohio finally allows it, don't you think Cincy will get them as well, eventually? Instead...let's just kill the idea for the whole state....
July 11, 200618 yr ^ Do you not understand how much more money is going to Indiana instead of Ohio and the city of Cincinnati? From what i understand there would be no other ballets for gambling for decades, I hear. So you see. That's why they are suing.
July 11, 200618 yr ^^I wonder how it compares to the money going to Niagra Falls, Detroit, or Windsor?
July 11, 200618 yr When Ohio finally allows it, don't you think Cincy will get them as well, eventually? Who knows. Probably not. Or maybe. No one knows. Instead...let's just kill the idea for the whole state.... Learn and Earn may have killed it for the whole state when they did everything in their power to keep Cincinnati off of the ballot. And we're supposed to vote yes for something that specifically excluded us? From the 7/9/06 Toledo Blade: Drive tacitly ties scholarship to Ohio gambling petitions By JIM PROVANCE BLADE COLUMBUS BUREAU COLUMBUS - The Rev. David Downton was irked when a young man recently approached him outside a Kroger's in Jackson and asked him to sign a petition promising college scholarships for Ohio high-school graduates. When the 57-year-old southern Ohio Presbyterian pastor asked where the money would come from, the young man couldn't answer the question. Finally, an older man circulating a separate petition on a different issue walked up and explained that the program would be funded by slot machines. A reporter approached by a different paid signature-gatherer in downtown Columbus received the same initial pitch. Gambling wasn't mentioned until the reporter pressed the issue. In a current radio commercial, a background singer heralds, "A whole lot of good will come of this," as the narrator touts the scholarships. "How good is that?" the narrator asks. "Parents, Learn and Earn is not a political agenda. It's not smoke and mirrors." But the spot doesn't mention that, to the fund the program, voters would have to approve up to 3,500 slot machines at each of the state's seven racetracks, including Toledo's Raceway Park, and two other locations in downtown Cleveland. The commercial does provide an Internet address for voters to find out more about Learn and Earn. The Web site, www.ohiolearnandearn.com, states on its home page that the program would be funded with slot machine revenue and provides a link to the full language of the proposed amendment. He said the organization will be more explicit about the gambling connection during the fall campaign, assuming the proposed amendment is certified for the Nov. 7 ballot. Full article at http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060709/NEWS24/607090360/-1/RSS
July 11, 200618 yr Learn and Earn may have killed it for the whole state when they did everything in their power to keep Cincinnati off of the ballot. And we're supposed to vote yes for something that specifically excluded us? AMEN! I want to thank councilwoman Ghiz for what she is doing! Learn and Earn played dirty and bowed to the will of Penn National, and now I think they should pay. I can't help but wonder what the petition drivers were telling the the 60 year old couples that were signing the petition when I was out running at Miami Whitewater Forest. I always thought that western Hamilton County and Old People tended to be conservative in their views, so it was surprising to observe so many old people signing their petitions. They asked me to sign their petition, to which I asked if they were with Learn and Earn. They replied "yes", to which I remarked that I was pro gambling, anti Learn and Earn. I have no respect for an organization that plays as dirty and deceptive as Learn and Earn. Let's face it, right now Penn National can support the Learn and Earn campaign, but do you think they'd support a Cincinnati only ballot issue? I doubt it, and I think that they would lobby furiously against it along with all other Southeast Casino Operators and the catholic church. Don't want to dig in to their sources of revenue now would we? It is for this reason that I applaud Leslie Ghiz, and if it does make it to the November ballot I sorely hope it fails.
July 13, 200618 yr From the 7/12/06 PD: Gathering a preview of Ohio's gambling debate Wednesday, July 12, 2006 Tom Breckenridge Plain Dealer Reporter A state surrounded by gambling and desperate for cash to fund college education and to boost the economy should embrace slot machines in November, says a leader of Cleveland's chamber of commerce. But the ballot proposal to allow slot machines at Ohio's horse tracks and in downtown Cleveland will suck a couple billion dollars yearly out of Ohioans' wallets, to the detriment of the economy, says Roy Brooks, a finance professor at John Carroll University. A noon debate Tuesday at the Corporate Club at Landerhaven previewed what will be hot-button gambling issues in the coming months, as the Ohio Learn and Earn Committee works on gathering the 323,000 valid signatures it needs for a slots-parlor proposal. Learn and Earn, backed by most of the state's seven horse tracks, Forest City Enterprises Inc. and developer Jeff Jacobs, would bring 31,500 slot machines to the state and generate an estimated $2.8 billion a year in revenue. Some $900 million of that would go to cover college-tuition costs through scholarships for high school graduates, and an additional $200 million would go to economic development, including about $70 million for Cleveland and Cuyahoga County. Full article at http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1152693165277600.xml&coll=2 From the 7/12/06 Dispatch: Central Ohio will have hand in casino vote, Voinovich says Wednesday, July 12, 2006 Although the fight over legalizing casino-style gambling in the state centers on Cleveland, central Ohio will play a key role in the fate of a measure planned for the November ballot, U.S. Sen. George V. Voinovich said Monday. The Republican, a former governor and Cleveland mayor, said that by allowing two new casinos in downtown Cleveland, the proposed ballot measure would freeze out the rest of the state. The proposal also would allow slot machines at Ohio’s seven existing horse-racing tracks, including two in Franklin County. Long an opponent of legalized gambling in Ohio, Voinovich said he hopes the "Learn and Earn" gambling measure can be defeated in the Cleveland area, but he also said central Ohio would be a major battleground. Many business interests in Cleveland support the measure, pointing to the prospect that significant revenue from the new casinos might help fund a new convention center there. Full article at http://www.dispatch.com/?story=dispatch/2006/07/12/20060712-E8-07.html
July 13, 200618 yr People will sign anything. They dont look at all of the documents explaining what it's for, and they think "oh, cool... scholarships for students...thats a good thing" and just sign it. The average person isnt going to wonder what their real motive is. It really upsets me that they stoop that low and Ive told these petitioners what I think.
July 14, 200618 yr From Copley Newspapers, 7/13/06: Shawnee Tribe drops Ohio from lawsuit Thursday, July 13, 2006 By PAUL E. KOSTYU COPLEY COLUMBUS BUREAU CHIEF COLUMBUS - The Eastern Shawnee Tribe of Oklahoma has dropped Ohio from a federal lawsuit claiming land in the state, though it hasn’t given up securing property, including in Stark County. Ohio Attorney General Jim Petro claimed victory in the tribe’s decision. But Terry Casey, a Columbus-based lobbyist for the Shawnee, said the “declaration of victory is very premature.” Petro said the tribe’s decision “is a clear indication that their legal claims are baseless. A close examination of the historical and legal arguments ... reveals that they are absolutely without merit.” The tribe filed a federal lawsuit in Toledo in May 2005, claiming it retained hunting and fishing rights throughout most of central and southern Ohio and that it still held title to some of its former reservations that were ceded to the United States government in the early 1800s. Initially, there were 65 defendants in the case and now there are about 60, according to the Shawnee’s Seattle-based attorney Mason D. Morisset. Franklin County also was dropped from the lawsuit. Full article at http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?ID=296501
July 24, 200618 yr From the 7/22/06 Dispatch: Shawnees should be suing Ohio, Petro says Tribe dropped state from casino lawsuit Saturday, July 22, 2006 James Nash THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH Attorney General Jim Petro was dismissed last week from an American Indian tribe’s lawsuit asserting land claims in Ohio, but now he wants back in. Petro yesterday acknowledged that his gambit — filing a motion to intervene in a lawsuit over the Eastern Shawnee tribe’s land claims — may seem strange even by the topsy-turvy standards of the battle over Indian casinos in Ohio. The Oklahoma-based tribe last week dismissed the state as a defendant in its lawsuit, shifting its strategy from claiming a large swath of northwestern Ohio as Indian land to buying land and cutting deals with individual towns and cities to build casinos. Las Vegas-style casinos are illegal in Ohio, and the state does not recognize the Eastern Shawnee as a legitimate tribe in Ohio. But Petro said he feared that the tribe’s decision to drop the state as a defendant was a tactic to bypass a tough legal fight with the state and instead seek federal recognition in Ohio and begin gaining local approvals for casinos. The Eastern Shawnee already have a deal for land in the village of Botkins, about 20 miles south of Lima. Voters in two other communities have passed measures in favor of tribal casinos. Full article at http://www.dispatch.com/news-story.php?story=dispatch/2006/07/22/20060722-B3-01.html
July 25, 200618 yr From the 7/25/06 Toledo Blade: PHOTO: Foes of the unofficial ballot proposal say the TV spot falsely advertises the benefits of slot machines in Ohio. ( OHIO LEARN AND EARN ) ELECTION 2006 Ad backing slots to spin in Toledo; group cites diverse market By JIM PROVANCE BLADE COLUMBUS BUREAU COLUMBUS - A group hoping to convince voters to allow slot machines in Ohio by linking them to college scholarships will test its first television commercial in the Toledo market beginning today. "Toledo is very diverse in its voting record," said David Hopcraft, spokesman for the Ohio Learn and Earn Committee. "It's close to Detroit, Indiana, and Windsor, and, like any other product or retailer, we want to test our message." After the 30-second spot runs for about three weeks on broadcast and cable TV, the effort financed by the state's seven racetracks and a pair of Cleveland developers plans to poll voters to see if the message needs to be reworked before going statewide. Mr. Hopcraft declined to say how much the group will spend on this media buy. Unlike current radio ads, which never mention gambling, the Toledo ad does explain where the state would get the revenue to send students on the higher-education track to in-state colleges or universities. Full article at http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060725/NEWS09/607250380/-1/RSS
July 26, 200618 yr "Nothing will stop us from filing petitions," he said. "We have over 600,000 signatures to date. We will qualify in close to 70 counties. We're well on our way." Yeah most of which were from people who thought it was nothing more than lobbying scholarships for students.
July 27, 200618 yr ^ Um, no. I think we've explained pretty well why it's a bad deal for most people in the state, and the best you can come up with is "instead...let's just kill the idea for the whole state....", and "if I can't play the way I want to.....I'm taking my toys and going home!!....." Veeery convincing argument. :roll: From the 7/27/06 Canton Repository: Indian gaming subject of bill Thursday, July 27, 2006 BY PAUL M. KRAWZAK, COPLEY WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT WASHINGTON A House committee on Wednesday approved an Indian gaming bill that would block efforts by the Eastern Shawnee Indian tribe to open casinos in Stark County or elsewhere in Ohio. The committee’s approval of the legislation is the latest development in an effort by lawmakers that some observers believe will result in enactment of tougher legislation regulating Indian gaming before the end of the year. The Oklahoma-based Shawnee recently reached an agreement with a private property owner in Lawrence Township in Stark County to buy 49 acres for use as a casino. Earlier this year, the tribe was courting Massillon as the site for the casino, but it has since switched its focus to the Canal Fulton area. The Shawnees sued the state of Ohio and several units of local government in federal court last year to reclaim 93,000 acres of ancestral land in what many saw as a bid to open casinos in the state. Full article at http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?Category=9&ID=298911&r=11
July 29, 200618 yr ^ Wasn't meant to be a convincing argument, it was meant to say that for pro casino backers, why not get a foot in to the door and get them here, no matter where....than to kill it for the whole state. I am sure that if they were in the state, then Cincinnati would get theirs too eventually. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the train of thought here is..."If WE don't get it...then NOBODY should".
July 29, 200618 yr The recipients of the slots have already been predetermined. There is no "foot in the door" for later provided in the legislation.
July 29, 200618 yr From the 7/29/06 Middletown Journal: Slot backers try new approach By Joanne Huist Smith Staff Writer DAYTON — When Sherry Wixon was approached by a young man in Yellow Springs and asked to sign a petition to help fund higher education, she was interested, but wanted more information. “As I read quickly through the petition — it was buried several pages down — I found that it was about placing slot machines in Ohio,” Wixon said. “I am uncomfortable with using educating children as a ruse to allow more gambling in Ohio.” Kids carrying backpacks, parents worried about college costs, these are the images the Ohio Learn and Earn Committee is putting before voters. The committee is working to place an amendment to the Ohio Constitution on the Nov. 7 ballot legalizing the use of slot machines at Ohio’s race tracks and two locations in Cleveland. The slots would generate an estimated $2.8 billion a year, supporters say, and the venues would get about 55 percent of proceeds, under the proposal. Full article at http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/content/news/stories/2006/07/29/mj072906gamble.html
August 2, 200618 yr From the 8/1/06 Toledo Blade: Ohio opponents of amendment call for inquiry Critics say those with petitions don't link funds to slot games BLADE COLUMBUS BUREAU COLUMBUS - Opponents of a proposed constitutional amendment linking college scholarships with legalization of slot machines yesterday called for an investigation into reports that some petition circulators are misrepresenting the plan. "How can you validate signatures and put something on the ballot when the people who are circulating don't even tell us something as important as the fact it's going to be funded by slot-machine gambling?" asked Tom Smith, of the Ohio Council of Churches. "We believe it's very unethical in the very least if not illegal." Mike Liebenthal, of Perrysburg, who was not associated with yesterday's press conference, told The Blade he and his wife were approached outside the Toledo Zoo recently. "The pitch was, 'Would you sign a petition to support getting children additional money for college?'" he said. "My question was where the cash was coming from. They said, 'No new taxes.' I pushed forward, 'So where is the money coming from?' The answer was 'Raceway Park.'" "I am not opposed to gambling," Mr. Liebenthal said. "I'm not opposed to slot machines. I am opposed to being deceived. Put forth a correct petition, and let me make an intelligent decision." Full article at http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060801/NEWS09/608010385/-1/NEWS
August 2, 200618 yr From the 8/2/06 Dispatch: Nonprofit backing of gambling effort raises questions Wednesday, August 02, 2006 James Nash THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH Supporters of legalizing slot machines in Ohio submitted more than 600,000 signatures yesterday calling for a November ballot initiative on the matter — nearly twice the number needed to put it to a vote. At the same time, sponsors of the measure fended off questions about the sources of their nearly $1.9 million in revenue by disclosing that seven racetrack owners and two Cleveland developers each committed $355,000 to the effort. Not all the money has been collected yet. In its official campaign-finance statement due Monday, the pro-gambling Learn and Earn committee reported that all its income came from the Ohio Legacy Fund, a nonprofit established last October "to promote economic development and improve educational opportunity for residents of Ohio," according to its articles of incorporation. Because the Ohio Legacy Fund is a nonprofit rather than a political-action committee, it does not need to disclose its balance sheets or donors. To critics of the gambling initiative and some open-government advocates, the arrangement smells like an attempt to evade the financial-disclosure requirements that govern political campaigns. Full article at http://www.dispatch.com/?story=dispatch/2006/08/02/20060802-B1-04.html
August 10, 200618 yr From the 8/8/06 Lima News: Tribe: Petro’s filing a ‘press release’ BY JIM SABIN - Aug. 8, 2006 LIMA — The Eastern Shawnee Tribe of Oklahoma said Attorney General Jim Petro has no right to complain about its settlement agreements. The tribe filed a response Friday to Petro’s motion to intervene in an ongoing land claim lawsuit, calling Petro’s reasons "political" and without merit. The tribe sued the state and 64 other defendants last year in a land claim, seeking relief for being forced out of Ohio in the 1830s. The tribe has been openly negotiating for land in several locations around Ohio to settle the lawsuit, and in July it dropped the state from the lawsuit. The rest of the defendants will follow if the tribe’s settlement agreements with two private landowners are accepted in federal court. The lone exception would be Lima, which is still negotiating with the tribe. A week after celebrating the state’s dismissal from the lawsuit, Petro filed a motion trying to get back in. He said he believes the state’s acceptance of the settlements could be construed as an acceptance of the tribe’s claim to land, a key component of the tribe’s long-range plan to seek to establish Indian gaming in Ohio. Full article at http://www.limanews.com/story.php?IDnum=28407
August 12, 200618 yr From the 8/11/06 Ashtabula Star Beacon: Voinovich decries gambling initiative bound for ballot By MARK TODD Staff Writer [email protected] ASHTABULA - - A proposal to allow slot-machine gambling at selected Ohio venues, slated for the November ballot, is a very bad bet, says U.S. Sen. George Voinovich. During a Wednesday morning visit to the Star Beacon, Voinovich, a Republican, blasted the efforts of the Learn and Earn Committee, which is sponsoring the slot-machine initiative. "I call it deceit and greed," he said. As a former Cleveland mayor and Ohio governor, Voinovich has helped reject gambling issues in the past. Now, he's involved in a campaign to shed light on the well-financed attempt to bring slot machines to the Buckeye State. "This time around, we're really concerned," Voinovich said. The proposal would amend Ohio's constitution to allow slots at Ohio's seven racetracks and two locations in downtown Cleveland. Each site could house 3,500 gaming machines, according to the proposed amendment. Full article at http://www.starbeacon.com/local/local_story_223073233
August 13, 200618 yr ^I agree..it's okay to have the lottery and casino nights at the church..but god forbid to open gambling elsewhere....let it go out of state...great idea! (sarcasm)
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