^That rear exit/jaywalking move is gonna be a tough one to resist...especially if my destination is in that direction...

that's what I'm saying.  so, what's the deal?

Oh man, sorry to be so dense.  I was thinking just of the shelter building, not the whole platform.  Good question.  It's like "NO JAYWALKING ;)"

That rear exit/jaywalking move is gonna be a tough one to resist...especially if my destination is in that direction...

 

Because you are not supposed to enter or exit the platform at the mid-way point, the height is a bit taller than normal curbs. It is, in fact, built at the same height level as the bus doorways, so walkers and wheelchairs can enter or exit with ease. I think the curb height may discourage some from trying to jaywalk.

1. Why are central platform stations only west of East 14th Street;

2. Why so many stops along the entire route?, and

3. Why not exclusive bus lanes for any portion east of 107th (especially through University Circle)?

 

I got these answers this morning from Mike Schipper, who is heading the project for RTA.

 

1. In the downtown portion of the Project, RTA has to deal with basements and vaults under sidewalks. Space (roadwidth) is definitely an issue.

 

2. The Project reduces the number of stops from 60 (current) to 36, or about one station every 1,500 feet. That is a dramatic decrease, but please note that all buses stop at all stations.

 

3. East of East 107th Street, we need more road capacity to carry the traffic, because we no longer have the parallel streets of Chester and Carnegie. There is no room for a bus-only lane.

Update today from Mike Schipper:

 

The portion of Euclid Avenue from East 17th to East 55th Street still has to be striped, and the cold, wet weather is affecting that. The road will open as soon as the striping is done, perhaps around Thanksgiving.

Because you are not supposed to enter or exit the platform at the mid-way point, the height is a bit taller than normal curbs. It is, in fact, built at the same height level as the bus doorways, so walkers and wheelchairs can enter or exit with ease. I think the curb height may discourage some from trying to jaywalk.

 

Did you have a chance to watch the video on page 32 of this thread?  I'm sure people with mobility issues won't try to hop down from the platform, but I'd bet a fair number of riders will opt for the shortcut and jaywalk if there is no barrier.  Can you see a group of high-schoolers getting off mid-platform and walking all the way down the ramp to the crosswalk?  Seems pretty unlikely to me!

 

Jaywalking is certainly an issue here, but it would seem to me that the simple liability issues for GCRTA of having an open platform on both sides when one side has no reason to be open would be cause enough for them to install rails.  Someone who isn't paying attention could easily mis-step off the back of the platform, right into oncoming traffic.  It's hard for me to believe that no one has thought of this already!

Someone who isn't paying attention could easily mis-step off the back of the platform, right into oncoming traffic.

 

Definitely- especially because the view of oncoming traffic will be obscured by the shelter.

 

Thanks Jerry for the responses to the earlier questions.  I'm still a bit concerned that there are too many stops (especially given that all stops will be made all the time), but given the community pressure Map Boy mentioned, I suppose it was tough to cut it down further.

 

One last question: will there be automated stop announcements (both audio and video) on board the vehicles?

JMasek, please make sure that a response from RTA gets printed in the PD.

 

From the PD's "Letters to the Editor"

 

Pointless Euclid Corridor project has crippled Cleveland

Friday, November 09, 2007

Is the Euclid Corridor project not the most destructive, pointless venture going in Cleveland? How will Clevelanders benefit from this? Because we can take a bus from downtown to University Circle? We can do that now.

 

I have worked downtown for 27 years and have never seen a construction project cripple the city the way this one has. It is next to impossible to walk on Euclid Avenue between Public Square and East Ninth Street, not to mention driving into and around downtown! And all for what? So RTA can make more money?

 

More at cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com/letters/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/opinion/1194601042307530.xml&coll=2

Peggy from Sheffield Village, when was the last time you rode any of RTA's services

Peggy from Sheffield, I don't think you can look at this as just a transportation project to improve travel fropm downtown Cleveland to U Circle.  Updating the transportation aspect of Euclid Avenue was a way to receive a grant for transportation work to do a major infrastructure project that was long overdue.  Replacing those sidewalks that you walk down everyday, beautifying the streetscape along the street, replacing collapsed sewer lines etc.  Euclid was a street full of potholes, deteriorating asphalt, and poorly graded sidewalks.  Do you think Michigan Ave in Chicago would be left to look like Euclid did, never.  A street needs to look beautiful before it is noticed as a grand Avenue.

So RTA can make more money.

 

She clearly has a strong understanding of how RTA operates and what its purpose is.

 

But, i don't necessarily disagree with her assessment of this area.  IMO, the disruption is quite severe, especially in this section.  I really wish RTA would post more information along this corridor about the benefits of the project and the timeline.  I know that the construction changes daily and it is difficult to move signs, but I have encountered numerous people like Peggy who have no idea of what is going on and are negative on top of it.  She certainly is not the only one who thinks like this, and to get Cleveland and RTA to be successful, we need to attract people like this to the city and system.

 

For example, some banners on the side of the construction storage containers, signs hung in some of the empty windows or on the front of buildings (668), perhaps some coordination with National City to add some BRT graphics to their window displays, something hanging on the rotunda building or 1010 or 1011 buildings, etc.  When this project first started there were a lot of small signs that merchants placed in their windows talking about the BRT.  Many of these have disappeared, but surely a few $$ spent to provide the public with information is a no brainer.

 

A more directed marketing effort to explain the disruption for those in the public that don't use RTA, don't check our forums or the RTA website for constant updates is certainly in order, imo.  Especially with the holiday lighting and festivities coming up.

The letter from Sheffield reveals how ignorant the layman is to this project.

The letter from Sheffield reveals how ignorant the layman is to this project.

Correct, but as urbanlife said, RTA really has not done much to talk it up as far as advertising goes.  I really hope they are not using the mentality of if you build it, they will come, because they won't.  I would like to see revenue come off this line for RTA so it could be the model for more BRT in other areas of NE Ohio.

What businesses did we really lose along Euclid and what have we gained and STAND TO GAIN?!  To hell with City Blue, Lady Blue, and the few other shops/restaurants. I'm sorry but you have to give a little to get a little and if RTA did nothing with Euclid, the same people would b*tch about how crappy the street is and how there's no good shopping.  People need to WALK and/or drive their lazy @sses down Euclid (PS to E.55th) and see that the area is changing FOR THE BETTER!  Oh, and yeah, this isn't NYC but we're bigger than Mayberry and a couple street detours aren't crippling the city.  Hell, the congestion is kind of cool.

 

Stupid garce!

JMasek, please make sure that a response from RTA gets printed in the PD.

 

From the PD's "Letters to the Editor" http://www.cleveland.com/letters/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/opinion/1194601042307530.xml&coll=2

 

Pointless Euclid Corridor project has crippled Cleveland

Friday, November 09, 2007

Is the Euclid Corridor project not the most destructive, pointless venture going in Cleveland? How will Clevelanders benefit from this? Because we can take a bus from downtown to University Circle? We can do that now. (edited for space) -- Peggy Moran, Sheffield Village

 

Yes, we are drafting a response, but it would be even more effective if YOU drafted a response. Then, the person who selects which Letters to the Editor get published used will have a choice. If enough people write in, they may even group them together, as they often do on Sunday.

 

I thank you in advance for lobbying on behalf of public transit.

At least the traffic congestion makes it seem like the city is alive.. it's depressing to go downtown on a non-game night and see the empty, lifeless streets.

Re: marketing

 

RTA uses every means, both new and traditional, to convey its messages. However, some people do not read The Plain Dealer, do not subscribe to Sun, shun the computer, hate TV news for its violence, and only listen to CDs while driving in rush hour. There have been times when staffers have even stood at Tower City handing out leaflets with news, and people walk by, upset that we had the audacity to offer them something informative about transit.

 

One of the problems today is that we are all faced with an endless bombardment of messages -- TV, radio, billboards, e-mail, Web sites, newsletters, magazines, phone calls...the list goes on and on and on. The trick is getting people to tune into YOUR messages, and even high-priced ad agencies argue about to that effectively.

 

You can lead a horse to water, but...

 

Your suggestions certainly have merit, but would they prevent letters like this from getting into The Plain Dealer? I do not think so.

>>> Jerome Masek 11/9/2007 2:46 PM >>>

 

I'd bet a fair number of riders will opt for the shortcut and jaywalk if there is no barrier. Can you see a group of high-schoolers getting off mid-platform and walking all the way down the ramp to the crosswalk? Seems pretty unlikely to me! Jaywalking is certainly an issue here, but it would seem to me that the simple liability issues for GCRTA of having an open platform on both sides when one side has no reason to be open would be cause enough for them to install rails. Someone who isn't paying attention could easily mis-step off the back of the platform, right into oncoming traffic. It's hard for me to believe that no one has thought of this already!

 

I will not debate the fact that there is no end to the carelessness of some people. Every day at rail stations, I see passengers STANDING on the yellow stripe at the edge of the platform, like moths drawn to the flame, and stay there as the rail car passes. What are they thinking? I have no idea. I will pass along the idea. I have my own thoughts about its relative value, but I will keep them to myself.

 

Every day, I walk at least twice from Tower City to the Main Office Building on West Sixth Street, and every day, I see at least 20 or 30 people breaking the law. I have even see clueless adults showing their children how to jaywalk.

 

With this kind of utter disregard for the law, it is impossible to ensure total safety in any project.

^ i dk, i dont think its that big a deal. personally, i deal with this kind of situation daily when i get off a bus in ny that stops underneath an "el" subway that runs above your head over the roadway. they let you off in the middle of the street where it could be easy to get hit by a car coming along on the inside/curbside lane. it's dangerous, but you deal. people have to adjust to these kinds of situations, both drivers and disembarking passengers. i worry more when i am "fenced in" in tight transit settings.

 

i also dont see jaywalking as that big a deal. it's petty.

 

^I agree totally...can't deny that I jaywalk a lot (though it's a lot easier on NYC's one-way streets).  I think Map Boy's point was that given RTA's big no jay-walking campaign, you'd think the design would make it a little less tempting, and given the visibility issue, you can imagine some frivolous law suits.

At least the traffic congestion makes it seem like the city is alive.. it's depressing to go downtown on a non-game night and see the empty, lifeless streets.

 

You're just a bundle of enthusiasm.

^I agree totally...can't deny that I jaywalk a lot (though it's a lot easier on NYC's one-way streets).  I think Map Boy's point was that given RTA's big no jay-walking campaign, you'd think the design would make it a little less tempting, and given the visibility issue, you can imagine some frivolous law suits.

 

ah ha, good points. sorry it's friday and i was on public transit all day -- it got to me!

Make the entire space between the station and the curb a pedestrian zone.  Put the onus on the cars to slow down and watch for people.

new shelter for the SW corner of public square is being installed today, wee!

^I agree totally...can't deny that I jaywalk a lot (though it's a lot easier on NYC's one-way streets).  I think Map Boy's point was that given RTA's big no jay-walking campaign, you'd think the design would make it a little less tempting, and given the visibility issue, you can imagine some frivolous law suits.

 

Liability is certainly an issue.  I'm mostly just curious to know if there's a functional reason for leaving an unused side of the platform open.

^I agree totally...can't deny that I jaywalk a lot (though it's a lot easier on NYC's one-way streets).  I think Map Boy's point was that given RTA's big no jay-walking campaign, you'd think the design would make it a little less tempting, and given the visibility issue, you can imagine some frivolous law suits.

 

Liability is certainly an issue.  I'm mostly just curious to know if there's a functional reason for leaving an unused side of the platform open.

 

it seems that it would allow the buses to temporarily operate at different stations or sides of platforms if there were maintenance issues or an accident or something.

http://www.riderta.com/nu_newsroom_releases.asp?listingid=1107

 

A summary of Tuesday's Board Committee meeting has just been posted. It has links to:

 

* A PowerPoint presentation on the Euclid Corridor progress. Nov. 26 is the target date for opening the road from East 17th Street to East 55th Street.

 

* A PowerPoint presentation on the service changes proposed to take effect on Dec 16.

 

* A PowerPoint presentation on the 2008 proposed operating budget.

 

* The budget transmittal letter (actually, it's a book) from the General Manager to the Board.

 

Folks, there is a LOT here to chew on. Enjoy.

Stripes!  Looks like they are painting the last of the stripes in front of CSU right now and moving east.  :clap:

http://www.riderta.com/nu_newsroom_releases.asp?listingid=1108

 

CLEVELAND -- A huge section of Euclid Avenue, from East 17th Street to East 55th Street, will re-open to traffic on Monday, Nov. 26 – almost a year ahead of schedule.

http://www.riderta.com/nu_newsroom_releases.asp?listingid=1108

 

CLEVELAND -- A huge section of Euclid Avenue, from East 17th Street to East 55th Street, will re-open to traffic on Monday, Nov. 26 – almost a year ahead of schedule.

 

so who do we pat on the back for this? construction firm? rta? mother nature? everyone? you?

http://www.riderta.com/nu_newsroom_releases.asp?listingid=1108

 

CLEVELAND -- A huge section of Euclid Avenue, from East 17th Street to East 55th Street, will re-open to traffic on Monday, Nov. 26 – almost a year ahead of schedule.

 

so who do we pat on the back for this? construction firm? rta? mother nature? everyone? you?

 

marketing spin? 

 

according to original construction schedules, much of this area was supposed to be already completed. 

 

i think the big change is that RTA has decided to actually use the bus lanes and the stations earlier than planned, and eliminate any remaining construction barrels, which is certainly good news for everyone.

The prototype of the new Rapid Transit Vehicle (RTV) won the "best vehicle in show" award when the manufacturer, New Flyer Industries of North America, displayed it at the recent Canadian Urban Transit Association (CUTA) fall conference in Quebec City. New Flyer wrote:

 

“Your bus is the absolute hit of the show. Probably a million photos have been taken and RTA is being heralded as a market leader. People have been blown away by how rail-like, streamlined, European and majestic the vehicle appears. We cannot thank you enough for allowing us to display this vehicle."

 

Remember the "First Five" initiative announced back in July? Well, three of the ones that were on the list got state historic tax credits. (Cross posted from another thread.)

 

5 Cleveland projects get $30 million in preservation tax credits

$30 million via state tax breaks aids 5 projects in historic urban buildings

Friday, November 16, 2007

Shaheen Samavati

Plain Dealer Reporter

 

......

One picture is worth a 1,000 words. I wonder which 2,000 words you wanted to say.

Uch, Dick Feagler.

 

Yet another article complaining about the Euclid Corridor Project.  And it's not that I disagree with him completely - I can't see people taking a bus to the theaters or even downtown - but he completely ignores the benefits of street renovation, CSU's expansion onto the property, and whatever good the project will bring.

 

So I sent an email today:

 

"I swear, you're one of those men with those "THE END IS NEAR" signs permanently stapled onto your ass.

Not to mention, you've practically written this article before.

It's really a win win situation for you.  If the project fails, then you get to gloat about it in a few years.  If the project succeeds, then everyone's a winner.

So stop whining, stop bemoaning about how we're not the city we were EIGHTY YEARS AGO, and do something productive and helpful for once.."

 

 

I'm sure he won't reply but I'm just so tired of all this pessimism.  Yeah this city has real issues and I don't see this project making a difference in the short run, but it's the same old crap with Feagler all the time, and it just makes me down.  I'm honestly not all that proud of Cleveland (crime, weather, leadership, ghettos, those horrible schools, infrastructure, lack of real industry, even declining East side suburbs), but I do admire the many attempts to improve it and do believe that in a generation, we will be in a much better situation than now.

Well, I for one am VERY proud of Cleveland. It does piss me off when people like feagler complain about every new idea or project and whine that "It won't work here." We need new ideas and change to progress and get out of this 30 year rut.

 

All the things you mentioned are things all big cities are dealing with. From the decaying sewer pipes under Atlanta, the the dated El trains above Chicago, over to the west coast and LA's over crowded schools, culminating with the crime capital Detroit, all cities are dealing with infrastructure and societal issues, again those are not just a Cleveland thing.

Almost all of the orange barrels are gone this morning between the Innerbelt East 18th and and 30th Streets. Looks good!

Uch, Dick Feagler.

 

Yet another article complaining about the Euclid Corridor Project.  And it's not that I disagree with him completely - I can't see people taking a bus to the theaters or even downtown - but he completely ignores the benefits of street renovation, CSU's expansion onto the property, and whatever good the project will bring.

 

So I sent an email today:

 

"I swear, you're one of those men with those "THE END IS NEAR" signs permanently stapled onto your ass.

Not to mention, you've practically written this article before.

It's really a win win situation for you.  If the project fails, then you get to gloat about it in a few years.  If the project succeeds, then everyone's a winner.

So stop whining, stop bemoaning about how we're not the city we were EIGHTY YEARS AGO, and do something productive and helpful for once.."

 

 

I'm sure he won't reply but I'm just so tired of all this pessimism.  Yeah this city has real issues and I don't see this project making a difference in the short run, but it's the same old crap with Feagler all the time, and it just makes me down.  I'm honestly not all that proud of Cleveland (crime, weather, leadership, ghettos, those horrible schools, infrastructure, lack of real industry, even declining East side suburbs), but I do admire the many attempts to improve it and do believe that in a generation, we will be in a much better situation than now.

 

 

Nobody is going to ride the EC?  If you've ever taken the #6 bus you would know that it's the most crowded bus in the city.  Totally overcrowded.  There will be plenty of riders for the project.  Get a clue Dick.

I mean really, this is just what crusty old people do, they complain about sh!it all the time.  My late grandfather who passed away in the mid 90's was pissed that there was a tax to pay for new baseball and basketball facilities downtown.  What did he think would be a better investment?  A new horsetrack.  God bless him, but he was obviously way off.  I'm assuming Dick just wants a freeway built from the parking lot at the PD to his crappy home in Bay Village, and to hell with the thousands of college students, residents, and commuters that use it daily.  What's so wrong with a government funded upgrade of service on the city's busiest mass transit route?  Really, what is there to complain about?

The above-referenced editorial ...

 

Dick Feagler: Euclid Corridor signifies nothing, and no one will use it

Sunday, November 18, 2007

Dick Feagler, Plain Dealer Columnist

 

St. Louis has its arch. Seattle has its Space Needle. And we've got the Euclid Corridor.

 

These are three worthless things. But the first two became icons for their cities - a piece of the skyline you could put on a stamp.

 

How would you represent the Euclid Corridor on a stamp? A couple of orange barrels and a jackhammer? ...

 

... More at http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1195465163290381.xml&coll=2

Thanks for all your great comments and support.

 

Let's all remember...a column is based on one man's opinion.

 

Too bad for all those readers that is not based on fact.

"Nobody is going to ride the EC?  If you've ever taken the #6 bus you would know that it's the most crowded bus in the city.  Totally overcrowded.  There will be plenty of riders for the project.  Get a clue Dick."

 

 

I meant younger, educated people going downtown for social purposes or for high end jobs, which, from my experience of taking that bus 3 days a week for four months, is not the norm. 

^Just in case it wasn't clear, I'm pretty sure w28th was addressing that to Dick (hence capitalized) Feagler.

 

Wow, where to even begin with that column...

 

Although the Simpsons Monorail episode does come to mind.

 

I'm sure Euclid Corridor ridership will be high and will grow as UC, Downtown and Midtown develop (and I'm a fan of it), but one fact that will certainly impact the impressions of most suburban residents is the fact that it doesn't pierce the suburbs at all (excluding East Cleveland)- it will never offer the one seat ride from suburb to city destination as the dual hub would have.

Crain's did their "Big Issue" this week with the Euclid Corridor Project as the topic. Note the woman who happens to be the only naysayer - she's standing in front of Lola saying "Legacy, Crocker Park, no one's going to come downtown". If she's going to make ignorant comments on camera, the least she could do is get her roots done. :roll:

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20071119/MULTI/71116034/1107

"^Just in case it wasn't clear, I'm pretty sure w28th was addressing that to Dick (hence capitalized) Feagler."

 

Oh, I thought w28 was calling me a dick, lol

Crain's did their "Big Issue" this week with the Euclid Corridor Project as the topic. Note the woman who happens to be the only naysayer - she's standing in front of Lola saying "Legacy, Crocker Park, no one's going to come downtown". If she's going to make ignorant comments on camera, the least she could do is get her roots done. :roll:

 

That woman's face looks like it got friendly with the business end of a shovel.

The letter I sent to Feagler...

 

Mr. Feagler,

 

Hello, I'm a college student at the Levin College of Urban Affairs at Cleveland State University.  The reason that I am writing you is in response to your op-ed in The Plain Dealer this past Sunday.  I don't know why a man in your position has to constantly bash anything that the city does.  You have the power to help change the perpetual "woe is us" view that the local media has portrayed for years, however it appears that is not on your (or The Plain Dealer's) agenda. 

 

The days of going downtown along Euclid Ave. and spending the whole day downtown to shop left with the population that fled to the suburbs a long time ago, a population of which you are are a part of.  I know that you realize that.  Your readers also know  this, since you have written about "your" memories of downtown time and time again. I am not part of that generation.  I was born after the steel mills left the city, and I am glad that I did not witness the fall of manufacturing in Cleveland.  If I was born earlier, I might have ended up having the same Cleveland bashing opinions as you.  However, my opinion of Cleveland, along with many in my generation, are completely opposite of yours. In my opinion, Cleveland is becoming positioned as a medical mecca with each passing day, and this is undoubtedly Cleveland's future.  Biotech firm start ups in the region is proof of this, as is the amount of venture capital in biotech firms in the region (totaling over $600 million over the last 5 years).  On the same token, Cleveland's past as a manufacturing center will help in the luring and creation of advanced manufacturing companies.

 

The Euclid Corridor Project is far from being "worthless", as you have called it.  I'm sure you know of the amount of investments that have been made in University Circle ($2 billion and counting), along with the amount of investments that are being made downtown currently in the pipeline ($168 million for the Euclid Corridor Project, Bob Stark's $1 billion dollar Warehouse District development, $250 million Avenue District development, Wolstein's $400 million East Bank project, $450 million dollar convention center, the Medical Mart, and other miscellaneous projects totaling over $2 billion in investments in downtown).  These investments will change the face of the city for years to come, and will spur spin-off investments downtown which will include retail (how about that, something you might remember downtown Mr. Feagler). 

 

Why, would you call investing in our main street, "worthless"?  What statistics, Mr. Feagler, did you read into before writing your "worthless" opinion, which can affect the opinions of your readers before the project is even completed?  In fact, what statistics were you refering to when you stated that "nobody will ride it", when the Euclid bus is the most used in Cleveland?  I would hope that you would not judge the project before completion, with investments which will be generated in the short and long-term, since this project will be with us for years to come.  However, you have shown the perpetual mindset of Clevelanders from another era- when steel mills ruled.  Sorry, but those days are over, and they aren't comming back.     

 

The only thing that should be considered "worthless" would be the opinons of those who love to sling dirt on the city that they once cared for.  The fact that the Plain Dealer publishes these opinions continually is part of the reason I barely read this news publication anymore.  I would rather not feel bad about this city, which has so much potential.  I'm sure that the Plain Dealer's declining readership feels the same.