4,700 sign petitions opposing Clinic closing of Euclid Avenue

Saturday, August 12, 2006

Joe Guillen

Plain Dealer Reporter

 

Cleveland Councilwoman Fannie Lewis has gathered more than 4,700 signatures from people opposed to a Cleveland Clinic plan to divert cars from Euclid Avenue between East 86th and East 105th streets.

 

...........

 

http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1155372284275120.xml&coll=2

I'm a fan of neither ECP nor the current RTA admin, but I'm on their side with this one.  The Clinic is clearly throwing its unwanted girth around where it shouldn't be.  They could have been a team player, but they're clearly out for #1... so what else is new in Cleveland?

Lewis said Cleveland Clinic representatives involved in the plan haven't contacted her. "People that big don't ask," she said. "Ain't nobody bigger than me."

 

Loved this quote from Fannie!

Lewis said Cleveland Clinic representatives involved in the plan haven't contacted her. "People that big don't ask," she said. "Ain't nobody bigger than me."

 

Loved this quote from Fannie!

 

 

I have no opinion one way or another yet on the Clinic proposal, but what's the big inconvenience?  With Carnegie and Chester, it's easy to bypass the Clinic if you're driving through.  If you're going to the Clinic area, what's the difference? 

I'm a fan of neither ECP nor the current RTA admin, but I'm on their side with this one.  The Clinic is clearly throwing its unwanted girth around where it shouldn't be.  They could have been a team player, but they're clearly out for #1... so what else is new in Cleveland?

 

They certainly came to the table late.  Where were they when the Silver Line plans were being made?  The Clinic can often be quite aloof.  Their billing department is one of the places where the proof of this is glaringly obvious, but I'm digressing and getting off the subject...

 

 

Lewis said Cleveland Clinic representatives involved in the plan haven't contacted her. "People that big don't ask," she said. "Ain't nobody bigger than me."

 

Loved this quote from Fannie!

 

 

I have no opinion one way or another yet on the Clinic proposal, but what's the big inconvenience?  With Carnegie and Chester, it's easy to bypass the Clinic if you're driving through.  If you're going to the Clinic area, what's the difference? 

 

I don't think its a big inconvience, but what "added value" and "benefit" would this give (bring to) the clinic, the adjoining neighborhoods, university circle and cleveland?

 

I think more people are upset/concerned that CC has again (made) plans that act as a barrier to the surrounding communities.  IE..we don't mind coming to CC to work, we just don't want "you people" to get to close to our campus. 

 

The clinic often acts as if it on an island and not apart of the fabric - which it helped to destroy - of the neighborhoods in which it sits in.

 

the buildings (most of the campus) acts as "invisible barrier" NOT as neighbor reinvesting in its neighborhood.

 

This is a clear sign that the days of CC (or any other UC institution) saying that they are going to do this, that or the other to their campuses or adjoing properties without regards to the citizens of fairfax, hough or little italy are over.

Inconvenience at the very least is what gildone mentioned: coming to the party very late, in mid-2006, when planning for this thing was done years ago, if I'm not mistaken.  Where were they then?  As I understand, auto traffic is reduced to one laneper direction in some places on Euclid; that might be the case near the CC which will likely remove all but the most essential auto traffic from the area.  People looking to whip through will still use Carnegie or Chester for that purpose.  If the ECP was designed right, the whole area should be pedestrian-friendly enough.

Lewis said Cleveland Clinic representatives involved in the plan haven't contacted her. "People that big don't ask," she said. "Ain't nobody bigger than me."

 

I quess I will continue to be in the minority on this one. I am all for this proposal. Fannie Lewis! I mean you've got to be kidding me. It' s these corrupt, stuck in the mud politicians that continue to hold this city down. Does this woman have a lifetime appointment or what. You couldn't go to "Central Casting" and find a better example of old guard city politics. I continue to see on this thread statements about how the big bad clinic is trying to throw its weight around w/o any concern for the neighborhood. I mean enough already-stop with the "class warfare". Were would that neighborhood be w/o the incredible improvements and commitment with jobs and infrastructure that is being brought to that part of the city. The Clinic's not perfect, but it's one of our biggest employers and something that we all point to with pride. Unlike most of us on this forum, they live in that neighborhood everyday. They spend 12 to 14 hours a day there. At one time this city was #3 in the country in fortune 500 companies, but the likes of Lewis and Kucinich and Forbes chased them all away with divisive politics.  And things haven't changed.

After going to the "Feast" yesterday in Little Italy, I drove back down Euclid ave. to check out the BRT progress. Driving down Euclid and passing through the clinic I could not help but imagine how 20 blocks of greenspace and flowers would help bring life back into this very depressing area. This  would be enjoyed by everyone, from those in the neighborhood, to the workers and the visitors. Because right now all we have is zero pedestrian traffic and dirty concrete. This could be an oasis in an otherwise dreary area. This proposal would inconvenience no one, I am very sure we would all adapt. I think anytime you can take cars off the street and build a park for pedestrians and public transportation-you do it.

^^^Cool article from Toronto! Makes me optimistic about the ECP.

mytwosense:  I know what you mean about the Clinic's buildings being an invisible barrier.  I have a parent who has been in and out of the CC for 2 1/2 years.  I would often take the Red Line to Univ. Circle and walk to the Clinic to visit (faster than the #6, but that was before I figured out the 9X).  There was no easy way to get into the Clinic from Carnegie.  I often had to go in via the Continental Hotel and take the elevator up to the Sky Walk to get inside so I could get to the building where she was.  It's such a pedestrian unfriendly environment. 

 

If Euclid is going to be down to one lane in each direction for driving, that's pretty good traffic calming in and of itself.  The main reason I might hesitate to support (though I'm still undecided) the proposal is because the CC is trying to get in the game during the 9th inning.  They should have been at spring training.

What about all the businesses, churches and other institutions along this part of Euclid that would be stuck in the middle of this park? I don't think this would be beneficial to them.

At one time this city was #3 in the country in fortune 500 companies, but the likes of Lewis and Kucinich and Forbes chased them all away with divisive politics.  And things haven't changed.

 

It's a little disingenuous to blame Cleveland's business woes on exactly three people (who all happen to be Democrats) isn't it???

^Seriously.  I suspect that Cleveland's lower stature as a center of big business has a lot more to do with mergers with, or acquisitions by, non-local firms and the changing economy...the region hasn't exactly grown a lot of new fortune 500 firms of late.

 

But, while I sympathize with critics of the CC's poor community relations and arrogance, that's a lame reason not to judge the project on it merits (as long as CC pays the additional costs which I believe it has offered to do).  This part of Euclid has not been a significant biz corridor since the 'hood was demoed decades ago; seriously, how many businesses are even there to be inconvenienced?  A couple fast food joints a few blocks to the west?  This city is full of long, wide, unbroken traffic corridors...it could be kind of cool to try something different here.

 

 

I am 90% sure that CC is the landlord for most, if not all, of the buildings between 105 and 89th.  As the Clinic needs more space, they will jettison the retail and build anew. They already are getting ready to kick out the Rite Aid (or is it CVS) and the BP to make room for their new entrance boulevard from Chester. 

This city is full of long, wide, unbroken traffic corridors...it could be kind of cool to try something different here.

 

I don't believe in doing something just because you can, or just because it's different.  I believe in doing things that work.  This idea, in addition to being late to the table and expensive, in effect causes the Clinic to turn itself inside out by focusing inward instead of outward to the city.  It's important to integrate this large institution into the community, both physically, psychologically, and otherwise, rather than reinforce the "bunker" mentality.

 

It's already taken 25 years and $250 million to get this lousy bus line.  Time to start moving on to bigger and better things.  The Clinic, while an important business, does not run the City of Cleveland.  Both parties need to realize that.

 

 

I think that we are giving this proposal more energy than its worth.  The Clinic doesn't have some magic wand that it can use.  Jackson has already been quoted as being against it. Additionally, there are many state and federal loops that would have to be jumped through in order to make this happen.

I know that there is one large Chrch that is already hemmed in by the Clinic. It could be disasterous to the congregation of that facility if Euclid is closed off. As I have said before the Clinic already has open spaces on their campus and nearby , that is underused, there is no need for anymore. Why would anybody use this open space? There will be nothing but grass and trees in a canyon of Medical buildings.

This city is full of long, wide, unbroken traffic corridors...it could be kind of cool to try something different here.

 

I don't believe in doing something just because you can, or just because it's different.  I believe in doing things that work.  This idea, in addition to being late to the table and expensive, in effect causes the Clinic to turn itself inside out by focusing inward instead of outward to the city.  It's important to integrate this large institution into the community, both physically, psychologically, and otherwise, rather than reinforce the "bunker" mentality.

 

It's already taken 25 years and $250 million to get this lousy bus line.  Time to start moving on to bigger and better things.  The Clinic, while an important business, does not run the City of Cleveland.  Both parties need to realize that.

 

 

 

Damnit Dan....we actually agree on something.   :-o  :-o  :-o

 

Although, i don't think it took 25 years to get the BRT.  but it sure feels like it!

....  :-D

It has taken 25 years.  Remember, the Euclid Corridor "Improvement" Project was originally conceived as the Dual Hub subway, way back in 1983.

It has taken 25 years.  Remember, the Euclid Corridor "Improvement" Project was originally conceived as the Dual Hub subway, way back in 1983.

ahhh...now i see what you're saying.

Don't forget about the subway...

and the elevated version.

It has taken 25 years.  Remember, the Euclid Corridor "Improvement" Project was originally conceived as the Dual Hub subway, way back in 1983.

 

On that score, it has its origins much farther back...

...to the 1960s and 70s plans to build a mix of at-grade and subway rail transit along Euclid or Chester,

...to the 1950s Albert Porter proposal to include a rail transit right of way in the Central Freeway,

...to the 1944 CTS post-war transit improvement plan,

...to the Van Sweringen's 1929 county-wide rapid transit plan,

...to the 1920 public vote on whether to build several subways into downtown Cleveland,

...and to several concepts even before that.

 

Too bad it's not possible to build tracks out of paper.

 

I don't believe in doing something just because you can, or just because it's different.  I believe in doing things that work.  This idea, in addition to being late to the table and expensive, in effect causes the Clinic to turn itself inside out by focusing inward instead of outward to the city.  It's important to integrate this large institution into the community, both physically, psychologically, and otherwise, rather than reinforce the "bunker" mentality.

 

It's already taken 25 years and $250 million to get this lousy bus line.  Time to start moving on to bigger and better things.  The Clinic, while an important business, does not run the City of Cleveland.  Both parties need to realize that.

 

Oh good god.  Ask Albert Porter about sticking with what "works".  Relax, I'm not comparing you to him, just objecting to the emptiness of your description of intellectual discipline.

 

Anyway, I'm not going to push for anything that would slow the BRT construction or cost the city or RTA any more $.  But if the CC will pay for any design changes and increases in construction costs and can convince me it won't delay the project, I'd take a look at their plans.  Maybe it doesn't work with the church there, or maybe the CC would get them on board with a donation and free parking rights in their garage- I don't know, but it would be part of the CC's plan.  My point about doing something different is not just to be "different" (not talking body piercings here), it's simply that adding a geographic feature, a kink in our vehicular routes, could add some interesting relief to our long boring avenues.  There are probably easier ways to do this (are there any significant new squares planned on the BRT route?) but I'd still be curious to see a more-specific proposal.  And I note that the clinic has turned its back on Carnegie and Chester for many years with Euclid open to traffic, I'm really not sure how closing it to traffic is going to change this bunker mentality at all.

 

Sounds like too much would have had to happen to make this work, so seems pretty moot.

Art approved for transportation project

 

 

2:30 p.m. Wednesday

Carolyn Jack

The Plain Dealer

 

......

^I wish some local artists had won the contracts.

wasnt Manka Design Studio the one that originally proposed ideas on Hotel Bruce??  Thats local.

It's a little disingenuous to blame Cleveland's business woes on exactly three people (who all happen to be Democrats) isn't it???  

 

Dan, you could count the Republicans elected to office in the city over the past 30 years on one finger, so I don't think there is too much of a conspiracy there.  Kucinich did do his fair share of poisoning the well for businesses in Cleveland.

 

Fannie Lewis is a bit different.  All she cares about is the people in her ward, and good for her. 

I know, straying from the subject.......

wasnt Manka Design Studio the one that originally proposed ideas on Hotel Bruce??  Thats local.

 

ah, missed that one.

That is EXTREMELY disappointing that the money for public art is dwindling this quickly for this project.  Originally the East 55th public art project was to be $400,000, then they requested another submittal for that project because they received more funding to bump it up to $500,000.  Now the total fundings is $600,000 for three projects (where did this E. Cleveland project come from by the way) and the East 55th Street project is totally gone?!? 

What the shit?!?

I have a conflict of interest because I had an entry at this site, but I think that could have been the best site of all three proposed; East 14th, University Circle.  The bridge itself is an industrial relic that is still visually there, and then still has the sounds of rumbling trains that have been going over head for almost a century.  It could have had the most “Cleveland” feel to it.  Old rail bridge turned civic signage and reference point.

The program for the site was to integrate the bridge with public art through manipulating the bridge whether it was painting, lighting, or utilizing it as the only shaded spot at the center point between UC and DT for cyclists and pedestrians.

Now I’m sure they will just repaint the bridge its bland grey hue and add some bullshit “historical” light fixtures around it. 

Yet another lost opportunity for this community to exert its industrial strength into the built environment. 

Once again sticking to the status quo.

I couldn’t be more pissed off about this. 

Where is Greg Peckham (Cleveland Public Art Director)?  They initiated the competition and now they and RTA should be accountable for letting this opportunity to create a dynamic public art exhibit be pushed away by some government bullshit.

F!

 

Yes, equally disappointed!  Does anybody know if this is it, or if there are more to be announced in the future.  Also, not sure where the E. Cleveland one came from (yes, in the list of many was probably there), and wouldnt imagine it would have the greatest impact if they were only funding 3 projects.

well, if 1% is for public art, this is not even half of the total expenditure.

 

there will also be art at public square, which wasn't mentioned.

 

i also think that there may be a major rebuild of the bridge area in the near future (not by 2008), and the thinking might be to just paint now and just wait for the rebuild.  how nice would these intersections be without the steel obstructions for traffic and peds?  think I77 bridges before and after...

Are you kidding me urbanlife?  Euclid Avenue is a sun drenched abyss for its entire trek through the city with the exception of downtown, and yes, the bridge at E55th street.  Snubbing your nose at something as interesting as Cleveland's connection to the east and west coast (which is what this right of way was and remains to be to a lesser extend) is poopooing the past. 

Try to take this bridge down and I will personally strap myself to its steel supports.  The underside of that thing, while dangerous in its current state, could spawn on some of the most interesting urban spaces and design opportunities if done correctly.  Check out the High-Line project in NYC, people called for its demolision for years, and now they are making it the second biggest park in the city, with proposals from some of the biggest architects and landscape architects in the world.

How one can't appreciate its brute industrial strength is beyond me.  Should we just tear down every bridge that crosses streets in this city for the sake of pedestrians?  Mayfield, Euclid and E120th, hell, why don't we just tear down the Detroit Superior bridge, it sure does cast a large shadow onto the river and its banks.

Build around the things worth saving in this city. 

We've been eliminating them for decades and that hasn't worked out too well.

although i don't share the same passion for this particular bridge crossing, my main point, as stated previously on this thread, is that i don't think anything is going on with public art here b/c of other factors, ie potentially a bridge rebuild and the thought that whatever $$ are available are not enough to do this area justice. 

 

to think that they would rebuild and not scrap the old bridge, would go against much current activity in this city.  we certainly have lost many historic structures.  it would have been nice to have the buildings on the other side of this saved as well, but no one paid much attention until the demolition was announced.

 

the end point remains the same: everyone that cares so much for this bridge (and the public art component) should be at ALL the RTA board and committee meetings making their voice heard NOW and not when a decision has already been made.   and since it is a train bridge, figure out the actual authority who would do the rebuild.  There was an RTA board meeting yesterday morning.  How many Clevelanders were there?  a few.  How many were there that didn't work for RTA?  ...guesses anyone?...

 

there is one thing cleveland has been missing for years: leaders and true civic leadership for the greater good of the community.  let's be proactive and not reactive. 

 

Whatever is done with the bridge cannot slow down the 70 freight trains per day (and two Amtraks) which use it. The reason is that, just southeast of the Euclid-East 55th bridge, the rail line's grade gets steeper as it climbs aways from the lakefront. NS already has to slow its freight trains to 25 mph to negotiate a relatively sharp curve near St. Clair in the East 30s. Some eastbound freight trains have stalled on the hill southeast of Euclid-East 55th. Any additional curvature to the rail line near Euclid-East 55th to go around a bridge project would have to be done carefully. Once completed, the bridge project would likely have to restore the railroad tracks to their original alignment.

"Where is Greg Peckham (Cleveland Public Art Director)?  They initiated the competition and now they and RTA should be accountable for letting this opportunity to create a dynamic public art exhibit be pushed away by some government bullshit. F!"

 

They have a website, with contact information. I consider Greg (and everyone at Cleveland Public Art) my friend and I would caution you to be understanding of his position. You don't know all the reasons that the budget was reduced (nor do I) and it's not fair to lay blame without knowing the background information. I've sat on juries for projects for CPA (not this one) and while there were a lot of submissions that were wonderfully brilliant and creative - I would guess that few of the artists in those particular competitions have ever budgeted, engineered or fabricated something on such a large scale. In one particular case, one artist's entry would have blown the entire project budget on the support system alone! As KJP pointed out - this is a working, functioning rail line that no matter what - the design of the art component can NOT intrude on its operation.

 

As I've learned in my career as an artist, being creative will get you far but being in budget will get your project completed.

^very true

 

I'm wondering though if there will be more public art or "creative" lighting for underneath those bridges.  walking under the one to the E120th rapid station is like a friggin cave.  not well lit and quite narrow. 

I've also had some contact with Greg Peckham and seen him speak at events like the Green Building Coalition and he seems to be a surprisingly young and passionate advocate for Cleveland in general.  It's nothing personal against him, I just thought that creating an actual place in the middle of the Euclid Corridor would help spur development along the midground of the project.  Now there will be relatively nothing besides abandoned buildings and empty lots from E55th to roughly E79th.  Thats a long way.

The fact that rail traffic could not be affected by the art was a point that was obviously made in the call for entries, so I don't think that had anything to do with the fact that the project was abandoned.

As for the RTA public meetings, it seems that they often go out of their way to make it impossible for working people to make it to their meetings.  I am very passionate about this city, but I cannot take time off from my job to attend.  Have the meetings at 7:00 so anyone who actually has a job can give their input.

Attention artist!

Here is your inspiration:

 

or could we just bring back the streetcars, people, and old buildings instead??

 

that picture shows how the area is such a shame now

I think this is a bit presumptuous on my part, but the group I was a part of that created this did get inspiration from the text on the bridge.

 

Couldn't resist when I saw the photo of the old "Pennsylvania Railroad" text in that photo.

Thought it might have some relavence.

I like it.  Is that painted on?  I know this totally ignores the notion of "fitting within the budget," but what about something like the above that operates as a ticker?  The "Euclid Ave" would be scrolling along with historical text about the avenue: "Millionaire's Row," "The Greatest Street in America," etc.  Or just with current information...time, weather, etc.

 

Another idea I had was that a much simpler light display could anounce when the next train was coming.  It would be just for fun, as no passenger trains stop here these days, but it could be really exciting...  There would be a general display on at all times, but about 1 minute before a ginormous freight train passes over, the bridge would light up with "CHOO! CHOO!" and blinking and movement and maybe even a couple steam pipes could emit some faux engine steam!  I don't know...just thinking off the cuff here.

The "Euclid Avenue" is painted on, with the west destinations (Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis, and SF) in text on the west end of the bridge, and vis-versa for the east side (Pitts, Philadelphia, Baltimore, NYC.

A lighting scheme under the bridge had more to do with the traffic signal colors, where when the light is red, the underside of the bridge fades to red, then when it turns green it would fade to green.

No idea if it would have hit the budget, but it has really got me interested into the different time periods of Euclid Ave; former Indian trail, Millionaire's Row, 1920-1960's (the most interesting time period in my opinion), and then today's abandonement.

Such a gritty intersection of transportation.

what the hell are two white people doing walking their baby across e. 55th?

 

[/racism]

Clearly a work of fiction.  Thank you Photoshop, a lifetime supply of Pampers couldn't convince a mother and father to walk that intersection with their child.  Although I guess that would be a bad deal for anyone, who needs diapers when they are 18?

a lifetime supply of Pampers couldn't convince a mother and father to walk that intersection with their child.  Although I guess that would be a bad deal for anyone, who needs diapers when they are 18?

 

Are you speaking from experience?  when is the last time you walked accross ANY PART of East 55?  Not every one who lives in that area is a degenerate or young person on welfare with a child.  WHY WOULDN'T WHITE PEOPLE WALK ON 55 TH STREET?

 

that the fuckin' problem with SOME people.  they can away make an excuse as to why white people wouldn't walk the street in a black neighborhood, but never give or reason why they (white people) can and should walk in a black neighborhood.  :x

I agree Zaceman, comparing the present to what had existed, as seen in that picture, just makes me sick.... High-density mixed-use buildings. Traffic on the streets. Lots of pedestrians around for an area 55 blocks from Public Square. If you scrolled to the right, you would see the Pennsylvania Railroad's main passenger train station for Cleveland, served by 20 daily trains in 1940. Geez, even the crosstown line on East 55th was running with a two-car streetcar and it looks like at least every seat is filled. If I could wave a magic wand....

 

what the hell are two white people doing walking their baby across e. 55th?

 

 

I saw a bunch of white guys at this intersection :-D

 

 

 

 

And on the other side... :|

 

How about "THE Euclid Avenue"