The Euclid Corridor project is over 200 million dollars. Over 2 billion dollars in economic development dollars will be poured into the Euclid Corridor. Cleveland is the first city in the country (that's right folks) to convert an existing roadway into BRT (Bus Rapid Transit).

 

ALL THIS, and RTA can't afford to spend 1% of its overall budget on marketing and PR? This is a watershed project for RTA to improve ridership! I couldn't agree more with you all....WORLD CLASS SIGNAGE IS NEEDED!

 

I have known about this project for over 2 years, i know many of the people that are behind making this project a reality......and I just found out that Euclid is going to be lined with ornate brickwork the whole way.....from Public Square to CSU!! That is incredible.....why aren't they telling anyone!

^you know what this calls for?

 

WORLD CLASS SIGNAGE!!!!!

 

we have a suicide smiley?

Currently only me and KJP do (that I know of).

But if you use Firefox, you can too.

 

http://www.smileyxtra.co.uk/

Euclid Corridor Construction Alert

East 107th Street to City Limits

 

Permanent lane closures from East 107th Street to East 123rd Street will begin on April 10 pending the completion of utility work.  The westbound two lanes between East 107th Street and Mayfield Road will be closed. Two lanes of traffic in each direction will be maintained through this area using the southern half of Euclid Avenue.

 

Work will also begin in the north lanes of Euclid Avenue between Mayfield Road and East 123rd Street. Traffic in this area will be narrowed to one lane in each direction. 

 

Not sure the expectations people have of Euclid BRT, there's a little publicized, sweet system in Denver they call the Mall Ride or 16th St Shuttle on a street they closed to auto traffic.  It gets a ton of use and only goes like a mile and a half or so but its free.  Here's the Wiki on it:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16th_Street_Mall

How's this for most frivolous gripe ever: why do the buses have to be silver?  Cleveland's streetscape is a really depressingly narrow pallet of gray to beige for about 5 months of the year.  How about some shiny yellow buses?  Something to pop out on the street, not wash out in the winter sky.

how about tie-dyed? Or make them like change color with the temperature. 

 

Strap, good point. We need some more color around here.  God, I'm too ready for this thing to be done. I can't believe that we still have nearly two years to do. I won't know what to do once Euclid is open again.

 

I'm hearing that the Clinic's portion is going to be something to see. Whether or not that's true.. But I saw a third traffic circle on some drawings.

Or make them like change color with the temperature. 

 

Freezy Freaky buses- I dig!  Seriously though, rainy cities in Europe, from London's red double deckers to Amsterdam's bright, often ad-covered trams, seem to have figured this out long ago.  We get silver or dirty white with red sport stripes.  Plus yellow buses would be a subtle reference to the old CTS PCC cars (assuming some of them were yellow like the Shaker ones).

 

I'll be very curious to see the clinic part of Euclid when designs are leaked (hint hint).  As bad as their campus planning has been, I am really hopeful that Cosgrove's interest in design plus the clinic's resources can really start turning things around there.

Or make them like change color with the temperature. 

 

Freezy Freaky buses- I dig!  Seriously though, rainy cities in Europe, from London's red double deckers to Amsterdam's bright, often ad-covered trams, seem to have figured this out long ago.  We get silver or dirty white with red sport stripes.  Plus yellow buses would be a subtle reference to the old CTS PCC cars (assuming some of them were yellow like the Shaker ones).

 

I'll be very curious to see the clinic part of Euclid when designs are leaked (hint hint).  As bad as their campus planning has been, I am really hopeful that Cosgrove's interest in design plus the clinic's resources can really start turning things around there.

 

I think on the shaker trains were colored either yellow and there were a few that were orange. 

I prefer my trains edible

 

Where's that gingerbread LRT?

 

BTW, I was looking at your play list, Musky. In addition to having a great avatar, you have good taste in music. I love Juno Reactor!

Hmmm... Maybe Cleveland Public Art would be interested in running a competition for mobile public art on the buses.

ALL THIS, and RTA can't afford to spend 1% of its overall budget on marketing and PR?

 

Most people I know have no idea about the Euclid corridor project, and if they have heard about it, they are sketchy at best on the details.  My parents were in town a couple of weeks ago (They are from Pittsburgh) so I gave them the tour of the city.  They loved it till I drove them done Euclid.  All they talked about was how depressing it looked and how they thought things were going such much better in Cleveland then Pittsburgh.  Putting up a couple of signs that say, "please pardon our progress" or even sticking a couple in some of the empty buildings on lower Euclid will at least give idea that it is just more then road constructions and paving being done.  I know all the jokes about the Avenue and "world class signage" but most people don't know whats going on around town.  Signs are easy ways of saying, hey, things are changing, for the better.  If I didn't frequent this site, I wouldn't know what is going on around Euclid either...Just my .2 cents.

^Same here. Down at OSU I asked my friend if he knew what they were doing to Euclid. He said no, I just know it has looked like s*** for a long a** time. Then I enlightened him. Signage rally does go a long way. I cringe when I think about how many people have traveled Euclid visiting the Clinic or other UC institutions and think that is what the rest of Cleveland looks like.

how about parking one of the new buses (which is apparently in cleveland now) on public square for the tribe home opener?

 

Actually, the vehicle was in town for a short period of time recently, and RTA had hoped to have it participate in the St. Patrick's Day parade, but the timing of things just didn't work out. At this point, the vehicle is expected back later in the year, and I think you will start seeing public appearances shortly.

 

Oh, and I agree with what's already been stated as far as that PD article -- WHY OH WHY it was necessary for a person with an ultimately positive view of the project to start off with such a negative slant was beyond me. Also, his "one friend" quote smacked of high-school journalism, not serious reporting. Why not just throw in the occasional "sources say" or "unnamed officials" for good measure? Twit...

 

 

fear not.  i know we all hate accountability and progress, and certainly the businesses on Euclid are probably hoping that this project takes another 10 years as business is booming...

 

from the original site:

 

 

I'm all for accountability and one of the things I love about this site is that it helps all of us check our facts.  Both of those timelines you reproduced must have been dependent on funding or planning taking place long before it actually did.  Construction didn't start until late 2005 or early 2006, however, so those timelines don't make a lot of sense. 

 

According to the RTA press release in March 2006 titled "Euclid Avenue Construction Begins" -- "RTA's new Silver Line will be fully operational in late 2008." 

 

Three full years of construction comes close to the original timeline, it's just the start date that was off.  So maybe that's why they say that construction is on schedule.

the one problem i still have is that it is delaying investment in the corridor by not adhering to the stated timeline.  for instance, the south area at playhouse square was supposed to be open in the fall of 2006 (from 2006 documents)...it is still closed.

 

i understand a lot of the issues with a 100 year old road and infrastructure, but i *think* that some of the city waterline/vault work did begin in 2004, but was delayed for some reason. 

 

at the end of the day, i would just like to see everyone working almost everyday, and for longer or double shifts.  i know it adds cost, but this is downtown, and the impact of the construction is far greater imo than a couple of million for increased labor costs (maybe even much less).

 

when there is no work going on when i arrive at work, and no work going on when i leave, i have to wonder what is really going on and if there couldn't be a better/faster/more efficient way to complete key sections.

^^The construction started on time. Utility work had begun in 2004 and the "Transit Zone" (resurfacing of Superior and side streets - think of when the bus only lanes started) was under way later that year.

Look for Cleveland State University in Google Maps, click on the aerial, some in to around Euclid and 24th Street (around Fenn Tower) you can see the utility work being done. Images used in Google Maps are two to five years old.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=cleveland+State+University&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF-8&z=19&ll=41.502194,-81.672243&spn=0.001272,0.002503&t=k&om=1

Sewer work to delay Euclid Corridor

Tuesday, May 08, 2007Sarah HollanderPlain Dealer Reporter

 

...........

Dammit! The PD beat me to it! But my sources told me the delay will be a minimum of six weeks, though RTA says it will be 3-4 months.

the city is going to put an emergency on the contract, most likely will be able to use existing contractors to do the work (same ones already on this section of euclid, and perhaps a few others who have open contracts through a change order), so it would be a win-win, as RTA won't have to worry about paying the contractors delay fees. 

 

my understanding is that this COULD be as short as 2 months, but that the main section that needs replaced on lower euclid is 20 feet below ground - below all of the new gas, sewer, waterlines, etc.  so it could get pretty tricky to get down there, and they may have to rip out some of the work already done. 

 

in addition, the portion between e4 and e9 that is only being relined, will have to be completely dry - meaning pumps and hoses above ground, similar to what they did on e9 last summer when they relined that sewer - and that work took forever.

Maybe while they are down there...they could install a subway system!

Like I said, I've seen subway construction handled better than this REAL SUBWAYS; and for our trouble we get landscaping and friggin' buses.  How can you not know about these old sewers?  Some planner's head needs to roll.

Planners don't inspect and maintain sewer systems.  This is civil engineering work.

The PD didn't get into it as much as my article did (HA HA), but it was lining, or casing of the sanitary sewer that showed serious deterioration. It could not be seen during an inspection from the inside of the sewer. Only when the water main was replaced could crews see what the casing looked like. The water main and sanitary sewer were buried in the same trench (a bad practice, but that's the way they did it in the old days).

 

I hope my article conveys that this sewer project is not as big of a deal as the PD and some forumers here make it out to be. Yeah, it's going to be expensive, but RTA had planned to complete the downtown portion last. They did that just in case something unexpected popped up in the downtown spiderweb of the city's oldest, most complicated infrastructure.

so can anyone explain to me the use of sand, over top the temporary concrete pad?

 

I'm thinking of Euclid, the northern stretch between the square and E. 9th.

if its on the sidewalk, then its the base for brick. Otherwise, I can't really picture it. Maybe they're trying to create the Euclid Beach feel?

if its on the sidewalk, then its the base for brick. Otherwise, I can't really picture it. Maybe they're trying to create the Euclid Beach feel?

 

My understanding a temporary sidewalk was poured just for this stretch, and it was fine, your usual concrete pad. Then they decided to dump sand on it, and its been that way for about about 6-8 weeks.

 

I'm just being annoying joe suburbanite who is getting sick of sandstorms (literally), constantly cleaning my shoes off, and more frequent trips to the dry cleaners.

My understanding a temporary sidewalk was poured just for this stretch, and it was fine, your usual concrete pad. Then they decided to dump sand on it, and its been that way for about about 6-8 weeks.

 

actually, i believe this is the concrete deteriorating into sand.  the mix that was used in this section for a sidewalk was meant to be temporary.  i think the salt and rain has caused it to become sandy on the top.  if you sweep away the sand, you will probably see ruts in the underlying concrete where it came from.

I hope my article conveys that this sewer project is not as big of a deal as the PD and some forumers here make it out to be. Yeah, it's going to be expensive, but RTA had planned to complete the downtown portion last. They did that just in case something unexpected popped up in the downtown spiderweb of the city's oldest, most complicated infrastructure.

 

maybe its not a big deal for RTA, but i think it is a big deal for downtown businesses, workers and residents.  basically, RTA is now saying "don't worry the bus line will open on time and on budget, but the area in front of your store/home/business will be torn up until the summer of 2008." 

 

i find that aspect of it unacceptable.  this is the middle of our city and region.  what few businesses that still remain in this stretch will certainly suffer.  i understand that "things happen" in construction, especially with old infrastructure, but to see this section down to 1 lane in each direction, with no noticeable work going on is aggravating to me. 

 

if you want to get the real story and see if it is a "big deal" i suggest talking to the small businesses in this stretch and see if they think it is OK for the street to be under construction until summer 2008. 

The sidewalk on the southern side of Euclid is so narrow, it could be a mountain-bike trail. And can't they come up with a better way for people to cross Euclid on East 9th? People have to physically enter the traffic lane to get across, and someone is going to get hit.

My understanding a temporary sidewalk was poured just for this stretch, and it was fine, your usual concrete pad. Then they decided to dump sand on it, and its been that way for about about 6-8 weeks.

 

 

actually, i believe this is the concrete deteriorating into sand.  the mix that was used in this section for a sidewalk was meant to be temporary.  i think the salt and rain has caused it to become sandy on the top.  if you sweep away the sand, you will probably see ruts in the underlying concrete where it came from.

 

I've been wondering about the sand as well.  It's at least an inch or so of construction grade sand covering the whole of that sidewalk.  Hard to believe that it could be coming from deteriorating concrete.

yeah, it seemed way too much sand that appeared over night.

 

As for crossing euclid between E4th and 9th, might as well take your life in your own hands(okay, slight exaggeration), with a) no or poor signage and b) a guessing game to where you can get across a construction area every day c) the usual cleveland motorist mentality (you're only a person, and therefore have no right to enter the crosswalk when I'm momentarily stopped at a stop sign)

 

(man i'm really doing a lot of bitching today)

^I think its just Cleveland's way of trying to be more like Phoenix

Until I heard it was an inch thick, I thought it might be for traction in case the temporary concrete was deemed to be a slip hazard....but not an inch thick

so can anyone explain to me the use of sand, over top the temporary concrete pad?

 

I'm thinking of Euclid, the northern stretch between the square and E. 9th.

 

It's more like from the Square to E 4th, and that's actually the sub-base for the granite pavers that will be reinstalled when the sidewalk is replaced. Originally, this was set to happen in July, but with the city's sewer work rearranging RTA's schedule, it may not happen until closer to the end of the year.

 

It wouldn't make sense to put in anything more permanent, as it would just need to be ripped out when the roadbed work is done. Granted, it probably would have been better had they not put the sand in at all, but hindsight is 20/20...

^oh so for the old brown/magenta pavers that used to be on Public Square's Property?

The sand could probably be swept out if it is going to take another few months.

i swear i saw an articulated bus driving around today.

yep.  ECP bus is in town for the next 60 days.  look for it to show up at a cavs or indians home game and on public square, in addition to other media events. 

 

this is the first one built.  the other 19 will be built at the end of the year/ first part of 2008.  they are still tweaking a few things with this one before they go to full production. 

why doesn't RTA advertise this.  I guess its like our issue with not having any "world class" signage.

^could be a dry run to see if there were any unforseen problems

^could be a dry run to see if there were any unforseen problems

 

well the real test will be winter......

Why would calabrese advertise something like this.

 

Again why is calabrese still the boss at RTA-I ask all of you why??

Question- Are they putting in an foundation,so when we actaully build a subway,that we dont have to move anything-like vaults ,sewer, and such. Kinda thinka of the future

Question- Are they putting in an foundation,so when we actaully build a subway,that we dont have to move anything-like vaults ,sewer, and such. Kinda thinka of the future

 

I somehow doubt there will ever be a subway down Euclid.

Question- Are they putting in an foundation,so when we actaully build a subway,that we dont have to move anything-like vaults ,sewer, and such. Kinda thinka of the future

 

I somehow doubt there will ever be a subway down Euclid.

 

Me to, well at least not in the next 10-20. I guess it all depends on what modes of transport are most convienient and affordable and sustainable in the near future.

Question- Are they putting in an foundation,so when we actaully build a subway,that we dont have to move anything-like vaults ,sewer, and such. Kinda thinka of the future

 

in theory, any subway construction would be completed by some sort of boring method, so it would most likely be below all of the existing utilities, and there would be very few disturbances at street level except for station construction, air vents, etc. 

 

i don't think we'll see a subway on euclid though for a long time, and in the near term, i'd rather see significant rail and bus service improvements to other areas of the city.

i don't think we'll see a subway on euclid though for a long time, and in the near term, i'd rather see significant rail and bus service improvements to other areas of the city.

 

I'd like improvements in other areas, too (frankly, I don't know what you mean by bus improvements for I don't see any that really will significanty advance RTA over what it is); but if ECP were developed so the BRT could be converted into a subway at some point, I'd be all for it... Fact is, we as a city really blew it in not developing the dual hub subway...

 

I was in Atlanta last week in the Midtown section of the city's North side - adjacent to the Margaret Mitchell residence/museum.  Here, thanks to Atlanta's leaders' vision, cooperation and guts in building a full Marta subway up its core corridor, svelte Chicago-style high-rise condos are sprouting up everywhere and midtown is developing a Manhattan/Chicago style walking district -- unheard of, previously, in Atlanta -- and remember, Atlanta's population and overall density was less than Cleveland's when MARTA was conceived and executed -- today, the Capital of the South is reaping the benefits while Cleveland,...?

 

Meanwhile, because we lacked such vision and courage in Cleveland, we have BRT and the ridiculous, suburban-like cul-de-sac development around Euclid-Chester and E. 79th -- this area being similar in distance and historical character to Atlanta's Midtown... We still have subway connections into the Rapid, at Huron-Ontario into Tower City, or under the Detroit-Superior Bridge which could someday connect with light rails rising from a subway, around CSU, following ECP's path and using its stations...

 

Sure urbanlife, under the current RTA administration and (at the moment) lukewarm to anti-rail mentality of the City itself, it doesn't seem attainable.  But stranger things have happened and even downtown's office activity is getting stronger by the day... I'll hold out hope that someday, hopefully soon, we can correct the monumental dual-hub failure that led to ECP/BRT, and if current construction can better facilitate a future subway conversion (to rail) of BRT, all the better.