thanks for the link. If I end up in the bottom of my beloved river in cement shoes for this you know who to go to first

thanks for the link. If I end up in the bottom of my beloved river in cement shoes for this you know who to go to first

 

hummm, ColDayMan?  he he he

There is a community meeting regarding this matter at Spaces Gallery on WED June 27 (tomorrow) at 7PM, I honestly cannot report the truth w/o soundling sarcastic -the "facts" according to Cimperman regarding this are too ridiculous to even be believed. Buyer to city beware. Never though it would be me saying this. Close to 1000 pro city posts, I assure you I have no agenda

^well, you end up sounding a bit too sarcastic or a bit too biased unless you state of the "facts".

the facts are the preponderance of research studies (with the exception of those funded by the adult entertainment industry) finds adult entertainment zones have crime and property devaluation issues. the "facts" are in the above links already posted and our own city ordinance also posted had the same finding.  Those of you that are Urban College students can go to ask your professors what they think if you have any confusion about my "bias" (sorry, lol).  Much of the info I obtained regarding this matter came from this department.   I asked the Councilman why Hustler cannot be relocated to another accessible location near downtown that is not next to a park or residential area and does not require a zoning change and I was told "hustler picked the Crooked River Building" no other alternative are on the table despite my suggestion of some. Please come see for yourself at the meeting. Councilman cimperman said the independent research I presented to him is not correct and their is no crime/complaints around any adult clubs downtown and this will not cause residential property devaluation (when all evidence says otherwise).  This simply is not true for one, but second they are in areas that do not have the population to complain. Finally even if I were making this up, the reality is the public perception if these places, esp one named after a hard core porn magazine is not positive.  We never would have bought in the flats had I known this would happen (and perhaps more important that the city would make such a big move w/o approaching stakeholders first, and then when they did protest, treat them as if they no longer matter).   As people recall people that bought into the Stonebridge complex helped build confidence in the beauty of urban living in this community and which in turn helped build value in the Wolstein project.  If Hustler is such a great business why not save space for it on F.E.B? Does it not fit in with trying to lure more people downtown?   

 

Further there is no parking, it will be made worse when lots convert to parks.   There have been a few people that are able to say wow, Cimperman is an OK guy but this is foolish. and they have told him so. however if anyone would like to stand in defense of this I would love to hear the argument other than : "I blindly support my leaders"  " or we need to move the east bank forward" I find it curious the only way to do this is to rezone the flats to a red light district. Do people really think this is good for the whole community? You may think your neighborhood is safe from this type of thing, but what would stop this for happening in other parts of the city? As you may know some leadership in OC is watching this like a hawk and concerned. They have already spoken out (including in the press- I already posted this, BTW).  You may further say you and your neighbors would protest to stop such a thing, but I was told regardless of what the constituents and stakeholders think the City is going forward. If you think I am not serious ask the Councilman and Chief of Staff yourself. I am not trying to pick on anyone, but this hard to defend this with any logic. Unless someone just likes to argue.  I wish I could be more tactful, but I have toned it down a  lot. BTW since we are we not sarcastic around here?  :-)

Residents criticize strip club district

Thursday, June 28, 2007

Patrick O'Donnell

Plain Dealer Reporter

 

Plain Dealer article removed for lack of link

Ok so many issues with this! there were 90 plus people there at one time....and took they most off handed quote. Although true...I would have no problem renting here short term- however public perception (especially people that buy "luxury" condos ) do not support living in red light district. It is a poor investment in my mind (and anyone who does any research in real estate appreciation or customer perception). I have a wide range of types of place I will live and have lived however it is common sense if you purchase something in a higher than average price range, you are going to get buyers that want more (amenities, image, quality of life etc) If we had spent $40,000 for funky little warehouse and rentovated it for ourselves and then resold to an artist in a similar price range that would be one thing.  I have a pretty narrow market I can resell too and they do not think a strip area is good. Also this reporter is calling it "apartments" these are homeowners here, not renters. It is a big difference. we cant just move when the lease is up if we don't like it. I do not think this article captured the energy and passion of not just SB people but big city boosters in adjacent communities that are deeply ashamed by this. Many  professionals kept asking-arent we who you want in the city...? heard "we are the ones who talk our friends in to moving to the city from the suburbs ..and to Cleveland from out of state and we have been shamed".  I hate the quote they put in there, but how people feel is that once the people have bought in the city to the heck with them, the city will move on to the next projects interests. It makes for a fractured city.  Even if I had not invested financially in this area, I invested emotionally and I am crushed by the poor planning and insight demonstrated by our leaders.

*Ahem* [email protected]

I know, I know. I have such a deep mistrust of communicating with the PD..I guess I will have to contact him esp about the apartment thing.   

I know, I know. I have such a deep mistrust of communicating with the PD..I guess I will have to contact him esp about the apartment thing.   

I think, rather feel, that "apartment" and "condo" can be used interchangeably.  I live in a condo and I use the phrase, "my apartment" all the time.  I know you're trying to make the point that you OWN your home though.

When you're in peabody's situation - it's essential to convey property ownership. There's nothing wrong with renting, rentals, etc. - but the perception is that they haven't made the level of investment in their neighborhood as homeowners have.

I would definitely contact O'Donnell. I always appreciate constructive, intelligent feedback, especially from people directly affected by the story I'm following.

..l. I always appreciate constructive, intelligent feedback, especially from people directly affected by the story I'm following.

that is probably why you dont work for the PD   :wink:.... alright, I will give the guy a chance and contact him later.

I found it interesting that the story was accompanied by a photo of a woman speaking out in favor of the strip district.  This woman has a lot of pull with the local CDC and is the same person who leads the NIMBY opposition to just about any redevelopment in or near Duck Island, including CMHA's Riverview redevelopment.  What exactly is her vision for the neighborhood?

What was HER name?

Vinci?

 

Well, I wasn't going to name names.  Just make identification.

Never mind.

I just went to the cleveland.com page and saw my cousin (2nd cousin actually)

 

Flats office building owner Rosemary Vinci was one of the few residents to support the adult-entertainment zoning plan in hopes of allowing redevelopment to revive a struggling city and neighborhood.

 

 

Ah yes, Madame LaRue (Her radio show name. She was fired after holding a fake orgasm contest on the air -- see below).

 

She also was the one who brandished a shotgun while chasing Waterfront Line surveyors from her Flats property, Shorty's Diner. There are other tales of woe involving her ownership stake and other involvement in some questionable businesses in Clark-Metro and other neighborhoods.

 

She's connected politically to Tom Coyne, Jimmy DiMora and reportedly a business associate of Tony George. Any questions as to why she's supportive of the strip district?

___________________________

 

Cleveland News Index

 

Title:

        * WJMO-FM fires Rosemary Vinci, aka Madam LaRue, after contest flap

 

In:

        * Plain Dealer 29 Aug, 1992, pg. 05 sec. D

 

+++++++++++++++++

 

Title:

        * WZJM deejay Rosemary Vinci fired; ends the female morning team test; Vinci had an "attitude problem," station owner says

 

In:

        * Plain Dealer 08 Mar, 1994, pg. 15 sec. E

I love my family!

 

That's my mom's side... you should see my dad's.

yes. I was wondering who this famed lady was...I hate to say it but every knew she was a plant for the "business"...even Cimperman and Silliiman were sweating bullets b/c they knew we would see right through her if she has to speak. They avoided calling on her until her strong man insited she get to speak. Several people sent tips  my way to expect her. We were all laughing b/c so many pople said intelligent things and she got up and cameras were snapping. frankly the dumdest thing I said (despite being true) was quoted by the PD.  For the record if  this $hit happens (3 clubs) and I can sell my unit, I would like to stay in the flats as a renter. the neighborhood is the best.  I just am not going to invest big $$ to live in a red light district. She tried to paint us as a bunch of uptight yuppies and asked "how many of you  people have actually been to a strip club" well a huge number raised their hand..People yelled we dont want to live near them all! Musky you have an intertesting family!

*Ahem* [email protected]

ok it was done earlier I tried to clarify. I am sure it will get twisted that I am want to move to north royalton or something. ...I only wish we had a KJP to tell the story right. sigh. hint.

I know that two more will definitely add more business to the area, but how come no one has ever mentioned that they had no problem moving in next to an existing strip club? It seems somewhat hypocritical. Still, I think that this is a 'lesser of two evils' decision by the city.

 

Peabody, do you really think that Hustler would want to go just anywhere in the city? You know that they wouldn't, so I think its disingenuous to suggest that they'd be ok with moving to any old empty building in the city. I've heard that Hustler pretty much twisted the city's arm on this one and wouldn't budge. They wanted one building and told the city that if they don't get it that they would not sell. Flint has a lot of cash and he said that one or two million more from Wolstein wouldn't make a difference to him.  

 

Also, I don't see Cleveland becoming the laughing stock of city planning classrooms. City planning is not taught that way.

 

That said, I think that this whole situation s*cks. It will affect Stonebridge. It may not have a huge affect, but it will slow down growth. KD is lucky that almost all of the proposed development moves towards the north.

as I have mentioned before Diamonds is subtle low key business that no one has an issue with. People bought knowing it was there. Residents have an issue with THREE clubs and a strip club district designation. As I may have mentioned it is not just SB that has issues but some of the smaller housing units and well, people that love Cleveland are concerned about this and have made their voice heard. People do know is complicated from a zoning perspective but allowing only hustler  may be acceptable to some people if the signage were discreet,and entrance not on center street. As it happens many people in the area be they from SB or elsewhere have found the administration to respond to citizens very dismissively.  We need to respect the people that live in the flats, will be visiting, and the maybe even the Larry Flint business it self.  the only reason this would be acceptable should people come around (well compromise..no one wants it)  is b/c they have been a reported to be a well behaved business . Having only hustler has not been offered as an option...there has to be zoning for three which is currently a deal breaker... Yes the reason for the city having to propose 3 are very complicated but the city created this monster by announcing a "blue light" district and recommending rezoning(redistricting) an area adjacent to a newly formed residentail neighborhood.  I have been told this is indeed seen as a joke by people watching this.  What city that we look up to is creating these zones w/in a 1000 ft of  so called"upscale" owner occupancy residential? As responsible as Larry Flint club is alledged to be...it is amazing and sad the city adminsitration and the citizens are brought to their knees by one powerful business. That is why I do not like chains in general.

 

I know Larry Flint CLub wants to be in the flats, but can't there be any flexibility as to where?  My question is- the City is always trying to shut down the crime ridden  Mirage ...it is a great location. why  not put it there?

Peabody, as a SB resident and as a female, you're thoughts on this are insightful... Personally, I think this stinks.  I had a girlfriend in Philly who, for a time, lived near a major strip joint.  Light prostitution arose in the parking lot and I often had to walk my GF thru the area -- esp at night -- b/c she'd be harassed variously by customers and/or johns.

 

I think the Strip proposal sucks.  I agree that Diamonds alone is rather low key and kinda out of the way.  Now, this area promises to become a Cleveland version of Baltimore's infamous Block.  But it's way to close to Stonebridge and its proposed super expansion -- just a quick stroll over Center St. Bridge... What were planners thinking (or not thinking)?  Did the Port Authority (and or the CPC) simply panic and cave in so as to settle with Flynt -- who just (slickly) spent thousands in reno work on his place knowing he's dead in the middle of Wolstein's footprint?  Why stick this stripper's alley almost adjacent to the largest and one of the few really significant, new high density developments in downtown?  In all of Cleveland, for that matter!?  And you can bet, like roaches, other 'clubs' are going to pop up around the edges despite pius talk by officials... Do our public officials really have their collective heads that far up there arses?

 

And let's face it, this area is not all that far from Wolstein's planned development either... For someone who loved the old Flats just a decade ago, does this Strip Dist as part of its new incarnation really excite anyone? -- oops, sorry, poor choice of words.

 

And the fact that this area is already designated as the strip area -- which you know will morph into a red light district-- is bad news.  I know, peabody, you said SB residents are understandably upset about this, but is Bob Corna speaking on this issue?  This could potentially, obviously, negatively impact the value of Stonebridge.

Bob corna spoke in Crains against this -there is a link several posts ago. it was front page. They have been rather quiet lately though. think of this way. they city is doing all kinds of favors for Wolstein now..then it will be forest city..once it was stonebridge, but now they are done.  on ward an upward. Of course forest city land has all kinds of great places to do hustler stand alone...but oh no, that does not fit in with their future image of vibrant living so they are not being told by the administration of the city they have to take this like we do. we are the suckers whose ink is dry on contract and ironically I am sure cost less to the city than FEB.  to people that say we have diamonds, what is a few more, I will steal the best analogy I have heard in a long time from a non profit leader at the meeting. He said strip clubs are like manure when you spread them around we all are ok and some may even prosper. stack them together and you are left with  a stinking pile of  $hit.

the first hearing  is WED July 11 at 11AM . Mercedes Cotner Commitee room 217. CITY HALL. the notice is very cryptic and says nothing about adult entertainment which is on purpose for sure. It says to change use from General industry, a B district, to ....a "K" district with no explination to the public what K means. ...If anyone is concerned about what this means for not just the neighborhood but the whole Cleveland area for that matter, please attend and be heard.   

I wonder if Tom Coyne will be at the hearing and do his "side of the road" strip-tease dance -- which means he gets drunk and naked then goes to sleep in a police car's spotlight.

 

I hear it's all the rage these days.

the first hearing  is WED July 11 at 11AM . Mercedes Cotner Commitee room 217. CITY HALL. the notice is very cryptic and says nothing about adult entertainment which is on purpose for sure. It says to change use from General industry, a B district, to ....a "K" district with no explination to the public what K means. ...

 

that's pretty standard notification.

Yes, it is. And it's not just a Cleveland thing. Most of the suburbs I've covered also use the same type of language (including on ballot issues for zoning changes).

I received th police calls from huslter yesterday. Councilman said there are "no complaints" from this address. oh really? rape? numerous fights, high dancers, threatening customers?  There are also things nothing to do with hustler-ie breaking into cars, but some of the calls are disturbing. Further, these calls are likely coming from managment and customers. there is no residential or businesses as close as we have here, once you put this in here I am sure it will only be worse b/c there will be more witnesses and victims.  Oh yes, this will help our community!

hearing today one step closer to having Larry as my neighbor. Interesting, there was an architect there in the beginning stages of getting plans approved near the corner or center and Columbus. They would be closer than us. sorry no info, I am hoping KJP is on it. anyway while the link works see channel 19- they're "everywhere" (say this in your best whispery voice!). It is the hustler/flats link

 

http://www.woio.com/

^um, if you referring to what I've heard, then its a pretty large project.

^um, if you referring to what I've heard, then its a pretty large project.

235 units...plus there is another under the bridge by the canal basin in the dream stage. I say this is what we need not a red light zone. We may be a pretty accepting bunch, but most people even those that go to strip clubs dont want to live next to one. 

Crain's:

 

Plans for strip club district move ahead

By JAY MILLER

 

3:28 pm, July 11, 2007

 

Article Removed for lack of link

ha! I know that Mike Pelsozy.

Ordinance No. 990-07

Council Member Cimperman

 

AN EMERGENCY ORDINANCE That the Codified Ordinances of Cleveland, Ohio, 1976, are supplemented by enacting new Section 343.13 relating to entertainment overlay (EO) district.

 

Whereas, this ordinance constitutes an emergency measure providing for the usual daily operation of a municipal department; now, therefore, BE IT ORDAINTED BY THE COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF CLEVELAND:

 

Section 1. That the Codified Ordinances of Cleveland, Ohio, 1976, are supplemented by enacting new Section 343.13 to read as follows:

 

Section 343.13 Entertainment Overlay (EO) District

 

(a) Purpose. The Entertainment Overlay District is established to provide appropriate locations for entertainment uses that serve a citywide or regional market and that are generally incompatible with areas characterized by a concentration of residential uses and uses serving children. In establishing the Entertainment Overlay District, this Council considered the findings stated in division (a) of Section 347.07 and incorporates those findings in this section.

 

(b) Applicability. The Entertainment Overlay shall be mapped to supplement an underlying zoning district. Regulations of the underlying zoning district shall govern except where in conflict with regulations of the Entertainment District, in which case the regulations of the Entertainment District shall govern. The findings stated in Section 347.07 and the location regulations contained in that section, as well as any location regulations applicable to the other uses permitted in an Entertainment Overlay District, shall be considered when an Entertainment Overlay District is mapped. An Entertainment Overlay district shall be mapped only in General Retail Business Districts and Industrial Districts.

 

© Permitted Uses. Only the following uses are permitted in an Entertainment Overlay District.

 

1) All main and accessory uses permitted in the underlying zoning district.

2) Night clubs, dance halls, game rooms, pool halls, video arcades, bowling alleys, skating rinks, theaters, movie theaters and similar uses providing entertainment and recreation services.

3) Restaurants, bars, taverns, banquet halls, catering halls and similar uses serving food for consumption on the premises.

4) “Adult Entertainment” uses as defined in Section 347.07 of the Zoning Code and as regulated in that section.

 

(d) Number and location of Adult Entertainment Uses. Not more than one “adult entertainment” use shall be permitted for each one (1) acres of “land area” in an Entertainment Overlay District. Otherwise, adult entertainment uses shall be permitted without the location restrictions in division © of Section 347.07.

 

(e) Definitions. As used in this section, “land area” means all contiguous land within an Entertainment Overlay District, including land occupied by public streets, but excluding areas occupied by rivers and lakes.

 

Section 2. That this ordinance is declared to be an emergency measure and, provided it receives the affirmative vote of two-thirds of all of the members elected to Council, it shall take effect and be in force from and after the earliest allowed by law.

 

6-11-07

For: Council Member Cimperman

 

 

 

 

 

I laughed when I saw "emergency" on this.  is this what our slow acting council calls an "emergency"... putting strip clubs next to our parks and residences? lol! hope this does not come  to a neighborhood near you kids...oh yes they "promised" they would not be anywhere else. show me anywhere in the US they are changing ordinances to put these places next to residentail, parks, schools ect? There is a reason why there is zoning for this stuff. times like this make it hard to be an advocate of the city. I am wondering how they will photo shop out the triple xxx club signs on center street for the Cleveland calender shots of the swing bridge and skyline.  Someone protect us for the protectors!

Amsterdam's red light district isn't a big residential area, but it is a big tourist area (mostly gawkers looking at the wild street scene).

It may not be, but not more than one or two blocks away there are plenty of residential buildings...I have been there more than once...so I know.  That does sound naughty...  :-D

 

Plus the red light district that I first visited four or five years ago was nowhere near as clean as the one I saw the last two years.  So, when you put your mind to it, things (even "naughty" things) can be made/re-made for the better.

So now they will only add one more strip club..

 

 

Strip club measure stripped down

 

By JAY MILLER

 

1:19 pm, July 20, 2007

 

 

 

The city of Cleveland has reduced the size of the planned Flats adult entertainment district to accommodate one fewer strip club.

 

The plan would allow Larry Flynt's Hustler Club, a strip club on the East Bank of the Flats that stands in the way of the Wolstein Group’s Flats East Bank project, to move but stay in the Flats. However, the reduction in size would prevent the city from moving another new club there as well.

 

The City Planning Commission this morning approved creation of a 2.7-acre adult entertainment district instead of the 3-acre district originally proposed. Zoning regulations allow one adult entertainment club per acre in the district.

 

The Diamond Men’s Club already operates in the new district. The city originally intended to move a third club into the area but modified its plan in the face of opposition from residents of the nearby Stonebridge residential complex.

 

Some opposition remains.

 

“I don’t think that’s a happy compromise,” Lynlee Nordgren, a Stonebridge resident, told the Planning Commission. “This is an embarrassment.”

 

 

as a non-stakeholding observer, it seems like a good compromise

as a non-stakeholding observer, it seems like a good compromise

 

I do as well.

as a non-stakeholding observer, it seems like a good compromise

 

I agree. I don't see how one more club in that area is really going to greatly affect the neighborhood.

Some of the same people who where for the casino ballot issue that would probably l;and a casino on the west bank are against this issue.  A casino really does not attract the finest of society.  Sure there is a mix, but I definately see more issues arrising around a casino.  Especially with the nickel and quarter slots.  Secondly, most casino's will have some spin off developement that includes strip bars.  In Philly, and I am sure most are aware, South street is loaded with sex stores and a couple peep show places.  Off the side streets of South are beautiful downtown neighborhoods that are developing at a rapid clip.  I guess, when living downtown, you are forced to co-exist with all types of society.  Diversity is what drives the economy and vibrancy of a cosmopolitan downtown neighborhood.  The reason Cleveland died in the 60's was because of the fear of diversity.  A strip bar really by all means should not decrease the value of one's property.  Would I ever go in one, maybe 30 years ago, but not any more.  Would I fear living next to one, no, not at all.  To me. it's just a bar, just like any other bar.  If two people drink a little too much, they might be forced out on the street to fight.  That happens at all bars.  If there is a severe problem around the strip bars, or any bar at that matter, it's not the bars fault, it's the CPD's fault.  Just like the demise of the east bank flats was their fault.

as a non-stakeholding observer, it seems like a good compromise

I think that the concern remains that Center St. remains the District's northern boundary.  I'd rather have a larger district, but one that is buffered from the main west bank crossing.

of course just hustler is better than Hustler plus mystery meat strip club . It is hard to be excited about this outcome. Still it sits on the tow path. right at the swing bridge. right across the street from me. also they are now doing a total tear down of the crooked river building. So why not put is somewhere else more appropriate if you are going to do new contruction? Our only hope is this will not  be huge and gaudy with a big surface lot in the front and giant pink lights. How much power does  a design review committee have to restrict things like signage, design and entrances...and the parking lot location? How can a new contruction strip club (usually windowless and stark) fit in by the swing bridge?

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/118500741485590.xml&coll=2&thispage=2

 

Flats strip district has support of Cleveland planners

They're still not crazy about the idea, but say city must redevelop east bank

Saturday, July 21, 2007

Tom Breckenridge

Plain Dealer Reporter

 

City planners support a strip-joint district in the Flats that's a short walk from a fast-growing residential complex and a planned park that will draw thousands of people yearly.

 

The Cleveland City Planning Commission voted unanimously Friday for an adult-entertainment district, but they were not happy about it.

Peabody, I hear your pain.  This was a shaky compromise from the git-go, but it's a tad more palatable now, you'd have to agree.  People like you at Stonebridge speaking out on this sent our sometimes wrongly pols running for cover.  Hustler, and it's predecessor Circus, sat in the middle of the thriving E. Bank for years and there wasn't much trouble from what I've seen.  If it's just Diamond's and Flynt, in a building similar in size to the current ORR joint, it may not be so bad so long as we can push it as far back away from Center St as possible (I've been traveling and may have missed it -- is there a specific site where Flynt's going or is it still a general area near Diamond's in the Summer/Winter street area?

 

Don't forget, Christy's is huge over next to Shooters and the Shooter's lot is usually full on weekend nights -- and I'm sure a good chunk of those cars are for Chisty's, yet I don't see a lot of trouble there (of course, I don't live down there).  We tend to fear the street-crime prostitution aspect outside these clubs, but most of that stuff goes on inside these joints from my (very) limited, longtime ago exp hanging out w/ the guys (just looking at the girls on stage, mind you, nothing more).  More often than not, it seems there's not much going on outside.  Frankly, and sadly as we've seen, you're more likely to find more 'trouble' outside our more typical live-band, dive-bar joints (ie, Spy Bar, Blind Pig, etc) than with the strip joints, where I take it, a lot of customers coming and going don't want to be all that visible anyway.

 

The XXX book joint on W. 9th in the WHD, now spruced up and called "Adult Mart" has sat in that location for years, but WHD still thrives and grows all around it (including excellent Constantino's supermarket across the street) as though the place doesn't exist.

 

In Philly, and I am sure most are aware, South street is loaded with sex stores and a couple peep show places.  Off the side streets of South are beautiful downtown neighborhoods that are developing at a rapid clip.

 

I'm not quite sure which areas you mean, gotribe... South St. is loaded with so many clubs, restaurants, grunge-joints, live stages, tan/piercing parlors, tarot reading places, etc., even a couple full-service grocery stores, it's really hard for me to pinpoint where any skin joints are.  Philly has a number of Gent clubs, but as far as I've known, none are concentrated in Center City, where residential, restaurant, office and entertainment expansion is off the hook.  The main sex-club "alley's" tend to be in out of the way industrial-type areas of South Philly (some looking like the industrial Flats), away from growth areas.  Others are in South Jersey across the Delaware river.

 

Let's hope the compromise of just Flynt seriously limits impact these clubs could have...

Well I am not sure about where the newly built club should be situated...further back from streets means an ugly parking lot in front. A lot of the reason the east bank failed was no one cared about what went on there. Now you have people that care, and we are told we should be happy to have the club of a guy who is depicted children in his porn, women being tortured and is involved with organized crime,had sex with an animals and then killed it (in his own autobiography). Look at the big picture- we are a city who is saying basically the city will fail (if east bank fails)if we do not give into the demands of this hard core pornographer. While there is 2% of Larry F I respect-the one who catches hypocritical politicans with their pant down, the rest it not positive.   That is what they are saying. As it sit typing this in the computer room of my building, a large party for a 2 year child is about to start. This is becoming a great neighborhood...why taint it? Diamonds managed to be low key AND IT IS OUT OF THE WAY, but Hustler is not known for that. Someone mentioned above they would own property in a red light district. well, If I limit the people I can sell too to over grown frat boys (not saying you are a guy, overgrown or even in a frat) then maybe there is a chance I can sell my place in the future.  As I have mentioned renting in the area is low risk, but home ownership takes on a new twist. Christies looks gaudy as heck, but it really is not in the flight path of the neighborhood- it basically is the end of the road as far as the neighborhood goes. Now can someone weigh in on why Hustler HAD to have this location if they are going to build a new structure? It doesnt bother anyone that they go pick where they want to do buiness and the city helps them by rezoning....What will Hustler do for this community?   How will they contribute?

^ You'll get no argument from me. If I was in charge, I'd force all of those places into an industrial area of town away from anyone's neighborhood. I don't understand why strip clubs even have a choice where they can locate their businesses.