You can hate big government or not.  I don't much care either way.  It isn't sustainable, and therefore it won't last.  But I'd prefer if our cities, and the transit that helps to sustain them, did.  And they can.  On balance big government harms transit MUCH more than it helps.  When Big Government goes the way of the former USSR, and it will, think of that not as a disaster, but a great opportunity, for transit, and for our region in general.  It will be, and you will either see that, eventually, or get left behind by those who do.

 

The way I see both political parties favoring big government, well, it doesn't make me optimistic at all. You may be 100 percent right that transit will improve. It's just sad to think that we'll need a near collapse to get any sort of radical change for the better.

And with that....

I like the new stations more than the silver ones, they seem like they will look more visually pleasing for a longer period of time due to having brick instead of metal, they also seem more well built due to the brick.

 

Sure do wish the Healthline was getting more articulated buses due to the current stock being on its last legs? Also will these run 24hrs down Clifton? It seems like RTA doesn't allow its articulated fleet to run all day on the west side.

 

Why would you think the HL vehicles are anywhere near the end of their life useful cycle??  That statement/question has me perplexed.

 

I think believe the Clifton stations are appropriate for the surrounding architecture.  The non historic Shaker Rapid stations shelters should be rebuilt using this design.

Just my self-analysis, the buses continuously break down and sometimes have to have regular 2200-2800 series buses replace them which to me indicates that they are having problems keeping the HL buses on the road due to maintenance issues. The HL buses probably will age faster due to them being used 24/7 so heavy mileage use is beginning to catch up to it in my opinion.  Also due to heavy usage the interiors are starting to show age, ramps are being duct taped, the LED indicators don't work half the time as well. Mechanically the buses sound loud an atrocious, especially given the type of route it represents. As I stated earlier from my self-analysis I feel like even though the buses are literally half way through their life cycle they will need to be replaced sooner than other RTA buses. I'm not speaking from an experts point of view though only my opinion.

 

Yesterday I saw a regular bus and one of the new Clifton BRT vehicles (currently acting as East side red line) both acting as the healthline. The healthline vehicles have many issues.

How does that work downtown with the center island/left side stations?  Do the just pick up at the right side curb across from the station?

Do the just pick up at the right side curb across from the station?

 

Yes.

I like the new stations more than the silver ones, they seem like they will look more visually pleasing for a longer period of time due to having brick instead of metal, they also seem more well built due to the brick.

 

Sure do wish the Healthline was getting more articulated buses due to the current stock being on its last legs? Also will these run 24hrs down Clifton? It seems like RTA doesn't allow its articulated fleet to run all day on the west side.

 

Why would you think the HL vehicles are anywhere near the end of their life useful cycle??  That statement/question has me perplexed.

 

I think believe the Clifton stations are appropriate for the surrounding architecture.  The non historic Shaker Rapid stations shelters should be rebuilt using this design.

Just my self-analysis, the buses continuously break down and sometimes have to have regular 2200-2800 series buses replace them which to me indicates that they are having problems keeping the HL buses on the road due to maintenance issues. The HL buses probably will age faster due to them being used 24/7 so heavy mileage use is beginning to catch up to it in my opinion.  Also due to heavy usage the interiors are starting to show age, ramps are being duct taped, the LED indicators don't work half the time as well. Mechanically the buses sound loud an atrocious, especially given the type of route it represents. As I stated earlier from my self-analysis I feel like even though the buses are literally half way through their life cycle they will need to be replaced sooner than other RTA buses. I'm not speaking from an experts point of view though only my opinion.

 

Yesterday I saw a regular bus and one of the new Clifton BRT vehicles (currently acting as East side red line) both acting as the healthline. The healthline vehicles have many issues.

Does anyone have any facts to these claims?  the lines been open 4 years.  I find it hard to believe the vehicles have "many issues".

I think part of the perceived problem is that when a Healthline bus goes down for something and a stand-in bus is used it's incredibly obvious because none of the other buses look like the healthlines buses. If some random route switches buses because of some problem nobody will bat an eye because the regular fleet is basically interchangeable.

I like the new stations more than the silver ones, they seem like they will look more visually pleasing for a longer period of time due to having brick instead of metal, they also seem more well built due to the brick.

 

Sure do wish the Healthline was getting more articulated buses due to the current stock being on its last legs? Also will these run 24hrs down Clifton? It seems like RTA doesn't allow its articulated fleet to run all day on the west side.

 

Why would you think the HL vehicles are anywhere near the end of their life useful cycle??  That statement/question has me perplexed.

 

I think believe the Clifton stations are appropriate for the surrounding architecture.  The non historic Shaker Rapid stations shelters should be rebuilt using this design.

Just my self-analysis, the buses continuously break down and sometimes have to have regular 2200-2800 series buses replace them which to me indicates that they are having problems keeping the HL buses on the road due to maintenance issues. The HL buses probably will age faster due to them being used 24/7 so heavy mileage use is beginning to catch up to it in my opinion.  Also due to heavy usage the interiors are starting to show age, ramps are being duct taped, the LED indicators don't work half the time as well. Mechanically the buses sound loud an atrocious, especially given the type of route it represents. As I stated earlier from my self-analysis I feel like even though the buses are literally half way through their life cycle they will need to be replaced sooner than other RTA buses. I'm not speaking from an experts point of view though only my opinion.

 

Yesterday I saw a regular bus and one of the new Clifton BRT vehicles (currently acting as East side red line) both acting as the healthline. The healthline vehicles have many issues.

Does anyone have any facts to these claims?  the lines been open 4 years.  I find it hard to believe the vehicles have "many issues".

Having different vehichles running as healthlines during the middle of the day that weren't designed for it such as the 2200-2800 and the new Clifton bus isn't proof enough? That shows me that they don't have enough buses that are driveable at that moment that can step in, because if they did they would dead head that bis to where ever the broken bus is and pick up the patrons from the broken down bus. Also  it's been 6 years and this isn't the first time that has had to occur, different buses have had to step in as HLs multiple times before. (Not trying to sound rude)

 

Also as someone mentioned earlier this isn't an ordinary route this is a special route designed for specific buses to drive on it, and given how high profile of a route it is, if they had Healthline buses ready to go I'm sure they would place them on the route instead of the standard bus.

I don't know either way about "serious issues," but McLovin's right: if you literally can't board a vehicle running the HL route from a specially designed HL platform downtown, something's clearly awry. It's not just that the substitute buses look different, it's that they operate differently. But we don't really know how serious it is. might just be poorly planned maintenance scheduling. Might be worth a question to Jerry in the general RTA thread.

 

Not just for this reason, in retrospect, I wish RTA had tried harder to design a system that didn't need any left hand boarding.

Jerry monitors each of the GCRTA threads.

I saw atleast two Clifton brt vehicles operating as Healthline vehicles today. Also the healthline vehicles clearly have issues. The ramps are broken, the horns do not work on several of the vehicles, polls disconnected, duct tape on the floor, etc.

Whats up with Euclid? While riding the Healthline I noticed that a lot of Euclid Avenue is cut up. Did the cement really get that bad that quickly that that much of Euclid needs to be replaced? The curbs in the medians also seem to be falling apart in places.

Jetdog or anyone else know why the New Articulated buses are being used on the healthline?

^I saw a Healthline vehicle getting towed down Euclid Avenue last week so I would guess breakdowns would be the reason. Higher capacity than the regular busses which are also being used as replacements.

^I saw a Healthline vehicle getting towed down Euclid Avenue last week so I would guess breakdowns would be the reason. Higher capacity than the regular busses which are also being used as replacements.

 

I've seen A LOT of the new buses substituting for the regular HealthLine buses.

When the new Clifton buses must replace the regular HealthLine buses (why is this happening?), the Clifton buses must operate in a regular traffic lane on Euclid Avenue to board/alight from the sidewalk/curb instead of the bus lane/bus stations many of which have left-side boarding.

 

The result is that a significant back-up of traffic occurs. This was yesterday......

 

^I too have seen a number of HL buses either sitting dark with their "out of service" signage on, or being towed down Euclid.  These buses have barely been running 6 years but the wear & tear thing is really taking its toll.

^ I have seen several being towed down Euclid as well

When the new Clifton buses must replace the regular HealthLine buses (why is this happening?), the Clifton buses must operate in a regular traffic lane on Euclid Avenue to board/alight from the sidewalk/curb instead of the bus lane/bus stations many of which have left-side boarding.

 

The result is that a significant back-up of traffic occurs. This was yesterday......

 

 

IMO, that is unacceptable.  Reducing general-purpose lanes from two in each direction, to one, is obviously bad for congestion, but reducing that one lane to effectively zero, is WAY worse.  There should have been enough HL-compatible vehicles purchased to account for breakdowns and such.  And before someone jumps in and points out that they are in service 24/7, that is something that should have been anticipated as well.  Obviously a vehicle that's in service nearly continuously is going to need more maintenance and service than one that is more lightly used.  But, in fairness to RTA, it was probably not anticipated that the cities of Cleveland and East Cleveland would fail to follow through on their promises to properly synchronize the timing of the traffic lights; that probably has contributed to the overuse of the HL vehicles, not to mention much of the reason why on several major sections of the route, most notably the East Cleveland portion, they really aren't much if any faster than the regular #6 buses used to be.

Are there any center platforms east of PHS?  I don't understand why the bus in KJP's photo isn't just using the BRT lanes on that stretch. Do the right side doors not like up with the stations?

Are there any center platforms east of PHS?  I don't understand why the bus in KJP's photo isn't just using the BRT lanes on that stretch. Do the right side doors not like up with the stations?

 

The only left-side boarding locations east of East 13th/Huron station is East 100th (Sundays only) and East 105th.

 

But it may also be a level boarding/ADA compliance issue.

^Aren't those two stations normal right side boarding?

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5036481,-81.6152415,173m/data=!3m1!1e3

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5035939,-81.6177923,173m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

I guess I could see ADA issues.  How is ADA compliance handled for the HL now?  Are there extendable ramps or is the gap supposed to be narrow enough for normal level boarding?  Maybe the non-HL buses have lower door openings to better match up to typical curb heights?

 

ADDENDUM: This is just seems like such a dumb limitation. If you aren't going to build real rail transit, it seems like a key benefit of BRT should be most of the flexibility from rubber tire service, like swapping out vehicles as needed, or adding new outer branches that feed into the trunk line.  The decision to go with left hand loading downtown and the apparent limitations on using normal buses at these stations eliminate all that flexibility.

 

I guess I could see ADA issues.  How is ADA compliance handled for the HL now?  Are there extendable ramps or is the gap supposed to be narrow enough for normal level boarding?  Maybe the non-HL buses have lower door openings to better match up to typical curb heights?

 

They have extendable ramps. I haven't seen any of the back door ramps be used in a long time. Most of the front door ramps are broken so the driver has to park the bus and manually flip open the ramp with the handles they have installed since they must not plan on fixing them. It creates a nice sound as the bus driver throws the ramp up and it crashes against the pavement.

^Aren't those two stations normal right side boarding?

 

 

Upon further review.... My mistake. There isn't a single station east of East 13th that has left-side boarding. But level boarding/ADA compliance is the issue.

Found out today that GCRTA's signalization contract for the HealthLine was about $15 million when procured in 2007. However this covers more than just the signal priority system. It also includes communications and passenger information systems.

Found out today that GCRTA's signalization contract for the HealthLine was about $15 million when procured in 2007. However this covers more than just the signal priority system. It also includes communications and passenger information systems.

 

Why is it that RTA has not activated this system?  And how are the new articulated buses that do not have doors on both sides operating on the Healthline?  Driving home I noticed one of those buses at Euclid and E107 and it clearly said healthline.  Just curious how that works with the downtown platforms.

Found out today that GCRTA's signalization contract for the HealthLine was about $15 million when procured in 2007. However this covers more than just the signal priority system. It also includes communications and passenger information systems.

Sorry KJP, I may be late to the party on this one.  I was curious what the signalization contract covers.  Based on Midwest Champs response, it sounds like they are not implementing the scope within the contract.  Does that mean we are not really seeing the true benefits, from an operations standpoint, of the Healthline yet?  Ideally for the Healthline, I would like to see that those bus's never stop at red lights, and only at platforms.  Was that the original intent, and what is spelled out in the contract?

Found out today that GCRTA's signalization contract for the HealthLine was about $15 million when procured in 2007. However this covers more than just the signal priority system. It also includes communications and passenger information systems.

 

Why is it that RTA has not activated this system?  And how are the new articulated buses that do not have doors on both sides operating on the Healthline?  Driving home I noticed one of those buses at Euclid and E107 and it clearly said healthline.  Just curious how that works with the downtown platforms.

 

It doesn't "work" with the downtown platforms. Last week I was waiting for a HL bus at E. 6th St, and one of the new buses approached. The bus stopped on the curb opposite the station, and I was given no indication as to what I should do. I had to jump off the platform, cross the street, and enter the bus from the sidewalk curb. It was ridiculous.

The story's been told a few times within this thread, but I'm pretty sure the city's traffic engineers nixed the signal preemption because of the feared effect on traffic.  There may also have been disappointing results from some early use of the system.  Either way, it's frustrating, and not what the city/RTA promised.

 

Overall, the project improved transportation, but I find myself increasingly disappointed with many aspects of the execution of the HL.

Why is it that RTA has not activated this system?  And how are the new articulated buses that do not have doors on both sides operating on the Healthline?  Driving home I noticed one of those buses at Euclid and E107 and it clearly said healthline.  Just curious how that works with the downtown platforms.

 

The city has control over the traffic signals, not GCRTA. The new articulated buses (bought for the Clifton BRT-lite) are being used when the regular HealthLine buses suffer mechanical issues.

 

Sorry KJP, I may be late to the party on this one.  I was curious what the signalization contract covers.  Based on Midwest Champs response, it sounds like they are not implementing the scope within the contract.  Does that mean we are not really seeing the true benefits, from an operations standpoint, of the Healthline yet?  Ideally for the Healthline, I would like to see that those bus's never stop at red lights, and only at platforms.  Was that the original intent, and what is spelled out in the contract?

 

I haven't seen the contract, but the intent was to give transit vehicles priority at signals over cars. The city had turned on the system in 2008 and buses did have priority. But it was shut off by the city sometime thereafter. I don't know why. There was a report by an alternative media outlet that an influential person was in their car on Euclid and complained to the city after a signal gave priority to a bus. That's the only report I've seen.

it is time to replace the buses that can't with the trams that can

 

It doesn't "work" with the downtown platforms. Last week I was waiting for a HL bus at E. 6th St, and one of the new buses approached. The bus stopped on the curb opposite the station, and I was given no indication as to what I should do. I had to jump off the platform, cross the street, and enter the bus from the sidewalk curb. It was ridiculous.

 

I concur, this is not only ridiculous, it's dangerous -- if you (or any passenger) was hit by a car or any other vehicle while making this "transfer", RTA most assuredly would be liable.  If the regular HL buses can't be operated, then RTA should shut down the platforms completely and post boarding signs at curbside until all the regular HL buses are fixed.  This mixing and matching incompatible buses to the BRT corridor is clearly not the answer.

It doesn't "work" with the downtown platforms. Last week I was waiting for a HL bus at E. 6th St, and one of the new buses approached. The bus stopped on the curb opposite the station, and I was given no indication as to what I should do. I had to jump off the platform, cross the street, and enter the bus from the sidewalk curb. It was ridiculous.

 

I concur, this is not only ridiculous, it's dangerous -- if you (or any passenger) was hit by a car or any other vehicle while making this "transfer", RTA most assuredly would be liable.  If the regular HL buses can't be operated, then RTA should shut down the platforms completely and post boarding signs at curbside until all the regular HL buses are fixed.  This mixing and matching incompatible buses to the BRT corridor is clearly not the answer.

 

This sounds confusing and dangerous for regular RTA riders, so I can only imagine the confusion it would cause visitors using the system, and the poor experience it would create.

It doesn't "work" with the downtown platforms. Last week I was waiting for a HL bus at E. 6th St, and one of the new buses approached. The bus stopped on the curb opposite the station, and I was given no indication as to what I should do. I had to jump off the platform, cross the street, and enter the bus from the sidewalk curb. It was ridiculous.

 

I concur, this is not only ridiculous, it's dangerous -- if you (or any passenger) was hit by a car or any other vehicle while making this "transfer", RTA most assuredly would be liable.  If the regular HL buses can't be operated, then RTA should shut down the platforms completely and post boarding signs at curbside until all the regular HL buses are fixed.  This mixing and matching incompatible buses to the BRT corridor is clearly not the answer.

 

This sounds confusing and dangerous for regular RTA riders, so I can only imagine the confusion it would cause visitors using the system, and the poor experience it would create.

 

Exactly. As a regular reader of this forum, I of course knew what was happening. But I played dumb as if I was a tourist or new RTA rider. It would have been extremely confusing (as if the RTA system isn't confusing enough for non-locals already).

 

Richmond, Va using Cleveland as a "best practices"...

 

"@RRPDC: Cleveland's @GCRTA: "Branding is key to #BRT success. Yeah, #RVA can do #branding. ;-) #BRTforRVA @RVARapidTransit http://t.co/gqToPZFfDG"

Cleveland's HealthLine gets an honorable mention in this rating of world-wide BRT station designs (Cleveland's photo is show last):

 

7 Design Lessons From the World's Most Gorgeous BRT Stations

Ideas that help distinguish the service from a regular old bus.

ERIC JAFFE @e_jaffe Jan 23, 2015 15 Comments

 

The United States has a lot to learn about quality bus-rapid transit, and great station design is toward the top of that lesson plan. Take the Orange Line BRT in Los Angeles—one of America's highest-rated BRT systems, earning a bronze rating from the Institute for Transportation and Development Policy. It's not that Orange Line stations like the one below are unattractive for bus stops. It's just that they still inspire comparisons with bus stops.

 

Here's the problem: a slightly better bus stop reinforces the false idea that BRT is just a slightly better bus, when in fact it's really a mode unto itself, and a vastly superior one when done right. There's a reason ITDP sees nice stations as "one of the main distinguishing features" between BRT and standard buses. In the absence of such distinctions, the result can be instinctual resistance to BRT adoption.

 

Great stations certainly can't make up for poor service, but they do hold the power to enhance good service. Riders perceive wait times to be shorter in bus shelters compared with simpler stops, they're willing to walk a bit farther to reach a nicer train station, and they altogether avoid stations they consider unsafe. Add to these insights the developer confidence that comes with attractive fixed transit and you have a strong case for nice stations to be part of any true BRT plan.

 

MORE:

http://www.citylab.com/design/2015/01/7-design-lessons-from-the-worlds-most-gorgeous-brt-stations/384773/

Rapid transit takes sponsorship route

By Aaron Drawhorn

Published: March 24, 2015, 8:07 pm  Updated: March 24, 2015, 8:08 pm

 

ALBUQUERQUE (KRQE) - Just like the Pit is now known as WisePies arena, the future of transit in Albuquerque could involve naming rights. Albuquerque Rapid Transit is looking at sponsorships for not only transit stations but for the whole line to save taxpayers money.

 

ABQ RIDE says construction on the Albuquerque Rapid Transit, or ART, could have a final design by next February. The $100 million dollar bus rapid transit project would carry passengers up and down Central in a special bus lane, eventually running from Unser to Tramway.

 

...Albuquerque is looking to model its plan after Cleveland. The Cleveland HealthLine is sponsored through a hospital partnership, and ABQ RIDE says the financial outcome has been great for that city.

 

...DeReyes said the city of Albuquerque is looking at partnering with The Superlative Group, a Cleveland-based firm, which is involved in naming rights for public assets like transit, but also ballparks, stadiums and arenas.

 

MORE:

http://krqe.com/2015/03/24/rapid-transit-takes-sponsorship-route/

I grew up in Cleveland. I love Cleveland. So I wrote about Cleveland, from a bus. http://t.co/IQ4Js1whdu @bpolitics http://t.co/zPMSg192z2

Some relation to the Healthline BRT http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-08-06/a-single-cleveland-bus-route-offers-promise-challenges-for-republicans

Some relation to the Healthline BRT http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-08-06/a-single-cleveland-bus-route-offers-promise-challenges-for-republicans

 

Same article I posted.

Some relation to the Healthline BRT http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-08-06/a-single-cleveland-bus-route-offers-promise-challenges-for-republicans

 

Same article I posted.

 

Gotcha.  Sorry can't access your twitter links :)

How to write and article about Cleveland: "Look, some shiny new buildings!  Awww but there are some poor people.  Rebirth. Renaissance. Revitalization.      - Fin."

 

It's amazing how literally every single article about Cleveland follows exactly that model.

 

Edit: I forgot to throw in the word "grit."

Gotcha.  Sorry can't access your twitter links :)

 

Really? You can't open the first of the two links in my posting? That's odd.

http://activetrans.org/blog/bus-rapid-transit-can-be-successful-usa

 

Bus Rapid Transit can be successful in the USA

 

A short, positive article

http://activetrans.org/blog/bus-rapid-transit-can-be-successful-usa

 

Bus Rapid Transit can be successful in the USA

 

A short, positive article

 

"Just like in Chicago, Cleveland employers have made it clear access to public transit is a priority for attracting new employees."

 

They have?

Health Line has too many stations as in 20 for 4 miles. I still take the Rapid from Downtown to Windemere or the 39F Lakeshore to Euclid 185th to go home to 185th. Or Laketran.

http://activetrans.org/blog/bus-rapid-transit-can-be-successful-usa

 

Bus Rapid Transit can be successful in the USA

 

A short, positive article

 

"Just like in Chicago, Cleveland employers have made it clear access to public transit is a priority for attracting new employees."

 

They have?

 

I interviewed for two downtown jobs last year.  Both of them offered incentives for using public transportation.

http://activetrans.org/blog/bus-rapid-transit-can-be-successful-usa

 

Bus Rapid Transit can be successful in the USA

 

A short, positive article

 

"Just like in Chicago, Cleveland employers have made it clear access to public transit is a priority for attracting new employees."

 

They have?

 

I interviewed for two downtown jobs last year.  Both of them offered incentives for using public transportation.

 

Ironically, the namesake of the HealthLine, Cleveland Clinic, does not offer any incentives.

In Cleveland, they built it, and riders came, along with a whole lot more

 

by Nancy Derringer

Bridge Magazine

 

When he arrived from New York City in 2000, Calabrese wasn’t taking over a system in the same shape as Metro Detroit’s. The Cleveland region supports its public transit with a 1 percent sales tax, and rail commuting was well-established there. But Euclid needed improvements that new buses alone couldn’t accomplish. And new light rail was prohibitively expensive. Former Gov. George Voinovich had seen bus rapid transit on a trip to Brazil. He wondered if it could work in his hometown.

 

As it turned out, it could. The BRT line that was constructed beginning in 2005 opened three years later, at a total cost of $200 million, about half provided by the federal government. Today, Calabrese said, it boasts the highest return on investment for any public transit project in the country – $114 for every dollar spent.

 

http://bridgemi.com/2016/02/in-cleveland-they-built-it-and-riders-came-along-with-a-whole-lot-more/