Who cares, let's just tear down everything so we can have nice open fields surrounded by chain link fence.  That would be nice.

 

If it were up to you w28, NYC would still be a city of tenements.  Why not tear it down and build something of use to the city instead of an empty, gutted building?

Besides the historic preservation and sustainability issues..

 

In Cleveland, its usually a lot cheaper to rehab a building than tear it down, remediate the land underneath and build anew. Costs would likely kill any new construction at this site.

Who cares, let's just tear down everything so we can have nice open fields surrounded by chain link fence.  That would be nice.

 

If it were up to you w28, NYC would still be a city of tenements.  Why not tear it down and build something of use to the city instead of an empty, gutted building?

 

Thanks for revealing your total inability to grasp local development tendencies k2stae.  If you haven't noticed there are blocks upon blocks of empty land surrounding the parcel in question that didn't magically sprout new development after buildings were knocked down to create a barren wasteland.

By the way:

 

EUCLID CORRIDOR CONSTRUCTION ALERT - EUCLID/EAST 86TH - EAST 107TH TRAFFIC CHANGES AND CLOSURES

 

Beginning January 15, 2008, reconstruction work will begin between East 86th and East 107th Street. The following areas will be affected until August 2008:

 

-    Two-way traffic will be maintained between East 86th and East 87th;

 

-    From East 87th to East 89th one-way traffic will be maintained WESTBOUND;

 

-    Cleveland Clinic Main Entrance will be accessible via East 93rd;

 

-    Euclid Avenue and all side streets leading into Euclid Avenue will be CLOSED to through traffic from East 89th to East 97th;

 

-    One way Euclid Avenue traffic will be maintained EASTBOUND from East 97th to East 107th;

 

-    East 89th NORTHBOUND traffic lane will be CLOSED to through traffic. SOUTHBOUND traffic will have access to Euclid Avenue;

 

-   The WESTBOUND Euclid Avenue traffic from the East side will be detoured to Chester Avenue at Martin Luther King Blvd.  Traffic will travel along Chester

    Avenue to bypass the construction.  The detour will direct traffic to East 89th for access to Euclid Avenue;

 

-   The EASTBOUND Euclid Avenue traffic will be detoured North on East 87th.  Traffic will follow Chester Avenue to East 97th where it will regain access to

     Euclid Avenue.

 

 

Has RTA published or considered publishing a map/graphic that actually shows the access to Euclid in this area?  The descriptions seem pretty cryptic and kind of hard to follow.

 

I also don't understand the 6 re-route posted in the news release.  Is there a typo somewhere or how does this bus get to euclid and chester?

 

#6 Euclid

 

Eastbound: Regular route to Euclid-E. 87th, then left on E. 87th, right on Chester, right on E. 97th, and left on Euclid to regular route.

 

Westbound: Regular route to Euclid-Chester, then right on Chester, left on E. 89th, and right on Euclid to regular route.

^?  Euclid and Chester intersect at University Circle...so the bus switches to Chester there, and then back to Euclid west of Cleveland Clinic.

Has RTA published or considered publishing a map/graphic that actually shows the access to Euclid in this area?  The descriptions seem pretty cryptic and kind of hard to follow.

 

One step ahead of ya... map has been posted on the Riders' Alert page for the announcement in question, which is at http://www.riderta.com/nu_ridersalerts_list.asp?listingid=980. What was referenced previously was text from the media announcement.

 

Look for more extensive use of maps (especially interactive Google maps, as opposed to static graphics) on the site in the future, since a picture is worth a thousand words and all...

Who cares, let's just tear down everything so we can have nice open fields surrounded by chain link fence.  That would be nice.

 

If it were up to you w28, NYC would still be a city of tenements.  Why not tear it down and build something of use to the city instead of an empty, gutted building?

 

Thanks for revealing your total inability to grasp local development tendencies k2stae.  If you haven't noticed there are blocks upon blocks of empty land surrounding the parcel in question that didn't magically sprout new development after buildings were knocked down to create a barren wasteland.

 

Need I remind anyone of the gentrification that occurred in the South Bronx in NYC under the guise of "urban renewal"? Just tearing things down without any kind of a concrete (or even ephemeral) idea of "what's next" is a recipe for disaster.

^^ By the way JMasek... do you have any idea when they are going to divert traffic to the newley finished section between PS and E9th?  I noticed street sweepers going by the last couple of days so I am assuming this is happening soon.  I am just anxious to see the rest of the delapitated section of euclid disapear, so work will really pick up on the north side.

 

Just announced on euclidtransit.org within the last ten minutes, "weather permitting... (as of January 18) all Eastbound traffic will be moved to the south side of the road on the new pavement from Public Square to East 9th Street as construction progresses to the North side of Euclid."

 

As I look out my window whilst posting this, I see a dusting of snow on the ground, so the weather may or may not be "permitting" over the next few days, but it's in the working stages...

^Hooray... as of 3pm traffic has officially been diverted onto the completed side of euclid between PS and E.9th.  Now let the destruction of the last portion of that crappy street commence.

The south east quadrant of E.9th and Euclid has been reduced to a dump truck full of rubble... 1 step closer.

Euclid Corridor Construction Alerts - Permanent Lane Closures/Traffic Patterns Change from Stokes Boulevard - Mayfield Road

 

Weather permitting, permanent lane closures from Stokes Boulevard to Mayfield Road will begin Jan. 29.  The south lanes of Euclid Avenue between Stokes and Mayfield will close.  Two lanes of traffic will be maintained in each direction utilizing the north half of Euclid Avenue. Be prepared for lane shifts when approaching this area. 

 

For more information, contact the project office at 216-771-4144.

Just a suggestion - I know that this may not even be RTA's domain but the partially-closed sidewalks and particularly the crosswalks along Euclid between Public Square and East 6th could REALLY use more salt/ice removal. I doubt that the contractors can be bothered to do it, but it would really go a long way in making some goodwill. It's bad enough construction has re-routed people, but to allow that re-route to be treacherous as well? Businesses and clients are being inconvenienced, so at the very least I think they'd applaud an effort to make the detours as accessible as possible.

 

As it is, there are patches of ice all over the intersection of East 4th and Euclid, and the sidewalks on the south side of the street are only cleared wide enough for ONE person - not in each direction, ONE person at a time in ONE direction. A little detail, but a big huge pain in the @ss that wouldn't and shouldn't take much to fix. Again, I (and plenty of people on this forum) know that the end results will be worth it, but I can't say the same for the thousands of people who only see the ECP's construction as a detriment.

I know that this may not even be RTA's domain but the partially-closed sidewalks and particularly the crosswalks along Euclid between Public Square and East 6th could REALLY use more salt/ice removal.

 

Thanks for the note. I have passed it along to the Corridor team. We work closely with the City of Cleveland, and I am sure that someone will address this issue.

 

(personal opinion follows) On a related note, that of walking downtown, have you noticed that this is late January, and some downtown merchants/building owners have not yet discovered how to shovel snow? I am surprised and disappointed that the local media have not taken people to task for this. Why should I go into your store for goods and services if you cannot make the effort to clean your sidewalk? The answer is..I don't...but I do have to pass your store to reach my destination. When the weather is bad, I fall back (no pun intended) on the only two options left to me -- riding the trolleys as much as possible, and walking in the street.

I believe the onus is on the building owners and the lesser-informed may think that since they pay into DCA that they no longer need to do snow removal.

In case people think I'm exaggerating - those dark areas that aren't snow-covered? Black ice - sorry, but this is unacceptable and if people aren't grumbling enough about ECP, this just gives them a lot more ammo:

 

 

 

MayDay, you would never exaggerate.

This little tidbit was in the PD: http://www.cleveland.com/tipoff/index.ssf?/base/opinion/1201340056221760.xml&coll=2&thispage=2

 

Look for the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority to announce a new name for the Euclid Corridor line. RTA has been working on selling naming rights. More than one corporate sponsor could be involved, and the Cleveland Clinic is one.

 

Great. They're expert at keeping the main artery flowing.

^Wait, naming the whole line?  Not just stations???  I don't know about that...

 

Since we're on the subject of snow removal and RTA (this may be better suited for the other RTA thread), I have a gripe about RTA's bus stops.  I understand if the every minor curbside stop along a bus route isn't cleared, but when you can't get off a bus at Superior & Ontario without stepping in a crusty, dirty mound of ice-snow, that's unacceptable.  As I've said on here before, I'm a young, mobile guy.  I see older riders and other mobility impaired customers trying to get out in conditions like this and I just cringe.  The question: is RTA responsible for clearing snow from its bus stops?

i was on the bus today in ny and out of geeky boredom took a couple pics of the "accordian" in the middle of the articulated bus.

 

the new ecp busses will be something like this.

 

 

if you stand on the round middle plate here you get spun a bit when the bus goes around the corner  :laugh:

 

 

*** that is all    :wink:  ***

^Ha, the MTA wishes!  Happily, the ECP buses, though articulated, will be a million times better (in bus terms): low floor, cleaner burning, automated stop announcements, etc.  Granted, there's only so much you can do with a bus.  I very much appreciate those shots- I'm mysteriously drawn to the accordion seats every time I get on one these guys, even though they are a little higher and don't have windows.

<<The question: is RTA responsible for clearing snow from its bus stops?>>

 

RTA serves 8,557 bus stops. All bus stops are on sidewalks that are cared for by municipal governments. So, no, RTA is not responsible. If RTA had to hire staff to clear snow from all those bus stops, it would become a non-issue, because there would be little no money left in the budget to pay the salaries of bus operators

<<Granted, there's only so much you can do with a bus.>>

 

Although you may call them buses, we call them Rapid Transit Vehicles (RTVs).

<<The question: is RTA responsible for clearing snow from its bus stops?>>

 

RTA serves 8,557 bus stops. All bus stops are on sidewalks that are cared for by municipal governments. So, no, RTA is not responsible. If RTA had to hire staff to clear snow from all those bus stops, it would become a non-issue, because there would be little no money left in the budget to pay the salaries of bus operators

 

Sorry to take this off topic and if this has been asked and answered before, accept my apologies.

 

Jerry, What about Green/Blue Line stations?  Is that an RTA issue or should I be calling a department in Shaker Hts. or Cleveland?  Coventry and Drexmore have had inconsistent service.

"All bus stops are on sidewalks that are cared for by municipal governments. So, no, RTA is not responsible."

 

Fine, but since Euclid Avenue (streets *and* sidewalks) have been commandeered by RTA and the construction crews, it would behoove RTA to remedy this. Access to businesses is naturally going to be hampered by construction and while there might be grumbling, people expect that. However, when snow/ice makes it even worse - and it certainly has - why wouldn't RTA want to make some effort? There's plenty of ill will about the ECP being a "boondoggle" and making downtown a mess - allowing the construction site to be snow/ice covered is just more ammo for the naysayers, especially with the notion that "it's not OUR problem". If even that is beyond RTA's capacity, perhaps some sort of collaboration with the Downtown Cleveland Alliance?

 

 

 

 

 

I agree Mayday especially about the Euclid Ave. areas downtown.  It sounds like "not our responsibility" is translated to a "not our problem" attitude.  I think if people cant get on or off the bus, or around your detours, it should kindof become your problem, even if it just means the bus driver reporting these situations to the proper authorities, or coordinating with the proper entities, for example the Downtown Alliance as Mayday said..         

I'm not saying that RTA should (or could) ensure that every bus stop be pristine - but with ECP, it's a whole different animal. They've commandeered the street but aren't willing to help maintain passable walkways for pedestrians? That's a way to drum up support - not!

OTOH, the pix Mayday snapped of icy/snowy sidewalks are no different than 98% of the time in non-construction zones.  Having traveled a lot for work in the past few years, I really think the city does a pretty rotten job generally speaking in keeping the sidewalks clean/clear in bad weather compared to other cities.  I'm always amazed when I go to NY in the winter and see women in dressy shoes/heels walking around. You could never do that here, you're taking your life in your hands. 

 

there are city ordinances that require building owners to clear sidewalk and public areas in front of their buildings in the CBD.  i've never seen this enforced (like many other things that are against the law or required), but perhaps some attention to city council, with appropriate pics, would get the ball moving as well from an enforcement perspective.

 

we need more downtown business owners and residents to take an "ownership" attitude, follow the laws, do the right thing, etc.  Taking the easy way out and saying "its not my problem" or "its always been done this way", isn't going to get our downtown neighborhood to the level that we expect and deserve.

 

Actually, all property owners, regardless of location or city, are required to keep the sidewalks through their properties clear of snow and ice. If they don't and the city does, then the city can assess the property owners for the cost of keeping sidewalks clear. Problem is, cities don't enforce the law.

Here is one of the ordinances:

 

507.13    Clearing Sidewalks of Snow and Debris

 

Every owner, occupant or person having charge of any tenement, building, lot or land fronting on any avenue, street, alley or other public highway of the City, shall clear the whole sidewalk in front of the tenement, building, lot or land, of snow and ice, before 9:00 a.m. of each day; provided, that if the sidewalk in front of the tenement, building, lot or land is not flagged or paved, a pathway thereon shall be cleared of ice and snow to the width of at least five feet. If from any cause it is impossible to remove all the snow and ice which may adhere to such sidewalk, then every such owner, occupant or person having charge shall cover the snow or ice as shall so remain with such coating of ashes, sand or other substance as may be necessary to render travel safe and convenient. Every owner, occupant or person having charge of any tenement, building, lot or land fronting upon any avenue, street, alley or other public highway of the City, shall keep the entire width of the sidewalk, from curb to lot line, free and clear of all earth, sand, brick, stone, rubbish, dead trees and dead branches of trees, or other material which from any cause whatever has accumulated or may accumulate upon the sidewalk above the established grade of the same, and shall also cut and remove from the sidewalk between the lot and curb line, all weeds, grass and vegetable growths that are more than four inches in height. If the owner of any building, lot or land fails to comply with the provisions of this section, then the Director of Public Service may remove the snow, ice, earth, sand, brick, stone, rubbish, dead trees or dead branches of trees, or other material, weeds, grass and vegetable growths, from the sidewalk in front of the premises of such owner, and may charge the expense thereof to such owner. If upon being notified, he fails to pay the City the amount of such expense, then the amount may be certified by the proper City officer to the County Auditor, and the same shall act as a lien upon the property of such owner, and shall be collected as provided for in the case of special assessments.

 

***

 

since RTA has temporary construction easements in this area, it seems that they are actually controlling this section of street, and may therefore be responsible to provide a 5 foot cleared walkway or providing sand or ashes for 5 feet of sidewalk.

"before 9am" doesn't do much for you when you get to work at 7:15. Yes, I come in early but our start time here is 8 or 8:30 depending on your job.  I don't know anyone who doesn't have to be at work until 9.

OTOH, the pix Mayday snapped of icy/snowy sidewalks are no different than 98% of the time in non-construction zones.  Having traveled a lot for work in the past few years, I really think the city does a pretty rotten job generally speaking in keeping the sidewalks clean/clear in bad weather compared to other cities.  I'm always amazed when I go to NY in the winter and see women in dressy shoes/heels walking around. You could never do that here, you're taking your life in your hands. 

 

 

I'm disagree, living in both places, NYC doesn't get the snow Cleveland does.  You cannot compare the two.  I haven't had to wear boots once in NYC, yet when I'm in Cleveland, it's clearly winter and I dress appropriately for it.  I think the downtown ambassadors have done an amazing job - big thanks guys - compared to years prior to '06.

Actually, all property owners, regardless of location or city, are required to keep the sidewalks through their properties clear of snow and ice. If they don't and the city does, then the city can assess the property owners for the cost of keeping sidewalks clear. Problem is, cities don't enforce the law.

 

This is the perfect time to start to call/email/write your council person.

 

we need more downtown business owners and residents to take an "ownership" attitude, follow the laws, do the right thing, etc.  Taking the easy way out and saying "its not my problem" or "its always been done this way", isn't going to get our downtown neighborhood to the level that we expect and deserve.

 

 

AMEN!  AMEN!  Post of the day.  I know over here on Shaker Sq. that because of the foot traffic the apartment buildings/condos on the Morelands, Van Aken & Shaker blvd. are out clearing immediately.  As of lately I've noticed Larchmere and Buckeye doing much better at clearing store fronts.  The are knows that people need & WANT to walk to the square without any hassles so they get out there and clear things up immediately.  Downtown should be no different

This is in response to several earlier postings.

 

The original question...is RTA responsible for snow removal at bus stops? My answer was no. Then the issue kind of morphed into a Euclid Corridor question, and some I never addressed that.

 

There is a multi-page agreement with the City of Cleveland that details all areas of responsibility when the project is complete. Because we are in a gray area of being half-complete, I am not sure of the answer. However, I will check and get back to you.

 

The stations along Euclid Avenue are certainly much different than your average bus stop/bus shelter in a residential area.

 

On light rail:

 

RTA cleans snow from the platforms and shelters. RTA contracts with the City of Shaker Heights to plow snow on certain roadways and sidewalks, and plow the parking areas, at those stations that have parking areas.

 

On heavy rail:

RTA staff and equipment clear snow on the parking lots, sidewalk and platform areas.

Jerry, another Euclid Avenue question, that may or may not really be something RTA is involved with:  some very prominent highway directional signs were recently erected on lower Euclid Avenue.  Do you know if these signs were imposed by ODOT?  Given the relatively low traffic volume Euclid is to carry when the BRT lanes are operational, the importance of maintaining the streetscape in top form, and some obvious alternatives (like posting these only at the 9th Street intersection), these signs have irked a bunch of folks.  Any info from the project team would be much appreciated.

^I will check. Virtually all "green" signs are under ODOT's umbrella. Euclid Avenue is a federal highway, which is also their area. I am sure there are books of rules for how and where signs are to be hung.

FYI...

 

Euclid Corridor Construction Alerts - E. 6th Street Closure begins January 31, 2008

 

Please be advised that on Thursday, January 31, 2008 traffic patterns will be altered at E. 6th/Euclid Avenue.  E. 6th Street will be completely closed to through traffic on Euclid Avenue.  Closure will be only during the daytime working hours.  Normal two lane traffic will be restored in the evenings and weekends.  When half intersection closure is necessary for pavement installation, traffic will be restored to one lane Northbound only.  For more information, please contact the project office at (216) 771-4144.

On March 2, RTA plans to open the segment of Euclid Avenue from East 55th to East 86th Street. That means that all buses will use the stations in the median strip (not the curbside stations), and customers will be asked to use the crosswalks to reach the median stations.

Huzzah for Cleveland!!

Some PD multimedia of construction scenes along the Euclid Corridor, from Public Square to CSU....

 

http://videos.cleveland.com/plain-dealer/2008/02/the_euclid_corridor_project.html

A little update from comments about the ECP from the Plain Dealer:

 

EDIT: And an interesting rendering??

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/architecture/2008/02/_euclid_avenue_is_changing.html

 

Euclid Avenue: a transformation in the making

Posted by Steven Litt/Plain Dealer Architecture Critic February 10, 2008 00:00AM

Categories: Architecture

 

.......

 

Euclid Corridor project helps drive $4 billion in Cleveland development

 

by Steven Litt / Plain Dealer Architecture Critic

Sunday February 10, 2008, 12:00 AM

 

Amid all the bad news about Cleveland's economy, one big, positive number is sure to impress all but the most hardened cynics: $4.3 billion. That's how much fresh investment -- conservatively speaking -- is being poured into the four-mile-long strip of land flanking Euclid Avenue, the city's Main Street, between Public Square and University Circle.

 

...........

 

http://www.cleveland.com/news/index.ssf/2008/02/euclid_corridor_project_helps.html

 

I had no idea that Eli Mann wanted to add 8 stories to one of his buildings. Even though some projects downtown are larger than Mann's I am the most excited about his. Euclid between E 9th and E 12th is the worst part of downtown.

 

 

 

Chris Stephens/The Plain Dealer. A completed section of the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority's $200 million Euclid Corridor project shows how the street -- once dilapidated -- has been significantly freshened.

 

.......

 

http://www.cleveland.com/news/index.ssf/2008/02/euclid_corridor_project_helps.html

STOP THE PRESSES!  Something good about Cleveland was on cleveland.com?? UNPOSSIBLE

I still got a very "This is happening?? In CLEVELAND??" kinda vibe from the article. They tried, though.

STOP THE PRESSES!  Something good about Cleveland was on cleveland.com?? UNPOSSIBLE

:roll: :roll: :roll:

I still got a very "This is happening?? In CLEVELAND??" kinda vibe from the article. They tried, though.

:roll: :wink:

I still got a very "This is happening?? In CLEVELAND??" kinda vibe from the article. They tried, though.

 

yeah maybe, hey its the peedee. but i am choosing to revel in the overall rare show of optimism instead.  :wink:

 

litt did a fantastic job laying it all out in a one article. wow. i'm shocked that he scooped uo with the mann addition....and perhaps more?  :-o

 

cool pic of euc with the shadows over the construction  :clap:

 

 

Yay! Finally a positive and accurate article from the PD on urban revitalization and transit in Cleveland! And Litt gave broad-brush coverage of all the redevelopment going on. He didn't even get into a full description of all that's going on with CSU College Town or the stuff emerging in University Circle -- including along the Red Line.

I love how all of the comments on the article were complaining about how none of it was true at all.  It never ceases to amaze me the masses of idiots on cleveland.com that love to just piss and moan about the city.

 

Whatever.  Go Cleveland!

Okay, don't kill me ... I know this is probably somewhere buried in this thread, but I'm not seeing it. Can anyone provide me with an updated timeline for the ECP? I'm holding an event in mid-May at Levin and am particularly interested in how much of the downtown work will be done by that time. Thanks.