i feel like edsiou thinks you can just find a Model T lying in the junkyard, fill up the gas tank and off you go!

Ah good old ECP...

 

Forgive me if this has been already addressed but there is something that really pushes my red button!

 

It's this whole, chicken/egg argument regarding the ECP.  Does the new street bring people or do people make the new street 'successful'?

 

Let's take the 515 tower for example.  Now I'm not an economist but sometimes I think that might be a good thing.  Ignorance is bliss sometimes, right?

 

Anyways, back on track...

 

We've speculated that the 515 tower construction will not begin until ECP is complete and sometime has been spent studying the feasibility of building the tower, right?  I cannot understand why some developer(s) would not undertake this project while the rest of the street looks like hell so that it's completion can correspond with ECP's completion.  I personally think that a new shiny residential tower straddling this much acclaimed project would do wonders in enhancing the perception that Clevelanders and non-Clevelanders have on Euclid and the Silver Line.  No one is going to think the Silver Line is worthwhile if even fewer storefront exist now that before the project began.  Granted some restoration is underway around E.4th/Euclid but if I were a developer, I'd like my project to be able to use the new Euclid instead of opening another wound and making people wait even longer for a ped-friendly and vehicle-friendly Euclid.

 

Why are people afraid of being the guinea pig?  Haven't we been taught that we have to give a little to get a little? That relates to $$$ too!  It is physically impossible for Euclid to transform itself over night and the majority of people out there are going to think of the ECP as a waste since it will take years for the activity to flourish as we all hope/anticipate.  True visionaries would have ceased the opportunity to create something special a few years ago when Euclid's downtime commenced.  I hope that come next November :roll:  we will see a lot of world class signage on Euclid because NO ONE has the right to b*tch about the ECP not being successful if none of our developers gave it a chance--invested in it's revival.  I hope they all don't sit around waiting for the other person to make the first move becaouse before we know it, poof, we're back to where we started... 

 

Now the 668 Euclid bid package is due tomorrow...What will become of that?

 

God I wish I had money to do something here! 

just a thought, would you think it fun to market the 515 condo tower during the apocalyptic euclid construction phase?

Speaking of that part of Euclid - I was walking by there the other day and noticed the installation of new sewer lines.

Those are big mama's!

Pope, that's the easy way out and an excuse for why the ECP hasn't spurred any new development!  Please don't jump on that bandwagon.  It's 2007 and wonderful 3-D rendering programs exists for people who have no imagination.  If a prospective buyer was that difficult, give them a pretty picture so they can "see" it.  I really doubt they'd have trouble selling units if a couple of our developers and their buddies had multiple projects under construction simultaneously.  Think power in numbers.  I think 515 and a couple other small/mid size projects would fair extremely well if marketed as a neighborhood.  This isn't Phoenix or Vegas where new neighborhoods are born overnight.  This is a once in a lifetime opportunity for Cleveland to take back its Avenue. For Christ's sake, wasn't this once deemed as beautiful or 2nd most beautiful street after the Champs Elysees? We can't look at this as a torn up street who couldn't sell an apple to a hungry man.

 

I hope I'm not being too vicious but the ECP will be a waste if no one invests in it soon.  We can't keep putting things off until tomorrow. I'm not trying to be corny but none of us are guaranteed tomorrow. 

Pope, that's the easy way out and an excuse for why the ECP hasn't spurred any new development!  Please don't jump on that bandwagon.  It's 2007 and wonderful 3-D rendering programs exists for people who have no imagination.  If a prospective buyer was that difficult, give them a pretty picture so they can "see" it.  I really doubt they'd have trouble selling units if a couple of our developers and their buddies had multiple projects under construction simultaneously.  Think power in numbers.  I think 515 and a couple other small/mid size projects would fair extremely well if marketed as a neighborhood. 

 

 

I 100% agree!  You've never written true words!

 

In addition the East 4 Gateway area is abuzz with life.  That's and the Park Building condo's itself is a plus!

Thanks for the nice words! 

 

You're right, E.4TH and a bit of Playhouse Sq. is buzzing with hammers and nails despite the mess. 

I'm just thinking this isn't exactly a slam dunk real estate market in downtown cleveland. (park building, how far are we along?) The last thing you would want as a marketer would be one more thing to discourage sales.

 

(disclaimer, i have never marketed a real estate property in my life)

I'm just thinking this isn't exactly a slam dunk real estate market in downtown cleveland. (park building, how far are we along?) The last thing you would want as a marketer would be one more thing to discourage sales.

 

(disclaimer, i have never marketed a real estate property in my life)

 

thats because nothing has peak the masses interest.  We still need comparable shopping and destination restaurants, hotels, business to mix in with the traditional daytime business.  However, discussing that will take us off topic.

thats because nothing has peak the masses interest. 

 

Don't you mean "piqued"? Just trying to do my part to raise the LQ (Literacy Quotient) around here....

maybe the fastest engines to revive euclid downtown lie a little further east? ie., jumpstart help from csu and univ circle projects like collegetown. make the rest of the street too busy and populated for developers to ignore the downtown stretch. i dk, but if i was a serious developer i would think now is the time to buy low downtown and get in on it.

maybe the fastest engines to revive euclid downtown lie a little further east? ie., jumpstart help from csu and univ circle projects like collegetown. make the rest of the street too busy and populated for developers to ignore the downtown stretch. i dk, but if i was a serious developer i would think now is the time to buy low downtown and get in on it.

 

Hello!  then inturn pass that on to buyers! 

 

I'm probably 95% sure, that if there was a 25-30 story tower in Downtown I would buy a/the penthouse sight unseen.

My point or frustration is directed towards the fact  that very little has been done while the street is under construction, allowing for a huge fanfare opening of the street and other buildings in 2008/9.  We can't blame this construction for everything! Whether it be 515 or CSU's "University Town", why are we waiting until now to start something?  Who's going to walk down Euclid if nothing is there or will be there in 3-5 years?  What is the ECP really connecting?  If it is to be truely successful, it HAS to connect more than Public Sq. and UC.  I must connect all of the intermediate spaces and places to eachother and the rest of the city.  Oh and by the way... Why is everything in this city is 3-5 years away!?  :drunk:

 

 

My point or frustration is directed towards the fact  that very little has been done while the street is under construction, allowing for a huge fanfare opening of the street and other buildings in 2008/9.  We can't blame this construction for everything! Whether it be 515 or CSU's "University Town", why are we waiting until now to start something?  Who's going to walk down Euclid if nothing is there or will be there in 3-5 years?  What is the ECP really connecting?  If it is to be truely successful, it HAS to connect more than Public Sq. and UC.  I must connect all of the intermediate spaces and places to eachother and the rest of the city.  Oh and by the way... Why is everything in this city is 3-5 years away!?  :drunk:

 

 

 

Again, i agree.  I'm at a loss as to why there isn't heavy construction in buildings along Euclid while the area is torn up.  Now if/when developers move in, people are going to say, "why didn't they do it when it was torn up?" or nothing will happen to the atrium or dollar bank buildings and people will rag on the ECP as another project with so many promises gone bad.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!  :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

We all know that's what EVERYONE AND THEIR MOTHERS-including some UO people are going to say!  People are going to look at this as a waste of time and money!  As much as we all love Cleveland, even I'm skeptical of seeing the rate of construction downtown that has occurred in Chicago's South Loop during the past 3-5 years. 

 

Our developers better get their derrieres in motion soon!

Regarding the construction of 515 during EC construction. Another reason is Euclid is the main access road for the site. Now imagine the confusion when you have trucks carrying tons of steel, concrete, rebar, drywall, granite countertops etc trying to negotiate Euclid at East 4th. Not to mention a crane carrying said materials hundreds of feet into the air. above the EC construction workers and the street. The construction would probably take twice as long because of trucks sitting in traffic.

and this is why i'm not an architect or engineer!

Regarding the construction of 515 during EC construction. Another reason is Euclid is the main access road for the site. Now imagine the confusion when you have trucks carrying tons of steel, concrete, rebar, drywall, granite countertops etc trying to negotiate Euclid at East 4th. Not to mention a crane carrying said materials hundreds of feet into the air. above the EC construction workers and the street. The construction would probably take twice as long because of trucks sitting in traffic.

 

where could you do the staging? The logistics would be pretty difficult. I bet that 515 won't happen until 668 gets going. I believe that 668 will be auctioned off this week (sealed bid process).

Hang on a second, everybody. Has it been written someplace, preferably by 515 Euclid's owner, that he/she will begin building a residential tower atop the parking garage when Euclid Corridor's construction is done? If it has, I missed it.

 

Can't we just wait and see what happens rather than argue over if construction of the residential tower should happen now or later? Isn't that up to the developer, the downtown market, the banks, the national economy, the .... You get the point. It's just a bit out of our hands.

Hang on a second, everybody. Has it been written someplace, preferably by 515 Euclid's owner, that he/she will begin building a residential tower atop the parking garage when Euclid Corridor's construction is done? If it has, I missed it.

 

Can't we just wait and see what happens rather than argue over if construction of the residential tower should happen now or later? Isn't that up to the developer, the downtown market, the banks, the national economy, the .... You get the point. It's just a bit out of our hands.

 

I thought MRN owned it. There was an article on downtown housing and one of the owners beign interviewed said "maybe we'll finally build that tower." talking about 515 Euclid. I think they were talking about how the market for housing options in downtown Cleveland was growing and that most of the stuff being built is for the luxury market. They were saying there would need to be something larger that held more moderately priced units.

But did the article say the timing of possible construction had anything to do with Euclid Corridor construction? If it didn't, we ought to be having this debate (as unnecessary as it is) in the 515 Euclid thread, not here.

I just love how quickly we are to spend a developer's money.

^^^I thought a Goldberg (Ohio Savings or whatever it is called now...Am Trust I think) family entity was responsible for 515.

 

Pope, you are a very brave sole (or maybe just thick skinned).  Every time I make that suggestion I get slammed.

I just love how quickly we are to spend a developer's money.

 

What better persons/company's money to hypothetically spend?  :laugh:

we already have a thread for "If i had a $$ dollars......."

 

Okay, continuing back to the euclid corridor...........

 

 

Htsguy, I tell you what, you come up with the millions of dollars necessary to build a 515 tower, and guarantee me a positive ROI, and I'll gladly build you a f-ing taj mahal on that box so grand it'll make bill gates look like a pauper

 

(not directly at you, more of a dear john to the forum)

Pope, thanks for the offer but it looks like MyTwoSense is the one scouting for the penthouse downtown.  Therefore I will just keep my millions in my passbook savings account for the time being.  :-D

^^^I thought a Goldberg (Ohio Savings or whatever it is called now...Am Trust I think) family entity was responsible for 515.

 

Pope, you are a very brave sole (or maybe just thick skinned).  Every time I make that suggestion I get slammed.

You are correct, OSB owns the 515 site. 

Well I guess this is a lose/lose situation here...

 

If we're going to use the coordination of the ECP and a hypothetical 515 or w/e tower as an reason not to build now, then the brand new Euclid Ave. will continue to remain user-unfriendly with construction equipment for new projects.  E. 4th St. didn't stall during this construction.  Maybe we need to outsource to a Chicago contractor to coordinate things since a miniscule 20 story building here would appear to prolong the ECP even longer :roll:

 

W/E, no sense complaining here.

I look at it this way... remember the history of the Warehouse District? I do. I remember when I used to go the (now relocated) Grid on West 9th, and my friends and I would park near these gruesome huge boarded up buildings - they're now known as the Bingham, Marshall Place, Cloak Factory, Worthington Apartments, etc. Although there were a few spots here and there, the Warehouse District still had a grungy foreboding feeling. It then seemed like every other month for several years, another building would get rehabbed - and finally there weren't any more buildings to rehab at all. The market was proven that the Warehouse District was a viable residential area, and so proposals for new construction popped up, notably the Pinnacle and District Park. Some of the rehabbed warehouses are going condo (Water Street for example). Now what's happening over on Euclid near East 4th? See what I mean?

 

If we had Chicago's population, the rehabbing would be at a faster pace to accomodate the influx of residents, which would speed up the market for new construction. When the 515 tower is built, I'm sure that the city will be more than happy to let the builders use East 6th for staging.

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3198.0

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=8209.0

will some new busses be able to run before the ecp is fully completed? like say down to e55th or something like that? or will they have to wait until its fully built out?

will some new busses be able to run before the ecp is fully completed? like say down to e55th or something like that? or will they have to wait until its fully built out?

 

there may be some trial runs with the new buses and i know that they have announced that the existing buses will begin to use the center stations to get people used to them.

 

but, i don't think the actual ECP vehicles will run in the completed portion until the entire system is complete.

1. they haven't been built yet.  rta is testing one bus now (or was) and after all of the modifications are worked out, they will begin manufacturing the other 20.

2. i think rta wants the service to be the real service, so that BRT has a chance, instead of launching BRT to e55 or running the buses without any time savings in some kind of hybrid BRT-lite configuration.

3. i also don't think the prepaid system will be installed before mid 2008 at the earliest, and this is a ket component to the BRT.

has anyone heard any updates on the sponsorship for the Silver Line?

ectp = great bicycling route, though still bumpy through clinic area

 

beautifully smooth cycling down most of euclid - saw the new public space, under the e. 55 bridge, being poured yesterday.  that's going to be a neat, and rather large space that will include landscaping.  anyone know what else is planned for under the bridge - a troll maybe?

i feel like edsiou thinks you can just find a Model T lying in the junkyard, fill up the gas tank and off you go!

[/quote

 

 

Why not if the oil is change ever 3000 miles and if you quickly update the the few things needed updated you can just wiss away.

$600 million!  :-D

 

Shit I can get a space ship built for that much.

I can't wait to go wissing down the road in my Model-T automobile!

ectp = great bicycling route, though still bumpy through clinic area

 

beautifully smooth cycling down most of euclid - saw the new public space, under the e. 55 bridge, being poured yesterday.  that's going to be a neat, and rather large space that will include landscaping.  anyone know what else is planned for under the bridge - a troll maybe?

 

Midtown was trying to raise funds to move The Politician to the southeast corner, but I don't think they were able to - besides it being a bad idea in general.

Eww, I had read they were hoping to put it in a more high-visibility, pedestrian-oriented spot, but I didn't know they meant there. I love public art and would welcome it being more accessible to the public, but personally, I would hate to see that be the signature piece of public art along the corridor.

 

For those of you who haven't seen it (or blocked it from your memory): http://www.the-politician-a-toy.us/.

all these years, I never knew its name.

 

It was generally referred to as "that creepy wheelbarrow thing with the television eyes"

All 20+ tons of it...

 

For some reason, I have a whole bunch of information on the Politician on my desk right at this very moment. I can't imagine why... :-)

Eww again ... my oh my. Well, put a spiral turbine in front of it, k?  :wink:

I really, really love that thing. :)

It's disturbing as hell, but it's sweet.

They should motorize it and program it to periodically lunge out at traffic like a junkyard dog behind a chainlink fence.

I need to rant. I was watching Feagler and Friends last night (OK, I don't have cable and I was too tired to go out like I should have, lol), and they were "discussing" the Euclid Corridor, and one of the panelists - Michael Roberts - said he was afraid businesses would never come back to Euclid Avenue like they were BEFORE the project. What, is he going back in a time machine to 1960?! Where were these dynamic businesses five years ago? As far as I can tell by looking at the faded signs, Euclid Avenue recently had the same kind of businesses as downtown Seville. It's not like the street got torn up and Gucci left. He then went and referenced Erieview, an urban renewal project from the 1950s that didn't work as evidence that this won't work. THAT WAS ALMOST 60 YEARS AGO!!!!!!!!! And these is a STREET! They did the same damn thing in Chagrin Falls, and it sucked for the businesses but Chagrin Falls didn't evaporate!

 

Now, I'm not going to argue this will bus line will change the world, but come on this is a whole new road at an incredible discount. At the very least, think of how nice it will be to drive down our MAIN STREET and not need an ATV!

 

This probably overlaps with the Feagler thread, but I'm just getting fatigued by people bitching about every damn little thing. Just a few months ago, the PD ran a story about businesses getting killed by this road project and they referenced the Halle Building "food court." I wonder if it ever occurred to them that the food was disgusting and the Halle Building has high vacancy because Case didn't move in.

Very well said! Put that in a letter to the editor of the Sun Newspapers and maybe to that other paper in town.

Feagler needs to take a camera crew out and get some footage of the building renovations that are going on (Thanks to Musky for posting some pics here a few days ago).  Don't just sit in the studio and complain.  They need to get off of their rear ends and go take a look for crying out loud...  There's a Barnes and Noble going in.  They aren't going to just throw their money away on an area that's not going to generate business for them. 

 

 

Or sitting in his home in Bay Village decades after he made his choice of either staying in Cleveland and fighting for his city, or fleeing like a Vichy Frenchman in 1940. If he wants to know why the city fell, he need only blame those who fled to Vichy Cleveland -- including himself.

found this little nugget on euclidtransit.org:

 

(Posted: 8.21.07) RTA Operators Begin Vehicle Training for the Euclid Corridor Project on August 27

Weather permitting, on Monday, August 27, RTA Operators will begin training for the Euclid Corridor operations along the median platforms from East 30th to East 55th Street, eastbound for approximately four weeks. Testing will operate between the hours of 10:30am - 2:30pm weekdays and 6:00am - 6:00pm on weekends. A dry run will be conducted Friday, August 24, 2007 from 10:00am - 1:00pm.

 

I'm guessing this means the RTV will be out and about during that time? Could be fun to observe...