Are we sure that jaywalking at these stations will be more dangerous than it is at a normal bustop?  Is a center station so disorienting to people that they will suddenly be unable to discern if there is oncoming traffic approaching?

I agree railings would be an eyesore.  I do think that flanking the entire station loading/unloading area with a crosswalk "zone" and putting the onus on drivers to look for people crossing to get back and forth to the station could make sense.  It is supposed to be a pedestrian-friendly corridor, afterall. Was that considered?

 

As I said, I do not know all the things that were considered. Euclid Avenue is also US Route 20, and cars and pedestrians must co-exist. I believe in personal responsibility. There is nothing that any agency can do to guarantee that all drivers and pedestrians will obey the laws. Make a good faith effort to inform them of the law, and then it is up to them to obey or face the consequences.

 

I don't disagree with anything you say above, and it would be interesting to know the regulations inherent with the US Route designation as I hadn't considered that.  The question is simply who gets ROW priority on these particular patches of pavement.  The answer right now is "auto".  I am suggesting that perhaps it should be "pedestrian".

I agree railings would be an eyesore.  I do think that flanking the entire station loading/unloading area with a crosswalk "zone" and putting the onus on drivers to look for people crossing to get back and forth to the station could make sense.  It is supposed to be a pedestrian-friendly corridor, afterall. Was that considered?

 

As I said, I do not know all the things that were considered. Euclid Avenue is also US Route 20, and cars and pedestrians must co-exist. I believe in personal responsibility. There is nothing that any agency can do to guarantee that all drivers and pedestrians will obey the laws. Make a good faith effort to inform them of the law, and then it is up to them to obey or face the consequences.

 

I don't disagree with anything you say above, and it would be interesting to know the regulations inherent with the US Route designation as I hadn't considered that.  The question is simply who gets ROW priority on these particular patches of pavement.  The answer right now is "auto".  I am suggesting that perhaps it should be "pedestrian".

 

Just to weight in on this matter, as I worked a couple of afternoon shifts at E 24th myself... pedestrians have right of way when the signals indicate such, as do vehicles. This is why we have traffic signals. Pedestrian friendly != pedestrian priority.

 

When all traffic is directed to come to a stop, pedestrians are presented with a "Walk" signal, otherwise, they get a "Don't Walk" signal -- this is for their own safety. When they have a "Walk" signal, I personally don't care if they're exactly in a crosswalk or not, as they generally won't be putting themselves in a hazardous situation at that point. The crosswalks are typically situated to allow a pedestrian to observe and clearly interpret the current state of the traffic signals.

 

The most dangerous jaywalking occurs mid-block, where one cannot accurately interpret signal state because you're not close enough to them, or when the state of the signals is clearly ignored, and railings, cattle chutes, or other physical barriers will not stop this. If the coals of a fire are glowing red, and you touch them and get burned, who is at fault?

 

I like the clean lines of the stations without railings (sorry, Mov2Ohio, but that metal railing picture is fugly; functional, but ugly -- what did you think I meant?  :wink: ), and I think, over time, people will get used to them. Those who don't, or who choose not to, will continue to face the same level of risk they ever might have, as it's likely that their behavior would not only manifest itself in street crossings. I don't think we need a "nanny state" to look out for everyone...

In my opinion, based on what I saw at East 36th Street, the railing pictured above might reduce but would not eliminate the problem.

<<From what I've seen in the past with situations like this what normally will happen is the first time a passenger is struck and killed by a passing car and its all over the news, within the week GCRTA will be installing railing all along Euclid. Usually something tragic must happen for action to be taken.>>

 

Action has been taken. If all laws are followed, things should go smoothly. Like I said earlier, if you break laws, you face consequences.

 

 

I'm sensing a lot of the same train of thought that resulted in the fence being left on the Detroit-Superior Bridge Promenade. Bear with me, it's somewhat related.

 

According to state law, the original railings of the Detroit-Superior Bridge are up to code and by law - the fences aren't necessary. However, because a few concerned parties lobbied for the fences (mainly to protect people from their own stupidity and/or inflicting their stupidity on others), the fences stayed. As Lillian Kuri said - "it's sad that in America we use the lowest-common denominator of human behavior as the starting point for design." Sorry - as JMasek has said, you can only do so much to protect people from themselves.

^I always wondered why that stupid fence staid up on the DS Bridge Promenade, thanks.

 

X, I like your thought of expanding the cross walk to continue the length of the platform.  Or add a second cross walk, with pedestrian signal (coinciding with that at the corner) at the platform end, but that would cost a lot of $.  I'm sure people generally agree that people jaywalk at their own risk, but sometimes that kind of behavior is indicative of room for design improvements- I think we're just enjoying fleshing them out, not really second guessing RTA.

 

JMasek and JeTDoG and others who've visited the stations, do the station structures make visibility tough from the jaywalking end of the platform, or can you still see pretty well if traffic is coming?

^I always wondered why that stupid fence staid up on the DS Bridge Promenade, thanks.

 

X, I like your thought of expanding the cross walk to continue the length of the platform.  Or add a second cross walk, with pedestrian signal (coinciding with that at the corner) at the platform end, but that would cost a lot of $.  I'm sure people generally agree that people jaywalk at their own risk, but sometimes that kind of behavior is indicative of room for design improvements- I think we're just enjoying fleshing them out, not really second guessing RTA.

 

JMasek and JeTDoG and others who've visited the stations, do the station structures make visibility tough from the jaywalking end of the platform, or can you still see pretty well if traffic is coming?

 

I think the open design of the station structures makes for pretty good visibility (yay for tempered glass and steel! :-) ), but for some people, visibility takes way more than just opening their eyes... to mention another point of behavior that had to be seen to be believed, I also witnessed one individual, running for the bus that was pulled up to the platform, dash his way between the bus and the structure's busway-side wall, along the concrete "pyramids" that are supposed to discourage such behavior... there truly are no limitations to human foolishness/stupidity.

^Wow- OK, that one is pretty crazy.  Happily Cleveland weather will help encourage people to go through the station...

I just walked from from East 24th to East 9th down Euclid and it really is coming along quite well.  However, the beeping sound for blind citizens is a bit deafening.  And since intersections are relatively closely spaces, you go from one to the other and hear the noise the entire length of the CSU campus.  Not sure if they are just testing these things today, but that would drive me up the wall if I were living on Euclid.  Hopefully it's a temporary nuisance.  Any comments jmasek?

I like your thought of expanding the cross walk to continue the length of the platform. Or add a second cross walk, with pedestrian signal (coinciding with that at the corner) at the platform end, but that would cost a lot of $. Do the station structures make visibility tough from the jaywalking end of the platform, or can you still see pretty well if traffic is coming?

 

Please visit a station or two, watch traffic and watch pedestrians, and I believe that you will immediately withdraw your idea as impractical and unworkable.

I just walked from from East 24th to East 9th down Euclid and it really is coming along quite well. However, the beeping sound for blind citizens is a bit deafening. And since intersections are relatively closely spaces, you go from one to the other and hear the noise the entire length of the CSU campus. Not sure if they are just testing these things today, but that would drive me up the wall if I were living on Euclid.  Hopefully it's a temporary nuisance.

 

The Project was designed to meet all ADA requirements, and we are proud of that. We worked closely with members of the disabled community to be sure that it meets their needs. There may be some tweaking as time goes on, but right now, "it is what it is."

I just walked from from East 24th to East 9th down Euclid and it really is coming along quite well. However, the beeping sound for blind citizens is a bit deafening. And since intersections are relatively closely spaces, you go from one to the other and hear the noise the entire length of the CSU campus. Not sure if they are just testing these things today, but that would drive me up the wall if I were living on Euclid.  Hopefully it's a temporary nuisance.

 

The Project was designed to meet all ADA requirements, and we are proud of that. We worked closely with members of the disabled community to be sure that it meets their needs. There may be some tweaking as time goes on, but right now, "it is what it is."

 

Totally understand the drive to make it ADA accessible, just reporting that the sound is borderline unbearable.

I believe it is all construction. All growth benefits the Corridor, and all growth will benefit from the Silver Line.

 

I don't disagree with the sentiment, but I think it would be useful for RTA to track development that occurs as a more direct result of Silver Line as it would be a more accurate portrayal of the economic development potential of transit projects-- something that would benefit not just RTA, but transit agencies all across the country.

 

 

^I just think that is too difficult to track with certainty in a city. 

Now if a suburb gets a new freeway interchange and sprawl marts pop up along with mid rise office buildings, you can make a direct correlation.

Now if a technology company wants to move to Euclid Ave, did they move there because of the silver line, or close to the Idea center, or near Gateway, or near other technology companies, or near CSU / Case...you get the point. 

The best thing may be to say before the Silver line was launched, X millions of dollars of developments were under way, by the time the Silver line finished, XXX billions of dollars of development was underway or completed.

^that's more of what I was thinking.  you just explained it better.  thanks.

^I just think that is too difficult to track with certainty in a city. 

Now if a suburb gets a new freeway interchange and sprawl marts pop up along with mid rise office buildings, you can make a direct correlation.

Now if a technology company wants to move to Euclid Ave, did they move there because of the silver line, or close to the Idea center, or near Gateway, or near other technology companies, or near CSU / Case...you get the point. 

The best thing may be to say before the Silver line was launched, X millions of dollars of developments were under way, by the time the Silver line finished, XXX billions of dollars of development was underway or completed.

 

Yeah, its not like when you fill out construction permits or whatever, there's a line item question:

 

"Why did you choose to build here?"

I am not keeping track of the numbers, I am just reporting them.

 

Please remember that this project has been discussed for many, many years, and it has been on the minds of developers and planners for just as long. Many projects were conceived and financed long before the backhoes appeared. The construction project has a definite beginning and end, but it is impossible to measure the time the project had, or is having, an impact on developers.

 

^I understand that it's difficult to track.  However considering how dead Euclid Avenue has been for so long, particularly between CSU and the Cleveland Clinic, I don't think it's unreasonable to consider that building renovations that have recently occurred  and new housing and retail, etc that goes in over the next few years is probably the result of the Silver Line. 

 

At the same time, I don't think it's unreasonable to say that the new heart center at the Clinic and the Art museum expansion would have occurred if the Silver Line were never built. 

 

Sometimes, the way that $2 billion figure is presented, it sounds like the Silver Line is responsible for all of it, which I think everyone would agree is not the case.  I'm just trying to consider how this figure could be twisted around by critics and if there is a way around that.  But, if it's not possible to track in a different way, then I suppose my thinking wasn't very sound from the start. 

 

 

I don't think they (RTA) is taking credit for the $2 billion in developement along the silver line, rather they are saying there is $2 billion in development along the silver line.  Therefore because of this, there is a demand for alternative transportation alonf Euclid and that warrents the contruction of the BRT. 

^All I said was the way the numbers are sometimes presented they come across that way (and that depends on how the media reports them).  I understand what RTA is saying, and I wasn't trying to imply that RTA is intentionally taking the credit. I apologize if I gave that impression.

Question

 

Mr. Masek, what were the reasons that construction between Euclid/E12 and Tower City is taking so much longer than the rest of the road?  I only ask because I would have thought RTA would want that particular area finished as soon as possible for aesthetic and pragmatic reasons, as that is probably the most pedestrian-congested area downtown?

 

 

ah, thanks a lot!

Rode the #6 from CSU to Mayfield Rd today.  It's already much faster and I'm looking forward to the new buses next fall.  I was a bit peeved that the kiosk in Tower City that has all the bus schedules hadn't been stocked for the weekend.  It appeared that there were no schedules for almost all the most common routes-- including the #6 which I needed. 

 

The LED display in the station where I picked up the #6 never changed from "next bus 5 minutes" right up until it pulled into the station.  I'm sure the bugs will get worked out, though.  Overall it was a good preview of what's to come.  I like that the station stops are all automatically announced. 

 

Euclid sure is torn up downtown, but it's best to replace that sewer line now.  All the people (like Feagler) who have been moaning about the construction don't seem to understand that not only do streets need to be rebuilt from time to time but there is a lot of infrastructure underneath them that sometimes needs work too.  There is no construction fairy who can wave a magic wand and make everything perfect without temporary inconvenience.  Why are the complainers incapable of looking ahead a few months in order to realize that Euclid Avenue is going to look better than it has in decades once it's all done? 

 

 

Euclid sure is torn up downtown, but it's best to replace that sewer line now.  All the people (like Feagler) who have been moaning about the construction don't seem to understand that not only do streets need to be rebuilt from time to time but there is a lot of infrastructure underneath them that sometimes needs work too.  There is no construction fairy who can wave a magic wand and make everything perfect without temporary inconvenience.  Why are the complainers incapable of looking ahead a few months in order to realize that Euclid Avenue is going to look better than it has in decades once it's all done? 

 

Amen to that.  It's going to be really annoying the first time the city or a utility has to dig up part of Euclid and leaves behind a scar on its nice new concrete surface- I'm all for getting the work done now.

So I got off the rapid a little after 8am on Saturday morning (had a New Lawyer's CLE requirement at the CSU law school) and was the only person walking on Euclid.  There was no traffic and no other pedestriains, just me and a ton of bulldozers of various sizes.  It wasn't disconcerting but actually kind of neat - sort of like Tom Cruise looking around a vacant Times Square in the begining of Vanilla Sky.

 

I eventually saw someone walking towards my direction around E9, and the two of us greeted each other with jokes about how post-apocalyptic (with the roads being all torn up, the empty vehicles, complete lack of traffic, pedestrians, or noises)  Euclid Avenue seemed.  Anyway, I had to get to my class so I got her number, saw her that night (she lives in W.D.), and have been in a good mood ever since.

 

I take back EVERYTHING bad I've said about this project because it was the icebreaker that resulted in my meeting and now dating this person.  So thanks a lot:)

 

 

So I got off the rapid a little after 8am on Saturday morning (had a New Lawyer's CLE requirement at the CSU law school) and was the only person walking on Euclid.  There was no traffic and no other pedestriains, just me and a ton of bulldozers of various sizes.  It wasn't disconcerting but actually kind of neat - sort of like Tom Cruise looking around a vacant Times Square in the begining of Vanilla Sky.

 

I eventually saw someone walking towards my direction around E9, and the two of us greeted each other with jokes about how post-apocalyptic (with the roads being all torn up, the empty vehicles, complete lack of traffic, pedestrians, or noises)  Euclid Avenue seemed.  Anyway, I had to get to my class so I got her number, saw her that night (she lives in W.D.), and have been in a good mood ever since.

 

I take back EVERYTHING bad I've said about this project because it was the icebreaker that resulted in my meeting and now dating this person.  So thanks a lot:)

 

 

 

lol, congrats!!

Anyway, I had to get to my class so I got her number, saw her that night (she lives in W.D.), and have been in a good mood ever since.

I take back EVERYTHING bad I've said about this project because it was the icebreaker that resulted in my meeting and now dating this person.  So thanks a lot:)

 

(Wink) RTA strives to be a full-service transit agency...you're welcome.

Amen to that.  It's going to be really annoying the first time the city or a utility has to dig up part of Euclid and leaves behind a scar on its nice new concrete surface- I'm all for getting the work done now.

 

It's funny you should mention that. While the road surface is torn up, RTA has been working with the 20+ utilities whose lines run through the project area (in the case of telecoms, this may even include providers who don't offer service in the area, but whose lines happen to run through the ground) to maximize their access to their lines.

 

Also, if you've noticed, anywhere concrete has been poured, it's usually been some time after the initial slab pour that the utility manholes, water shutoffs, etc... have had their immediate surroundings poured -- this is by design. Separating the manhole or other utility access pours into modular "subslabs" allows for future scarring to be kept to a minimum, since a contractor might only need to dig up the portion immediately surrounding the utility access. Obviously, this wouldn't be as meaningful in the case of something like a sewer line replacement, but that's why the city is doing lower Euclid now.

^Wow- that's fantastic, thanks for the info.

So I got off the rapid a little after 8am on Saturday morning (had a New Lawyer's CLE requirement at the CSU law school) and was the only person walking on Euclid.  There was no traffic and no other pedestriains, just me and a ton of bulldozers of various sizes.  It wasn't disconcerting but actually kind of neat - sort of like Tom Cruise looking around a vacant Times Square in the begining of Vanilla Sky.

 

I eventually saw someone walking towards my direction around E9, and the two of us greeted each other with jokes about how post-apocalyptic (with the roads being all torn up, the empty vehicles, complete lack of traffic, pedestrians, or noises)  Euclid Avenue seemed.  Anyway, I had to get to my class so I got her number, saw her that night (she lives in W.D.), and have been in a good mood ever since.

 

I take back EVERYTHING bad I've said about this project because it was the icebreaker that resulted in my meeting and now dating this person.  So thanks a lot:)

 

Looks like I need to walk along Euclid more often! But how did you get from talking about a ripped-up street to asking her for her phone number?

 

-- Signed, Clueless in Cleveland

JMasek and JeTDoG, please cut me some slack on this line of chatter...one of the fun things to do on this board is to daydream about transit expansion.  One of the inherent weaknesses of the ECP is that its route runs through pretty low pop density areas.  I by no means mean this as an insult to the project or to imply I don't like it (I do), but I do point it out as a limitation to tapping into greater existing ridership demand.

 

Can anyone imagine a future in which the BRT line is extended westward (for example, into the west side gold line route), or a Cleveland Heights spur is added to bring more people into the corridor with a one-seat ride?

From today's PD.  I talked about this a couple days ago, and it is ridiculous even though RTA calls it "white noise" and people will eventually not notice it.  I highly doubt it.  

 

 

"The part of the Euclid Corri dor that is mostly finished near Cleveland State University features fresh new pavement, modern-looking center-median bus shelters and a soundtrack.

It goes like this: Beep. Beep. Beep. Beep. Beep. Beep.

It sounds like a city going in reverse.

"It's going 24/7," said Euclid Avenue resident John Coleman, who runs the Cousin's Cigar Shop on Euclid near East 18th Street.

The sound is intentional. Every crosswalk, including those mid-block, contains a box that constantly emits a beeping noise so blind people can find a button that, when pressed, tells them when it's safe to cross the street. The beeping never stops.

Cousin's customers are confounded. Last weekend, a woman stood staring at the beeping box at East 18th Street and simply said, "Weird."

"Why does it have to be so loud?" said a woman who works at a business on Euclid. "It's very, very loud." At a residential building on Euclid, one person has complained that the beeping interrupts sleep at night.

Frustrated folks have wedged a sponge between a box and utility pole, over the speaker, at one crosswalk and a rolled-up newspaper at another.

RTA says the assisted crosswalks are compliant with the Americans with Disabilities Act.

On Euclid, progress sounds like a truck backing up to a loading dock.

Steve Albro, who teaches blind people mobility practices at the Cleveland Sight Center and heads the Regional Transit Authority's ADA committee, said the beeping is necessary to help blind people cross. "It may be the newness. It's something that gets to be kind of white noise after a while. They've had them in Berea for years and you don't hear complaints on Berea Commons," he said.

RTA's Chad Self said the agency would look into lowering the volume of the beeping boxes and make other adjustments "to see what works."

 

 

 

I wonder if GCRTA could do what was done on the OSU campus with a man (albeit a drowsy, boring sounding man) states: The walk sign to cross Neil Avenue is now on, The walk sign to cross Neil Avenue is now on.  That seems like it would be less anoying to people along the corridor. This could be a serious issue if people looking at moving into housing or business locations along the corridor are turned off because of the constant beeping.

"Looks like I need to walk along Euclid more often! But how did you get from talking about a ripped-up street to asking her for her phone number?"

 

Joking about the construction and lack of pedestrians/traffic was the ice breaker.  This transistioned into why we were outside on a cold Saturday monring, which led to flirting banter, which eventually led to exchanging phone numbers. 

damn, and to think i was walking that same stretch of land saturday morning, you beat me to it!

Joking about the construction and lack of pedestrians/traffic was the ice breaker.  This transistioned into why we were outside on a cold Saturday monring, which led to flirting banter, which eventually led to exchanging phone numbers. 

 

I guess I would have expected a woman to be too scared to interact with a man on a desolate city street. But I'm probably just expecting that others are just as shy and introverted as me. And such interaction wouldn't fit into my pre-planned routine for the day...

 

Anyway, back to the Euclid Corridor.

JMasek and JeTDoG, please cut me some slack on this line of chatter...one of the fun things to do on this board is to daydream about transit expansion.  One of the inherent weaknesses of the ECP is that its route runs through pretty low pop density areas.  I by no means mean this as an insult to the project or to imply I don't like it (I do), but I do point it out as a limitation to tapping into greater existing ridership demand.

 

Can anyone imagine a future in which the BRT line is extended westward (for example, into the west side gold line route), or a Cleveland Heights spur is added to bring more people into the corridor with a one-seat ride?

 

consider the slack cut :-) in a nutshell, my personal opinion is yes; I'd love to see it, and genuinely could see it happening... all progress likely starts as daydreams

One of the inherent weaknesses of the ECP is that its route runs through pretty low pop density areas...a limitation to tapping into greater existing ridership demand.

 

11,000 people daily ride the #6...they must come from somewhere. We expect growth around the Corridor to result in more nearby residential, which will translate into even more riders. Look for BRT or something similar along Clifton Blvd. in a few years -- it is already being discussed.

if the brt is very successful, has shutting down the east side red line also been discussed?

 

well....someone had to ask.

:shoot: :shoot: :shoot: :shoot: :shoot: :shoot:

if the brt is very successful, has shutting down the east side red line also been discussed?

 

well....someone had to ask.

They are planning a new station on the red line so I doubt that is an option.

^Multiple station projects, in fact (Cedar and Mayfield).

 

One of the inherent weaknesses of the ECP is that its route runs through pretty low pop density areas...a limitation to tapping into greater existing ridership demand.

 

11,000 people daily ride the #6...they must come from somewhere. We expect growth around the Corridor to result in more nearby residential, which will translate into even more riders. Look for BRT or something similar along Clifton Blvd. in a few years -- it is already being discussed.

 

I don't disagree that there is already an existing ridership base- I'm just curious about routing options that could grow that 11,000 a lot more to really take advantage of all that new infrastructure (even 15k would be pretty light ridership for a "rapid transit system" by most standards).  Residential development along the route will certainly help, but that may not even be enough to offset the population loss along the route in East Cleveland (which from the 1990 to 2000 census was substantial).  The Clifton BRT sounds great- as everyone knows, the pop density there is huge- and it would be great if there was a way to tie it into the ECP to really max out the potential of both.

If the BRT is very successful, has shutting down the east side Red Line also been discussed?

 

No, RTA has such a huge infrastructure investment in the rail and stations that it would be folly to even consider it. The stations were built with 80 percent federal funds, and if we closed them, the FTA would seek reimbursement of millions of dollars that we do not have. So, operationally and financially, it is not going to happen.

 

Also, our research has found that there are "rail riders" and "bus riders" -- and each has a disdain for other modes of transit. Your assumption that shutting down the rail would force more people onto the bus is not 100 percent accurate. It would also drive some people away from transit completely.

I'd imagine (speaking unprofessionally) That with a new corridor being established South of the Silver Line and North of Red Line, hopefully we can see a focused development pattern taking advantage of this excellent built infrastructure.

They are planning a new station on the red line so I doubt that is an option.

 

Where?

University Circle

Ahhh yes.. forgot about that, sorry everyone.  Brain freeze for a minute.

Multiple station projects, in fact (Cedar and Mayfield)

 

Is the proposed Mayfield station project still on the table?  That would be fantastic.  Little Italy would benefit a great deal by moving the E. 120th station to Mayfield.  Although I know that some of the residents there don't favor the idea. 

 

I don't disagree that there is already an existing ridership base- I'm just curious about routing options that could grow that 11,000 a lot more to really take advantage of all that new infrastructure (even 15k would be pretty light ridership for a "rapid transit system" by most standards).  Residential development along the route will certainly help, but that may not even be enough to offset the population loss along the route in East Cleveland (which from the 1990 to 2000 census was substantial).  The Clifton BRT sounds great- as everyone knows, the pop density there is huge- and it would be great if there was a way to tie it into the ECP to really max out the potential of both.

 

 

We're already seeing some development along the corridor since construction began.  Right now, it's in the form of building renovations and some new retail by CSU.  I have no doubts that more development will occur. Euclid will be a beautiful street when it's done and that should beg for more development. 

 

Add in redevelopment of the Flats East Bank and the proposed "Pesht" project, and you're going to see a lot more downtown residents. That will benefit the Corridor too.  Think how easy it will be for all those new residents to hop on the Silver Line on those nice roomy buses and go out to Severance Hall, the museums, Little Italy, or to work at Case or the Clinic, etc.  Several of the city's finest assets are along Euclid.  The Silver Line is a great way to tie them together.

 

East of University Circle things will definitely take a longer time, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that things could change for the better there too.  I get to that area now and then for work.  It's hard to believe that I spent the first 5 years of my life just a couple of miles from Windermere.  East Cleveland was a nice place in the 60's.   

If the BRT is very successful, has shutting down the east side Red Line also been discussed?

 

No, RTA has such a huge infrastructure investment in the rail and stations that it would be folly to even consider it. The stations were built with 80 percent federal funds, and if we closed them, the FTA would seek reimbursement of millions of dollars that we do not have. So, operationally and financially, it is not going to happen.

 

Also, our research has found that there are "rail riders" and "bus riders" -- and each has a disdain for other modes of transit. Your assumption that shutting down the rail would force more people onto the bus is not 100 percent accurate. It would also drive some people away from transit completely.

 

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