No, the biggest problem is the long gap between buses that go east from the Univ. Rapid Station.  The 35-minute gap in 32's leaving the station during rush hour! is outragious - nothing between 5:21 p.m. and 5:56 p.m. :x

Has anyone heard or know anything about the ugly rumor that, starting in December of this year, the HealthLine order will change from Univ. Rapid/Sokes/Univ. Rapid/Stokes to Stokes/Stokes/Univ. Rapid/Stokes... ????

It had better not happen! :x

 

False rumor.

Jerry, Thanks for the clarification!

The wait seems to be getting longer recently. Around 3:30 there was a 20 minute wait going westbound.

Thanks, Jerry!  There are enough problems for some of us as is. And the HealthLine BRTs are a long way from running as they're supposed to - every five minutes and staggered every other type.

NPR's marketplace highlighted the Healthline

 

http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2010/11/09/pm-rapid-bus-transit-a-cheaper-alternative-to-rail/

 

And BRT also buys less capacity than rail so the operating costs per passenger-mile for rail are often less. BRT also lacks the carbon-free potential of rail (see Calgary using electricity from wind to power its LRT).

Could the Healthline be converted to rail somewhat easily if ever need be?

"Easily"?  No way...

Depends how loosely you define "converted".  They'd probably reuse all the stuff at the stops, but that's about it.

Depends how loosely you define "converted". They'd probably reuse all the stuff at the stops, but that's about it.

 

Or define "easily". Remember that the BRT was going to have electrically powered buses, pulling power from overhead wires like a Rapid train. But that got "value-engineered" out to save money. So was putting rails in the pavement so that LRT could be added later at minimal additional cost.

A conversion wouldn't be easy, but if the BRT lanes are wide enough for rail ROW, it would certainly be a nice head start.

By easily I meant would the bus lanes be wide enough for rail and would the current alignment of the platforms work with rail? I know the whole process wouldn't be "easy" but I was wondering if it could be converted the way it currently is.

It should just be as easy as this

 

http://www.fisher-price.com/us/products/demo/vendordemo.asp?sku=P3806&vendor=TRU

I'm sorry Ohio boys and girls, but funding for completion of Mickey's Magic Choo-Choo has been canceled.  Instead, I suggest you continue playing with your Hotwheels.

Depends how loosely you define "converted". They'd probably reuse all the stuff at the stops, but that's about it.

 

Or define "easily". Remember that the BRT was going to have electrically powered buses, pulling power from overhead wires like a Rapid train. But that got "value-engineered" out to save money. So was putting rails in the pavement so that LRT could be added later at minimal additional cost.

 

"Value engineering" does save money in the details, but this was an entirely new concept, not just a detail. After a small RTA contingent toured several modern systems in Europe, they came back and dropped all the overhead wires, which would have really cluttered up Euclid Avenue visually, and saved some $33 million in the process. I am not entering the rail debate, just providing some info.

Im an starting to think that they never check for passes

I really wish they would would run more buses (or rapid transit vehicles if you prefer) during rush hour on the Healthline.  I take it every day and the main thing I hate is that the bus is already packed by the time it gets to University Circle and I have to stand.  It is the same on the way home.  Standing on a train is one thing but the Healthline is still essentially a bus and is jerkier and bumpier and standing on a bus is pretty uncomfortable.  Older folks or handicapped people get on and they can't even get a seat because most of the people sitting are already old or handicapped and don't want to get up.  I counted almost thirty people standing the other day on a bus!  I would think that it would be a huge safety hazard in the case of an accident and people standing would be much more prone to injury.  Ok I am done with my rant for the day.  I am glad the Healthline is being used and I want to continue using it but the last thing I usually want to do after waiting in the cold for 10 minutes is to hold on for dear life on a 20 minute bus ride.

 

There has been a few times that i've waited for the bus and when it came it was too full to get on. And trust me i've been on that bus in really tightly packed situations so im not afraid to jam in but there was absolutely no space left to stand. And its always hard to find a seat

^Sorry I don't see this as much of an issue.  Standing during rush hour is standard on most transit systems in the nation (buses and rail).  You can barely squeeze on many cars in DC during rush hour (many times during non rush hour).  Cost has to be considered which I am sure RTA is doing.

^Sorry I don't see this as much of an issue.  Standing during rush hour is standard on most transit systems in the nation (buses and rail).  You can barely squeeze on many cars in DC during rush hour (many times during non rush hour).  Cost has to be considered which I am sure RTA is doing.

 

I dont think that was aimed at me right? And yeah standing on the bus in no problem, its not that hard once you get used to it. It just sucks when there is no space to even stand

I really wish they would would run more buses (or rapid transit vehicles if you prefer) during rush hour on the Healthline.  I take it every day and the main thing I hate is that the bus is already packed by the time it gets to University Circle and I have to stand.  It is the same on the way home.  Standing on a train is one thing but the Healthline is still essentially a bus and is jerkier and bumpier and standing on a bus is pretty uncomfortable.  Older folks or handicapped people get on and they can't even get a seat because most of the people sitting are already old or handicapped and don't want to get up.  I counted almost thirty people standing the other day on a bus!  I would think that it would be a huge safety hazard in the case of an accident and people standing would be much more prone to injury.  Ok I am done with my rant for the day.  I am glad the Healthline is being used and I want to continue using it but the last thing I usually want to do after waiting in the cold for 10 minutes is to hold on for dear life on a 20 minute bus ride.

 

 

I believe this is a non issue.  If the bus was empty, what would you say?

I think it's an issue. If you can't get on a bus because it's too full, then that's a problem. It's a good problem, no doubt (ie: it's better than the opposite extreme). But it's still an extreme, it's a problem and it needs to be addressed.

I think it's an issue. If you can't get on a bus because it's too full, then that's a problem. It's a good problem, no doubt (ie: it's better than the opposite extreme). But it's still an extreme, it's a problem and it needs to be addressed.

 

What do you think the problem is?  Not enough frequencies to meet demand?

 

What do you think the problem is? Not enough frequencies to meet demand?

 

That, or even longer buses!

 

What do you think the problem is?  Not enough frequencies to meet demand?

 

That, or even longer buses!

 

LOL

I think it's an issue. If you can't get on a bus because it's too full, then that's a problem. It's a good problem, no doubt (ie: it's better than the opposite extreme). But it's still an extreme, it's a problem and it needs to be addressed.

 

What do you think the problem is? Not enough frequencies to meet demand?

 

I believe so, every 10 to 12 minutes would be nice. 20 minutes waits can get annoying, and then when a full bus comes by its even worse

Oh and sometimes Im trying to head west and in the time im waiting to go west, I see 3 busses going east. That is also a problem.

Really I don't actually have that big of a problem with standing myself, the problem is more the overcrowding mixed with the standing.  I just think 30 people standing on a bus is a lot.  There are many times when older folks with canes get on and can't get a seat.  There have been multiple times where there were two people with personal mobility scooters taking up the whole front section of the bus which leads to severe overcrowding in the rest of the bus.  I guess my main complaint from all of this is just that it can be quite an unpleasant experience during rush hour and in no way is comparable to even a crowded train. 

The BRT has been successful but with all the money they saved can't they at least get a couple more buses out during rush hour.  Also, although the buses are supposed to come every 5 minutes, when catching it in university circle it comes only every 10 minutes because there is also the University service and because the actual time varies it may not come for 15 minutes at times.  I know University users would not want to hear this but I think the stokes service is used more and maybe there should be some rethinking of the schedule.  The University has only hit 1 or 2 stations when it leaves University circle whereas the Stokes has already hit 10 or 12.  I know that other buses drop people off at university but the Mayfield bus drops a lot of people on the Stokes line.  I do whatever I can not to catch a bus that the Mayfield people are getting on.  Overall I like the system and think that it met the cities needs well but these overcrowding issues along with the light priority issues still need to be worked out.

 

 

 

What do you think the problem is? Not enough frequencies to meet demand?

 

That, or even longer buses!

Maybe we should attach 3 or 4 little buses together instead of the 2 we've got duct taped to each other. Of course if we did that, it'd be too hard to make turns and not wander outside the lane when changing lanes. So to remedy that we could just place some metal strips in the ground that the wheels of the bus could hold onto to keep it going where it's supposed to. And while we're at it we could just make the wheels out of steel and have them run along the top of those little metal strips. That would make it more efficient. :-)

 

What do you think the problem is? Not enough frequencies to meet demand?

 

That, or even longer buses!

Maybe we should attach 3 or 4 little buses together instead of the 2 we've got duct taped to each other. Of course if we did that, it'd be too hard to make turns and not wander outside the lane when changing lanes. So to remedy that we could just place some metal strips in the ground that the wheels of the bus could hold onto to keep it going where it's supposed to. And while we're at it we could just make the wheels out of steel and have them run along the top of those little metal strips. That would make it more efficient. :-)

 

That is an ingenious idea! :lol:

Not only is standing for many blocks physically difficult for some passengers, it is also a waste of time when one can take advantage of the time to looks at books, magazines, or newspapers. This is very important to me.

I also follow various construction projects along the route - difficult to see when standing. Regarding rush hours, we need more 32 buses at the Univ. Rapid station at these times. a 35-minute gap from 5:21 pm to 5:56 pm is outragious!

We definitely need more busses running at several times of the day. I feel like 3:00 needs more busses too. I also feel like the busses get bunched up a lot. It was aggravating to see 4 busses travel east in the time I was waiting for a bus traveling West.

^ I currently work on Euclid and would say I see at least 2 busses right behind each other on a daily basis.  I am not sure who is responsible for the timing of the lights on Euclid (I would imagine it would be the City Traffic engineer, but would hope RTA plays a big part) but I am not surprised it is poorly managed.  Traffic engineering around the city is generally miserable...I wonder if it's even managed at all.

I thought this line was supposed to have traffic signal preemption for the "rapid transit vehicles".  Simple "timing" of signals, if that is being attempted, seems like it's not good enough when it comes to a system with as many stops as this BRT.  The lights can only be timed to a certain pattern and if something happens to upset that pattern, like more or fewer passengers boarding or deboarding a "rapid transit vehicle" at a particular stop, will throw things off for the rest of the route, won't it?

Do we have the ability for real time GPS tracking of the BRT vehicles via the web? 

Do we have the ability for real time GPS tracking of the BRT vehicles via the web?

 

That would be awesome

^ so would user friendly fare boxes to buy tickets.  Considering how easy I think that should be, GPS tracking is probably nuclear physics to RTA.

^ so would user friendly fare boxes to buy tickets. Considering how easy I think that should be, GPS tracking is probably nuclear physics to RTA.

 

Multiple transit authorities use GPS tracking and make it available online.  This shouldn't be a hard thing to do and should be a priority for RTA, IMO. 

 

Also, I feel like we were sold a bag of lies as far as the HealthLine signal preemption goes.  There seems to have been zero effort to ever use preemptive signaling.  They seem to have attempted to time the lights to make the trip as fast as possible, but this has been a total disaster.

^ so would user friendly fare boxes to buy tickets. Considering how easy I think that should be, GPS tracking is probably nuclear physics to RTA.

 

Multiple transit authorities use GPS tracking and make it available online. This shouldn't be a hard thing to do and should be a priority for RTA, IMO.

 

Also, I feel like we were sold a bag of lies as far as the HealthLine signal preemption goes. There seems to have been zero effort to ever use preemptive signaling. They seem to have attempted to time the lights to make the trip as fast as possible, but this has been a total disaster.

 

I sometimes notice that the busses have a "green" light when they are in the station, and then when they are done boarding they have a "red" light and have to sit through the whole rotation. Is there anyway that the bus could create a "yellow" light while in the station and then a "green light when they are ready to go. This would speed up the trip immensely. Or would that have to big of an affect on other traffic?

^ so would user friendly fare boxes to buy tickets.  Considering how easy I think that should be, GPS tracking is probably nuclear physics to RTA.

Multiple transit authorities use GPS tracking and make it available online.  This shouldn't be a hard thing to do and should be a priority for RTA, IMO. 

 

hold your breath.  i've been told that this is in fact coming to RTA in the near future, perhaps as early as the spring, but more likely summer 2011.  basically, RTA needs to purchase a module for their existing transit management system that allows for a web interface.  They are exploring (have decided?) on using a technology that their current vendor supports and is being used by PACE in chicago:

http://gis.pacebus.com/webwatch/default.aspx

 

this will provide mobile access and maps with real time vehicle locations.

 

Also, I feel like we were sold a bag of lies as far as the HealthLine signal preemption goes.  There seems to have been zero effort to ever use preemptive signaling.  They seem to have attempted to time the lights to make the trip as fast as possible, but this has been a total disaster.

More pressure needs to be put on the city that the existing timing is not adequate.  As it stands, it seems that the city is satisfied with how it is working and things are "good enough."

Also, I feel like we were sold a bag of lies as far as the HealthLine signal preemption goes. There seems to have been zero effort to ever use preemptive signaling. They seem to have attempted to time the lights to make the trip as fast as possible, but this has been a total disaster.

More pressure needs to be put on the city that the existing timing is not adequate. As it stands, it seems that the city is satisfied with how it is working and things are "good enough."

 

I agree and until that attitude changes among city leaders, there is a ceiling to how much Cleveland can develop.  And when you look at the threads talking about businesses relocating to the suburbs, I point tot his as the key reasn why.  This wouldn't be "good enough" in the suburbs that are presently growing.

the technology is there.  it simply isn't being used.  and yes, that sits at the feet of the city traffic engineer.

^ so would user friendly fare boxes to buy tickets. Considering how easy I think that should be, GPS tracking is probably nuclear physics to RTA.

 

Multiple transit authorities use GPS tracking and make it available online. This shouldn't be a hard thing to do and should be a priority for RTA, IMO.

 

Also, I feel like we were sold a bag of lies as far as the HealthLine signal preemption goes. There seems to have been zero effort to ever use preemptive signaling. They seem to have attempted to time the lights to make the trip as fast as possible, but this has been a total disaster.

 

I sometimes notice that the buses have a "green" light when they are in the station, and then when they are done boarding they have a "red" light and have to sit through the whole rotation. Is there anyway that the bus could create a "yellow" light while in the station and then a "green light when they are ready to go. This would speed up the trip immensely. Or would that have to big of an affect on other traffic?

 

I don't think the signal preemption would have much of an effect on other traffic because if you use it like it's supposed to be used it creates a relatively short "green light" for BRT.  I thought that RFID technology was going to be installed to allow the BRT's to signal the light to turn "green" for the bus, but I see no evidence of this.  If it is already installed it needs to be utilized.  If it's not installed then they should be able to use GPS technology to achieve the same goal.  You would just need to integrate the GPS software and it's set "trigger points" to the traffic management system and force a light change.  Setting those trigger points is tricky for smooth operation though as there's usually a 10-20 second delay from the "trigger" to actual light change due to pedestrian crossing requirements.  It also makes it harder due to the  proximity of most of the stations to intersections.  These circumstances certainly don't seem insurmountable though.

<<I sometimes notice that the busses have a "green" light when they are in the station, and then when they are done boarding they have a "red" light and have to sit through the whole rotation.>>

 

What intersections do you see this at? I think that you may see this at the downtown intersections, where one station serves both directions, but farther out, such as East 30th on, there are two stations in each set, one eastbound and one westbound, that are built on the "far side" of the intersection. This means that the vehicle has already gone through the intersection before stopping at a station to pick up riders.

I see this happen the most at the E. 19th St. station, personally.

If this projects list I compiled is any indication, the standing-room only conditions on the HealthLine are only going to get worse without more frequencies. And these are just projects fronting Euclid, and don't include those within walking distance of HealthLine stations....

 

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,7408.msg530865.html#msg530865

 

From downtown to the East Cleveland line, here is what I'm aware of and/or have questions about that is proposed, planned, under construction/renovation or built/renovated in the last 12 months:

 

> Anything in the East 4th area?

 

> Schofield Building, SW Corner East 9th, Rehab into 140-room Kimpton Hotel hotel, 24 apartments, and ground-floor restaurant; $40 million, UNDERWAY.

 

> Breuer Tower/Cleveland Trust Rotunda, SE corner East 9th, Rehab into hundreds of residential units and/or hotel units. SUSPENDED.

 

> Truman Building, 1030 Euclid, Rehab into 20 apartments; $12 million (includes neighboring Security Federal Building), UNDERWAY.

 

> Security Federal, 1110 Euclid, Rehab into offices; cost is part of neighboring Truman Building rehab, UNDERWAY.

 

> John Hartness Brown Buildings, 1001-1101 Euclid Ave., Rehab three adjoining buildings into hotel; $55 million, PLANNED.

 

> Cleveland Athletic Club, 1118-1148 Euclid, Rehab into athletic facilities, apartments, etc.; $43 million, PROPOSED.

 

> Cowell & Hubbard, 1309 Euclid, Rehab into offices and educational facilities, with Kent State University's Cleveland Urban Design Collaborative the first tenant; unknown investment, UNDERWAY.

 

> Woolworth Building, 1317 Euclid, Rehab into offices and ground-floor restaurant; $4 million, UNDERWAY.

 

> Allen Theater, 1519 Euclid, Overhaul from a 2,500-seat theater to a three-venue, 1,000-seat complex for the Cleveland Play House; $30 million, UNDERWAY.

 

> Union Building, 1836 Euclid, Rehab into 71,000 square feet of offices, 6,000 square feet of retail and indoor parking in two connected buildings; PARTIALLY FUNDED.

 

> College Town Plaza, 1900 Euclid, demolition of structure and creation of pedestrian promenade through to Prospect Ave; UNDERWAY.

 

> CSU Student Center, 2100-2200 Euclid, New construction; $44 million, COMPLETED IN 2010.

 

> Euclid Commons, 2300-2600 Euclid, five-building CSU dorms and parking garage for 380 students; $65 million, UNDERWAY.

 

> CSU College of Education and Human Services, 2500 Euclid, New construction; $36 million, COMPLETED IN 2010.

 

> Ohio Department of Mental Health Hospital, 5500-6300 Euclid, New construction of 300-bed, 500-employee hospital; $84 million, PLANNED FOR OPENING IN 2014.

 

> Pierre's Ice Cream, 6200 Euclid, Expansion of plant; $8 million, UNDERWAY.

 

> Midtown Tech Park, 6900 Euclid, New construction of 128,000 square foot office building; $28 million, UNDERWAY.

 

> Euclid Corridor Senior Housing, 7300-7400 Euclid, New construction of 4-story, 48-unit senior housing/demolition of two vacant apartment towers; $??, UNDERWAY.

 

> Emerald Alliance V, 7515 Euclid, New construction of 4-story, 70-unit subsidized housing on vacant land on north side of street; $11 million, UNDERWAY.

 

> I thought there was something else planned in this gap?

 

> University Hospitals Center for Emergency Medicine, 11100 Euclid, Expansion, renovation and redesign to increase visibility from Euclid; $45 million, UNDERWAY.

 

> University Hospitals Cancer Center, 11200 Euclid, New construction of 375,000 square foot building; $250 million, COMPLETED IN 2010.

 

> Cleveland Museum of Contemporary Art, NE corner of Mayfield, New construction of its first permanent home; $27 million, UNDERWAY.

 

> Uptown, 11300-11600 Euclid, New construction of 434 housing units, 150,000-227,000 sf retail, 90,000 sf hotel and 58,000 sf office space; $300 million, UNDERWAY.

 

> Cleveland Institute of Art, 11600 Euclid, Expansion; $50 million, UNDERWAY???

 

> Circle 118 townhomes, NE corner of East 118th, New construction of 17 luxury townhomes; $8 million, UNDERWAY.

 

> 27 Coltman townhouses, SW corner of Coltman Ave., New construction of 27 luxury townhouses; $10 million, UNDERWAY.

 

 

UPDATED DECEMBER 13, 2010

where's the PD article showing all that development surrounding the healthline? :)

where's the PD article showing all that development surrounding the healthline? :)

Here it is.