^You were on around the time school lets out. The problem with the 6 are the stops every other block (that's how it feels anyway) - I almost always try to get on the 9 instead.

The problem with the 6 are the stops every other block (that's how it feels anyway) - I almost always try to get on the 9 instead.

 

When the project is fully operational, all buses will make all stops, and all stops will be at stations only. Service will be every five minutes.

Oh, I know - it's just that the few times I've had to use the 6, it seemed like it took forever just to get from East 93rd to East 9th.

 

Believe me, I have appointments at the Clinic and any time someone gripes about the Euclid Corridor Project, i.e. "who would ever use it?!?", I pipe right up and say "I'll use it for my doctor's appointments - like I want to pay $10 to park for an hour!".

^ You gotta pay to park at the Cleveland Clinic?!

Yep - mind you, my "$10 an hour" comment is a bit exaggerated but you never get in and out in under an hour. Some elective surgery places will validate your parking but most of the outpatient departments don't. I'm car-free, and my partner offers to let me borrow the car but I detest driving for anything other than leisure.

 

http://cms.clevelandclinic.org/body.cfm?id=532

^ You gotta pay to park at the Cleveland Clinic?!

 

They have a massive parking shortage. They are building 6,000 structured spaces this year alone.

^ You gotta pay to park at the Cleveland Clinic?!

 

They have a massive parking shortage. They are building 6,000 structured spaces this year alone.

 

yeah, and are they still having their own employees park at the Muni Lot downtown and take a shuttle?

^ You gotta pay to park at the Cleveland Clinic?!

 

That's how it is at OSU Medical Center as well. $3.00 for the first hour and an additional dollar for each hour up to $9.00, after that its $15.00 for the day.

^ You gotta pay to park at the Cleveland Clinic?!

 

They have a massive parking shortage. They are building 6,000 structured spaces this year alone.

 

yeah, and are they still having their own employees park at the Muni Lot downtown and take a shuttle?

 

yep. They've also got people parking in East Cleveland, next to the Cle School of the Arts and next to BioEnterprise. Those shuttles are all over the place. There is always a CCF police car patroling the muni lot.

Well, I guess it's nice to see they appreciate all those sickly bodies coming through the door. Better make sure they get a few more bucks off 'em. And don't forget, they need that office in Avon Lake, damn it.

^You were on around the time school lets out. The problem with the 6 are the stops every other block (that's how it feels anyway) - I almost always try to get on the 9 instead.

 

I've been on it later in the evening-- like around 7 pm (Cleveland Clinic to Tower City) and it was packed too. 

 

 

^ You gotta pay to park at the Cleveland Clinic?!

 

I think it's $10 max per day, isn't it?  You can get discount booklets for 10 days of parking (with in and out priveleges) for $40.  $35 for seniors

 

 

Man. Cleveland gets these before NYC. That's irritating. :)

 

hellllloo? the "l" train has'em. they don't work right tho - lol!

 

pure speculation, but my belief is the mta employees already sabotage it so they dont have to be held accountable for timeliness. thats why any posted gps info on city busses will never fly either.

The muni lot thing I think is supposed to end when they complete the mother-of-all-parking garages on Carnegie and 89th.  That thing is certifiably ginormous...

The muni lot thing I think is supposed to end when they complete the mother-of-all-parking garages on Carnegie and 89th.  That thing is certifiably ginormous...

 

That garage has two tower crains!

Crain's magazines? ;)

The Euclid Corridor project has been a pain in the butt at times, especially being a route 6 rider. But it feels good to see the project coming together and seeing the development that will compliment this project. I am happy about this now and feel that it is worth it. I would not mind seeing more residential projects in midtown along Euclid especially in between the Cleveland Clinic and Cleveland State, but I guess that could come in due time.

Can somebody post this article from Crain's please? Thank you.

 

Portion of Silver Line will run by year’s end

Portion of Silver Line will run by years end

 

A sneak peek of the Silver Line rapid transit along Euclid Avenue will be available by the end of 2007.

 

 

Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority

 

By JAY MILLER

 

4:30 am, November 5, 2007

 

.......

Not all the business owners along the corridor may agree with the assessment of Ms. Wright-Alley.

 

Whoa! Sloppy journalism alert! Miller speculates that others might not agree with Wright-Alley, someone who had her fair share of concerns about the project but is now an enthusiastic supporter ... but then he offers no examples of business owners who DO disagree. So ... it's alright to posit that business owners aren't excited about the MAJOR infrastructure improvements along the corridor, but then provide no examples? I certainly hope an editor cut a quote or something.

^Very good point.  Possible (again, maybe something was lost in the edit) "speculation journalism" in an article that should be fact based.  Pet peeve of mine as well.

At least one business owner is optimistic about the route’s prosects.

They are going to demonstrate the usefulness of the Euclid Corridor by running a bus from the edge of somewhere to the middle of nowhere?

They are going to demonstrate the usefulness of the Euclid Corridor by running a bus from the edge of somewhere to the middle of nowhere?

 

And back... going uphill... in both directions.

They are going to demonstrate the usefulness of the Euclid Corridor by running a bus from the edge of somewhere to the middle of nowhere?

 

It sounds to me that they are just going to use the current #6 and use the stations that are in place.  It won't stop at E. 55th st and go back, it will just keep going east like it always does. 

maybe i'm confused - but how could an existing bus use the stations in the middle of the street? Don't the busses have a right side door, and passengers in these new stations have to board on the left side of the bus? I understand how the NEW busses (BRT) will operate, i'm just confused on these demonstration rides.

 

Does RTA have special busses with left side doors that they plan on using?

Maybe they are planning on making the buses drive on the left side of the road

Look at the pictures here:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=2840.msg223871#msg223871

 

The new buses have doors on the right.  The stations are on the outside (the right side) of the bus-only lanes which are in the middle of the street.  The lanes closest to the curbs are for cars.  So, the regular buses should be able to use the stations. 

 

 

Please don't yell at me for not re-reading 34 pages of this thread, but why again did RTA go with right side only doors?  Did the cost savings on vehicles offset the cost of needing two stations at every stop?

 

Also, I know RTA is promising a 20 min ride more or less from UC to Downtown, but does anyone else think there are too many stops along the way?  I think there are 20...which is about four per mile...which is a lot for "rapid transit" of any format.

maybe i'm confused - but how could an existing bus use the stations in the middle of the street?  Don't the busses have a right side door, and passengers in these new stations have to board on the left side of the bus?  I understand how the NEW busses (BRT) will operate, i'm just confused on these demonstration rides. 

 

Does RTA have special busses with left side doors that they plan on using?

 

only some of the stations will require the left side doors (basically e12 to public square, i believe).  at the rest of the stations, riders will board on the right side of the bus.

 

i think RTA has ordered 10 or 15 special docking arms for buses that will run in this area, so there will be a subfleet that can actually dock with the stations over the next 10 months, or whenever the next buses start running.

That makes more sense.  However, I'm pretty sure the center loading stations continue all the way past CSU to the E. 40's.  If these demonstration runs start at E. 55th then this won't be an issue.

 

I looked at euclidtransit.org and the new vehicles most definitley do have Left Sided doors (i'm assuming right sided doors as well).  It seems like the significant changes to what is now, besides the streetscape, will be the center lane boarding stations from PS to E. 40's

That makes more sense.  However, I'm pretty sure the center loading stations continue all the way past CSU to the E. 40's.  If these demonstration runs start at E. 55th then this won't be an issue.

 

the stations will be center load, but the bus will pull up past the intersection and riders will board from the right, not the left side at all of the stations.  similrar to what happens at e120 or wherever the side stations start.  the only difference is that bus is now running in the curb lane and stopping and loading from the right.

 

i think that downtown, both east and west bound buses will share a station, and certain stations (public square, where the stations are on the square portion), will require the left sided doors.

Also, I know RTA is promising a 20 min ride more or less from UC to Downtown, but does anyone else think there are too many stops along the way?  I think there are 20...which is about four per mile...which is a lot for "rapid transit" of any format.

 

Even with that, there are people along the route who are complaining about stops being too far apart to the point that they are inconvenient for riders who are less mobile.  I can understand their concern, but GCRTA weighed efficient operations (few stops and faster service) over the traditional bus model that stops every other block.  It really will make the whole ride faster!

^Wow, interesting.  I guess nothing makes everyone happy.  I still wouldn't say "few stops", but I suppose it is a lot fewer than the current route.  I believe the current plan is for the vehicles to stop and dock at every station whether or not their is waiting customer or someone wanting to get off (I could be wrong though).  I can imagine this being a bit tedious for off-peak runs.

 

Urbanlife and lewarctj, help me out here:  when I hear "center load" I think of loading from a platform between the vehicle lanes (i.e., left side doors).  From your posts, I gather this is the case only for a very small number of stations downtown (west of Playhouse square).  I am surprised this was not used more often to reduce the capital costs and ongoing operational costs of maintaining two stations at every other stop between CSU and UC- what am I missing?  Are there concerns about waiting capacity in a single station?

Does anyone else think there are too many stops along the way?  I think there are 20...which is about four per mile...which is a lot for "rapid transit" of any format.

 

Did they decrease the number of stops as a component of the planning process? By my count, the original map (http://www.euclidtransit.org/maps/Map_FINAL.pdf) has 33 stops. But that's also with stations going all the way to the Windermere station, which is actually more like 6.5 miles from Public Square.

 

It seems like a lot to me, too. In lower Manhattan, the 1 Line has 20 stops between South Ferry and 103rd, just under a 6.5 mile distance. And that's of course, with a much higher density of people and a more prevalent use of mass transit. That being said, comparing NYC rail to Cleveland BRT might not be the best "apples to apples" comparison.

 

Compared to our local transit infrastructure, it really doesn't look all that extreme to me. The eastbound red line already has 9 stops along a similar route (and that's without the obvious connections to downtown, Midtown & the Clinic and lower University Circle to justify additional stops). The blue line has 12 stops between Shaker Square and Warrensville Center, roughly a 3.3 mile route ... double that and you end  up with 24 stops, which means that the ECP route is pretty comparable to that existing rail service. And keep in mind that a sizable portion of ridership is coming from people who previously rode the 6, which made umpteen-million stops over the same route.

I know there's map somewhere on this thread that shows how each stop when compared to the next is no more than the pedestrian watershed area (1/2 mile IIRC).

 

Its a map with circular halos around each station, they should always come close to the next station...

 

(little babbling, but some of you might be able to explain better)

^ Pope, I looked at every single effing page of this thread and didn't find the map you are referring to.

 

I seriously, seriously hate you  :wink:

point is, if you draw a 1/2 mile radius around each station it should be near/against/slightly overlapping to the next stations radius.

^^Funny, I just killed a bunch time looking over the thread too.  I was looking for this useful thingy:  http://www.euclidtransit.org/ECTP_documents/Community%20Update%20022807%20MJS.pdf which describes the station formats and designs in detail.

 

My count of 20 stations was just between Public Square and the western edge of not UC, not the whole route length (as I think you put together).  Per the above linked doc, these 20 stops are over over a 4.37 mile length of exclusive busway.  I guess it's better than ordinary bus, and not so much worse than the local part of the green line (which then makes up for it with the infrequent stops through the city of Cleveland), but still not so rapid-y.

 

For some reason, while I knew the East Cleveland part wasn't really going to be BRT, it hadn't really clicked that the portion of the route going through University Circle itself (East of 107th) wouldn't be exclusive busway.  Not really sure why this had to be so.  I hope the brief rushhour, when UC's massive parking supply oozes out its cars, doesn't screw with the ECP's peak period performance too much.

point is, if you draw a 1/2 mile radius around each station it should be near/against/slightly overlapping to the next stations radius.

 

Maybe with a 1/2 diameter, but I think even a 1/4 mile radius around each station will be slightly overlapping the radius of the next stop- those things are like every couple blocks.

^pope's numbers are never concrete, always illustrative. Then I let people like KJP and JMasek fill in the blanks.

Pope's point is taken.  And I realize that my math was bad- I think 1/8 mile stop radii would fill up the route and even overlap in many places.

I have been gone for a few hours. Perhaps this "official" project scope can answer some of your questions.

 

The Euclid Corridor Transportation Project consists of the design and construction of a Bus Rapid Transit System from Public Square in downtown Cleveland to the City of East Cleveland.

 

The project is approximately 9.4 miles in length and is comprised of two major elements—the Euclid Avenue BRT element and the downtown Transit Zone BRT element.

 

The ECTP BRT element is 7.1 miles with 36 stations on Euclid Avenue between Cleveland’s Public Square and East Cleveland’s Stokes-Windermere Rapid Transit Station.

 

It connects the Cleveland Central Business District to Playhouse

Square, Cleveland State University, Cleveland Clinic, University Circle, Case Western Reserve University, University Hospitals, and the Stokes-Windermere Rapid Transit Station in the City of East Cleveland. (my note: so much for the comment about the project going nowhere.)

 

From Public Square to East 17th Street, there will be exclusive transit lanes for the ECTP vehicles only, with seven Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) compliant stations. From East 17th Street to East 107th Street, there will be 15 ADA-compliant stations, with exclusive transit lanes.

 

From East 107th Street to the Stokes-Windermere Station, the BRT will be curbside operation in mixed traffic lanes, with 14 curbside stations. (my note: The State of Ohio recently helped fund major improvements to Rt. 20 -- Euclid Avenue -- in East Cleveland.)

 

Each of the median stations will include level boarding and off-board fare collection. Traffic signal prioritization is an integral component of this BRT project.

 

The Downtown Transit Zone BRT element is comprised of the rehabilitation of 2.3 miles of roadways between Public Square and Cleveland State University, including the creation of approximately one mile of 24-hour exclusive bus lanes on

Superior Avenue, and 0.7 miles of peak hour exclusive bus lanes on St. Clair Avenue.

 

The scope of the project also includes the procurement of 20 articulated low-floor vehicles with three doors on the right hand side and two doors on the left hand side to accommodate boarding needs. The vehicles will be fully ADA accessible and will seat approximately 46 passengers, and utilize diesel/electric technology to provide electric power for propulsion and operation. One vehicle will be procured for testing and training. (my note: that was the prototype that many of you saw earlier.)

 

Other scope elements include: right-of-way acquisition, utility adjustments and relocations, traffic signals, communications and lighting, modifications to the existing Hayden Garage (where the RTVs will be parked) and Central Bus facilities (where the RTVs will go for major repairs), public art, environmental mitigation and start-up and testing prior to revenue service.

(end of statement)

 

I hope this helps.

Another tidbit of positive news for the naysayers to chew on..

 

The ECTP has been a catalyst for regional business growth and jobs for Northeast Ohioans. All but two major contracts (New Flyer and Central Denver Ironworks) were awarded to Northeast Ohio companies. $121 million of $131 million of construction dollars, or 92 percent, have been awarded to prime contractors from Northeast Ohio. Ninety-four (94) different companies are, or will be working, on the ECTP.

^^Thanks Jerry- that's a pretty nice summary which I think confirms my read of the posted presentations and other materials from posters on this forum.

 

I guess my distilled questions (and they truly are questions, not veiled criticism) are:

 

1. Why central platform stations only west of East 14th Street;

2. why so many stops along the entire route?, and

3. Why not exclusive bus lanes for any portion east of 107th (especially through University Circle)?

 

I know these aren't simple questions and may have technical responses which were well reported over the years, so I'm not going to be sad if there aren't clear answers.

I don't have the answer to the platform question, other than that the central platform saves 6' of street width and was necessary in the downtown portion.  Why that wasn't the ideal along the whole route, I don't know...

 

The E. 107th to city line answer, I believe, is because Euclid is the only major east/west route through the heart of the Circle.  Further west, you have your Chesters, Carnegies, etc.  So, I think they wanted to maintain all those vehicle lanes through the Circle, even though it will slow down the BRT vehicles.

 

My question pertains to the split platforms between E. 17th and E. 107th... I've been trying to figure this out myself, but still haven't come up with an answer:  If all the buses will be loading/unloading on the left side of the platform, why is the right side of each platform not closed off with some sort of railing or other barrier that will shield riders from passing traffic and deter them from jumping off the platform in the middle of the street?  Maybe I'm missing something here, but I haven't seen anything that answers my question.

^Thanks MP, that makes sense re. my question #3.

 

Re. your question- the station in the video posted on page 34 of this thread shows it to be closed off on the "jaywalking side"- is this one not representative of this stretch?

Page 32?

Yup, sorry.  Page 32.  And by "MP" I meant "MB".

but that video clearly shows that jaywalking will be a problem!