Calabrese came from Syracuse, NY.

 

Yes, the HealthLine carries 16,000 riders each weekday -- more than the #6/6A regular bus route that preceded it. But many other bus routes also went down Euclid/Carnegie Avenue back then, including the 7AX, 7AF, 9X, 9BX, 9F, 28X, 32X, 32CX, 32SX and 32WX. Now, the surviving bus routes feed into the HealthLine and Red Line at Windermere and University Circle. As recently as the late 1980s, those bus routes down Euclid/Carnegie carried a combined 54,000 riders each weekday into downtown.

^ There were a number of factual errors in there

^ There were a number of factual errors in there

 

I couldn't open the article.

^ There were a number of factual errors in there

 

I couldn't open the article.

 

"But at the turn of the century, the link between the central city’s largest employment centers – downtown and University Circle, five miles apart – was a standard city bus line down Euclid Avenue, the city’s equivalent of Detroit’s Woodward."

 

Except for, you know, the Red Line.

 

 

"The various efficiencies add up, Calabrese said. Travel time between Public Square and University Circle, the ends of the route, dropped from 40 minutes to 28."

 

I never rode the 6, but I have a hard time believing that it took 40 minutes to get to UC from Public Square. Also, UC is not the end of the route.

 

 

"What’s more, passengers pay their fare offboard, at a kiosk or online, so there’s no lineup fumbling for change at a fare box. Once the bus gets under way, it travels in sync with traffic signals, so no waiting at lights, either."

 

Nope, can't pay for your fare online. What about smartcards? Nope, don't have those either. And we still don't really know about the full situation about signal prioritization. It seems to be back on at some points, but "no waiting at lights" is definitely not an accurate statement.

 

 

"The train, originally to be named the Silver Line..."

 

Despite Joe's best attempts to convince us otherwise ("He calls BRT “light rail on different wheels” because of the enhanced user experience, but without the enormous infrastructure investment of rail lines."), the HealthLine is not a train

 

 

^ There were a number of factual errors in there

 

I couldn't open the article.

 

"But at the turn of the century, the link between the central city’s largest employment centers – downtown and University Circle, five miles apart – was a standard city bus line down Euclid Avenue, the city’s equivalent of Detroit’s Woodward."

 

Except for, you know, the Red Line.

 

 

"The various efficiencies add up, Calabrese said. Travel time between Public Square and University Circle, the ends of the route, dropped from 40 minutes to 28."

 

I never rode the 6, but I have a hard time believing that it took 40 minutes to get to UC from Public Square. Also, UC is not the end of the route.

 

 

"What’s more, passengers pay their fare offboard, at a kiosk or online, so there’s no lineup fumbling for change at a fare box. Once the bus gets under way, it travels in sync with traffic signals, so no waiting at lights, either."

 

Nope, can't pay for your fare online. What about smartcards? Nope, don't have those either. And we still don't really know about the full situation about signal prioritization. It seems to be back on at some points, but "no waiting at lights" is definitely not an accurate statement.

 

 

"The train, originally to be named the Silver Line..."

 

Despite Joe's best attempts to convince us otherwise ("He calls BRT “light rail on different wheels” because of the enhanced user experience, but without the enormous infrastructure investment of rail lines."), the HealthLine is not a train

 

The Red Line runs an out-of-the-way route; the HealthLine hits several stations at street level and is much more convenient to access.

 

The #6 could take up to 30 minutes from Public Square to CSU.  Euclid Avenue used to have a lot of congestion.  Anything is better; the Health Line has made the trip much easier and quicker.

 

I would have liked to have seen a light-rail line on Euclid Avenue since the 20+ years of Dual Hub planning started with a subway.

Last summer, All Aboard Ohio held a race from the Constantino's store on Euclid Avenue at Uptown to Tower City Center. Two groups of AAO members (including a Cincinnati councilman) walked out of the store at exactly the same time. One group took the Red Line from the new Little Italy station. The other took the HealthLine from the station stop right out front of the grocery store. The two groups texted to each other, noting their progress along the way. The group taking the Red Line arrived Tower City Center as the group on the HealthLine had just left the East 79th/Euclid station.

 

The Red Line may go farther south, but it's still much faster than the Bus "Rapid" Transit. And both go through dead zones in the middle of their routes that need to be cleaned up, redeveloped and become productive urban settings again.

I'll never understand why the City is so opposed to turning on the signal prioritization for the Healthline.

It was turned on but a select few influential motorists complained to the mayor about having to wait at a traffic signal so buses with dozens of passengers could go through first. Think this country doesn't have a caste system? ?

It was turned on but a select few influential motorists complained to the mayor about having to wait at a traffic signal so buses with dozens of passengers could go through first. Think this country doesn't have a caste system? ?

 

Oh, do tell! Who did the complaining?

I don't know. But I'm told they were prominent Cleveland Clinic doctors.

If Portland can remove station from its Streetcar route to reduce trip times, I hope we can someday do the same with the HL. It's not really a "rapid" anything when you have stations every couple blocks for the entire length.

Last summer, All Aboard Ohio held a race from the Constantino's store on Euclid Avenue at Uptown to Tower City Center. Two groups of AAO members (including a Cincinnati councilman) walked out of the store at exactly the same time. One group took the Red Line from the new Little Italy station. The other took the HealthLine from the station stop right out front of the grocery store. The two groups texted to each other, noting their progress along the way. The group taking the Red Line arrived Tower City Center as the group on the HealthLine had just left the East 79th/Euclid station.

 

The Red Line may go farther south, but it's still much faster than the Bus "Rapid" Transit. And both go through dead zones in the middle of their routes that need to be cleaned up, redeveloped and become productive urban settings again.

 

The Red Line is faster of course with what, 6 stops from LI to TC? It doesn't serve Euclid Avenue well though.

I don't know. But I'm told they were prominent Cleveland Clinic doctors.

 

Now that the City is building them a $100 million driveway, maybe they'll turn it back on.

The signal priority is most definitely back on to a certain extent. I've witnessed it between E 14 St and E 24 St. Sometimes it seems to work better than other times and at some intersections it still seems like it's not activated. So who knows.

The Red Line is faster of course with what, 6 stops from LI to TC? It doesn't serve Euclid Avenue well though.

 

You did notice where our race began, right?

 

Now that the City is building them a $100 million driveway, maybe they'll turn it back on.

 

Are you referring to the Opportunity Corridor? If so, multiply your number by 3.5.

The Red Line is faster of course with what, 6 stops from LI to TC? It doesn't serve Euclid Avenue well though.

 

You did notice where our race began, right?

 

Now that the City is building them a $100 million driveway, maybe they'll turn it back on.

 

Are you referring to the Opportunity Corridor? If so, multiply your number by 3.5.

.

I know where the race began and if one is simply going from UC to Public Square or obviously for OC or Hopkins, then the Red Line makes sense.  The real issue is attracting transit users on the Euclid Corridor between downtown and UC.  Future employees and residents will use the HL, not the Red Line for jobs and residences between downtown and UC.  Say you live downtown and work in a bio tech lab on Euclid Avenue in midtown.  Which public transit choice would you make: HealthLine or Red Line?  Or you live in UC and work downtown but not in or around Tower City.  HL is much more accessible  than the Red Line as Euclid Avenue will be the spine between UC and downtown.

The Red Line is faster of course with what, 6 stops from LI to TC? It doesn't serve Euclid Avenue well though.

 

You did notice where our race began, right?

 

Now that the City is building them a $100 million driveway, maybe they'll turn it back on.

 

Are you referring to the Opportunity Corridor? If so, multiply your number by 3.5.

.

I know where the race began and if one is simply going from UC to Public Square or obviously for OC or Hopkins, then the Red Line makes sense.  The real issue is attracting transit users on the Euclid Corridor between downtown and UC.  Future employees and residents will use the HL, not the Red Line for jobs and residences between downtown and UC.  Say you live downtown and work in a bio tech lab on Euclid Avenue in midtown.  Which public transit choice would you make: HealthLine or Red Line?  Or you live in UC and work downtown but not in or around Tower City.  HL is much more accessible  than the Red Line as Euclid Avenue will be the spine between UC and downtown.

 

When I was at Case, I'd take the Red Line if I was starting/ending my day at White Builidng (way south on the Case quad) but definitely took the 9 if I was at Thwing. 

 

The Red Line drops the ball big by missing CC (unless one wants to pass through some areas the city doesn't feature in its ads).  Also, the 34th and 79 stops could go away.  It would also have been better to phase out 105th and build a new station closer to the Clinic.

 

Heavy rail is best using limited stops, each a mini-hub of sorts.  Not every line needs to go downtown. They are beginning to do the hub now at UC.

Came across this very cool youtube video tour of Euclid Avenue at night.  Goes from Playhouse Square to Public Square and back.  This seemed to be the best thread to put it in. 

 

^Sweet; even if a bit dizzying at times.

Curious about bus rapid transit? Check out Cleveland

Eric D. Lawrence, Detroit Free Press 10:46 p.m. EDT June 19, 2016

 

Tiffany Augustine has thought about buying a car, but she has other priorities.

 

“It’s either I get a car or I pay my bills,” she said while riding a bus in Cleveland last week. “I think it’s more important for my (12-year-old) son to keep a roof over his head.”

 

The 33-year-old takes the same bus route daily to and from her job as a sandwich-maker at a café and bakery near Cleveland’s main drag, Euclid Avenue. On this particular Wednesday afternoon after her shift, Augustine was heading home on a bus full of people, so full that she felt compelled to ask the “young people” on the bus to give up their seat for an older woman nearby who would otherwise have had to stand.

 

Moments later, the woman had a seat as the bus continued on its route, the HealthLine, the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority’s most popular bus line, serving 5 million riders each year.

 

For metro Detroiters, Cleveland’s HealthLine offers a well-regarded version of what they will likely be asked to support this fall when voters in Macomb, Oakland, Washtenaw and Wayne counties head to the polls. The Regional Transit Authority of Southeast Michigan has made bus rapid transit, with lines on Woodward, Gratiot and Michigan avenues and a separate line connecting Ann Arbor and Ypsilanti, the centerpiece of its $4.6-billion master plan. And if, as assumed, the RTA board gives its final approval to the plan in July, voters in the four counties will weigh a 1.2-mill property tax to pay for it.

 

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2016/06/19/riders-praise-cleveland-brt/85970434/

 

^The Health Line is the national rock star among cities unwilling to pay the bucks for rail.

When are they getting new buses for them? Usually it's around 12 years when they replace them but due to the high usage of them I don't think they'll make it.

 

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

 

 

Experience BRT firsthand & join the RTA for a ride on @GCRTA's HealthLine this Fri., Oct. 28. More details: https://t.co/vo4EGkC4z2 https://t.co/8xCiA3cuWc

There was an interesting aside yesterday in a (Financial Times?) piece about driver-less automobiles.  It was something like: "Driver-less buses will make municipal transit systems profitable and that will change everything."  That was it, no facts or figures were offered; it's an interesting thought. There are precedents already with the GrandCentral - Times Square shuttle in NYC, airport trams, and such.

 

The unions will object, of course; but ideally municipal transit could probably be almost free for the riders.

 

 

There are already driverless trains out there. The airport subways in many of the airports have been driverless for decades. It could probably be done already

Responded with a new thread here:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,30936.msg824258.html#msg824258

How close was this to actually being an underground subway system?

How close was this to actually being an underground subway system?

 

Very close, but the subway portion was to be limited to Tower City-Playhouse Square. East of Playhouse Square, the rail line would have operated at-grade in the median of Euclid Avenue, similar to how the HealthLine operates today. Each older versions of the plan had more of the rail line in subway, with the oldest plans in the 1920s being all-subway. Some of the 1970s and 1980s plans had roughly a third of the rail line in subway, another third at-grade, and the other third elevated.

 

BTW, today is the eighth anniversary of the HealthLine opening. New buses are needed. The original ones are getting a little raggedy.

The 1993 plan....

 

 

Would Cleveland bus rapid transit work for Indy? Voters can decide

 

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2016/11/06/cleveland-rapid-bus-model-indy-created-6-billion-in-development/93134582/

How close was this to actually being an underground subway system?

 

Very close, but the subway portion was to be limited to Tower City-Playhouse Square. East of Playhouse Square, the rail line would have operated at-grade in the median of Euclid Avenue, similar to how the HealthLine operates today. Each older versions of the plan had more of the rail line in subway, with the oldest plans in the 1920s being all-subway. Some of the 1970s and 1980s plans had roughly a third of the rail line in subway, another third at-grade, and the other third elevated.

 

BTW, today is the eighth anniversary of the HealthLine opening. New buses are needed. The original ones are getting a little raggedy.

 

Yep, and as most transit planners would likely agree, even an at-surface LRT line from PHS to Stokes-Windermere would attract considerably more riders than the current HL as well as encourage higher-density development along the cooridor... As I've said before, someday Cleveland may bite the bullet and convert the HL to LRT... someday.

Would Cleveland bus rapid transit work for Indy? Voters can decide

 

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2016/11/06/cleveland-rapid-bus-model-indy-created-6-billion-in-development/93134582/

 

Nice video; cool music.

How close was this to actually being an underground subway system?

 

Very close, but the subway portion was to be limited to Tower City-Playhouse Square. East of Playhouse Square, the rail line would have operated at-grade in the median of Euclid Avenue, similar to how the HealthLine operates today. Each older versions of the plan had more of the rail line in subway, with the oldest plans in the 1920s being all-subway. Some of the 1970s and 1980s plans had roughly a third of the rail line in subway, another third at-grade, and the other third elevated.

 

BTW, today is the eighth anniversary of the HealthLine opening. New buses are needed. The original ones are getting a little raggedy.

 

Yep, and as most transit planners would likely agree, even an at-surface LRT line from PHS to Stokes-Windermere would attract considerably more riders than the current HL as well as encourage higher-density development along the cooridor... As I've said before, someday Cleveland may bite the bullet and convert the HL to LRT... someday.

 

With the older plans that had the subway going out further than Playhouse Square, would the subway portion go underneath the innerbelt (at Euclid Ave between 24th and 30th)?

With the older plans that had the subway going out further than Playhouse Square, would the subway portion go underneath the innerbelt (at Euclid Ave between 24th and 30th)?

 

Everything post-1980 was planned to be at-grade on Euclid, east of Playhouse Square. The 1970s plan shows a subway on Superior through downtown, a gentle S-curve rising from subway-to-elevated from East 14th-East 21st to reach Chester, and then continue to run elevated (including above the NS railroad) along Chester to East 87th, then return to subway through University Circle below Chester and then Euclid to return to the Red Line alignment at East 120th.

 

All the pre-1960s/70s plans were all subway below Euclid Avenue, from Downtown all the way to University Circle.

I didn't know that... I always thought Cleveland missed a bet by not having a single-pillar, modern type el

-Rapid line between CSU and U.Circle along Chester... outer Chester, from around CSU to E.107 is a newer street, extension highway-ish street (think the OC of it's day) with, even today being an unattractive, spare ped-unfriendly span having a relatively few number of buldings actually facing it... It's just a block north of Euclid and, based on the above, there would likely have been little griping about the noise and unattactiveness of a heavy rail el. And had it been built in the 50s in tandem with the subway lool before you-know-who got busy, well, crowded Hough may jave been saved and the 1966 riots would have never happened and, and ....

 

...back to the Health Line!

Yes, the plan and original schedule was for a 28-minute run time from downtown to Windermere (Red Line takes 19 minutes). Instead, without proof-of-payment and decriminalized penalties for non-payment, the trip is taking 45 minutes. That's why HealthLine ridership is way down and Red Line ridership is up....

 

 

Edited November 30, 20186 yr by KJP

The Healthline was slow even before the fare checking started. Its crazy it's up to 45 minutes now

For the money the Clinic is wading in, they should just subsidize it and make it free.

 

 

How about a dedicated transit line through the heart of UC? Or converting the HealthLine from MLK to downtown to rail by rerouting the Blue Line?

 

 

LOL, maybe the dual hub rapid line proposed long ago was the right answer.

49 minutes ago, urb-a-saurus said:

LOL, maybe the dual hub rapid line proposed long ago was the right answer.

Yes, it was, but a few anti-rail folks killed it.  A shame the voter-approved subway was never built in the 50s when Cleveland was still a "big" city.

 

Edited June 26, 20231 yr by LibertyBlvd

On 6/26/2023 at 1:55 PM, urb-a-saurus said:

LOL, maybe the dual hub rapid line proposed long ago was the right answer.

There’s no “maybe”. The rail version of the Dual Hub was absolutely the right answer. Cleveland would be MUCH better positioned if that project hasn’t been downgraded to BRT. 

'Re-Imagine Euclid Ave.' Study Focuses on Pedestrian Safety, Congestion on University Circle Corridor

https://www.clevescene.com/news/re-imagine-euclid-ave-study-focuses-on-pedestrian-safety-congestion-on-university-circle-corridor-42252483

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they need to actually paint lines on 105th and remove the dedicated turn lane to stokes on Euclid wb.  the street itself causes traffic confusion with a lot of merging.

this is funny 😅

 

RTA has massively degraded the Healthline. They shouldn't even consider it BRT anymore. But hey, the CEO deserved a nice big raise. 

11 minutes ago, freefourur said:

RTA has massively degraded the Healthline. They shouldn't even consider it BRT anymore. But hey, the CEO deserved a nice big raise. 

 

We deserve so much better. Still can't believe she makes more than Chicago's chief. 

well … sadly that was a fair review. 🎃