I thought they were looking at articulated buses?

WHAT???  Those are the same size (roughly) as the current buses!  I thought these were supposed to be extended buses that could carry much more capacity!  That, and they're ugly!

Hm that's a far cry from the "preliminary rendering of the ECV" that I've seen in the past..

 

 

And forgive my ignorance but weren't they supposed to be low-floor vehicles?  Does the Orange Crush qualify..  Looks like a lotta daylight underneath there but again I know nothing about busses.

Well, what do ya know?  RTA sold Clevelanders up the river.  Tell me no one saw that coming....

Yeah, that's the one I remembered!  So sleek and much bigger!  What the heck is up with that???

wait i thought they already purchased the buses?!!?!

 

i seen those buses in mexico, they're like normal rta buses with a different look

Now with busses like this, its just an overly expensive road repaving. People will go back on this seeing how RTA gave people a raw deal for a huge wad of cash, and in the future will not support ANY of RTA's future proposed projects.

wha...? i hope it runs on water or air or that there is something special about it because i aint seein special.

 

is that example the team bus for the university of dayton?

The front view does look nice but I agree the side views look like only a slightly more modern version of something the Rockford Peaches from "A League of Their Own" rode in.

There's no crying in baseball!

 

Seriously, I think this articulated bus, thought not necessarily a thing of beauty, will serve the Euclid Corridor well.  I woulkd have preferred a light rail line, but that's a decision well beyond the control of any of us.  GCRTA made the decision to go with Bus Rapid Transit and that's not going to change.  What they need to do now is make sure that the vehicles they choose for this corridor are the most functional and in enough numbers to be able to run fast, freqently and in a timely fashion.  That's the concern of most bus riders I know.... getting where you want to go and when you want to go.

but seriously, if it looks just like the bus we got on before the 3 years of crap that we had to put up with (never mind the expenditure!), I don't think the public is going to be all that thrilled...

yeah, there better be some hella streetscaping to make this look like more than a glorified six (and yes i am familiar with the renderings/designs)

 

still i'm waiting to see the finished product before i become a pundit

I vote for extended cab Hummers!  I want some bang for my buck.

 

Here's a catalog full of options:  http://www.gobrt.org/vehiclecatalog.pdf  There are some neat ones in there (and some uglier than what RTA is proposing).  Looks like they traded in page 16 for the big purple bug. 

i just remember a few of the nicer (looking?) couldn't be used b/c they hadn't seen action in any markets with snowfall like clevelands.

Euclid Avenue's future look a nod to heyday's form, not just function

Monday, November 07, 2005

Tom Breckenridge

Plain Dealer Reporter

 

........

That is a 3 story office building with 36,000 sq ft on the ground floor. 

I'm glad to see form-based zoning getting attention in the PD. These overlays are critical for rejuvenating our city.

Glad it's only taking 25 years and a quarter billion dollars to grow transit ridership by 10,000 a day.   

 

While I like the form-based zoning code (which I believe should extend to the entire city), I have *serious* reservations that the transit project will spur investment or coerce people to live in the corridor.  The lack of will to build a more permanent form of transit infrastructure shows weak commitment to the Euclid corridor.  Why would private investors be expected to demonstrate anything greater?

Besides high-tech development west of East 55th, Heartland Developers LLC of Shaker Heights wants to construct an office building at East 46th. And MidTown is in serious talks with developer Nathan Zaremba about development that could bring up to 500 dwellings to both sides of Euclid, from East 71st to East 79th.

 

Woohoo!  Woohoo! Woohoo!  Woohoo! Woohoo!  Woohoo! Woohoo!  Woohoo! Woohoo! Woohoo! Woohoo!  Woohoo! Woohoo!  Woohoo! Woohoo!  Woohoo! Woohoo!  Woohoo! Woohoo!  Woohoo! Woohoo! Woohoo! Woohoo!  Woohoo!

 

Ahem....That is to say "encouraging development in the future development of Midtown."

i thought zaremba was more of a re-developer than a developer?

Glad it's only taking 25 years and a quarter billion dollars to grow transit ridership by 10,000 a day.   

 

While I like the form-based zoning code (which I believe should extend to the entire city), I have *serious* reservations that the transit project will spur investment or coerce people to live in the corridor.  The lack of will to build a more permanent form of transit infrastructure shows weak commitment to the Euclid corridor.  Why would private investors be expected to demonstrate anything greater?

 

So what would you propose? 

Pope, most, if not all, of Zaremba's work is new construction:

 

http://www.zarembahomes.com/default.asp

hmmm....i just remmber them buying an absolutely random ass collection of like 1000 homes throughout detroit (maybe i have the company wrong)

I think Zaremba is strictly local.

Glad it's only taking 25 years and a quarter billion dollars to grow transit ridership by 10,000 a day. 

 

 

considering the city lost half it's population in that time it would be quite remarkable.

 

 

I think Zaremba is strictly local.

 

There are TWO Zaremba's that I know of.  Zaremba Management (www.zaremba.net) & Zaremba Homes (www.zarembahomes.com). Both Cleveland based, however, I don't know if ZM bought anything in Detroit.

Here is a related article about a BRT line in California. The writer is a county supervisor.

 

Opening of New Orange Line Dedicated Busway

 

Orange Line opens Oct. 29, and Supervisor Yaroslavsky hails it as a potential "revolution."

 

The Metro Orange Line, running the width of the Valley and scheduled to open October 29, represents a true innovation in American transit. It is the first dedicated busway in the United States, and L.A. County Supervisor Zev Yaroslavsky says that a dedicated busway featuring articulated buses and rail-style stations might, becuase of lower cost and greater flexibility, be superior to rail in some areas. In the following piece, adapted from a speech he gave at a Mobility 21 meeting Oct. 7, Supervisor Yaroslavsky recounts the political and technical vision that led to the Orange Line. Furthermore, he predicts that the Orange Line may not only make a significant contribution to mobility in the Valley, but also provide a model for future rapid transit projects throughout the region.

Let me start as I will end by inviting everyone to ride on the Orange Line. And believe me when I say this and Im not prone to hyperbole it sells itself. Its something you should experience, because youll see something that may, and, I think, will set a pattern for the way we address public transportation problems in this region for years to come.

 

............

 

 

http://www.metroinvestmentreport.com/article/305

Curitiba Curitiba Curitiba.  Yawn.  If I hear one more person invoke that Third World city....

 

Seriously.  BRT is a sham.  It only works in Curitiba, Brazil because 1) people there are dirt poor, and most of the residents will never be able to afford a personal vehicle and 2) Curitiba has very strict zoning regulations the purposely promote high-density uses along the "rapid" transit corridors. 

 

When will people understand that flexibility is a NEGATIVE aspect of transit???  Geez.  Ever wonder why development occurs at rail stations but not at bus stops?  It's a heck of a lot easier to rip a bus stop sign out of the ground than to demolish a subway station.  The lack of permanence and fixture is a guarantee of failure--no one wants to have to guess where the transit line is going to go and where it will stop.

^Thank you! I couldn't have said it any better myself, even though I've made numerous attempt over the years.

 

Trying to make transit more like cars causes it fail at both.

I believe Zaremba took over Primo's operations...and if anyone knows Primo you'd know this is a great thing.

So long as they dont do a shitbanger job on the planters, station buildings, and public art that runs down the middle and along the sides, it gives it permance. We just havent been given any renderings of this however.....

There are places where BRT has caused development, however. One that immediately comes to mind is Ottawa Transitway. One ride on it will show you why -- it is a totally dedicated roadway built only for buses. Some of it is on bridges. Some of it is in a long cut, dug out of rock, with dual-level stations. The density along it is pretty impressive and so was the ridership that I saw -- standing room-only articulated buses at midday.

 

However, there is still a debate as to whether it should have been light rail, or should still be converted to light rail. Here's a link to an article about that debate...

 

http://www.lightrailnow.org/myths/m_otw001.htm

 

Or this article....

 

http://www.lightrailnow.org/myths/m_brt003.htm

 

Here's some pictures of Ottawa's Transitway....

 

 

 

 

 

 

By the way, there have been renderings of the Euclid Corridor. Here are a few.....

 

 

 

 

These and other images are available at:

 

http://euclidtransit.org/rapid_transit_system/design_engineering.asp

 

It takes a few seconds for all the images to appear on the page.

Right, don't forget that RTA is building stations along the route. That's a lot more permanent than a bus sign.

Hey, if I had my druthers, RTA would be doing a new rail or streetcar line. But I do think this is a step in the right direction.

yes, on the permanence issue, this will have more permanence than a regular bus route. 

 

On the other hand, it's already been scaled back from earlier versions of itself, where it was a "trackless trolly," running on overhead wires and apparently now from a double-length articulated bus to just a newer bus with funny looking curves. 

And that's the problem. Our choices are between nothing and, "not bad." We need to be better than that.

 

By the way, does anyone really have their druthers? If so, where can I buy them?

I know chicago is looking to make an "outer loop" and a large segment of that is BRT.

 

I'll try to find the article

 

Are we too late (or too few, or too unpowerful) to try and encourage the RTA to do this better?  Don't get me wrong, I'll be happy for stations and the streetscaping is great, but if they're going to all these lengths to roll this thing out in style, shouldn't they really just go for it? 

The Euclid Corridor project is anything but permanent, which is why it's such a shame it's taking so much time and money.  All one has to do is send the buses down a different street, and any investments along Euclid are undermined.  Not too hard to do that.

 

While I'm thinking of it, I've read that Arlington County, Virginia realizes a 19% ANNUAL return on its investment in the Metrorail system, due to increased property values surrounding the subway stations.  Anyone want to venture how close RTA comes to that figure along the Euclid Corridor?  For what it's worth, 90% of all new development in Arlington is on 10% of its land. 

 

To my knowledge, the "outer loop" proposed for Chicago will be commuter rail in the suburbs, connecting the spokes of the existing Metra commuter system, and stopping at ORD.

 

We are too late. And, further increases in costs could doom the project. The Federal Transit Administration is watching this project closely.

 

In Chicago, some refer to the Outer Loop as the Circle Line, but I understand there's a third-tier looping transit route being considered, and that's probably what you're referring to. I couldn't find any maps of that third-tier vision, but here's a map of the proposed Circle Line, shown in yellow below, that would be an expansion of the elevated railway system, linking the various radial el lines, plus the Metra suburban commuter rail lines....

 

 

To my knowledge, the "outer loop" proposed for Chicago will be commuter rail in the suburbs, connecting the spokes of the existing Metra commuter system, and stopping at ORD.

 

That's right. Thanks for reminding me. It is a Metra route being considered for the "outer loop" but I believe the operative term for it is the STAR line....

 

 

Now, back to Cleveland the Euclid Corridor..........

 

 

 

Thanks, KJP.  I think I got CTA's Outer Loop project confused with Metra's STAR route.  I like the added degree of redundancy, which has been needed in Chicago for about 100 years.  What I want to know, is do they really think they can run this "Gold" Line through the existing Red Line subway without affecting headways?  From what I recall, the Red Line is "bumper-to-bumper" through the State Street subway during rush hour, especially since the stations through that stretch are at most 1/4 mile apart.

Good question. Actually, the State Street tunnel is pretty much one long station platform, so the gold line trains could probably stop anywhere along it. I also like the pedestrian tunnels to the Blue Line, even though they are claustrophobia inducing. They can be very helpful, especially in winter.

 

Back to Euclid Corridor......

I know I've been a curmudgeon about the Euclid Corridor Project from the get-go.  I guess that as someone who rides the subway every day, RTA's logic doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.  What would make me a little less edgy, was if RTA actually had some long-term plans for system expansion and improvement.  It just seems to me that they're willing to "build" this one bus line, and then call it a career.  Whatever happened to planning for the future?

 

No matter who wins the mayoral election, I think he/she needs to realize the importance of transit to the city, and develop a better working relationship with RTA to coordinate land-use, development, and transit improvements.

And NOACA...don't forget the organization whose decision it was to forgo the light rail option altogether!

No matter who wins the mayoral election, I think he/she needs to realize the importance of transit to the city, and develop a better working relationship with RTA to coordinate land-use, development, and transit improvements.

 

I was just looking through Frank Jackson's multi-page manifesto earlier today, and saw the only reference to transit was to designate a liaison in the city administration to work with RTA on promoting development along the Euclid Corridor. That's it.

 

Calabrese is a details man who focuses on operations, not capital expansion. He's said in the past that RTA should take on only one or two major capital expansion projects at a time. However, I've not heard what's next after Euclid Corridor. I would have thought RTA would be starting about now to ramp up activity for that next project, whatever it might be, given the time it takes to undertake preliminary engineering, environmental impact studies, securing federal approvals and funding, and finally, construction.

unfortunately i think rta is planning ahead -- for more brt!! ugh!

 

i.e., i saw it mentioned somewhere as an option for the westside via the rebuilt shoreway.

While I'm thinking of it, I've read that Arlington County, Virginia realizes a 19% ANNUAL return on its investment in the Metrorail system, due to increased property values surrounding the subway stations.  Anyone want to venture how close RTA comes to that figure along the Euclid Corridor?  For what it's worth, 90% of all new development in Arlington is on 10% of its land. 

 

 

i do miss the car mechanics and bland one story nothingness of the orange line 30 years ago

That's too bad, KJP.  One would hope that the mayor of a big city could see the link between public transportation and economic development.  We need to have Mr. Jackson meet with Mike Bloomberg and go for a ride together on the 6 train.  The lack of attention to development of transportation options (considering that Steelyard Commons is promoted on the premise that residents won't have to travel outside the city) is appalling.

 

I'm very disappointed in RTA in that they instead of performing a fair, obective analysis of transit options, they are ready to dive head-first into an unproven technology.  At the very least, they should look at the results LA has achieved (or failed to achieve), because I'm pretty sure their Red Line subway far outperforms any of their BRT lines.  Penny-wise and pound-foolish, but I'm preaching to the choir. 

 

If Calabrese really has that much inattention to capital projects, then he should be demoted to some kind of VP of operations.  A General Manager position, by its nature, requires attention to all aspects of the operation.

 

Time to start kicking Frank Jackson in the ass to remind him how a real city is supposed to function.

 

 

 

 

RTA approves Euclid Corridor contract

Local firm to start first phase in March

Wednesday, January 25, 2006

James Ewinger

Plain Dealer Reporter

 

The Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority on Tuesday approved a $22.6 million contract for the first phase of the Euclid Corridor project on the street that bears its name.

 

This contract amounts to the starting gun, because other work and expenditures to date have been in support of the corridor project, including acquisition of property and construction of bus-only lanes on Superior and St. Clair avenues.

 

Terrace Construction Co. of Cleveland was the low bidder and will rehabilitate two miles of the street, from the Inner Belt Bridge to East 79th Street.

 

........

 

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1138181974163710.xml&coll=2