21 hours ago, mrnyc said:

well … sadly that was a fair review. 🎃

It is embarassing.  RTA management should wake every day trying to make that line their crown jewel to regain public trust in the rest of their operations. Disgraceful.  We need the County to engage tech companies such as those flocking to the suddenly tech-centric Smart City Pittsburgh to study ways to improve or find alternatives to this slow-ride BRT.  I am surprised Case hasn't been engaged to have their engineeers study fixes. Otherwise until we can rent peronalized jet packs as easily e-scooters and bikes maybe we do demo projects and allow personal rickshaws to compete with the slow-ride buses- they can't be any slower than our current state of RTA's BRT.  Oe last idea - why not embrace it as Clevelanders do so well - let's rename it the Foghat Line and play Foghat's 70's classic on a loop in each bus and bus stop to calm those who have to ride the slow-ride BRT.

 

In Columbus we passed a sales tax-funded BRT plan in December. During the planning discussions we have emphasized avoiding "BRT Creep" over time where BRT loses key aspects of its operation such as kiosk fare collection, signal priority, high frequency (especially at peak), well-maintained stations, dedicated lanes etc. Indianapolis' system opened in 2019 and is already seeing BRT Creep.

 

I've noticed forum users mentioning these kinds of issues (not all the ones I listed) with the Healthline but it is scattered around the forum. How has the Healthline changed from its intended situation since opening? A lot of the talk say in this thread is a little "If you know you know" -- which is fine except when looking for something specific from the outside.

18 minutes ago, GCrites said:

In Columbus we passed a sales tax-funded BRT plan in December. During the planning discussions we have emphasized avoiding "BRT Creep" over time where BRT loses key aspects of its operation such as kiosk fare collection, signal priority, high frequency (especially at peak), well-maintained stations, dedicated lanes etc. Indianapolis' system opened in 2019 and is already seeing BRT Creep.

 

I've noticed forum users mentioning these kinds of issues (not all the ones I listed) with the Healthline but it is scattered around the forum. How has the Healthline changed from its intended situation since opening? A lot of the talk say in this thread is a little "If you know you know" -- which is fine except when looking for something specific from the outside.

The Healthline when it opened had all door boarding meaning you could just hop on and have a seat, RTA police would then board at random stops to do fare verification and de-board at a different stop. This was deemed illegal and now people boar at the front door, slowing the speed of the route, defeating the purpose of BRT and essentially this became a glorified version of the standard bus route it replaced. I loved the Healthline when it opened but I haven't rode it for almost 10 years now. They have hired ambassadors but to my understanding they don't do much fare checking. 

On 12/20/2024 at 10:38 AM, GCrites said:

In Columbus we passed a sales tax-funded BRT plan in December. During the planning discussions we have emphasized avoiding "BRT Creep" over time where BRT loses key aspects of its operation such as kiosk fare collection, signal priority, high frequency (especially at peak), well-maintained stations, dedicated lanes etc. Indianapolis' system opened in 2019 and is already seeing BRT Creep.

 

I've noticed forum users mentioning these kinds of issues (not all the ones I listed) with the Healthline but it is scattered around the forum. How has the Healthline changed from its intended situation since opening? A lot of the talk say in this thread is a little "If you know you know" -- which is fine except when looking for something specific from the outside.

Key points on Cleveland’s Euclid Avenue HealthLine BRT

- System was designed with signal prioritization, but this is not enabled today. There are arguments about whether any aspects of signal prioritization ever worked, but it is certainly much less than ideal today. Buses often wait more than two minutes to get off of Public Square onto Euclid Avenue - the very beginning of the route!

- The system was intended to have offboard payments. RTA used transit police to enforce this. In 2017, a Cleveland municipal judge ruled that the use of police to enforce in this manner unconstitutional. The judge recommended using regular employees, not police, to do the fare checks. Instead, RTA eliminated off board fare payments and have the bus drivers do it like a normal bus routes. This has dramatically slowed the service. Not only do you have to wait for the bus driver to check everyone’s fare, there is no longer all-door boarding. RTA started hiring transit ambassadors a couple years ago, but to my knowledge, those employees have not yet been used for fare checking, which we thought was the point.  (Sidenote, I am not a regular rider and my information on this may be out of date.)

- The HealthLine has a dedicated bus lane from Public Square to East 105th. East of that through University Circle, it does not have a dedicated lane. If you look at a map, you can see why it was easier to convince leaders to dedicate a lane on Euclid west of 105, as there are four main East West boulevards through that area, while east of 105, Euclid Ave. is the only main road. But this is also the section where the bus could most benefit from the dedicated lane as there is more traffic. 
 

Also we are salty because it was originally proposed as the “Daul Hub rail” connection, a light rail subway downtown, surfacing east of downtown and proceeding to University Circle as a grade level light rail service. While there has been tremendous investment in the neighborhoods around the BRT (driven mostly by the hospitals and CWRU), and as Ken has pointed out, there were many zoning improvements related to the BRT that enabled better design of these investments, we can’t help but think about how much better of a city Cleveland would be today if we had gone all in and made it a rail transit line. 
 

All that said, the HealthLine does look cool in the movie Captain America: Winter Soldier.  

9 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

The Healthline when it opened had all door boarding meaning you could just hop on and have a seat, RTA police would then board at random stops to do fare verification and de-board at a different stop. This was deemed illegal and now people boar at the front door, slowing the speed of the route, defeating the purpose of BRT and essentially this became a glorified version of the standard bus route it replaced. I loved the Healthline when it opened but I haven't rode it for almost 10 years now. They have hired ambassadors but to my understanding they don't do much fare checking. 

 

I have ridden the Healthline quite a bit in the last year during peak hours, as well a few times on less busy times.

 

The drivers have no problem holding up the bus at any point if they see someone not scan a ticket or acting up. Kids, adults, homeless or otherwise, they don't hesitate.

 

My commute until very recently was to hop on at E. 14th and hop off at E. 40th. Since I'm on there for 5 minutes tops and I'm young and able, I would always stand by the non-opening door, assuming it wasn't too crowded to do so. A few months ago, one of the drivers attempted to scold me for leaning against the door, which I'm very conscious of not doing. He insisted on saying it again, and I had to assert myself that I was not leaning up against the door so we could get the bus going again.

 

I once bought a ticket for homeless man that got on the bus without paying for one. The driver was not having it and was telling him he'd have to get off.  I paid for it partly so we could just keep moving, but mostly because I hate the idea of $2.50 preventing someone from getting somewhere. Homeless or not, he was trying to use the service as intended and wasn't bothering anyone except the driver.

 

The non-Healthline drivers are significantly friendlier. Which makes sense with the increased shenanigans, but the HL drivers look like they hate their lives.

I saw something on here recently about decreased frequency. Either off-peak or even during peak. I can't find it now.

1 hour ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

Key points on Cleveland’s Euclid Avenue HealthLine BRT

- System was designed with signal prioritization, but this is not enabled today. There are arguments about whether any aspects of signal prioritization ever worked, but it is certainly much less than ideal today. Buses often wait more than two minutes to get off of Public Square onto Euclid Avenue - the very beginning of the route!

- The system was intended to have offboard payments. RTA used transit police to enforce this. In 2017, the Cleveland municipal judge ruled that the use of police to enforce in this manner unconstitutional. The judge recommended using regular employees, not police, to do the fare checks. Instead, RTA eliminated off board fare payments and have the bus drivers do it like a normal bus routes. This has dramatically slowed the service. Not only do you have to wait for the bus driver to check everyone’s fare, there is no longer all-door boarding. RTA started hiring transit ambassadors a couple years ago, but to my knowledge, those employees have not yet been used for fare checking, which we thought was the point.  (Sidenote, I am not a regular rider and my information on this may be out of date.)

- The HealthLine has a dedicated bus lane from Public Square to East 105th. East of that through University Circle, it does not have a dedicated lane. If you look at a map, you can see why it was easier to convince leaders to dedicate a lane on Euclid west of 105, as there are four main East West boulevards through that area, while east of 105, Euclid Ave. is the only main road. But this is also the section where the bus could most benefit from the dedicated lane as there is more traffic. 
 

Also we are salty because it was originally proposed as the “Daul Hub rail” connection, a light rail subway downtown, surfacing east of downtown and proceeding to University Circle as a grade level light rail service. While there has been tremendous investment in the neighborhoods around the BRT (driven mostly by the hospitals and CWRU), and as Ken has pointed out, there were many zoning improvements related to the BRT that enabled better design of these investments, we can’t help but think about how much better of a city Cleveland would be today if we had gone all in and made it a rail transit line. 
 

All that said, the HealthLine does look cool in the movie Captain America: Winter Soldier.  

Personally, I feel that the Old RTA CEO never wanted the Healthline to terminate in East Cleveland which is why it is so underwhelming in that stretch. People can say it was "over budget" but when the RTA diverted some buses to terminate at University Circle station instead of Windermere that showed me his true wish was for it to simply serve between Downtown and UC. I do find it extremely odd that they don't have dedicated bus lanes at the part of the route that needs it the most. i am torn though because that is the most beautiful section of the Healthline due to the median being used for landscaping and art.

 

To me the RTA Board doesn't really care about BRT (MetroHealth line is simply BRT lite) or the Healthline, it simply is a route that just like our rail system (which I feel they don't care for either) already exists and due to infrastructure investments would be too controversial to get rid of. The RTA is fine with the bare minimum and I hate it. 

1 hour ago, Zagapi said:

The non-Healthline drivers are significantly friendlier. Which makes sense with the increased shenanigans, but the HL drivers look like they hate their lives.

Funny how you give someone like a bus driver some power and they let it go to their head.   It's the equivalent of the TSA agent who finally gets to work the podium, who can't wait to scream at someone for approaching before asked...

They have impossible, highly stressed, low pay, and at times dangerous jobs; I'd cut them a lot of slack.

I've said it before on other fora:  without signal prioritization, BRT is an oxymoron.

 

At its best, "proof of payment" reeks of "papers, pliz".  I sounds it's even more disruptive than that with the drivers getting involved in enforcement.

 

What made the Red Line efficient BITD was controlled access stations.  

I don't get why we don't have a tap to pay system like other systems such as San Francisco. The terminals are located on the poles right by each door and they simply hold their phone up, if the ambassadors aren't checking fares they could have them on board certain buses to ensure the bus fare is scanned upon boarding or to assist. 

I avoid RTA. It's gross, slow, expensive and...gross.

My opinion, a slight grade change of the bus only lanes would've got this concept off to a much better start.  This way making the impression that a car can't go up on that section of road.  Maybe only 6" higher, or lower than the parallel vehicle lane.  Then coming to grade at intersections.  Almost would give a similar effect that rail has, and make signalization easier to do.  It may also create the impression that a car is sharing the road woth the BRT versus the opposite.

Edited December 24, 2024Dec 24 by Jenny

1 hour ago, Jenny said:

My opinion, a slight grade change of the bus only lanes would've got this concept off to a much better start.  This way making the impression that a car can't go up on that section of road.  Maybe only 6" higher, or lower than the parallel vehicle lane.  Then coming to grade at intersections.  Almost would give a similar effect that rail has, and make signalization easier to do.  It may also create the impression that a car is sharing the road woth the BRT versus the opposite.

But where would the Marble Room valets operate?  😁

On 12/20/2024 at 2:10 PM, MyPhoneDead said:

 

Edited December 24, 2024Dec 24 by TBideon

On 12/20/2024 at 11:03 AM, Boomerang_Brian said:

Key points on Cleveland’s Euclid Avenue HealthLine BRT

- System was designed with signal prioritization, but this is not enabled today. There are arguments about whether any aspects of signal prioritization ever worked, but it is certainly much less than ideal today. Buses often wait more than two minutes to get off of Public Square onto Euclid Avenue - the very beginning of the route!

- The system was intended to have offboard payments. RTA used transit police to enforce this. In 2017, a Cleveland municipal judge ruled that the use of police to enforce in this manner unconstitutional. The judge recommended using regular employees, not police, to do the fare checks. Instead, RTA eliminated off board fare payments and have the bus drivers do it like a normal bus routes. This has dramatically slowed the service. Not only do you have to wait for the bus driver to check everyone’s fare, there is no longer all-door boarding. RTA started hiring transit ambassadors a couple years ago, but to my knowledge, those employees have not yet been used for fare checking, which we thought was the point.  (Sidenote, I am not a regular rider and my information on this may be out of date.)

- The HealthLine has a dedicated bus lane from Public Square to East 105th. East of that through University Circle, it does not have a dedicated lane. If you look at a map, you can see why it was easier to convince leaders to dedicate a lane on Euclid west of 105, as there are four main East West boulevards through that area, while east of 105, Euclid Ave. is the only main road. But this is also the section where the bus could most benefit from the dedicated lane as there is more traffic. 
 

Also we are salty because it was originally proposed as the “Daul Hub rail” connection, a light rail subway downtown, surfacing east of downtown and proceeding to University Circle as a grade level light rail service. While there has been tremendous investment in the neighborhoods around the BRT (driven mostly by the hospitals and CWRU), and as Ken has pointed out, there were many zoning improvements related to the BRT that enabled better design of these investments, we can’t help but think about how much better of a city Cleveland would be today if we had gone all in and made it a rail transit line. 
 

All that said, the HealthLine does look cool in the movie Captain America: Winter Soldier.  

One thing I've been seeing personally that I'm a little confused about is the signal priority. I've seen from multiple sources that its been disabled but as someone who commutes across Euclid a lot, I'm pretty sure that its still enabled or at least it is at specific hours of the day. Whenever a healthline bus comes along and I'm stopped at the light, the lights skip the cycle to prioritize the bus going through.

2 hours ago, CleFan said:

One thing I've been seeing personally that I'm a little confused about is the signal priority. I've seen from multiple sources that its been disabled but as someone who commutes across Euclid a lot, I'm pretty sure that its still enabled or at least it is at specific hours of the day. Whenever a healthline bus comes along and I'm stopped at the light, the lights skip the cycle to prioritize the bus going through.

I ride the Healthline quite a bit. If I’m honest, I’m not sure what a fully-functioning signal priority is supposed to look like, but it does seem that the bus does get preferential treatment. From E9th to UC, at least.  

 

 

Video goes pretty in-depth on current HealthLine issues and their causes. The line from the city why signal priority was lost at certain intersections is classic 🙄

1 hour ago, GCrites said:

 

 

Video goes pretty in-depth on current HealthLine issues and their causes. The line from the city why signal priority was lost at certain intersections is classic 🙄

To be fair, the line itself is credited to Angie Schmitt, not the city itself. I’m not saying it’s inaccurate, but Angie is not without her own editorial slant. 

Thank you for making that distinction!

Edited January 26Jan 26 by GCrites