Yes, the Walker building.  You guys rock, thanks.

I'm can see my office in that picture! Weird.

I'm can see my office in that picture! Weird.

 

No what would be weird is if you said, "I can see my former office in that picture."    ;) 

rockandroller, did our advice help, and what did you think of the Healthline on its own merits, and compared to the previous service?

Rode the HealthLine this morning around 9am and the experience is improving.

 

Departed Public Square at 9:15

Arrived at Adelbert and Euclid at 9:37

Total Trip: 22 minutes

 

There are still a few bugs to work out:

- RTV departing public square.  A vehicle pulled out from the station in front of terminal tower at 9:06, and then waited a few feet from the stop for at least 1 minute until the light at Ontario changed.  Meanwhile, 10 additional people arrived and wanted to get on.  Perhaps the vehicle operator can pay more attention to the actual traffic light before departing this station?  It doesn't seem to make much sense to pull a few feet forward from the station and then stop at the light - when it could just drive right through a green light from the station-especially when the next vehicle didn't arrive for 8 or 9 minutes.

- Overall traffic timing seemed improved.  E6 still was a long wait, as well as 1 stop at CSU. 

- Gaps between vehicle and station.  Granted it is early in the winter season and the drivers may be still learning, but the gaps were at least a foot at most stops, causing 1 disabled person some trouble exiting the bus with a seeing eye dog.

- Stop announcement.  Has been working on most of the vehicles lately.  2 issues I have seen on a couple of different rides: 1) rear LCD display does not work when front display is working (vehicle 2901 this morning); 2) audio stop announcements stop working properly when stop request bar is pressed.  Also, is it possible that the LCD will display "stop requested" when the bar is pressed?  I've seen a number of riders continue to press the bar and not be able to tell if it has already been activated for a stop request.

 

Overall, many of the bugs appear to be working out.

rockandroller, did our advice help, and what did you think of the Healthline on its own merits, and compared to the previous service?

 

The clinic called me at 6am thursday morning to tell me my doc had the flu and they cancelled my appointment, so I didn't get to try it out after all.  I was actually glad they called that early as I was almost out the door and would have been on my way there and wouldn't have known til I got there otherwise.  I am trying to reschedule but it's a nightmare scheduling appointments with this department as you can't don't use the organization's system-wide scheduling system for it and the last time I made an appt I had to call 4 times and speak to 5 different people to find someone who can actually make the appointments.  The new scheduling system is not an improvement.

Thanks for the detailed update.  I've been on it twice a day since it's opened, and it definitely is getting better, although there's still room for improvement.  I generally get between Public Square and University Circle in less than twenty minutes off of rush hour and around 25 during rush hour. 

I've seen improvements in the timing too.     

<<A vehicle pulled out from the station in front of terminal tower at 9:06, and then waited a few feet from the stop for at least 1 minute until the light at Ontario changed.>>

 

To keep vehicles spaced apart in rush hour, they leave Public Square on the fives, and they leave Windermere on the fives. If you wait for a green light, and then wait for boarding to end...your timining will be way off from the very start. Operators are doing what they are supposed to do.

I've seen improvements in the timing too.

 

As have I, although there is definitely still a significant amount of variation with regards to time spent at lights

This was posted in Streetsblog:

 

http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/11/11/rave-review-for-clevelands-brt-debut

 

I was disappointed that it was essentially a rehash of Litt's article. But it's cool to get some more exposure nonetheless.

Good trip in to UC this morning!

 

Depart Public Square: 8:30am

Arrive Adelbert and Euclid: 8:53

Total trip time: 23 minutes!

 

- The RTV stopped at almost all of the stops, skipping 2.

- The e6 light appeared to be adjusted - turned green for RTV before cars, and was a relatively quick cycle

- e18 and e40 were still prioritized for cars, giving a green turn arrow for cars before the bus

- automatic stop announcements (audio and visual) were working for entire trip(vehicle 2907)

- not any bunching of vehicles until UC, when RTV behind had almost caught up.

 

Overall, it was a very good experience and I'm pleased that travel time is significantly reduced.

Is 20 minutes the optimal time? 

Is 20 minutes the optimal time? 

 

I have taken the corridor frequently between E.18 & E.105, and the usual time is between 15-20 minutes.

 

 

Although it was nice to see Euclid ave. looking as busy as NYC on Friday night, notice how cars are just ignoring the dedicated "bus lane". Throughout its design I was always hoping that the bus lane could somehow distinguish itself a little more from the car lane. I seem to remember in the original design the bus lane was to have a different look or texture than the auto lane, maybe by using a different color concrete or some type of different surface to it. But I guess that may have been part a victim of the value engineering. I wonder if this will be a problem on busy nights in the immediate downtown area, especially around PlayhouseSquare.

Many many people view E14th as a freeway ramp extension, and they feel like their right to turn left there shall not be abridged.

I think they need to put more of the white pylons up to distinguish the lanes. 

 

I have to complain about the inadequate wind-protection of corridor brt shelters.  I am surprised there was not more of an effort to protect against the bitter wind that blows in the winter.

Is it illegal for cars to drive in a "bus only" lane, and by that I mean, is it punishable with a ticket or something?

I have to complain about the inadequate wind-protection of corridor brt shelters. I am surprised there was not more of an effort to protect against the bitter wind that blows in the winter.

 

This is the first thing anyone brings up when making conversation at a healthline stop.  Nobody can make sense of it.  The walls don't meet up.  They're not even close to fitting the frames.  It comes off like a cruel joke on days like today.  How much would it cost to send guys up and down the street with some spray-foam cans and shelterize these shelters?  If that's too much, how bout silver duct tape?

I still wonder how much protection would be provided even if the frames did fit together, for there are openings on the N,S,E, and W sides of the shelters.  But seriously, I think it's crazy. 

I was running to catch the bus after class about 2 weeks ago and there was a DHL delivery truck parked in front of the Idea Center in the rtv lane with its hazards on and the driver nowhere to be seen. If i wouldnt have been running to get the bus i woulda stopped and taken a few pics of the truck and the plate number but i was afraid of being stuck downtown for another hour if i missed it. 

I was also thinking about the new shelters around the square and on superior, which are of the same design but with only one door.  The effect of the wall-gaps is more noticable in those.  The actual Euclid stations, with openings facing each other, seem designed to focus wind on their occupants. 

 

I'm not sure what to do about this.  Maybe there could be free-standing walls, wider than the east and west doors and standing parallel maybe a couple feet beyond them, with just enough clearance to meet ADA.  Maybe these walls could have convex surfaces facing outward, to steer wind around the shelters.   

I'm wondering why bus shelters are designed this way, too. The new NYC bus shelters have even wider gaps than the older ones they're replacing, and more of those gaps. It makes absolutely no sense to me. Is this supposed to be a cost-saving measure? That's the only thing I can think of.

Didn't Robert Madison design those? Has he ever sat in them for 30 minutes on a day like today? :roll:

Yes he was, and he continues his mediocre work for RTA. This guy gets allot of high profile work in this town and in my opinion has failed to deliver. He was also the AOR for both Browns stadium and the Q. I mean the Q I can live with but as far as CBS, he was the one who decided that 70,000 bright orange seats would look great. I cringe everytime I see them. As far as the shelters, how about RTA hunts down a sponsor and hang some heaters in those things. They could only run when they are occupied. Just a thought.

Yes he was, and he continues his mediocre work for RTA. This guy gets allot of high profile work in this town and in my opinion has failed to deliver. He was also the AOR for both Browns stadium and the Q. I mean the Q I can live with but as far as CBS, he was the one who decided that 70,000 bright orange seats would look great. I cringe everytime I see them. As far as the shelters, how about RTA hunts down a sponsor and hang some heaters in those things. They could only run when they are occupied. Just a thought.

 

I don't mind the orange seats as much as I dislike the Q.  Its droopy top clashes with the clean lines of everything around it, particularly of the ballpark.  The Browns stadium is just mediocre and generic.  Come to think of it, I like the orange seats.

 

Wouldn't blocking the wind, even a little, be more effective than heating it?  The air inside those shelters is anything but static.

I don't know if anyone else has noted it yet, but the HealthLine brochure is available online. Nice job!

 

http://www.riderta.com/pdf/HealthLine.pdf

Yes he was, and he continues his mediocre work for RTA. This guy gets allot of high profile work in this town and in my opinion has failed to deliver. He was also the AOR for both Browns stadium and the Q. I mean the Q I can live with but as far as CBS, he was the one who decided that 70,000 bright orange seats would look great. I cringe everytime I see them. As far as the shelters, how about RTA hunts down a sponsor and hang some heaters in those things. They could only run when they are occupied. Just a thought.

 

I don't mind the orange seats as much as I dislike the Q.  Its droopy top clashes with the clean lines of everything around it, particularly of the ballpark.  The Browns stadium is just mediocre and generic.  Come to think of it, I like the orange seats.

 

Wouldn't blocking the wind, even a little, be more effective than heating it?  The air inside those shelters is anything but static.

 

I'm a bit of an architecture neophyte, but I see the Robert Madison is the AOR of record for Browns Stadium, but HOK Sport also claims credit...so I take it they collaborated on it?

 

As far as the Q, I never really had a problem with it until recently.  In fact, in general, I like the overall design.  But then when you go to places like Washington D.C. and see how the Verizon Center fits into the streetgrid, has street level retail (heck, even a fitness club) that has nothing to do with basketball/hockey, and is the CENTERPOINT – not just the IMPETUS – for a neighborhood's revitalization, do you realize how much more the Gund Arena/The Q could have been.

 

To get back on topic, I noticed the wind-tunnel effect of the shelters the time I ever set foot in one, and it's not like it was exactly frigid in October!  While their design has grown on me, and I have no problem with cutting-edge aesthetics, function can't always follow form in applications as important as these.

I'm wondering why bus shelters are designed this way, too. The new NYC bus shelters have even wider gaps than the older ones they're replacing, and more of those gaps. It makes absolutely no sense to me. Is this supposed to be a cost-saving measure? That's the only thing I can think of.

 

I used the corridor on 11/24 and experienced the wind whipping through the shelters too.  I huddled in a corner.  Another guy huddled between the ticket machine and the corner on the opposite end from me.  I'm not an architect,  but as narrow as the station platforms are (and I'm not complaining about the width, it's just a design reality), I don't know that very much could have been done.  Although, I wonder if the curved roof overhangs as designed funnel wind into the stations. 

 

I was more disappointed to see that ticket machines still weren't working, the LED signs in some of the stations weren't providing next arrival information, and that I saw two Health Line buses back to back headed westbound (only a few blocks apart at CSU).  (BTW, on my return trip I boarded the Red Line at UC and the LED sign there wasn't even on, and I've noticed sporadic operation of the LED sign at Brook Park RTS too). 

 

On the up side, the bus was packed.  Standing room only and not much of that.

 

 

ugh. the newish ny bus stops have the same problem. they have stoopid freakin on purpose gaps all around them. the wind whips right thru and so does the rain. the people that design these things certainly do not use them!

I'm in town this weekend to visit some family, so I got to take my first ride on the HealthLine yesterday so that I could check out the Art Museum. 

 

Ride #1: Public Square to Adelbert

-Had to wait only two minutes for a bus.

-Most lights changed for us as we approached.  Those that didn't only kept us waiting for a couple of seconds. 

-Despite everything I've heard about problems with East 6th, we did not even get stopped there. 

-Total trip time: 18 minutes. 

 

Ride #2:  Stokes to East 2nd

-The wind made it pretty uncomfortable.  It actually felt better outside the shelter than it did inside. 

-Had to wait six minutes for a bus (not bad). 

-The bus did not quite pull up to the station.  It fell short by about five feet and was pretty far from the curve.  This wasn't really a nuisance for me, but it would've been a problem for a handicapped person. 

-This time East 6th was a problem.  It changed and signaled for our bus to stop as we approached, and then made us wait for almost two minutes.  Many people on the bus were visibly agitated by the delay.  They were mostly headed to East 2nd, and I think that they realized it would have been faster to get out and walk. 

-Total trip time:  21 minutes. 

 

Overall, I was very impressed with the ride and how smoothly it worked (except for a few hiccups mentioned above).  Nice job, RTA! 

 

There is one thing that really bothered me.  I noticed more than a dozen people who did not pay at all.  Most people got on the bus and immediately showed a pass or paid for their ride, but I counted 14 people who got on near the back of the bus and did not pay.  Is there any way to stop this? 

Although it was nice to see Euclid ave. looking as busy as NYC on Friday night, notice how cars are just ignoring the dedicated "bus lane". Throughout its design I was always hoping that the bus lane could somehow distinguish itself a little more from the car lane. I seem to remember in the original design the bus lane was to have a different look or texture than the auto lane, maybe by using a different color concrete or some type of different surface to it. But I guess that may have been part a victim of the value engineering. I wonder if this will be a problem on busy nights in the immediate downtown area, especially around PlayhouseSquare.

 

Need more tickets..

 

There is one thing that really bothered me.  I noticed more than a dozen people who did not pay at all.  Most people got on the bus and immediately showed a pass or paid for their ride, but I counted 14 people who got on near the back of the bus and did not pay.  Is there any way to stop this? 

 

As I understand it, the line is already proof of purchase, so activated passes don't need to be shown to the driver.  This speeds up boarding even without the station fare machines being operational.  Those back door boarders are probably pass-holders.

^Thanks for explaining it to me.  I was just really bothered by the thought of so many people going through without paying. 

^Thanks for explaining it to me. I was just really bothered by the thought of so many people going through without paying.

 

Since the in-station ticket machines, or at least someof them, aren't working, I wouldn't be surprised if there are some people not paying.

So my question is this:  How will they actually track who has paid?  Once the ticket machines are activated, it will be easier for people to pay before they get on the bus, but it won't solve the problem.  As long as it is assumed that people who don't pay already have active passes, then paying will always be optional.  Many people won't pay for the trip if simply getting in line is considered proof that you have a pass. 

So my question is this:  How will they actually track who has paid?  Once the ticket machines are activated, it will be easier for people to pay before they get on the bus, but it won't solve the problem.  As long as it is assumed that people who don't pay already have active passes, then paying will always be optional.  Many people won't pay for the trip if simply getting in line is considered proof that you have a pass. 

 

there are undercover and uniformed police on the line.  its all indicated in the HL website.

MTS, that helps, but it still doesn't control the situation.  Police can't be on every ride.  There were no police on either of my rides.  I saw no one in uniform and either there was no undercover officer on board, or else he or she did not care that people weren't paying.  I'd be surprised if they could spare people to sit on even half of the rides, and that's not really their responsibility.  That means that the majority of the HealthLine is not moderated by the police, and I wouldn't want them to be wasting so much time checking tickets when they should be fighting crime throughout the city.  So the question remains:  How does RTA stop from having fourteen people not paying on every trip from Downtown to University Circle? 

^If people aren't paying now just wait until some tickets start to get visibly issued to offenders.  What is the fine??? Something like the cost of a month pass?  Once these tickets get issued offenders will be few and far between imo.  A $2 ride isn't worth a chance at a nearly $100 fine.

But how can you enforce people not paying the fine - when you get a traffic ticket and don't pay it, the state can refuse to renew your license.  What's RTA going to do, take away your transit privileges?

Besides, if there are a large amount of people not paying, then it will take a large amount of tickets to stop this from continuing.  Would RTA then have a huge force just sitting on every bus issuing tickets all day every day for as long as it takes for people to get the message?  Plus, people could always claim ignorance.  The ticket machines at the stations aren't working yet, and it's not like there's a huge flashing sign that says "pay here" when you get on the bus. 

I've had the transit police board a HealthLine vehicle I was on several times.  Out of all the people on all of those rides, only 2 people total had not paid.  However, I am not sure how they enforce payment once a ticket is issued, that is a good question.

Alright, does everyone here think that it is impossible to enforce a given rule without someone looking over everyone's shoulder continually?  There isn't always a police officer running speed on every mile of public roadway, but I don't blast 90 mph whenever there isn't one.  The threat of enforcement is the main thing that ensures compliance with a rule.

I am not sure how they enforce payment once a ticket is issued, that is a good question.

 

The ticket you are issued is to pay a "violation fare", which is equal to the cost of monthly pass. If you have not paid in x number of days, it becomes a court matter. There are numerous ways to pay, so that cannot be used as an excuse.

That means that the majority of the HealthLine is not moderated by the police, and I wouldn't want them to be wasting so much time checking tickets when they should be fighting crime throughout the city. 

 

The system is not fully up and running, so it is illogical to begin drawing conclusions. RTA hired extra police for fare enforcement, so the crime-fighter unit has not been impaired.

That means that the majority of the HealthLine is not moderated by the police, and I wouldn't want them to be wasting so much time checking tickets when they should be fighting crime throughout the city.

 

The system is not fully up and running, so it is illogical to begin drawing conclusions. RTA hired extra police for fare enforcement, so the crime-fighter unit has not been impaired.

 

what does that mean exactly, "not fully up and running."  To me, that means there are times or vehicles that are yet to run that are not running.  If all the vehicles are out and the schedule they're supposed to be on is the right schedule, they are up and running.  If they are not 100% making all their goals in hitting stops at the right time, that's not the same thing as not being fully up and running, that means the system has some kinks that are still being worked out.  As I understand it, the system has kinks that are still being worked out, but the system IS "fully up and running," isn't it?  Or is it?  Maybe I don't understand the difference as to service now vs. what's to come "in the future" - and when is that if there are further changes to be made?  I'd like to know when the system is supposed to be fully up and running.

Alright, does everyone here think that it is impossible to enforce a given rule without someone looking over everyone's shoulder continually? There isn't always a police officer running speed on every mile of public roadway, but I don't blast 90 mph whenever there isn't one. The threat of enforcement is the main thing that ensures compliance with a rule.

 

I agree.  The point of my post was that it seems to be working fairly well if out of dozens and dozens of people checked, I've only seen two which hadn't paid.  I would consider that a very good number since I'm sure some people who do not ride regularly still do not understand the new system (made more confusing by the fare machines at the stations not working yet).

The fare boxes at most stops are not up and running...