^Wow, missing from roadway?  That's no good. Do you recall if it's at the joints or more like pot holes?

 

I've noticed uneven settling at some joints in the car lanes.

^Wow, missing from roadway? That's no good. Do you recall if it's at the joints or more like pot holes?

 

I've noticed uneven settling at some joints in the car lanes.

 

Mostly in the joints.

There have been comments today on cleveland.com about a photo that appeared of a crosswalk at CSU, with some problems in the concrete front and center. (The concrete was not the focus of the photo). Of course, the posters on Cleveland.com had a field day.

 

FYI, I just spoke to an RTA engineer who returned from the site. The concrete is NOT spalling, it was hit by something. He showed me a piece of the concrete, and it is not flaking at all.

 

God bless cleveland.com, where rushing to judgement has become an art form.

 

There have been comments today on cleveland.com about a photo that appeared of a crosswalk at CSU, with some problems in the concrete front and center. (The concrete was not the focus of the photo). Of course, the posters on Cleveland.com had a field day.

 

FYI, I just spoke to an RTA engineer who returned from the site. The concrete is NOT spalling, it was hit by something. He showed me a piece of the concrete, and it is not flaking at all.

 

God bless cleveland.com, where rushing to judgement has become an art form.

 

 

Thank you for clearing that up. But what about all of the places where chunks of concrete are missing from the joints along the entire corrider?

Yes, thanks, Jerry for the info.  Happy to hear this wasn't spalling.  Hopefully someone can get out there soon to fix it.

I'm at that location virtually everyday and those marks are the result of traffic trying to get back into the car lane after weaving around some construction that was going on in the street.  They may want to wait until the rest of the new dorms at that location are finished before making any repairs.

^Ahh, got it.  Thanks.  Though I wonder how a granite station curb would have fared under these conditions.  I know it wasn't in RTA's budget, so not blaming RTA.

^ First brought to you by urbanohio

 

Concrete on Cleveland's Euclid Avenue is crumbling in section that recently opened for RTA's HealthLine

By Karen Farkas, The Plain Dealer

April 10, 2010, 3:59AM

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Four blocks along the Euclid Avenue HealthLine are showing signs of deterioration, just 18 months after the opening of the rebuilt corridor.

 

Crumbling pieces of concrete are visible in the joints and seams near the westbound bike lane between East 36th and East 32nd streets on Euclid. Chunks of concrete are missing, and some of the spots are eroded to the point where they were easily filled during Thursday's rain.

 

Officials at the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority, which built the $200 million bus rapid transit project, and the city of Cleveland, which is responsible for maintaining the road, say they were unaware of the roadway problems until contacted by The Plain Dealer on Thursday.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/04/euclid_avenue_concrete_is_crum.html

 

^ First brought to you by urbanohio

 

Concrete on Cleveland's Euclid Avenue is crumbling in section that recently opened for RTA's HealthLine

By Karen Farkas, The Plain Dealer

April 10, 2010, 3:59AM

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Four blocks along the Euclid Avenue HealthLine are showing signs of deterioration, just 18 months after the opening of the rebuilt corridor.

 

Crumbling pieces of concrete are visible in the joints and seams near the westbound bike lane between East 36th and East 32nd streets on Euclid. Chunks of concrete are missing, and some of the spots are eroded to the point where they were easily filled during Thursday's rain.

 

Officials at the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority, which built the $200 million bus rapid transit project, and the city of Cleveland, which is responsible for maintaining the road, say they were unaware of the roadway problems until contacted by The Plain Dealer on Thursday.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/04/euclid_avenue_concrete_is_crum.html

 

 

I dont want to look.  God only knows what the UNINFORMED idiots will say.

^The comments are just as moronic as you'd guess.  Bleh.

 

Good article by the PD.  I do wonder if we here helped make it happen :)

 

Officials at the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority, which built the $200 million bus rapid transit project, and the city of Cleveland, which is responsible for maintaining the road, say they were unaware of the roadway problems until contacted by The Plain Dealer on Thursday.

 

Not the most confidence-inspiring given that this is RTA's flagship project...I doubt this deterioration is only a week old.  But I know they're busy and it's probably not affecting operations at all.  Still, it would be nice of the drivers reported this sort of thing to the brass.

^The comments are just as moronic as you'd guess.  Bleh.

 

Good article by the PD.  I do wonder if we here helped make it happen :)

 

Officials at the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority, which built the $200 million bus rapid transit project, and the city of Cleveland, which is responsible for maintaining the road, say they were unaware of the roadway problems until contacted by The Plain Dealer on Thursday.

 

Not the most confidence-inspiring given that this is RTA's flagship project...I doubt this deterioration is only a week old.  But I know they're busy and it's probably not affecting operations at all.  Still, it would be nice of the drivers reported this sort of thing to the brass.

 

However, is that a factual statement by the PD?  we know they are not the most credible.

^The comments are just as moronic as you'd guess.  Bleh.

 

Good article by the PD.  I do wonder if we here helped make it happen :)

 

Officials at the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority, which built the $200 million bus rapid transit project, and the city of Cleveland, which is responsible for maintaining the road, say they were unaware of the roadway problems until contacted by The Plain Dealer on Thursday.

 

Not the most confidence-inspiring given that this is RTA's flagship project...I doubt this deterioration is only a week old.  But I know they're busy and it's probably not affecting operations at all.  Still, it would be nice of the drivers reported this sort of thing to the brass.

 

I know it's the City's responsibility to maintain its streets: that's what cities do.  But for RTA to claim ignorance on (your very correct) it's flagship project, and busiest service, is beyond absurd.  Although it's not a total bye for Cleveland, but everybody knows that Cleveland is beyond broke; all you need do is ride over your neighborhood street and feel the chuckholes to understand this.  But the Euclid corridor is a different matter, and the City's surely not going to act if the agency running literally hundreds of buses per day over the street isn't saying anything -- in this case, because RTA didn't even friggin' know!  It is RTA's job to run its buses and trains safely, and nobody can convince me that somebody at the transit agency, even its drivers, couldn't notice such obvious deteriorating/potentially unsafe roads merely by having someone go out an eyeball the road...

 

... It sure as hell seems like the words 'controversy' and 'RTA' are married in most news stories about local transit these days.

 

 

Well cardsnxtyr reported it here on Wednesday, April 7th, and Mr. Masek came on shortly after that worried about people rushing to judgement for possible crosswalk issues at Cleveland State.  Id like to think that he picked up on Cardsnxtyr's report, but as noted above, "that they were unaware of the roadway problems until contacted by The Plain Dealer on Thursday".  Wow, I dont know what to say....

 

Hmm, I guess I could repeat my clowns comment that I made in the RTA thread a while back when everyone at RTA was playing dumb, but then KJP will come on and cry that we shouldnt have such high expectations from RTA officials.  :|   

When I read the PD article this morning it seemed as if they got the scoop from here.  Anyway I am on Euclid a lot and haven't noticed the road falling apart.  Can anyone shed some light on how bad it really is?  Also, does anyone know if its normal for concrete to break apart around the seem due to the freeze thaw cycle?

^You probably haven't noticed because it's probably not that big a deal at this point.  I care because I don't want the street looking like crap prematurely and because the roadway is still under warranty.  But I think this thread might be getting a little carried away now.  I highly doubt this is a safety issue for RTA riders.  Though maybe for bikers...

I think the section still under warranty is not the section that is currently under discussion.  It sounds like only the section from the inner belt to E 9th is still under warranty till next year.   

There have been comments today on cleveland.com about a photo that appeared of a crosswalk at CSU, with some problems in the concrete front and center. (The concrete was not the focus of the photo). Of course, the posters on Cleveland.com had a field day.

 

FYI, I just spoke to an RTA engineer who returned from the site. The concrete is NOT spalling, it was hit by something. He showed me a piece of the concrete, and it is not flaking at all.

 

God bless cleveland.com, where rushing to judgement has become an art form.

 

 

Thank you for clearing that up. But what about all of the places where chunks of concrete are missing from the joints along the entire corrider?

 

The chunks are lying on the side of the road. Clearly when you ride your bicycle around in the bike lanes you have to constantly swerve and weave around the holes and rocks to be safe. But from what I heard, there was a chemical place in the cement that is making it fall apart. I don't know how much of that is true but the fact that the roads are as bad as they are for being so new makes me avoid riding in the bike lanes down Euclid :(

Here's an update on the concrete issues between E32nd and E36th.  It's not very smile-inducing, but not sure if there will be a longer term fix down the line...

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/04/euclid_avenues_crumbling_concr.html

 

Black asphalt has been placed in joints and seams near the westbound bike lane between East 36th and East 32nd streets on Euclid. It was also used to fill a few spots where chunks of concrete were missing along the bike lane and by some manhole covers.

 

If the road is repaired with concrete, the pavement would have to be cut out and the new poured concrete would have to cure for at least seven days before the road could open to traffic.

 

Here's an update on the concrete issues between E32nd and E36th.  It's not very smile-inducing, but not sure if there will be a longer term fix down the line...

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/04/euclid_avenues_crumbling_concr.html

 

Black asphalt has been placed in joints and seams near the westbound bike lane between East 36th and East 32nd streets on Euclid. It was also used to fill a few spots where chunks of concrete were missing along the bike lane and by some manhole covers.

 

If the road is repaired with concrete, the pavement would have to be cut out and the new poured concrete would have to cure for at least seven days before the road could open to traffic.

 

 

But why have them fill it when it's just going to come out again? We need a more permanent fix, not something that may last until next summer. I am over all the construction and repairs that they have to keep making to the Euclid Corridor.... :(

sounds to me like it is temporary until they figure out the logistics...

 

"Crumbling concrete on the Euclid Avenue HealthLine has been patched temporarily with asphalt until the city and RTA decide on a permanent repair."

I'm sorry if this has been addressed, but is this all covered under warranty, including a more permanent fix? 

Not this section.

 

If the road is repaired with concrete, the pavement would have to be cut out and the new poured concrete would have to cure for at least seven days before the road could open to traffic.[/i]

 

 

Well that is a false statement.  I have been [part of concrete pours that finished up at 2 AM, and we had traffic openned up at noon the next day.  It's called FS Concrete which simply stands for fast set concrete.  It contains about 900 lbs of cement per yard and has the ability to set up within 45 minutes.  70% of it's full stregnth is achieved within 8 hours, which makes it perfect to drive on.  Very much so a false statement. 

Earlier I had mentioned that there was construction going on at E. 24th and Euclid.  Pipes were brought from the northside to the south to serve the new dorms.  Concrete was removed completely.  When they did finish they cut clean lines, put down a bit of rebar, and poured the slab.  I'm pretty sure they were driving on it within 24 hours.

Earlier I had mentioned that there was construction going on at E. 24th and Euclid. Pipes were brought from the northside to the south to serve the new dorms. Concrete was removed completely. When they did finish they cut clean lines, put down a bit of rebar, and poured the slab. I'm pretty sure they were driving on it within 24 hours.

 

True! I live right down the street from the construction site and although it is a bit bumpy, the road was definitely ready in a very short amount of time. It would just be nice to see them making a better effort to patch up these holes. I feel as if they are never going to come up with a "permanent fix" with the way things are going.

Wow, I dont know what to say....

 

Hmm, I guess I could repeat my clowns comment that I made in the RTA thread a while back when everyone at RTA was playing dumb, but then KJP will come on and cry that we shouldnt have such high expectations from RTA officials. :|

 

I know what to say:  be nice or be absent.

This is absolutely depressing.

 

 

"The brand-new concrete pavement on Cleveland's reborn Euclid Avenue is disintegrating after only a year. If this were your driveway, you'd sue, right? Was it fraud, or just incompetence?"

 

 

This is absolutely depressing.

 

 

"The brand-new concrete pavement on Cleveland's reborn Euclid Avenue is disintegrating after only a year. If this were your driveway, you'd sue, right? Was it fraud, or just incompetence?"

 

 

 

why "depressing"?  I'm not an RTA apologist.  The video's creator on tells one side of the story.  Some people will only believe what they see.

 

Doesn't mention that RTA knows about this or what their remedies are.

 

I don't think this month old video is a big deal.

Oh man.  That contractor did some serious crap work there.  Ridiculous.

 

Is it just me or is the striping all along Euclid seriously faded too?  Maybe it's been patched up since I last saw it 6 months ago, but looked pretty faded/flaked in that video too.

that's terrible , concrete should only look like that after at least 10-20 years....

Back when I wanted to be an environmental engineer (a LONG time ago) I did a summer doing concrete testing.  There were 3 main criteria I would test for.

    1. The time since it was batched.  You would have a set number of minutes (60, 90, 120) based on the contract to get the concrete from where the truck was loaded up until the time it was poured

    2. A "slump" test.  Kind of like the name, you would fill a cylinder of concrete from the truck then lift the cylinder off, and measure how far the concrete slumped down. 

    3. An "air" test, it measured how much air was in the mix.  Imagine a pressure cooker type pot.  You would measure how much air you could insert into the sealed pot.

 

Along with these tests, samples were kept and should have been broken at intervals like, 90, 180 and 360 days (or whatever is spelled out in the contract)

 

The point of all of this, when I was doing it the contractor used to beg me to approve concrete that was either too late, didn't slump right, or didn't pass the air.  I would have bosses who were "friends" with the contractor who would try to pressure me into signing off on stuff.  If I wanted a career in the field I probably would have considered doing it, but I hated that job, so I stuck to the letter of the law.

 

If there was a problem with the concrete on this project I would look to the relationship between the contractor and the testing company. 

http://www.city.cleveland.oh.us/CityofCleveland/Home/PressRelease/prdetail?id=7183

 

Euclid Avenue Will be Closed to Eastbound Vehicular Traffic Thursday, May 27 - Friday May 28, 2010

 

Wednesday, May 26, 2010 On Thursday May 27, 2010, at 7:00 pm, Euclid Avenue will be closed to vehicular traffic eastbound between East 18th Street and East 21st Street for repairs. That stretch of Euclid Avenue is scheduled to re-open at 4:00 pm on Friday May 28, 2010.

 

# # #

UPDATE!

 

http://www.city.cleveland.oh.us/CityofCleveland/Home/PressRelease/prdetail?id=7183

 

Euclid Avenue Will be Closed to Eastbound Vehicular Traffic Thursday, May 27 – Sunday , May 30, 2010

 

Thursday, May 27, 2010 Tonight, Thursday May 27, 2010 at 7:00 pm, Euclid Avenue will be closed to vehicular traffic eastbound between East 18th Street and East 21st Street for restoration work to the street and crosswalk following repairs earlier this year to a leaking water main. That stretch of Euclid Avenue is scheduled to re-open at noon on Sunday May 30, 2010.

 

# # #

It looks like they are being shamed into action...

 

Cleveland will remove and replace dead trees along Euclid Avenue

By Karen Farkas, The Plain Dealer

June 01, 2010, 10:00AM

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The sound of chain saws will echo down Euclid Avenue this week as Cleveland removes 64 dead trees along the road between Public Square and University Circle.

 

No one knows why the trees succumbed, said Michael Cox, director of the city's Department of Parks and Recreation. They were among 1,500 planted as part of the $200 million 7.1-mile Euclid Corridor, which opened in October 2008.

 

"It is a very harsh environment," he said, citing road and sidewalk salt, vehicle exhaust and the tall buildings that block sun and funnel wind and cold.

 

 

more at: http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/06/cleveland_will_remove_and_repl.html

Rock on, RTA!  Many of these trees looked sickly at the time they were planted.  They were all piled up by Pierre's for a good while prior to installation.  I doubt that helped.

 

The Cleveland Clinic has a similar problem with the trees they planted along their reflecting pool.  Same supplier?

Can we start getting commission on some of these articles, lol?

When these were selected and planted, the potential harsh conditions should have been a foreseen factor. Nowhere did I see mention of hiring an urban forester to work with this project, such as Alan Seiwert. (If he is even still working out of M.Field) Landscaping designers do not typically go in depth with factoring in all conditions to determine an appropriate species.

 

The Clinic, our wonderful "Gods of Health" use toxic lawn chemicals (carcinogens) on that lawn...the same stuff banned in many and a growing number of places for mere cosmetic uses.....the same stuff that helps turn Lake Erie green, contributes to big fish kills.... and makes it stink at certain times of the year.  Good on ya, folks...real smart way to set examples for better health and sustainability!

 

Well, I hope the RTA will get the tree thing right this time...If they're listening..please consult a state forester, or private one...but just someone who knows more about trees than just mostly selling them.

 

327...  you may be right in that they were setting there far too long.

Well it didnt even sound like the Landscaper that planted them was given the opportunity to inspect to see what the issues were.  Just this clown from the city that made his own uneducated assessment, with the answer being "replace with honey-locusts", which makes me cringe since that is pretty much all you see downtown....  But maybe there are'nt many options for some of these spots.     

I think there are options, but they need to be carefully explored, hence why I suggested consulting with an urban forester from the state, local or private.... You cannot solely rely on landscape people for this kind of information. There can be a big difference in their respected professions and they need to work together.

Well yeah thats what Im saying too, but it is best to look at the trees before they are removed for clues of what the problems may have been, not just resorting to planting honey locusts because thats what you do everywhere else. 

...but it is best to look at the trees before they are removed...

Too late, they've already been chain-sawing away.

Well yeah thats what Im saying too, but it is best to look at the trees before they are removed for clues of what the problems may have been, not just resorting to planting honey locusts because thats what you do everywhere else. 

 

I agree. Honey Locusts are the "chain restaurant" of trees...they're everywhere. Actually, I like using native species when possible and if suitable for the environment along a street, but sometimes this is not always an option because of the conditions...and we then have to resort to 'weed trees' or those that will grow in just about any environment.

 

Personally, I like mixing species along a street. This way, if one species has a disease, Asian invasive bug.... or sickness unique to one specific species, we will have only that tree affected instead of wiping out the entire rows along the street. Diversity breeds stability, instead of monoculture.

 

Again, these are all the things the forester does in his/her trade. I am even sure the local Botanical Gardens have people who can assist with this. I wonder if they were consulted. I am amazed sometimes how various Gov't/public agencies fail to make use of the resources right under their noses. 

 

One thing young and newly planted trees need a lot is water and initial pruning care. At least when I was out and about, I never witnessed this...But their were supposed to be irrigation systems under them. Were they operating at the right times of the day or enough? Don't know.

Personally, I like mixing species along a street. This way, if one species has a disease, Asian invasive bug.... or sickness unique to one specific species, we will have only that tree affected instead of wiping out the entire rows along the street. Diversity breeds stability, instead of monoculture.

 

 

Good point.

Personally, I like mixing species along a street. This way, if one species has a disease, Asian invasive bug.... or sickness unique to one specific species, we will have only that tree affected instead of wiping out the entire rows along the street. Diversity breeds stability, instead of monoculture.

 

 

Good point.

 

Agreed!

I'd still like to see some evergreens, which would look nice for more than half the year.

The problem with evergreens is the salt spray in winter; it burns the needles and pretty much kills the tree.

 

Personally, I like mixing species along a street. This way, if one species has a disease, Asian invasive bug.... or sickness unique to one specific species, we will have only that tree affected instead of wiping out the entire rows along the street. Diversity breeds stability, instead of monoculture.

 

That actually is what I thought they did successfully along Euclid, which gave me hope that somebody knew what they were doing with the plantings.  (There were varieties grouped together for this reason)

Now planted all mixed up and not in some kind of order is not a good idea at all.

 

Evergreens will not grow in these city situations. 

 

I'd still like to see some evergreens, which would look nice for more than half the year.

 

The Clinic did plant some evergreens along its part of the corridor, but can't say I'm a big fan of what they did:  http://www.bing.com/maps/explore/?org=aj#/xjtyvjkjy1mpc4hj

 

Overall, the EC did plant a wide variety of trees- it's hardly a monoculture- I think there are ginkos, elms, maples and probably some honey locusts- probably others too.  I understand the honey locust fatigue people feel, but they really do well on our streets- the ones in the WHD are awesome.  The ginkos by Gateway have done very well too.

 

I spoke with the landscape architects for the corridor last fall about the street trees, and I believe they said that the city has an urban forester on staff (or on retainer) who headed the tree selections.  I wouldn't be surprised if the city didn't really have the expertise they should have, but we can't really conclude that just from the PD article.  The harsh conditions were certainly understood by everyone.  I may dig around to see if I can learn more.

It looks like those are white pine which should burn up from salt that close to the road.  Ill take a look next time in town.  Yeah, they can be grouped away from the raod in green area like the Clinic has so much of, but would be pointless to put downtown on the street (in a canyon).

 

Here is something from Channel 3....  They talk to an arborist that I guess helped with this project.. "Arborist Lauren Lanphear"

 

http://www.wkyc.com/news/local/news_article.aspx?storyid=137182&catid=3

One thing we're not mentioning is the idea of changing the materials they're using on the road to something more benign. There is nothing good about salt products on the road, we know this...the damage they do to concrete and brick work, metal on bridges/overpasses, vehicles, aquatic environments, and plants along streets like trees. I looked into this a long time ago and forget the products, but there are more sensitive products. One thing I also witness is sat trucks going waaaaayyy overboard on the application of this stuff. I have even seen them literally stand still and dump small piles of this on the street. That is unacceptable, careless application... and simply not necessary.