^ Well said.

"^Just in case it wasn't clear, I'm pretty sure w28th was addressing that to Dick (hence capitalized) Feagler."

 

Oh, I thought w28 was calling me a dick, lol

 

Nope, talking to Feagler.  Fortunately with his name being what it is, it probably saves bandwidth.

actually i thought the #6 - Euclid wasn't the number one bus in the city, could be wrong.

Good follow-up, Oldmanladyluck. Let us know if you get a response (unlikely).

 

In other (better) EC news - Tipoff:

 

Nuts for planters:

 

Look for some quirky, curvaceous planters next summer along Euclid Avenue, from Public Square to Playhouse Square. Artist Mark Reigelman delighted the Cleveland City Planning Commission Friday with his design for about 120 concrete planters. The Downtown Cleveland Alliance will raise $500,000 to install the conical, 500-pound pieces. Their leaning, swirled design looks like the wrapping around a bouquet of flowers. Cleveland Institute of Art grad Reigelman, now living in New York, infuses his work with humor.

 

During Friday's meeting, Reigelman drew hoots with a display of previous work - an RTA bus shelter that he wallpapered and outfitted with a table and two chairs. He titled it "Home Sweet Home."

Cool.  And a pretty neat website for the designer: http://www.reigelman.com/

I hate to say it, but in some respects, Dick Feagler has outgrown his usefulness.  He really doesn't have a clue about how transit projects like the Euclid Corridor are helping revitalize urban cores in many US cities.  True, most other cities are going with streetcars or light rail, but these hybrid buses may end up working just as well, particularly with our snowy winters.  My dad recalls the streetcar days and says it wasn't uncommon for snow on the streets to get packed into ice and cause a streetcar to derail every now and then. 

 

It's easy to sit back and criticize, it's entirely another thing to get off your rear end and take a look at the building renovations that are already occurring along the corridor. 

 

A monorail would look positively ugly along Euclid Ave, not to mention separate people from the street.  And who's going to ride it?  ME!

actually i thought the #6 - Euclid wasn't the number one bus in the city, could be wrong.

 

The #326 is the bus route with the highest ridership. That will certainly change next month when it's split back into separate east-side (#3) and west-side (#26) routes.

^If the ridership is so high, why split it up?  Isn't a packed bus a good thing for the financial performance of a bus route?

Not if its full rush-hour runs from one side of the have to run empty all the way to the other side of town. It doesn't make sense to run so many buses across town like that. By halving the route, it should cut way down on the vehicle service hours.

 

Another benefit is that the length of the 326 route often means that when a bus hits a bunch of traffic lights in a row, it starts running late. Thus it starts to pick up some of the passengers that would have been getting on the next bus. So the first bus gets even later and gets more crowded, while the next bus is nearly empty, catches up to the first and sometimes passes it. So, you may be waiting for a bus that's supposed to come every 25 minutes and instead two buses show up after waiting for 50 minutes!

Whoops... guess I was wrong about the #6!! 

Whoops... guess I was wrong about the #6!! 

 

well considering that Feagler doesn't even know a bus runs up and down euclid in the first place, I doubt he'll call you on that.

So I wrote a letter too:

 

 

 

Mr. Feagler:

 

Your views on public transportation concern me, and I wish you'd reconsider your position. I would like to invite you to take the bus or the Rapid more regularly. If you'd like, I'd take you on a public transportation tour.

 

I will grant you one point: People do not use public transportation as they should. Some people don't eat as they should, either. Just because people make certain decisions doesn't mean they are right. I think part of the problem is that people in Cleveland don't understand how powerful and useful public transportation can be. They didn't grow up with it like people in New York City. Despite this, I believe we can get more people riding public transportation with the advocacy of an influential person such as yourself. What could be so bad about saving some money on gas and parking fees? And think of the environment. Every little bit helps.

 

Need some ideas on how to take advantage of RTA when you own and DRIVE a car?

 

    * I live in Lakewood and regularly take the 55X bus from my apartment to get downtown, as well as the Red Line to get to the East Side. Just two weeks ago, I woke up on a Saturday and thought: "Wow, it'd be nice to go the art museum today." I made a day of it! I took the train to the University Circle stop, had lunch in Little Italy, read a magazine -- RELAXED! -- then walked over to the art museum. What a nice day I had! I could have driven my car, but I decided I didn't want to burn the gas, and it was much easier than paying for parking.

    * I work in the Theater District, and occasionally I'll be invited to drinks over in the Warehouse District. Rather than moving my car, I just hop on one of the downtown trolleys. A free ride and I don't get ripped off by those expensive lots over there.

    * Recently I went to an event on the eastern edge of the CSU campus. I work on Euclid but the walk was far and it was cold, yet not worth getting my car out of the deck and fooling with that. I jumped on the 6 bus (soon to be Euclid Corridor bus) and rode it for six or seven minutes and got off. No big deal. Did the same thing to get back to work.

    * One of my co-workers lives in Euclid with his family. When he and his wife come downtown for evening events and they'd like to have a drink, they take the bus into downtown and then a taxi home at the end of the night. These are regular middle-class people with cars. For them, taking the bus just makes sense. They are using public transit to suit their needs.

 

Mr. Feagler, I just ask that you consider some other points of view on this topic. If you'd like, I'd be happy to take you on a "Motorist's Tour of RTA." Let's think of ways to make this a better place.

 

 

Three well intentioned response letters with different techniques.  Bad cop-good cop.  With Feagler it is not likely to matter.  As Eparabola mentioned, he already did a form of this gripe before.  He phoned this piece in to collect his duty.  I'm sure he heard it from ECTP defenders the first time around, and subsequently ignored them the first time around.  Writing to him I think is a lost cause.  Writing the PD and asking them to fire his ass is not.  Cancel your subscription and tell them why; if you don't have a subscription, tell them you'll subscribe once they get rid of him!

Throwing my hat into the mix, here's my letter to the PD, as well as numerous other parties (because Feagler's comments were SO far out of line):

 

Thank you, Mr. Feagler.

 

Thank you for marginalizing the interests of myself and others like me, who see the Euclid Corridor Project for what it is: one important piece in the revitalization of

an otherwise downtrodden, left-for-dead neighborhood.

 

Thank you for trivializing an institution like the Rock Hall, that is, regardless of your ill-found opinion, a highly recognizable landmark on our lakeshore.

 

Thank you for misunderstanding the significance of a major piece of construction that can help to transform a zone of urban blight back into the burgeoning corridor it once was.

 

Thank you for misrepresenting the situation of an increasing number of young (and not-so-young) people like myself, who CHOOSE to use public transportation, including the current bus along Euclid Avenue, because it suits our needs and saves us money that can be better spent on things that matter, like Orchestra tickets or membership to the Art Museum. I'll also remember your words the next time I catch a #6 bus to give blood over at the Red Cross -- apparently, I'm "nobody".

 

Thank you for perpetuating the elitist, separatist, and borderline racist attitude that continues to act as a divide in our urban fabric far wider than the Cuyahoga Valley could ever be. "People who need buses", indeed -- why not just come right out and refer to them as "those people", the culture you consider as somehow subhuman and therefore undeserving of consideration?

 

Thank you for countering a (forgive the pun) concrete, physical improvement with a pie-in-the-sky speculation like a monorail, well after the majority of the physical improvements to the Avenue have been completed -- come late to parties much?

 

Thank you for expressing your outright ignorance -- it makes you that much easier to ignore.

 

Anyone care to make a friendly wager on which of these, if any, wind up getting printed? :-D Personally, I'd love to see a collective op-ed piece featuring commentary from all of us...

FYI, all of your comments have been shared with RTA GM Joe Calabrese, Euclid Corridor boss Mike Schipper, and Media Relations Manager Chad Self. I have been told (second-hand) that at least one letter to the editor (rebuttal) may be used on Sunday.

Joe Calabese will speak about the Euclid Corridor Project on TV-3 Sunday, Nov. 25, with Tom Beres, in his weekly segment, "Between the Lines."

 

Joe will also make media appearances on Monday morning, Nov. 26, as RTA opens the roadway in front of Tower City, and begins the #6 route, serving the center median strip, from East 17th to East 55th Streets.

 

RTA has scheduled two informational meetings about the Dec. 16 service changes. They will be on Dec. 6, at noon and 4:30 p.m., at the Main Office Building, 1240 W. Sixth St.

 

A public hearing on the proposed 2008 budget will be held at the Dec. 4 Board meeting, with adoption slated for the Dec. 18 Board meeting.

I meant younger, educated people going downtown for social purposes or for high end jobs, which, from my experience of taking that bus 3 days a week for four months, is not the norm. 

 

This is why you build quality transit like the Silver Line.  Better, roomier, faster buses along a corridor that has piqued developers' investment interest, you will attract new riders.  The "old" Euclid Corridor was slow, inefficient, along a beat up street, through a "no man's land" between downtown and the Cleveland Clinic/University Circle.

 

The Silver Line is changing the equation significantly.  This is what people like Feagler are incapable of grasping. 

"Better, roomier, faster buses along a corridor that has piqued developers' investment interest, you will attract new riders."

 

Just to play devil's advocate for a bit....

 

But where do/will these new riders live?  I can't see that many professionals living around that area (thinking between E105 and E30) due to the inexcusably poor school system, underreported crime (can you imagine how many daily stolen cars and bikes there must be), and benefits of suburban life, unless the improved street is truly enough incentive for many businesses to move and form all around the street, which might gentrify the area.  But there is so much vast bad area there, and who really wants to live near one of those abandoned Chester factories...

 

Have there been similar projects with other cities in similar situations with proven success?

 

Okay, all through playing devil's advocate.  Personally I'm of the opinion that something is better than nothing, and at the very least, the street will be better to travel on and cosmetically more attractive.  I'm not yet sold on the buses, but I'm obviously hopeful.

Thank you for perpetuating the elitist, separatist, and borderline racist attitude that continues to act as a divide in our urban fabric far wider than the Cuyahoga Valley could ever be.

 

Borderline?

Eparabola, why do professionals have to live along the Euclid Corridor? Why can't people from all walks of life? If that's the case and there's no reason why it wouldn't be, are you aware that only one-fourth of all households in the U.S. and in Ohio have school-age children? For those few households that do have children, are you also aware that there are some good schools in Cleveland?

 

Yes, crime is an issue -- just as it was in post-riot Hough in the 1970s and 1980s. That area was in incredibly poor shape, with many bombed-out building, kids playing in illegal dumps, rampant hookers, drugs and violence. I drive through there today and can't recognize it compared to how it used to be. It's still a troubled neighborhood, but it's light years better than what it was. Why? Because enough people cared.

 

Sometimes we act like we can't fix cities and neighborhoods -- as if their conditions are acts of God. They aren't. They're conditions wrought by humans and only humans can fix them. The Euclid Corridor Improvement Project is one piece of the puzzle. What we do to assemble the rest of the pieces will take bravery, risk-taking, money, vision, hope and selflessnes.

KJP:  Excellent comments. 

 

Perhaps on a more basic level, I think the EC is going to attract a lot of new riders from existing areas-- primarily downtown, Cleveland State, all the condos near the Cleveland Clinic (as well as the Clinic itself), and University Circle.  Why?  Because  old Euclid Avenue was in such poor shape-- rough street, slow buses with no light timing whatsoever-- that people who are otherwise driving between these points down Chester or Carnegie (emphasis on between, not driving to from elsewhere)  will now choose the bus because it will be faster and more comfortable. 

 

Also, I think you're going to get a lot of people (like me) boarding the Red Line from the west of downtown to get to University Circle and Little Italy.  The University Circle RTA stop is a bit of a hike along a wide and busy street and even though there are sidewalks, it's not an enjoyable walk because of the traffic and noise.  The walk to Little Italy from the stop is much more enjoyable, but for many (not me) it's a bit long. 

 

With the Silver Line, people can connect from Tower City and get a faster, more comfortable ride to University Circle that eliminates a substantial portion of the walk from the RTA stop.  All the museums and Little Italy are closer to the Silver Line than than the Red Line. 

 

I live in Berea, and I can assure you, I will be going to UC and Little Italy more often once the Silver Line is up and running.  I will probably also make stops to/from to the new Barnes & Noble and other shops by Cleveland State, to Gallucci's, etc.  I'm even contemplating taking the Red Line to Tower City, and connecting to the Silver Line to go to Severance Hall and Playhouse Square.

 

As more development occurs along Euclid, there will be more places to go which will attract still more riders. 

 

Just my 2 cents...

Perhaps on a more basic level, I think the EC is going to attract a lot of new riders from existing areas-- primarily downtown, Cleveland State.

 

Agreed.  I often want to head down to Terminal Tower, but in the winter it isn't exactly "walk friendly"  The silver line would make it a different story.

Thank you for perpetuating the elitist, separatist, and borderline racist attitude that continues to act as a divide in our urban fabric far wider than the Cuyahoga Valley could ever be.

 

Borderline?

 

Okay, so I reined myself in a little bit...  :-P I wanted to give him a little wiggle room/rope to hang himself with...

underreported crime (can you imagine how many daily stolen cars and bikes there must be)

 

C'mon, stop the fearmongering... I can "imagine" anything, that doesn't make it real.

 

who really wants to live near one of those abandoned Chester factories...

 

Based on the number of residential conversion projects happening in the area, there appears to be some interest.

 

Have there been similar projects with other cities in similar situations with proven success?

 

We can either satisfy those who want us to take risks, or those who want us to go with proven solutions, but not both...

Log on now and register your comments!

 

Cleveland.com posted a Plain Dealer story about the barrels coming off of Euclid Avenue, and it attracted a ton of comments -- many totally uniformed -- about the Euclid Corridor Project.

 

We are planning to weigh in, and so can you. It would be great to have several voices there to help offset the writers who don't have a clue.

 

Thanks.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2007/11/part_of_the_euclid_corridor_is.html

JMasek, does RTA have any pictures of Euclid Avenue in say 2002? Maybe you all could do a before and after to show all the naysayers.

JMasek, does RTA have any pictures of Euclid Avenue in say 2002? Maybe you all could do a before and after to show all the naysayers.

 

I also hope (easy for me to say, I'm not doing the work), that someone is keeping track of direct investment in the Silverline pedestrian watershed. (i.e. jobs, housing, etc.)

Re: The Silver Line

 

There are (at least) two ways to measure benefits.

 

1). The project itself generated more than $100 million in construction contracts. More than 90 percent of those went to local companies.

 

2.) The Downtown Cleveland Alliance, a strong supporter of the project, has been, and still is, tracking the value of past and current construction along the Corridor. That total is now well over $2 BILLION.

 

Other cities already want what Cleveland has. Once the Project is fully operational, you can expect to see many national media outlets and transit officials from other cities visiting here.

 

Perhaps we should hire Dick Feagler as a tour guide (tongue planted firmly in cheek).

Is there a seperate organization or group that is dedicated to the development of Euclid Ave following the completion of the Silver Line?

To the best of my knowledge, no. That being said, the existing community groups along that route (Historic Gateway Neighborhood, Downtown Cleveland Alliance, Midtown, Fairfax Renaissance, University Circle, Inc.) all have revitalization strategies for their respective sections of Euclid, many of which are already gaining steam. It also looks like a lot of citywide efforts are focusing attention toward catalyzing revitalization efforts along the corridor, including the city's First Five intiative.

I took a walk on my lunch, and very much enjoyed what's up and running. The construction has been a pain in the you know what, but it's shaping up nicely :)

 

2.) The Downtown Cleveland Alliance, a strong supporter of the project, has been, and still is, tracking the value of past and current construction along the Corridor. That total is now well over $2 BILLION.

 

I want to be sure I understand what makes up that $2 billion number.  Is it all construction that has occurred/is occurring because of the Silver Line or does it include some development that would have been done anyway (like the Art Museum expansion and the Cleveland Clinic Heart Center)?

 

 

Brownie points for anyone who shares their first-hand experience riding the #6 through the completed ECP portion, and extra credit for any photos.

Brownie points for anyone who shares their first-hand experience riding the #6 through the completed ECP portion, and extra credit for any photos.

 

Does a Caddy count as a bus here? :)

 

 

Is there a seperate organization or group that is dedicated to the development of Euclid Ave following the completion of the Silver Line?

 

At this time, there is none that I know of. There are many local development corporations along the Corridor, and RTA is working with each one to coordinate planning. Many have altered their master plans to take full advantage of the Corridor timetable.

 

A partial list:

 

1. Downtown Cleveland Alliance

2. Playhouse Square Foundation

3. Cleveland State University, which is part of the bigger St. Vincent Quadrangle

4. Midtown Cleveland

5. University Circle Inc.

6. The Cleveland Clinic

7. There are others...I do not have a full list at my desk

The Downtown Cleveland Alliance is tracking the value of past and current construction along the Corridor. That total is now well over $2 BILLION.

What makes up that $2 billion number.  Is it all construction that has occurred/is occurring because of the Silver Line or does it include some development that would have been done anyway (like the Art Museum expansion and the Cleveland Clinic Heart Center)?

 

I believe it is all construction. All growth benefits the Corridor, and all growth will benefit from the Silver Line.

I rode the 6 down Euclid yesterday afternoon to Mayfield and was very impressed with how much quicker the ride is even with just a portion of the route in operation.  And other than the light poles being top heavy and leaning just the slightest bit (I'm assuming this happened because the poles were originally going to be made of steel, but were revised to be fiber glass and the pole isn't strong enough to support the heavy top) I was pretty impressed with how everything was put together.

Operationally, I think some of the drivers were confused about where they should line up the front door at the stations.  Eastbound, the driver stopped with the front door outside of the station, while the rear door lined up with the station, forcing the waiting riders to walk out of the protective shelter and onto the bus.  Westbound the driver got it right, stopping the front door at the station and allowing exiting passengers to get out at the rear and walk down the ramp to crosswalks.  However, many people getting off the bus simply ignored the crosswalks and jumped off the platform in the middle of the street to cross Euclid.  A problem Mayday or Mapboy pointed out a couple weeks ago.  Railings may look like a good idea from what I saw.

But, with this being very early in the running of the system, I thought it went very well, and will probably allow RTA to work out the kinks before coming fully operational.  And really, other than there being no rails, it will definetly feel like riding a tram in Rome or Amsterdam.  I for one am looking forward to the final product and what sort of development this will spur along the route.  Sky is the limit in my opinio.

^Cool- can't wait to ride this thing and for the finished product.  And thanks, M2O, for the photos (half a brownie point for the caddie shot).

Haha when I saw the 6 bus around 9:45 on Tuesday morning it was in the normal lane by CSU.

Rode the six this morning out to University Circle for work, and really enjoyed the open part.  It felt really good to go through the intersections and the cars were stopped, and that sections works really well.  I also noticed the recorded voice announcing the stops. 

 

Some areas to work out, but I think that'll happen as the drivers get more used to it and the new busses get rolled out...

Operationally, I think some of the drivers were confused about where they should line up the front door at the stations. 

 

Thanks for your comments. Operators have been trained to line up the front door with some colored bricks outside the covered station, for those entering the bus. The back door of the bus is then lined up with the opening to the station, and those leaving the bus can go through the station and down to the crosswalk. It will be the same with the new vehicles, which are 23 feet longer. They will also have a back door on the side of the station closest to the crosswalks.

 

Monday and Tuesday, I worked a station for three rush hours, and saw my share of jaywalkers. I also saw an entire group of CSU students use the crosswalk when the bus had a green light. This held up traffic. The question is: do they care? If people do not care about their safety and the safety of others, they will walk when they want to, where they want to.

 

Which is why RTA is forced into the unpopular ticket-writing scenario. Think about it. If you were told that the State Patrol was on strike, and you had to drive from Cleveland to Columbus in good weather, how fast would you go? 80mph? 90 mph? The only reason some people obey the speed limit is fear of tickets. So will it be for the Corridor. That's just reality.

 

And even then, every time you are caught speeding, it probably represents 20-30 times when you were speeding and not caught.

 

Stop signs, traffic signals and speed limits are all traffic-control devices to increase safety. So are crosswalk signs.

Sounds a little strange that folks waiting for the bus have to exit the shelter to board the bus, but then can exit the bus right into a shelter, but I guess it won't matter once people can enter via the rear doors (once POP arrives).

Sounds a little strange that folks waiting for the bus have to exit the shelter to board the bus, but then can exit the bus right into a shelter, but I guess it won't matter once people can enter via the rear doors (once POP arrives).

 

They are stations, not shelters.

 

You are correct. It won't matter much when all doors open and people can enter and exit.

Operationally, I think some of the drivers were confused about where they should line up the front door at the stations. 

 

Thanks for your comments. Operators have been trained to line up the front door with some colored bricks outside the covered station, for those entering the bus. The back door of the bus is then lined up with the opening to the station, and those leaving the bus can go through the station and down to the crosswalk. It will be the same with the new vehicles, which are 23 feet longer. They will also have a back door on the side of the station closest to the crosswalks.

 

Monday and Tuesday, I worked a station for three rush hours, and saw my share of jaywalkers. I also saw an entire group of CSU students use the crosswalk when the bus had a green light. This held up traffic. The question is: do they care? If people do not care about their safety and the safety of others, they will walk when they want to, where they want to.

 

Which is why RTA is forced into the unpopular ticket-writing scenario. Think about it. If you were told that the State Patrol was on strike, and you had to drive from Cleveland to Columbus in good weather, how fast would you go? 80mph? 90 mph? The only reason some people obey the speed limit is fear of tickets. So will it be for the Corridor. That's just reality.

 

And even then, every time you are caught speeding, it probably represents 20-30 times when you were speeding and not caught.

 

Stop signs, traffic signals and speed limits are all traffic-control devices to increase safety. So are crosswalk signs.

 

Maybe beating a dead horse, but railings would have worked just fine.

Maybe beating a dead horse, but railings would have worked just fine.

 

Especially if electrodes bearing 10,000 volts were applied to said railings!

<<Maybe beating a dead horse, but railings would have worked just fine.>>

 

(Inserting my opinion here). Hindsight is often 20-20. But, how much should RTA pay for protecting people who are bent on breaking the law, no matter what? Railings might help people from accidentally falling into the street, but it would not stop the jaywalkers...they would just duck under the rail and be gone...or jump over it. It would have to be some kind of solid structure, or else a fence with holes so small a human could not get through. Then of course, there is the vandalism factor.

 

In designing the project, many things were considered and then changed or discarded. I do not know if railings were ever considered. I have now spent six hours standing at a station watching human behavior, and I am not convinced that railings would be anything but an eyesore. However, your input and interest are appreciated.

^we can use the old pieces of Ameritrust to create railing!

 

Anyone wanna go photoshop happy with "tub" railing?

I agree railings would be an eyesore.  I do think that flanking the entire station loading/unloading area with a crosswalk "zone" and putting the onus on drivers to look for people crossing to get back and forth to the station could make sense.  It is supposed to be a pedestrian friendly corridor, afterall.

 

Was that considered?

I agree railings would be an eyesore.  I do think that flanking the entire station loading/unloading area with a crosswalk "zone" and putting the onus on drivers to look for people crossing to get back and forth to the station could make sense.  It is supposed to be a pedestrian-friendly corridor, afterall. Was that considered?

 

As I said, I do not know all the things that were considered. Euclid Avenue is also US Route 20, and cars and pedestrians must co-exist. I believe in personal responsibility. There is nothing that any agency can do to guarantee that all drivers and pedestrians will obey the laws. Make a good faith effort to inform them of the law, and then it is up to them to obey or face the consequences.

I think something like what is pictured below would work on the Corridor. Its not much, but I think it would go a long way to preventing people from jumping into the street.

 

I'm no expert at this, but from what I've seen in the past with situations like this what normally will happen is the first time a passenger is struck and killed by a passing car and its all over the news, within the week GCRTA will be installing railing all along Euclid. Usually something tragic must happen for action to be taken.