They are kept in operation by businessmen and convention tourists, not gun toting thugs on their way to Mirage...

 

 

That was totally uncalled for!  How do you know a) those patrons are thugs and b) they are gun toting?

 

I've been to the Mirage as well as others on this board and I'm far from a gun toting thug.

 

Never been - never going to go...but I do watch the news and have heard many comments on this board about what happens at that place - especially after close.  The CPD is unable to control the lawlessness that breaks out often. 

 

I'm surprised you can call me out on making a comment like that - after the many comments and generalizations you make about people from Avon, Westlake, Brunswick, and other places that aren't inner-city or Shaker Square

no many customers are not, however just in the last year there have been 2 murders associated with customers. let me tell you on Sunday (actually Monday) 3AM, things get really ugly down there.

 

I understand that, but its a blanket statement about all patrons, which is clearly untrue has no place here on UO.

 

Just a guess, but maybe he read this article recently

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2007/05/gunshot_victim_identified.html

 

Not saying I agree or disagree because honestly i have never been and have no plan to ever go, but the place doesn't have the best reputation.

So that makes it ok categorize every patron?

 

Never been - never going to go...but I do watch the news and have heard many comments on this board about what happens at that place - especially after close.  The CPD is unable to control the lawlessness that breaks out often. 

 

I'm surprised you can call me out on making a comment like that - after the many comments and generalizations you make about people from Avon, Westlake, Brunswick, and other places that aren't inner-city or Shaker Square

My comments about westsiders, mainly related to shopping/fashion/decorating and beauty, are purely sarcasm.  Now if you can point out threads where i've systmatically categorized/stereotyped anyone without actual facts, PM me with those threads and comments!

 

You statement was uncalled for since you don't know anyone who has patronized the club or been!

Are they making it a district so that it is a one time exception to the law quoted in the original article?

another concideration is the towpath trail going through the strip zone. with the flats becoming more of a mixed use gem, why have more seedy joints along there? esp with the nice little park there?  Did I say I thought this was stupid? To answer punches question...I think the whole city has to have a change of of some sort and then the next step would be targeting the specific area by State Fish. This is from the flats oxbow assoc:

Regarding the new “Blue Light District” legislation, this is what I know.  There will be two pieces of legislation.  The first will be “Enabling” legislation which sets up that type of situation within the Codified Ordinances of Cleveland and could be used in many different areas of the City, should someone want to.  The next piece will be a specific piece of legislation to allow that particular site to be designated for that code.  The process will allow at least two times each for public comment.  I suggest that everyone interested in this attend those meetings and we will put the times and dates in the Oxbow Action.

well, in light of the new state regulations on these clubs, it seems that will limit the hours of operation, as well as potential clients.  the downtown clubs (from the outside), seem to draw a very different demographic than brookpark or w25 or some of the other "districts". 

 

i also think this is one of the "city" problems.  in a suburb, it might not fly, but if you draw a 1 mile radius around a typical suburban house, there is nothing but other houses. 

 

draw a 1 mile radius around any of the downtown residences, and you are likely to have some lingering manufacturing, lots of bars and restaurants, some gay focused bars and restaurants, lots of independent retail, some adult stores, some strip clubs, a homeless shelter or soup kitchen, lots of bus stops, etc.   basically all sorts of potentially NIMBY type activities.  ultimately, that is what makes the fabric of the city, imo.

 

 

well at least no one is rambling on here how great Times Square in NYC was before the Disney-ification.

 

 

truthfully I am not sure which is worse^

well, in light of the new state regulations on these clubs, it seems that will limit the hours of operation, as well as potential clients.  the downtown clubs (from the outside), seem to draw a very different demographic than brookpark or w25 or some of the other "districts". 

 

i also think this is one of the "city" problems.  in a suburb, it might not fly, but if you draw a 1 mile radius around a typical suburban house, there is nothing but other houses. 

 

draw a 1 mile radius around any of the downtown residences, and you are likely to have some lingering manufacturing, lots of bars and restaurants, some gay focused bars and restaurants, lots of independent retail, some adult stores, some strip clubs, a homeless shelter or soup kitchen, lots of bus stops, etc.  basically all sorts of potentially NIMBY type activities.  ultimately, that is what makes the fabric of the city, imo.

 

 

 

I agree thats why I live here and not in strongsville. However that does not mean people should say its the city lest have no zoning rules and dump every "undesirable" business here in great concentration. There should be balance of all types of businesses. too much of most things is not good be they adult businesses, car lots, check cashing/gun/pawnshops, liquor stores what have you. It is the responsibility of the citizens to set limits with the city. if the city wants actual citizens, well then they need to expect some opposition from time to time with certain types of businesses and listen to their populace. Its funny people (not nec Urbanlife, but in other conversations I'm having)b are trying to compare a homeless shelter to a strip zone. Homeless shelters are sadly necessary in our society and they should be centrally located. Do we need 10 blocks of them together, or course not. City residents should not oppose them, unless the concentration becomes too great. Like  it or not there are some crime issues around them.  It is almost a suburban thing to say to urbanites  "well you live in the city what do expect?" I expect my voice to be heard, thats what. just like yours in Bay Village 

Just wondering. (to nobody in particular)

How do you feel about the cluster of clubs around the 25th/Clark area?

That's barely 2 miles away.

Peabody.  I'm not taking sides, but trying to look at both points of view.  I know if this type of establishment would move to Shaker Square, I would want to know also.

 

Question, have you ever been inside any of these establishments or seen any "suspicious" activities in or around them.  As others have stated, these are quality "entertainmnet" establishments.  Although I'm a gay man, one of the best meals I've ever had was in a strip club.  The service, the clientele, the management was all top notch.

 

I honestly don't think they should be Lumped together, I would prefer to see them placed freely and mixed in with other establishments.

I think Christies and Diamonds have been good neighbors for the most part. I have seen some creepiness outside diamonds-a block or so away. I am not against strip clubs, esp these 2. I am having to say until I am blue in the face I am not trying to sanitize the flats I only want a nice mix of businesses and not see it go on  a downward path when we are making so much progress. Please some one try and tell me adult business districts are good for a community. I dare you!  the problem is we have  no control over which clubs  come in once the flood gates open. once the zoning changes we could have less responsible businesses. I am not saying irresponsible clubs are always strip bars. mirage has been very bad for this community and almost impossible to get rid of (despite countess arrests, liquor violations and violence that erupt  on a regular basis). I do not like the bars on Clark..they too abut residentail areas and the residents are not politically empowered enough (and often renters too)to address the issues. Here is some research (link 1) on the effect of clubs and interestingy the city identified them as a problem in their own code (item 2).  Sorry to no one in paticular but some of you are "so Cleveland" to not think we deserve better -dynamic places, vitality and diversity- in our city center.

 

 

http://www.law.fsu.edu/journals/landuse/Vol122/Tucker.pdf

 

from city of cleveland:

Section 347.07    Adult Entertainment

 

(a) Purpose. Based upon evidence and findings of negative secondary effects of adult entertainment uses presented in hearings before the Council and in studies from other communities, including the cities of Indianapolis and New York, the Council finds that adult entertainment uses in Cleveland cause negative secondary effects and has created this section to regulate adult entertainment uses to promote the health, safety, morals and general welfare of the citizens of Cleveland by establishing reasonable and uniform regulations to prevent concentration of adult entertainment uses and location near specified other uses. The provisions of this section have neither the purpose nor effect of imposing a limitation or restriction on the content of any communicative materials, including adult entertainment materials. Similarly, it is not the intent, or effect of this section to restrict or deny access by adults to adult entertainment materials protected by the First Amendment, or to deny access by the distributors and exhibitors of adult entertainment to their intended market. Additionally, it is not the intent or effect of this section to condone or legitimize the distribution of obscene material.

 

 

 

(b) Definitions. As used in this Zoning Code:

 

(1) "Specified sexual activities" means any of the following:

 

A. the fondling or other erotic touching of human genitals, pubic region, buttocks, anus, or female breast;

 

B. sex acts, actual or simulated, including masturbation, intercourse, oral copulation or sodomy;

 

C. excretory functions as part of or in connection with any of the activities set forth in A and B above.

 

(2) "Specified anatomical areas" means:

 

A. Less than completely and opaquely covered: (1) human genitals, (2) pubic region, (3) buttocks, or (4) female breast below a point immediately above the top of the areola; or

 

B. Human male genitals in a discernably turgid state, even if completely and opaquely covered.

 

(3) "Adult Bookstore" or "Adult Video Store" means an establishment, which, as one of its principal purposes, offers for sale or rental for any form of consideration any one or more of the following:

 

A. Books, magazines, newspapers, periodicals, or other printed matter, or photographs, films, motion pictures, video cassettes, video reproductions, slides, laser discs, compact discs or other visual representations, which are distinguished or characterized by the depiction or description of "specified sexual activities" or "specified anatomical areas"; or

 

B. Instruments, devices, or other paraphernalia, except prophylactic products, designed or marketed for use in connection with "specified sexual activities."

 

An establishment may have other principal business purposes that do not involve the offering for sale or rental material depicting or describing "specified sexual activities" or "specified anatomical areas" and still be categorized as an adult bookstore or adult video store. Such other business purpose will not serve to exempt an establishment from being categorized as an adult bookstore or adult video store so long as one of its principal business purposes is the offering for sale or rental for consideration the above specified materials.

 

(4) "Adult Motion Picture Theatre" means a commercial establishment, regardless of capacity, where films, motion pictures, video cassettes, slides or similar photographic reproductions are regularly shown which are distinguished or characterized by the depiction or description of "specified sexual activities" or "specified anatomical areas." This definition of adult motion picture theater does not include the definitions of adult video arcade and adult cabaret, which are separate uses.

 

(5) "Adult Video Arcade" means any place to which the public is permitted or invited wherein one or more enclosed or screened areas or booths are maintained wherein still or motion picture machines, projectors, video, compact or laser disc players or other image-producing devices are operated or maintained to show images to five or fewer persons per enclosed area or booth at any one time, and where the images so displayed are distinguished or characterized by the depiction or description of "specified sexual activities" or "specified anatomical areas."

 

(6) "Adult Cabaret" means a commercial establishment, including a nightclub, bar, restaurant or similar establishment, which regularly features persons who expose specified anatomical areas, or dancers, strippers or similar live entertainers in performances which are distinguished or characterized by the exposure of "special anatomical areas" or by the depiction or description of "specified sexual activities," or films, motion pictures, video cassettes, slides, or other photographic reproductions which are distinguished or characterized by the depiction or description of "specified anatomical areas" or "specified sexual activities." This definition of adult cabaret does not include the definitions of adult live entertainment arcade or adult theater, which are separate uses.

 

(7) "Adult Theater" means a theater, concert hall, auditorium, or similar commercial establishment which regularly features persons who expose "specified anatomical areas" or live performances which are distinguished or characterized by the exposure of "specified anatomical areas" or by the depiction or description of "specified sexual activities." This definition of adult theater does not include the definition of adult live entertainment arcade which is a separate use.

 

(8) "Adult Live Entertainment Arcade" means any place to which the public is permitted or invited wherein one or more enclosed or screened areas or booths are maintained for viewing by five or fewer persons at any one time live entertainment such as a dance routine, strip performance or other similar entertainment, which live entertainment is distinguished or characterized by the exposure of "specified anatomical areas" or by the depiction or description of "specified sexual activities."

 

 

 

© Location. Uses defined in divisions (b)(3) Adult Bookstore, or Adult Video Store, (b)(4) Adult Motion Picture Theater, (b)(5) Adult Video Arcade, (b)(6) Adult Cabaret, (b)(7) Adult Theater and (b)(8) Adult Live Theater Entertainment Arcade of this section are designated "adult entertainment" uses. Where permitted in a use district, adult entertainment uses are subject to the following location restrictions:

 

(1) No adult entertainment use shall be established on a lot or lots within 1,000 feet of a residence district.

 

(2) No two adult entertainment uses shall be located in the same premises or on the same lot. An adult entertainment use may never be an accessory use as that term is used in this Zoning Code.

 

(3) No adult entertainment use shall be established on a lot or lots within 1,000 feet of another lot or lots containing an existing adult entertainment use, or of a lot or lots where there is no building or structure, but for which a valid and current permit or certificate of occupancy is issued for an adult entertainment use.

 

(4) No adult entertainment use shall be established on a lot or lots within 1,000 feet of a pool or billiard hall or a video or pinball arcade or tattooing or body piercing establishment.

 

(5) No adult entertainment use shall be located on a lot or lots within 1,000 feet of a premises, which may be one or more lots, having as its principal use: a church, synagogue or mosque; special education, preschool, kindergarten, elementary, junior high or high school; education or training facility for mentally or physically disabled persons; public or nonprofit community center in which there are regular programs for minors; public library; public park; public recreation center; playground; hospital; clinic; infirmary; nursing or convalescent homes; home for the aged; rest home; orphanage or day care center.

 

 

 

(d) Permit Applications. The City shall approve or disapprove the portion of the completed application requiring review under division © within thirty (30) calendar days of submission.

 

 

 

(e) Signs and Exterior Display. No adult entertainment use shall be conducted in any manner that permits the observation of any material depicting, describing or relating to "specified sexual activities" or "specified anatomical areas" by display, decorations, sign, show window or other opening from any public view.

 

 

 

(f) Disseminating and Displaying Material Harmful to Juveniles. All adult entertainment uses shall comply with applicable state and local laws regarding the dissemination and display of material harmful to juveniles.

 

 

(Ord. No. 737-01. Passed 5-20-02, eff. 5-22-02)

 

 

 

 

 

oh dear lord, I agree (in part)with dick feagler? has the world ended and no one told me ?

 

http://www.cleveland.com/plaindealer/stories/index.ssf?/base/opinion-0/1181724117108010.xml&coll=2

 

A place to earn the wages of sin

Wednesday, June 13, 2007

Dick Feagler

Plain Dealer Columnist

 

We have not always been a city that comes lately and reluc tantly to sin.

 

While everybody else was building casinos, we spent 30 years batting around the morality of dice. And we haven't had an epiphany yet.

peabody... he was one of the grand marshals for Cleveland's Pride parade in 2004 so he might not be quite as off-base as you'd initially think. But I hear you - realizing that you agree on some of the same things as a crotchety old Bay Village guy? Yeah - that's rather sobering :eek:

I know it kills us when we have to look at things in shades of gray instead of black and white doesnt it? Seriously though I am not sure if I ever agreed with the ol coot.

Tell us how you really feel about it, peabody.

 

Before I scrolled right to see Peabody, I was hoping she would be putting a different finger out, and up. Oh well. I guess she's too much of a lady.

I didn't want to get banned.

 

:-D

yeah why AM I smiling. Oh it is the goodtime, how can you not! Here is an reader editorial written by my new BFF

Cleveland should do better than 'blue Flats'

Sunday, June 17, 2007

With its "Shrewd move" editorial Thursday, The Plain Dealer has bought into the lustful sex-in-the-streets culture that destroyed the Roman Empire 2000 years ago - a culture that corrupts and destroys the drive of a people to achieve greatness.

 

The mayor and City Council members should go to San Antonio, Texas, where I went to see the second NBA Finals game. Their Riverwalk downtown is a marvel of cleanliness, beauty and entertainment enjoyed every day, not by men looking for vicarious sex, but by families, businesspersons and tourists - tens of thousands daily.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/plaindealer/stories/index.ssf?/base/opinion/1181982685316480.xml&coll=2

Good point. I guess they better build that pedestrian bridge over the river near the Main Avenue bridge! They're going to need it if they want pedestrians business from the West Bank.

I heard former Brook Park mayor and drunken exhibitionist Tom Coyne was on Channel 19 last night (I refuse to watch that station) talking up the strip district. What idiot is using this crooked, immoral charlatan to be his spokesperson for this?? Oh, I forgot -- Tony George. If these are the type of people connected to this project (and they are, just as they were the players along Brookpark Road), the Third District vice unit is going to have their hands full trying to keep that area from turning into Brookpark North. But Coyne, of all people, says it's OK. What a coincidence!

I heard former Brook Park mayor and drunken exhibitionist Tom Coyne was on Channel 19 last night (I refuse to watch that station) talking up the strip district. ..........But Coyne, of all people, says it's OK. What a coincidence!

 

Maybe he's going to be performer in the club(s).

I think we will be more likely to see him exposing himself on the towpath to innocent children and suburbinites who took 10 years to work up the courage to return to the city..    :-o

I heard former Brook Park mayor and drunken exhibitionist Tom Coyne was on Channel 19 last night (I refuse to watch that station) talking up the strip district. What idiot is using this crooked, immoral charlatan to be his spokesperson for this?? Oh, I forgot -- Tony George. If these are the type of people connected to this project (and they are, just as they were the players along Brookpark Road), the Third District vice unit is going to have their hands full trying to keep that area from turning into Brookpark North. But Coyne, of all people, says it's OK. What a coincidence!

 

jeez can't a guy wake up naked once or twice and public and be forgiven? what is this world coming to?

I know. we are so judgemental.  :drunk:  :wink:

jeez can't a guy wake up naked once or twice and public and be forgiven? what is this world coming to?

 

Are you speaking from experience?

 

I think we will be more likely to see him exposing himself on the towpath to innocent children and suburbinites who took 10 years to work up the courage to return to the city..    :-o

And why is this a bad thing?  :? :evil:

^ I heard somewhere visitors from the suburbs were essential to the City's economy and growth. I don't know where I heard that or if its  true though.  :roll:

^ I heard somewhere visitors from the suburbs were essential to the City's economy and growth. I don't know where I heard that or if its  true though.  :roll:

 

Ahhh...is that why so many of them come into to behave "badly" then run home to the desperate housewife/househusband?

MTS you sure as heck got that right. I dont want those freak suburbinites coming in to sully my nade! It may be hard to tell but I NOT being sarcastic.

MTS you sure as heck got that right. I dont want those freak suburbinites coming in to sully my nade! It may be hard to tell but I NOT being sarcastic.

 

Honey I agree.  If you look at most "red light" (or is it blue light?) most of the johns, drug buyers or the distribution channels are from the 'burbs.

 

Again, is there a way to make this "strip" work but make it market it as a high class area.  They have area's like this in London and Paris.  If we're going to have one, lets have the classiest one of all time.

MTS you sure as heck got that right. I dont want those freak suburbinites coming in to sully my nade! It may be hard to tell but I NOT being sarcastic.

 

Honey I agree.  If you look at most "red light" (or is it blue light?) most of the johns, drug buyers or the distribution channels are from the 'burbs.

 

Again, is there a way to make this "strip" work but make it market it as a high class area.  They have area's like this in London and Paris.  If we're going to have one, lets have the classiest one of all time.

 

classy?  uh no. I wish there were a US example and we are no position to be experimenting with this improbable concept. Sadly Cleveland and the downtown area is scrambling to gain the respect is deserves. Alas we are not London or Paris and believe it or not they both have some dangerous and seedy red light districts. Have you not heard of Jack the Ripper ? :lol: I would venture to say they are not in residential areas either (but dont quote me) this whole deal is dirty let me tell you. we are being duped.  Maybe you can write Cimperman an invite him to put the district on Shaker Square. Is there not space? As you aptly point out access from downtown is easy!  BTW I would not support this at all either.On my walk tonight I observed lots of empty space on the east bank s. of the main av Bridge (with for lease signs no less). odd. none of these were proposed as Hustler temp home until Wolstein can invite them back into the new project when it is done. That  is weird b/c strips clubs are so good for high end neighborhoods.  :evil:

MTS you sure as heck got that right. I dont want those freak suburbinites coming in to sully my nade! It may be hard to tell but I NOT being sarcastic.

 

Honey I agree.  If you look at most "red light" (or is it blue light?) most of the johns, drug buyers or the distribution channels are from the 'burbs.

 

Again, is there a way to make this "strip" work but make it market it as a high class area.  They have area's like this in London and Paris.  If we're going to have one, lets have the classiest one of all time.

 

classy?  uh no. I wish there were a US example and we are no position to be experimenting with this improbable concept. Sadly Cleveland and the downtown area is scrambling to gain the respect is deserves. Alas we are not London or Paris and believe it or not they both have some dangerous and seedy red light districts. Have you not heard of Jack the Ripper ? :lol: I would venture to say they are not in residential areas either (but dont quote me) this whole deal is dirty let me tell you. we are being duped.  Maybe you can write Cimperman an invite him to put the district on Shaker Square. Is there not space? As you aptly point out access from downtown is easy!  BTW I would not support this at all either.On my walk tonight I observed lots of empty space on the east bank s. of the main av Bridge (with for lease signs no less). odd. none of these were proposed as Hustler temp home until Wolstein can invite them back into the new project when it is done. That  is weird b/c strips clubs are so good for high end neighborhoods.  :evil:

 

Actually, sweetie, if you look at the four recent Paris photo threads, you'll see the "red light distict" in 4 or 5 pictures.

 

Shaker square wouldn't be on the equation cause of its residential make up and zoning.  as indicated in my earlier message, I don't know how I would feel.

 

I'm open to a lot of things, but we're talking about your neighborhood and how this has been a) communicated and b) how it will be developed.

Peabody,

 

I pretty much agree with most of what you are talking about. However, I think your tone is a bit off. The tone of your arguments suggests that this decision was made in a bubble--as if Jackson WANTS a strip club district. My guess is that he doesn't want one at all. Wolstein and the city, behind the 8-ball, had to settle. This was a part of the negotiations. None of us knows how these negotiations went. Nobody knows whether or if this is the only way to push forward with the FEB project.  :)

well MTS -they can CHANGE the zoning that is what they are wanting to do here-make certain residentail areas an exception to the 1000 ft.rule. If they can do it here they can do it anywhere in the City. This could surely result in Cleveland being a laughing stock in Urban Planning classrooms for years to come it this goes through.  I am sorry the city it at the end of their rope with this and has such poor problem solving skills that their only solution is to dump it from one place to another-but that does not mean other stakeholders should have to "take one for the team" .  Are we all supposed to grease up and bend over?  On our walk last night I passed a lot of neighbors in the flats-both banks. WE are a residential neighborhood. We peacefully coexist with most of our business neighbors, but we have drawn the line. NOT ONE resident I have spoken to is in favor of this. What does that say?  Would anyone want me smugly telling them what is best for their neighborhood or they should just suck it up? Now 3231, I would be thrilled if they there are other options, here is hoping!

Pigalle is nothing except a place for American and Japanese tourists to buy tacky souvenir crap.  If you want to see a shady Red light district, check out Brussels.  It's disgustingly run-down! 

So true about the Euro red right districts.. And really if Hustler does not find a home the whole project is dead? please.  If you think so you are being manipulated by the J and C team are are quickly painting themselves in a corner.  I always imagine Cimperman having Mayoral aspirations. He better really watch what he is doing and saying...he is not winning points from anyone on this except like KJP mentioned the dirty boys of brookpark. makes you wonder. Anyway he can still redeem himself (at least in my book) it is not too late. 

whoa...whoa...whoa.

 

Peabody, sweetie, darling....with all due respect.  I know you're passionate, but I feel based on the way you've written some post that you are reaching a bit.  I know I would be upset if this just fell on my doorstep without any community involvement.  THAT WOULD PISS ME OFF.  And I am in your corner.  Yes the city can change the law, but I highly doubt they would do this in a neighborhood as dense as shaker square.  in Downtown because of the mix of businesses its easier for business to lobby for and set up this type of "business" because of the types of buildings and current zoning.

 

What I don't agree with is:

A)  This could surely result in Cleveland being a laughing stock in Urban Planning classrooms for years to come it this goes through. 

 

B) I am sorry the city it at the end of their rope with this and has such poor problem solving skills that their only solution is to dump it from one place to another-but that does not mean other stakeholders should have to "take one for the team" .  Are we all supposed to grease up and bend over?

 

 

 

On our walk last night I passed a lot of neighbors in the flats-both banks. WE are a residential neighborhood. We peacefully coexist with most of our business neighbors, but we have drawn the line. NOT ONE resident I have spoken to is in favor of this. What does that say?

 

I agree, you and your neighbors should have a voice in this or a "seat at the discussion table".  Not one of us it telling you to just suck it up, but without knowing anything but whats been represented in the media. 

 

Seriously, what is to say that this business "strip" cannot become a assest to the neighborhood/downtown.  Has anyone seriously looked at any ancillary legitimate business this could spawn.  We're very quick to say "no"  or NIMBY but has anyone done any projections on how this could be managed, make money and coincide peacefully within a growing neighborhood?

"Seriously, what is to say that this business "strip" cannot become a assest to the neighborhood/downtown.  Has anyone seriously looked at any ancillary legitimate business this could spawn.  We're very quick to say "no"  or NIMBY but has anyone done any projections on how this could be managed, make money and coincide peacefully within a growing neighborhood?"

 

well the scholarly research says, adult book stores , prostitution, crime,peep shows...I posted a link earlier in this thread. I do not want to risk my neighborhood to this. I am not willing to be an experiment to see if we can be the first "successful" adult entertainment area in a residential area. 

 

 

"Seriously, what is to say that this business "strip" cannot become a assest to the neighborhood/downtown.  Has anyone seriously looked at any ancillary legitimate business this could spawn.  We're very quick to say "no"  or NIMBY but has anyone done any projections on how this could be managed, make money and coincide peacefully within a growing neighborhood?"

 

well the scholarly research says, adult book stores , prostitution, crime,peep shows...I posted a link earlier in this thread. I do not want to risk my neighborhood to this. I am not willing to be an experiment to see if we can be the first "successful" adult entertainment area in a residential area.  

 

 

 

Yes but the type of business you source are not the type of business that are there.  Those are upscale gentleman's clubs.  not two-dollar-a-dance-hole in the wall joints.

 

Yes but the type of business you source are not the type of business that are there.  Those are upscale gentleman's clubs.  not two-dollar-a-dance-hole in the wall joints.

 

please refrain from calling a strip club a "hole in the wall joint"

 

Or perhaps that was intentional.

 

Either way, ew

 

well there is no stopping what could go in there and what kind of spin off business could crop up. We cant say oh, we only want "fancy" clubs. Management and ownership change -well this may not be true as they are all pretty much connected to one or two "factions" if you catch my drift( If not don't ask). It is hard to get rid of a bad biz once it takes hold. All the shootings and chaos at Mirage..and the city keeping saying they want to shut it down (essentially through revoking the liquor licence) and they have not yet. SO I can trust them to keep this crap under control?

^remember when Moda was an "upscale" night club?

^remember when Moda was an "upscale" night club?

 

excellent point..it took help form the feds I believe to close in on that nightmare. I do not want to lose my original thought that  the stigma of adult clubs is bad-regardless if they are "good" or bad clubs. There is no shame for most go celebrate one night here in there, but to live in such an area (a red light district) is  not accpectable from an investiment or quality of life standpoint.  We have too much evidence in the city to prove my point (and nationally too)

Stage 2 (isn't that the name of the other strip club) isn't what I'd call upscale in the least. I've never been there, but it doesn't look fancy at all.

^I have finally lured you in. virtual hugs! Now if I can get MTS victory will be mine! You gotta be a Family Guy Fan to to understand that.

^I have finally lured you in. virtual hugs! Now if I can get MTS victory will be mine! You gotta be a Family Guy Fan to to understand that.

 

OK Stewie!  HA!

Crains has an article about this today (6/25/07). Can one of you all who subscibe do me a solid and post....thanks a million!

i don't see the article anywhere. Can you provide a link?

Crains has an article about this today (6/25/07). Can one of you all who subscibe do me a solid and post....thanks a million!

 

" a solid"  lawd.  I don't know who is more old school...you or mrnyc!

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/assets/pdf/CC21767622.PDF

http://www.crainscleveland.com/assets/pdf/CC21768622.PDF

Yeah, what does that mean, btw.

lawd...you yung'uns!

 

"a solid" is "a favor".  :mrgreen: