^kjbrill, for several years I've followed your posts on the "CityData" forum, so here I'm doing two things--first, welcoming you to "UO," but (secondly) questioning what benefit this forum will be to you, a confirmed suburbanite.  Here you'll be mixing up your mindset with architects, designers, engineers, artists, civic planners, photographers, merchants, and other business people who cherish urban living and urban ideals.  Thus, I wondering if UrbanOhio will be a comfortable fit for you.  (just asking)

 

I just thought I would come over for the benefit of the great intellects on this forum, though I will admit to being concerned about matching ideas with the distinguished legions you mention, as my 45 years plus as an engineer might not stand up.

 

I believe I understand a little about urban living, but just exactly what is an urban ideal?

^ hey! Anyone can join this forum.  This isn't exclusively for any opinions, and while we all agree on many things, outsiders are always welcome.

 

^I'm well aware of the above (and also that I've not been appointed "U/O Sergeant-At-Arms"), but I've also witnessed what happens here when certain contributors sway from the general consensus of the group.  They are reminded, firmly, that THEY are out of line, by several self-appointed "U/O Inquisitors," etc., and that they better shape up or else.  Do I speak the truth or not?

^ actually, at this point it seems you are the one who is treading on out of line.  jkbrill simply stated he hadn't been downtown for anything other than Music Hall and Aronoff performances (partially for accessibility reasons) and you seemed to warn him that since he's not an engineer (which apparently he is)/urbanist he might not be welcome. 

 

Mods only interject when someone is being disrespectful/over the top/taking the conversation off topic, NOT simply for disagreeing with potentially valid points.

 

 

<b>So with that--  Back on Topic:</b>

 

I've been told the City plans to remove the original stretches of Skywalk first (the non-indoor segments) as they are traditionally in the worst shape.  Removing the enclosed ones (Over 5th between Race & Vine for example) are not part of the plan at this time.

I've also mixed it up with kjbrill on the C-D forum in the past. Unfortunately at that place, if you're pro-city or pro-Cincinnati, you'll get ganged up on rather quickly by the naysayers. I guess my hope is that by joining this forum, he'll gain a new perspective on what's going on in the city as opposed to the one-sided hysteria he sees on the local news or reads on Cincinnati.com. And by reviving this old thread, it looks as if he is indeed perusing some of what's been written here.

 

Welcome kjbrill, it's an entirely different world here.

 

As to the skywalk, I wonder why the dead-end branch extending east from the Macy's building hasn't been demolished. It's as big an eyesore as there is downtown. And I can't imagine that any new construction at Fifth and Race would want to re-use it or incorporate it into their design.

 

 

The discussion about kjbrill being welcome ends right now. All opinions are welcome on this forum as long as they are respectfully presented.

 

Welcome, kjbrill.

I believe I understand a little about urban living, but just exactly what is an urban ideal?

 

Read more: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,2822.30.html#ixzz1lXBBcrvO

 

Being able to live safely and comfortably in a densely populated environment which is more oriented towards transit than driving (though both are still an option).  See San Francisco, Boston, a good chunk of Chicago, and New York City.

 

Much of this forum would agree with me that Cincinnati has the basic ingredients (Build of the buildings and neighborhoods particularly OTR) but is lacking in the execution (transit is lacking, retail isn't to the level where you get an environment like the cities above for the most part).

^Agreed.  Although I've heard it's going to be "decorated" for the World Choir Games.  Not sure what that means. 

 

I'm surprised during the tough budgets of the past city Council never turned it into a billboard to make some money :P  I kid...

 

What is interesting is that when the "end of the Skywalk" was declared people assumed ALL of it was coming down pretty quickly.  Instead, we're about 7 years out and only a few portions have come down and the impact has been great (correlation, not causation) as downtown is more vibrant, has more residents & is significantly less 9-5 than it had been.

 

This is the portion coming down this weekend:

I'm actually surprised at the number of skywalks removed over the past few years. This is a total non-priority as officials could simply close them off to pedestrian traffic once they became a maintenance nuissance, but instead the city is actually ponying up capital dollars to tear them down.

 

Kudos to the city for that. Aside from the two near Fountain Square/Tower Place, I can't wait until they are all gone.

^I like P&G's over Broadway.  There isn't much on the street over there and it connects their HQ with a neighboring P&G building.  Other than those few exceptions, I look forward to them all being history as well.

P&G's, the Kroger one, and a couple others are privately owned. The City won't be taking those down ever.

I always found the bit that connects Fifth Third Center with the 580 Building across Walnut to be particularly useful.

P&G's, the Kroger one, and a couple others are privately owned. The City won't be taking those down ever.

 

Good to know.

^ hey! Anyone can join this forum.  This isn't exclusively for any opinions, and while we all agree on many things, outsiders are always welcome.

 

More of the skywalk was removed this month. Portions over race north of 6th are coming down now and the part in Rusconi Place is also down.

 

KJbrill makes a good point though: while the Renaissance in downtown has dramatically increased the number of restaurants bars and general activities & livelihood (skating, concerts, etc.) when it comes to retail Americans are still largely in preference to the larger suburban mall styles. None of the renaissance of downtown has led to a dramatic increase in retail.  tower Place mall is actually now more empty than ever, while the store fronts of the surrounding buildings are all full of great restaurants.

 

I know this is slightly OT from the skywalk discussion, but I slightly disagree that Americans prefer larger suburban malls to urban shopping.  The problem as I see it is that for the majority of Americans, most retail outlets are only available in the form of strip malls and enclosed megamalls.  The failure of Tower Place is as much because they tried a suburban mall in an urban setting than because of the fact it was located downtown.  Look at the volume of people who flock to NYC or the Magnificent Mile in Chicago to shop - these are shopping destinations and they are not in mall settings.  The key is, as with so much else, critical mass.  Only having a one-off Gap or Williams-Sonoma isn't going to attract enough patrons to support the businesses.  I believe if you took all of the stores in Kenwood Towne Center and put them in storefronts in a somewhat concentrated area of downtown, it would grow and thrive. 

 

As for the skywalks, I agree that the one between the 580 Building and Fifth Third always came in handy.  It almost acted as a funnel for people in the 580 Building to Fountain Square.

Frankly, when I first came into this thread and read about certain sections of the Skywalk coming down I thought they were the final remnants. I got that idea from remembering how many years ago it was announced the Skywalk was considered archaic and would be demolished. I was very surprised to learn how much of it is still standing.

 

To say that Tower Place Mall is a failure because it tried to emulate a suburban enclosed mall I think is a real stretch. The failure is simply a lack of retail customers.

 

As a youth I remember going downtown with my mother for a day of shopping. We tramped alll over the place, Shillito's, McAlpins, Mabley & Crew, Pogues, it was quite a workout. We came down on the bus and went home the same way. Actually they were originally streetcars which then gave way to trolley buses.

But it was very simple, suburban malls did not exist.

 

Once they built Kenwood Plaza that was the end of our shopping trips downtown. Just way more convenient going to the mall. In the same vein, the suburban mega-malls are falling out of vogue. You spend way too much time just getting in, walking a mile or so, and getting back out. If you look at most of the newer suburban malls they are open-air designs where you can usually park close to the store you are interested in and get in/out quickly.

 

That is the challenge I see for downtown retail. How do you concentrate enough stuff people want in a small enough footprint where quick in/out is realistic? The rejuvenation of downtown residential will certainly assist this, but I feel critical mass has a ways to go.

 

 

So what you are saying is people don't like the shopping mall model anymore because it forces them to burn some calories. The horror!

 

I agree that downtown doesn't have the critical mass of residents for a lot of things. I think certain things could work well, though. An Apple store at the Banks comes to mind. It's a destination store that caters to a young demographic that would appreciate the urban environment.

 

As for the skywalk coming down slowly, like mentioned above, demolition costs money, so it hasn't been a great priority. Call it fiscal restraint.

So what you are saying is people don't like the shopping mall model anymore because it forces them to burn some calories. The horror!

 

I agree that downtown doesn't have the critical mass of residents for a lot of things. I think certain things could work well, though. An Apple store at the Banks comes to mind. It's a destination store that caters to a young demographic that would appreciate the urban environment.

 

As for the skywalk coming down slowly, like mentioned above, demolition costs money, so it hasn't been a great priority. Call it fiscal restraint.

 

So you are telling me that maintenance of the Skywalk is less than its demolition? I guess if you do nothing but let it sit there and deteriorate that is true.

Frankly, when I first came into this thread and read about certain sections of the Skywalk coming down I thought they were the final remnants. I got that idea from remembering how many years ago it was announced the Skywalk was considered archaic and would be demolished. I was very surprised to learn how much of it is still standing.

 

To say that Tower Place Mall is a failure because it tried to emulate a suburban enclosed mall I think is a real stretch. The failure is simply a lack of retail customers.

 

As a youth I remember going downtown with my mother for a day of shopping. We tramped alll over the place, Shillito's, McAlpins, Mabley & Crew, Pogues, it was quite a workout. We came down on the bus and went home the same way. Actually they were originally streetcars which then gave way to trolley buses.

But it was very simple, suburban malls did not exist.

 

Once they built Kenwood Plaza that was the end of our shopping trips downtown. Just way more convenient going to the mall. In the same vein, the suburban mega-malls are falling out of vogue. You spend way too much time just getting in, walking a mile or so, and getting back out. If you look at most of the newer suburban malls they are open-air designs where you can usually park close to the store you are interested in and get in/out quickly.

 

That is the challenge I see for downtown retail. How do you concentrate enough stuff people want in a small enough footprint where quick in/out is realistic? The rejuvenation of downtown residential will certainly assist this, but I feel critical mass has a ways to go.

 

I stated that the failure of Tower Place Mall was in part, not entirely, because of being an enclosed, suburban style mall.  There were many other factors, including the fact that it was located downtown in an era where downtown was out of vogue, that led to its demise. 

 

Unfortunately, you are correct that one of the many reasons that "open air design malls," ergo strip centers, are so ubiquitous is because lazy, overweight Americans appreciate the fact that they can get from their cars to the front doors in as few calorie burning steps as possible.  One of the biggest strengths of urbanity is that restaurants, retail establishments, medical facilities, offices, residences, etc. are all accessible by foot.  That doesn't mean that they're all accessible in the fewest possible steps.  In fact, the trip (a walk at street level through a great neighborhood) can and should be as enjoyable as the destination. 

^ On a side note, I shop at the Macy's, Saks, and Brooks Brothers downtown fairly often.  If I drive, I usually park at a meter less than 50' away from their respective front doors.  When I go to Kenwood or Rookwood, it seems like I walk 10 times as far.

Once they built Kenwood Plaza that was the end of our shopping trips downtown. Just way more convenient going to the mall. In the same vein, the suburban mega-malls are falling out of vogue. You spend way too much time just getting in, walking a mile or so, and getting back out. If you look at most of the newer suburban malls they are open-air designs where you can usually park close to the store you are interested in and get in/out quickly.

 

That is the challenge I see for downtown retail. How do you concentrate enough stuff people want in a small enough footprint where quick in/out is realistic? The rejuvenation of downtown residential will certainly assist this, but I feel critical mass has a ways to go.

 

 

 

I agree with the mega malls comment. I would like to go to Kenwood more often but the fact that it takes me 20 minutes (sometimes more) to actually park and get in the mall. It's not enjoyable at all. They do have a couple places that you can walk right into, but it is still a pain.

The Mega Mall concept is falling out of vogue virtually country wide. Kenwood Towne Center has managed to hold its own pretty well but the few times I have been there recently it was pretty bare during the week. Tri-County is even worse, as it is pretty bare all the time. Of course Forest Fair, Cincinnati Mills, Cincinnati Mall whatever they are calling it now never really got of the ground from day one. Northgate and Eastgate malls have both had their problems.

 

The concept of going to a mall and spending most of the day wandering from store to store and "shopping" is just not what most people desire today.

 

Open air designs like Bridgewater Falls in Hamilton, Deerfield Towne Center, Anderson Towne Center have been much more succesful. How to create this type of atmosphere in downtown Cincinnati is definitely a challenge.

How to create this type of atmosphere in downtown Cincinnati is definitely a challenge.

 

Urban areas are inherently suited to this type of atmosphere.

How to create this type of atmosphere in downtown Cincinnati is definitely a challenge.

 

Urban areas are inherently suited to this type of atmosphere.

 

I suppose that alludes to everything is in walking distance. But what is the distance? People have rejected the Mega-Mall and they will reject the downtown for the same reasons if it does not meet their criteria. Or have you discovered the new super race, physically fit, segment of our population which is going to take over? Please identify.

I suppose that alludes to everything is in walking distance. But what is the distance? People have rejected the Mega-Mall and they will reject the downtown for the same reasons if it does not meet their criteria. Or have you discovered the new super race, physically fit, segment of our population which is going to take over? Please identify.

 

Unlike a mega mall, which serves one purpose (shopping), an urban area contains a variety of uses in close proximity. I can walk from my office to a restaurant for lunch. I can walk from a downtown condo to a shop of some kind.  Yes, I'm probably not usually going to walk from one shop to another one a mile away (I think that's your point).

The Mega Mall concept is falling out of vogue virtually country wide. Kenwood Towne Center has managed to hold its own pretty well but the few times I have been there recently it was pretty bare during the week. Tri-County is even worse, as it is pretty bare all the time. Of course Forest Fair, Cincinnati Mills, Cincinnati Mall whatever they are calling it now never really got of the ground from day one. Northgate and Eastgate malls have both had their problems.

 

The concept of going to a mall and spending most of the day wandering from store to store and "shopping" is just not what most people desire today.

 

Open air designs like Bridgewater Falls in Hamilton, Deerfield Towne Center, Anderson Towne Center have been much more succesful. How to create this type of atmosphere in downtown Cincinnati is definitely a challenge.

 

Having been to Bridgewater Falls many times, I don't think it's an especially effective example of a lifestyle center.  It's open air but not really conducive to walking (partially due to the traffic flow, and partially because it has a very big footprint).  I could not picture myself walking from one side of the place to the other--you have to drive it, I think. 

 

Maybe that's what you're talking about, though--where you drive and park right at the specific store you are interested in, and don't spend any time looking at other stores?  In that case the ideal is really just a connected series of strip malls, I guess.

I suppose that alludes to everything is in walking distance. But what is the distance? People have rejected the Mega-Mall and they will reject the downtown for the same reasons if it does not meet their criteria. Or have you discovered the new super race, physically fit, segment of our population which is going to take over? Please identify.

 

Unlike a mega mall, which serves one purpose (shopping), an urban area contains a variety of uses in close proximity. I can walk from my office to a restaurant for lunch. I can walk from a downtown condo to a shop of some kind.  Yes, I'm probably not usually going to walk from one shop to another one a mile away (I think that's your point).

 

This would only apply if you find yourself downtown already, either living or working there.

 

Once there is a critical mass for it, any type of retail could thrive downtown. The contingency is getting enough residents living nearby to support X type of store. Today there aren't even enough housing options downtown to support some types of retail.

 

In the meantime, however, the retail market than can thrive needs to wake up a bit..restaurants and bars can only go so far. Apple Store and H&M are examples of retail outlets I think would be successful in the current state of downtown.

Or have you discovered the new super race, physically fit, segment of our population which is going to take over? Please identify.

 

...The concept of going to a mall and spending most of the day wandering from store to store and "shopping" is just not what most people desire today.

 

Uh, urbanites? People in walkable areas tend stay healthy for a much longer potion of their lives than ones in unwalkable areas. Sprawl effectively cuts off your legs.

 

Indeed, people don't have the time to just browse around a mall these days. The move to a 24/7 service economy has destroyed they idea of a 9-5 job for many, and all that time spent driving has eroded the free time of Americans.

Or have you discovered the new super race, physically fit, segment of our population which is going to take over? Please identify.

 

...The concept of going to a mall and spending most of the day wandering from store to store and "shopping" is just not what most people desire today.

 

Uh, urbanites? People in walkable areas tend stay healthy for a much longer potion of their lives than ones in unwalkable areas. Sprawl effectively cuts off your legs.

 

Indeed, people don't have the time to just browse around a mall these days. The move to a 24/7 service economy has destroyed they idea of a 9-5 job for many, and all that time spent driving has eroded the free time of Americans.

 

And people who have concerns about this have more than ample opportunity to counteract it. I should tell all the people I see either just walking or jogging in my neighborhood they must realize it is impossible to keep physically fit in suburbia. And the number of fitness centers we have within 2 miles almost equals the number of pizza joints and that is saying something. People concerned about their health will actually pay to keep it up.

 

At 72 I don't go out of my way to walk. But I venture to say I probably walk more in 2 rounds of golf a week in good weather than most urban dwellers do in a week.

 

BTW what does this have to do with the Cincinnati Skywalk?

Or have you discovered the new super race, physically fit, segment of our population which is going to take over? Please identify.

 

...The concept of going to a mall and spending most of the day wandering from store to store and "shopping" is just not what most people desire today.

 

Uh, urbanites? People in walkable areas tend stay healthy for a much longer potion of their lives than ones in unwalkable areas. Sprawl effectively cuts off your legs.

 

Indeed, people don't have the time to just browse around a mall these days. The move to a 24/7 service economy has destroyed they idea of a 9-5 job for many, and all that time spent driving has eroded the free time of Americans.

 

And people who have concerns about this have more than ample opportunity to counteract it. I should tell all the people I see either just walking or jogging in my neighborhood they must realize it is impossible to keep physically fit in suburbia. And the number of fitness centers we have within 2 miles almost equals the number of pizza joints and that is saying something. People concerned about their health will actually pay to keep it up.

 

At 72 I don't go out of my way to walk. But I venture to say I probably walk more in 2 rounds of golf a week in good weather than most urban dwellers do in a week.

 

BTW what does this have to do with the Cincinnati Skywalk?

 

And I venture to say most suburbanites are in worse shape than most urban dwellers. 

That's difficult.. As most in poverty are in poor health and they often live in urban settings. However, If you compare strictly within socioeconomic classes, I'd bet my lunch money you're correct.

Yes, those who live in urban "food deserts" without decent food close by do run into trouble. The "ghetto" or "'hood" usually often doesn't have the kind of amenities that lead to good walkability.

That's difficult.. As most in poverty are in poor health and they often live in urban settings. However, If you compare strictly within socioeconomic classes, I'd bet my lunch money you're correct.

 

The latter half of your statement is exactly where I was getting at.

2 rounds of golf comes nowhere close to the amount of exercise any person living in New York City gets on a weekly basis.  In fact NYC was recently found to have the healthiest general population in the country.  This is because everyone walks several miles per day and most climb many staircases per day. 

 

I have never known anyone who moved to NYC from Ohio to get fatter.  Instead they all get thinner -- and quickly.  The average person raised in Cincinnati's suburbs has *never* walked anywhere as actual transportation, except maybe their subdivision clubhouse.  Cumulatively it makes a profound difference in one's health. 

 

2 rounds of golf comes nowhere close to the amount of exercise any person living in New York City gets on a weekly basis.  In fact NYC was recently found to have the healthiest general population in the country.  This is because everyone walks several miles per day and most climb many staircases per day. 

 

I have never known anyone who moved to NYC from Ohio to get fatter.  Instead they all get thinner -- and quickly.  The average person raised in Cincinnati's suburbs has *never* walked anywhere as actual transportation, except maybe their subdivision clubhouse.  Cumulatively it makes a profound difference in one's health. 

 

 

As someone who moved from Cincinnati to NYC two years ago, I can personally attest. I live in a fifth floor walk up, I walk 10 minutes to the subway and another five from Grand Central to my office daily. I walk constantly, as does the vast majority of other people living in and around Manhattan. The vast, vast majority of overweight people to be seen are tourists, almost all of whom hail from the suburbs.

I was just in NYC for 4 days. I was able to eat like a moose (way more than at home), and didn't gain a pound.. actually lost one, simply because of how much we walked while we were there. I had a couple friends move there from Cincinnati, both lost a lot of weight just from all the walking.

It's upsetting how all these diet advice things say "you can't lose weight from walking".  When the "power walking" trend hit around 1988, you saw all these moms tromping around their subdivisions for maybe 30 minutes, to no avail.  That comes nowhere close to the 90+ minutes of walking many people do every day in New York, 7 days a week, rain or shine.  I think the subway steps are a huge part of it, something that's not such a factor in Washington or Boston. 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, hit the sidewalks, skip the skywalks!

 

From the NYTimes:

 

Denver Is Urged to Hit the Sidewalks

 

DENVER — Quite a few of the frighteningly fit live around here. On a balmy Saturday, or for that matter a frigid winter weekday before dawn, an army of them emerges to run and bike. And in their intimidating long strides and whirring spokes, they underscore why Colorado is the least obese state in the nation.

 

People like Gosia Kung and Dr. Andrew M. Freeman are trying to change that. In very different ways and for different reasons — she is an architect, he a cardiologist — they are trying to reincorporate physical activity into the sinews of a place that, despite its fantastic body mass index, lost touch like most American cities with the idea of walking as transportation.

I was living in an unwalkable area outside Huntington WV when signed up for an internship in D.C. During that 3-month internship I lost 25 pounds because I was able to walk places, use rail transit and eat city food. When I went back to Huntington, I moved to a part of town where I could walk to work and class. The weight stayed off. It didn't come back for 4 years until I started having to drive to Florence from Oakley for work and was stuck with mall food (man cannot survive on Stouffer's alone). When I moved back to Columbus I was living in Bexley and working in New Albany. The fat stayed on. When I got the opportunity to live near work (now in 5xNW) I eagerly took it. And whaddaya know? I lost significant weight again. I can walk to many things and BMX to work often.

 

I hate running. I hate lifting. Gym culture seems foreign to me. I suck at sports. But I like purposeful walking (not doing it "just to do it") and biking.

I was living in an unwalkable area outside Huntington WV when signed up for an internship in D.C. During that 3-month internship I lost 25 pounds because I was able to walk places, use rail transit and eat city food. When I went back to Huntington, I moved to a part of town where I could walk to work and class. The weight stayed off. It didn't come back for 4 years until I started having to drive to Florence from Oakley for work and was stuck with mall food (man cannot survive on Stouffer's alone). When I moved back to Columbus I was living in Bexley and working in New Albany. The fat stayed on. When I got the opportunity to live near work (now in 5xNW) I eagerly took it. And whaddaya know? I lost significant weight again. I can walk to many things and BMX to work often.

 

I hate running. I hate lifting. Gym culture seems foreign to me. I suck at sports. But I like purposeful walking (not doing it "just to do it") and biking.

 

That is fine, do what you feel you need to do. But don't disparage people who make a conscientous decision to improve their health by working out in a gym or fitness center. You might find they just have a little more determination built into them than you give credit for.

More than me, for sure.

Yeah, hit the sidewalks, skip the skywalks!

Walking is walking, no matter where you do it.

 

I love the Skywalks; on a rainy, snowy, frigid or muggy day I can walk the five blocks from the bus stop to my office and spend only one block of that in the elements. What's not to like?

^ It takes people off the street, and vibrant street life is essential to a successful urban area.

Skywalks are great for avoiding the weather but they also contribute to a "vacant" looking downtown and bypass street level stores and so forth. So while people think they're really convenient, they're really just contributing to the decline of downtown without even realizing it.

What was a symptom of dysfunction for me with the Skywalk is that it had to have special behavior rules posted. A regular street doesn't need those.

Skywalks are great for avoiding the weather but they also contribute to a "vacant" looking downtown and bypass street level stores and so forth. So while people think they're really convenient, they're really just contributing to the decline of downtown without even realizing it.

 

But maybe you should understand that the young families with one in a carriage and a toddler need the security of this type of walkway. If you drive them out of the city you are losing years of patronage. Young yuppiie professionals alone will not rebuild the urban fabric. It takes a commitment far beyond that.

But maybe you should understand that the young families with one in a carriage and a toddler need the security of this type of walkway. If you drive them out of the city you are losing years of patronage. Young yuppiie professionals alone will not rebuild the urban fabric. It takes a commitment far beyond that.

 

They don't seem to need skywalks in Chicago, where the weather is far worse.  And the skywalks certainly didn't attract famililes when they when installed, as evidenced by the state of downtown until recent years. 

Skywalks are great for avoiding the weather but they also contribute to a "vacant" looking downtown and bypass street level stores and so forth. So while people think they're really convenient, they're really just contributing to the decline of downtown without even realizing it.

 

But maybe you should understand that the young families with one in a carriage and a toddler need the security of this type of walkway. If you drive them out of the city you are losing years of patronage. Young yuppiie professionals alone will not rebuild the urban fabric. It takes a commitment far beyond that.

 

I have been pushing a baby, then toddler, around in a stroller through downtown for the past eighteen months.  I prefer the sidewalk over the skywalk.  Not every building has elevator access to the skywalk, and I feel that walking on the sidewalk is safer.  Parts of the skywalk are vacant, while there are many sets of eyes on the sidewalks. 

Plenty of cities do just fine without skywalks, accommodating strollers and whatnot. Whatever did cities do prior to the invention of skywalks? Honestly, with all the up and down involved in using a skywalk, I'd think it's more of a hassle for someone to push a stroller around there than the street.

 

Traffic calming is the way to go. Make the streets safer for pedestrians and cyclists (young or old, with or without carriages). This is a lot cheaper than building and maintaining skywalks, too.

Honestly, with all the up and down involved in using a skywalk, I'd think it's more of a hassle for someone to push a stroller around there than the street

 

It certainly is.  What is also a hassle for strollers (and I would imagine wheelchairs) are the buildings that placed their lobbies on the skywalk level instead of the street level. 

I have to say, it makes a nice route for a leisurely family stroll on a lousy day. My little walkers can run around all they want and I don't have to worry about traffic. I do have to worry about random puddles of bum urine in the corners though....

I have to say, it makes a nice route for a leisurely family stroll on a lousy day. My little walkers can run around all they want and I don't have to worry about traffic. I do have to worry about random puddles of bum urine in the corners though....

 

I like walking around them sometimes, too, but more for their quality as a destination than their quality for transportation.

 

Regardless, just because they have some pros does not mean those pros outweigh the cons. They are detrimental to thriving, vibrant streets. That for me is the bottom line.