Does the October completion date include landscaping, street furniture, public art and the like, or is that the date to get the road in and the BRT running?

 

I wanted to re-ask this question, as it got lost in the terminal/station flap.

Silver Line was a cool name.  Health Line sounds like something you dial, not something you ride.

Silver Line was a cool name.  Health Line sounds like something you dial, not something you ride.

 

yeah, but at least the sponsorship gives an extra set of eyes/funds to make sure it stays nice.  Plus I bet the hospitals will promote public transporation much more.  That's why I have no problem with the sponsorship....least it's not the "Progressive Line"...man I'd kill myself...

not sure anyone posted this, but the CSU Cauldron wrote a retrospective of the construction  of the ECTP

 

http://media.www.csucauldron.com/media/storage/paper516/news/2008/04/28/Feature/Euclid.Corridor.Project-3355266.shtml

 

The blew it with this:

However, since the project is nearing the end and the project is designed to provide better parking for businesses than before, business owners are taking advantage.

not sure anyone posted this, but the CSU Cauldron wrote a retrospective of the construction  of the ECTP

 

http://media.www.csucauldron.com/media/storage/paper516/news/2008/04/28/Feature/Euclid.Corridor.Project-3355266.shtml

 

 

I guess I was spoiled by working for (and reading) the Daily Kent Stater - the article reads like it was by a news anchor for Channel 19 :roll:

not sure anyone posted this, but the CSU Cauldron wrote a retrospective of the construction  of the ECTP

 

http://media.www.csucauldron.com/media/storage/paper516/news/2008/04/28/Feature/Euclid.Corridor.Project-3355266.shtml

 

 

I guess I was spoiled by working for (and reading) the Daily Kent Stater - the article reads like it was by a news anchor for Channel 19 :roll:

 

Comparing it to Channel 19 would be flattering the article.

A Cleveland State Business Student said, "Just as I got used to driving this way, I have to get used to driving another way all over as well as finding other detours. This is very aggravating."

 

Now that is a display of journalism talent...

A Cleveland State Business Student said, "Just as I got used to driving this way, I have to get used to driving another way all over as well as finding other detours. This is very aggravating."

 

Now that is a display of journalism talent...

 

methinks said Business student should get a little cheese with his whine... or else has to realize that sometimes, the real world doesn't revolve around you and your (real or imagined) "needs", and you might have to make temporary adjustments... here's a novel idea, instead of "getting used to driving another way", try getting on a bus or train, or (egads!) walking if your destination is close...

Silver Line was a cool name.  Health Line sounds like something you dial, not something you ride.

 

yeah, but at least the sponsorship gives an extra set of eyes/funds to make sure it stays nice.  Plus I bet the hospitals will promote public transporation much more.  That's why I have no problem with the sponsorship....least it's not the "Progressive Line"...man I'd kill myself...

 

LOL, Murray, good point! 

Does the October completion date include landscaping, street furniture, public art and the like, or is that the date to get the road in and the BRT running?

 

Grand opening is set for the weekend of Oct. 25, 2008. Anytime there is a $200+ million project, there will be minor punchlist items that may be unresolved for a while, but our goal is to have all orange barrels gone, and as much other work done as possible.

 

Because of the magnitude of the grand opening, and the national attention it will bring to Cleveland, we had to set the date now and start planning. When there are smaller events, such as the opening of a rail station, we set the date about a month before the work is done. Everything on the project is "full speed ahead," but things like the weather, etc. can never be predicted.

Wow .. semantics, man. "Terminals" is another word for "stations".

 

I may seem like a small thing to you, but RTA operates lots of facilities, so terminology helps us pinpoint what you are commenting on.

* Bus stops are signs on telephone poles.

* Bus shelters are small structures at bus stops. Euclid Avenue used to have bus stops and bus shelters.

* Stations refer to rail stations and to BRT stations along Euclid Corridor. When referring to BRT, "think rail."

 

On another note (and someone else pointed this out to me), the construction work is being done on the Euclid Corridor Project. HealthLine is the name of the route that will operate, once the project is completed. People are already mixing the two terms, as in asking "when will the HealthLine be done?"

""why not have the RTA vehicles on the interior the whole way?"

 

Euclid Avenue in East Cleveland was re-done several years ago, and it would be a poor use of tax dollars to rip up new pavement. So, the Rapid Transit Vehicles (RTVs) will move from median pick-up to curbside pick-up.

"Will be signal prioritization even where there is curbside operation?  I hope so."

 

Checking now with the project staff.

Any updates on the RTA transit center that was to be built beside the CSU Convocation Center?

 

There should be a presentation to the Board in the near future. No other details at this time.

:clap:"Observation #2: RTA now brings about 75% of my department to work downtown every day, up from about 25% last year.  Even folks from Lorain and Medina Cos."

 

Pete, does your employer offer Commuter Advantage? If not, they may want to consider it.

Pete asked: "Is RTA going to record sound, along with the video when they put surveillance equipment on all of the buses? The idea that Big Brother could be listening might deter drivers from saying inappropriate things, like the time I heard a driver on the Shaker Square circulator say that she'd "never date a guy that rides RTA."

 

Yes. The visual and audio on all trolleys has been recorded since Day 1.

I believe I have answered all the questions posed so far. Sorry, I missed a few days.

Don't worry Jerry. We'll come up with more!  :-D

"Will be signal prioritization even where there is curbside operation?  I hope so."

 

Yes, our staff says.

Do you have an estimate for when the E. 12/Euclid intersection will be finished and the sidewalk will be open from there to Playhouse Square?

Do you have an estimate for when the E. 12/Euclid intersection will be finished and the sidewalk will be open from there to Playhouse Square?

 

The permit for a construction zone in that area runs through August. The work may be done well ahead of that, but at this time, we cannot say. Work progresses daily. Thanks for your interest.

:clap: I am taking off a few days of "well-deserved" vacation, and if I so much as look at a PC, my better half will threaten me with severe bodily harm. Post your questions, and either JetDog or I will address them asap. Bye. :wave:

Enjoy!

I salute your vacation with this image (from general photos):

 

Officials will kick off the opening of the East Cleveland leg of the Euclid Corridor Project at 2 p.m. today.

 

The $200 million project is creating a state-of-the-art transit system from East Cleveland through downtown Cleveland, RTA spokesman Chad Self said in a news release.

 

Officials claim $4.3 billion in adjacent development has happened since the project began.

 

The work will be completed in October.

 

The project's unveiling will be at the Windemere rapid station, 14223 Euclid Ave.

I've heard that October 25th is the day that the entire line will open. Maybe this has already been mentioned.

 

 

"Officials will kick off the opening of the East Cleveland leg of the Euclid Corridor Project at 2 p.m. today."

 

What exactly does that mean?  Are the new buses running now?

"Officials will kick off the opening of the East Cleveland leg of the Euclid Corridor Project at 2 p.m. today."

 

What exactly does that mean?  Are the new buses running now?

 

Today's ceremony is a ribbon-cutting for completion of the East Cleveland construction, which largely consists of the curbside station placements and associated utilities for the signal prioritization. The RTVs will be running on or about the October 25 "substantial completion" date.

oh, very cool.  Congratulations RTA

Does anyone really think the Euclid Corridor project will improve Euxlid Avenue as much as predicted?  I think RTA was given way too much authority here.  Allowing just one lane for cars, limited parking/loading zones, and preventing left turns into businesses and parking lots is not going to help.  Two lanes with center left turn lane would have been the way to go.  Busses were fine on the right like every other street in the city.

 

A new road and new buildings will certainly help, but bus stations in the middle of the road will do little/nothing for any business on that street.  I think the whole Euclid Avenue road project could have been done for half the cost.

Does anyone really think the Euclid Corridor project will improve Euxlid Avenue as much as predicted?  I think RTA was given way too much authority here.  Allowing just one lane for cars, limited parking/loading zones, and preventing left turns into businesses and parking lots is not going to help.  Two lanes with center left turn lane would have been the way to go.  Busses were fine on the right like every other street in the city.

 

A new road and new buildings will certainly help, but bus stations in the middle of the road will do little/nothing for any business on that street.  I think the whole Euclid Avenue road project could have been done for half the cost.

 

This isn't meant to be mean, but if you read up thread you'll know why the avenue was reconstructed that way it is.

 

The biggest and smartest thing THE CITY is create legislation that insists that new buildings be right up to the sidewalk (street) and that there ARE NO PARKING LOTS street side and add bike lanes.

 

It encourages walking, ride and pedestrian activities on Euclid.

 

This isn't simply RTA running the show this is a huge undertaking on all levels, public and private.

 

Do you plan on using the line? 

Have you been out on the partion that is currently open?

I don't even want to ask, which will please MayDay  :wink:, why you think it could have been done for "half the cost".

^Eagleguy...I don't mean to be rude since you are new here... but this thread now runs 50 pages...all you need to do is go back and read many of the hundreds of posts to obtain the different opinions of the Euclid Corridor by the members of this board rather than everybody rehashing...the posts also offer overwhelming factual details about the project and what RTA hopes to achieve...my gut feeling, however, from the tone of your post is that you really don't care what others think.

I salute your vacation with this image (from general photos):

 

Pope, that is like the coolest image ever.

I was hoping for a summary of why middle-of-the-road bus stops spur development.  Didn't have time to read 50 pages.  I ride RTA everyday and support it, but they are only a small part of revitalizing any area, not a catalyst.  I'll read up on this post soon.

 

htsguy - If I didn't care, I would not have asked.

RTA isn't the catalyst. 

 

EUCLID AVENUE ITSELF IS THE CATALYST.

 

Please, read the previous posts, that include up to date and current information from RTA about the project.

 

Have you been to the ECTP website?

Eaglefan (yappi? jj ?),

 

Euclid Ave is long and diverse stretch. The vast majority of Euclid does not depend on vehicular traffic to support retail and restaurant business. Therefore, I don't see how the new configuration hurts it. In downtown, the majority of business is fed by pedestrians walking from work or school or from some parking garage.  I agree that the no-left turn rule is a bit heavy handed.

 

I also think that the lay person doesn't understand too well how much the ECTP has already done for Cleveland. A lot of things have been set in motion that most don't know about.

 

I also think that the lay person doesn't understand too well how much the ECTP has already done for Cleveland. A lot of things have been set in motion that most don't know about.

 

And thanks to certain media in this town, they never will.

I was hoping for a summary of why middle-of-the-road bus stops spur development.  Didn't have time to read 50 pages.  I ride RTA everyday and support it, but they are only a small part of revitalizing any area, not a catalyst.  I'll read up on this post soon.

 

htsguy - If I didn't care, I would not have asked.

 

To answer your specific question- curbside dedicated transit lanes don't work nearly as well for many, many reasons.  Think of Euclid like Shaker Boulevard- tracks in the middle, roadways on the outside- for the same reasons.

I don't really see how the stations being in the middle of the road are a bad thing at all. EF, why do you think that it will hurt business? Do you think it is going to eliminate the occassional impulse pepsi purchase?

Eaglefan (yappi? jj ?),

 

Euclid Ave is long and diverse stretch. The vast majority of Euclid does not depend on vehicular traffic to support retail and restaurant business. Therefore, I don't see how the new configuration hurts it. In downtown, the majority of business is fed by pedestrians walking from work or school or from some parking garage.  I agree that the no-left turn rule is a bit heavy handed.

 

I also think that the lay person doesn't understand too well how much the ECTP has already done for Cleveland. A lot of things have been set in motion that most don't know about.

 

 

Keep in mind, left turns are only prohibited in areas where configuring the busway to allow them would have been cost- or logistic-prohibitive or impossible. In many areas, there are dedicated left turn lanes and signals for automobile traffic.

 

The same goes for truck U-turns being prohibited in certain areas -- this was done where necessary because the physical clearance involved simply didn't allow for it (and it was posted now, rather than reactively waiting for some knucklehead to jacknife an 18-wheeler across the entirety of Euclid Avenue). That was a matter of geometry, not economics or politics.

 

EagleFan, to chime in a little bit on your request for a summary of why middle-of-the-road bus stops spur development, I wouldn't necessarily say that they do. However, in our (still) car-centric society, REMOVING the buses from the curb lane IS actually of benefit to the overall traffic flow and automotive accessibility to off-street parking (since you don't have to risk making a right turn into a parking lot in front of an oncoming bus, which, by the way, IS ILLEGAL as well as downright stupid). It also allows for greater aggregate street capacity (in terms of available automobile space, pedestrian space, and transit space) than bus lanes at either curbside, due to, among other things, consolidation of station facilities and easier implementation of signal prioritization.

 

If it rains this weekend, take the time to at least skim through this thread. There's much to be learned. If it doesn't rain (or even if it does), consider taking a ride up or down Euclid Avenue on the #6 line. Notice the ease with which the traffic flows. You may even encounter a situation where the bus operator has to sit for a few minutes mid-run and make up schedule time due to the fact that our vehicles now often run ahead of their posted running time due to the efficiencies gained.

 

Welcome aboard the thread, and I hope we can carry on some constructive conversations in the future.

Does anyone really think the Euclid Corridor project will improve Euxlid Avenue as much as predicted?  I think RTA was given way too much authority here.  Allowing just one lane for cars, limited parking/loading zones, and preventing left turns into businesses and parking lots is not going to help.  Two lanes with center left turn lane would have been the way to go.  Busses were fine on the right like every other street in the city.

 

A new road and new buildings will certainly help, but bus stations in the middle of the road will do little/nothing for any business on that street.  I think the whole Euclid Avenue road project could have been done for half the cost.

 

One good look at the forums of cleveland.bomb tells the real story behind this post.

http://www.cleveland.com/forums/economy/

Does anyone really think the Euclid Corridor project will improve Euxlid Avenue as much as predicted?  I think RTA was given way too much authority here.  Allowing just one lane for cars, limited parking/loading zones, and preventing left turns into businesses and parking lots is not going to help.  Two lanes with center left turn lane would have been the way to go.  Busses were fine on the right like every other street in the city.

 

A new road and new buildings will certainly help, but bus stations in the middle of the road will do little/nothing for any business on that street.  I think the whole Euclid Avenue road project could have been done for half the cost.

 

One good look at the forums of cleveland.bomb tells the real story behind this post.

http://www.cleveland.com/forums/economy/

 

I looked at the thread in question, and I could feel the brain cells being sucked out of my head as I did so  :wtf:... I have no problem engaging in spirited, informed debate, which is one of the reasons I've stuck around here -- it keeps me mentally sharp...

Note the time of the posters post here and on Cleveland.bomb.  Several people suggested reading this thread and the ECP website, yet the "uniformed bitch-and-moan" thread was started, with people chimming in with misconceptions.

 

THIS IS WHY URBANOHIO IS VALUABLE.  You get the real truth from the horses mouth and a lot of work from the admins and moderators.

 

Admins and moderators, although we've been a little naughty lately thank you for all the hard work you do for UO and for providing us with a wonderful place to share and gather real time information.

 

Jmasek, JeTDoG and other RTA forumers, thank you for all your hardwork and participation here, to give us up-to-date and correct information.

This is a great board that I only just discovered.  Forgive me if after a couple hours of reading, I still do not see the value in the new busses.  No doubt service may be improved, though, and the street will look better...but much like Gateway, the Waterfront Line, etc, will this project produce even remotely close to projections?  I hope so.

I'll chime in with a bit of information from The Burgh'...

 

Fifth Avenue is the primary road going from East Liberty, thru Oakland, past the massive UPMC hospitals complex, until it meets with Boulevard of the Allies. Most of the buses that serve the east side/oakland/downtown areas go thru this area. As the amount of students/faculty/personnel work in Oakland, the amount of usage on the buses has increased.

However, so has the amount of cars.

The solution for the dozens of buses that use fifth avenue every 15 min? A special curbside lane that picks up passengers along Fifth. But to keep people out of the road and from getting hit- there are big long stretches of fences along the street. It looks terrible. It doesnt really speed up the buses, and honestly development is stagnant. For YEARS the port authority has looked at changing Fifth to a similar setup as Euclid- a T line that runs down the middle of the street.

Instead, we get that stupid North Shore Connector.... :x

then it appears you'll never "get it" and really don't care.

 

Let the rest of us move and get informed and I have no doubt this project will be a success.

[unofficial fabulous moderator hat on]

If you want to discuss Gateway, which has been a success, then discuss it in that thread.

 

If you want to discuss WFL, then discuss it in that thread.

 

Warning, before you go off half cocked, at least make sure to educate yourself.  This is not Cleveland.bomb where misconceptions and misinformation are allowed to run rampant.

[unofficial fabulous moderator hat off]

This is a great board that I only just discovered.  Forgive me if after a couple hours of reading, I still do not see the value in the new busses.  No doubt service may be improved, though, and the street will look better...but much like Gateway, the Waterfront Line, etc, will this project produce even remotely close to projections?  I hope so.

 

It is indeed a great board.  I don't undertstand your question.  You concede that service will be improved and that the street will look much better...I'm not sure what else you are looking for a transit/infrastructure project to accomplish.  Unlike the WFL there is already a very significant demand for the slow, crowded service provided today and much employment-heavy construction already underway or in the very near future, so the improvements will be enjoyed by many. 

Primarily, I'm looking for backup to the RTA commercials being run that claim billions of dollars in development as a result of this new bus route.  The new road will no doubt bring development, but it will not bring a new mass-transit centered society that many, including myself, would like to see. 

 

In reading several years worth of this thread, I can certainly appreciate what this project can do for midtown and downtown.  I can also see that RTA's power in the design and building of this project, while not great for the area, was necessary as they had large federal dollars not otherwise on the table.  I look forward to tracking some comments by some very well-informed posters on this board about area projects, many of which I supported fully.  I'm also thankful that not all posters are as judgemental as MTS (and, sadly, now I have judged him).

Primarily, I'm looking for backup to the RTA commercials being run that claim billions of dollars in development as a result of this new bus route. The new road will no doubt bring development, but it will not bring a new mass-transit centered society that many, including myself, would like to see.

 

In reading several years worth of this thread, I can certainly appreciate what this project can do for midtown and downtown. I can also see that RTA's power in the design and building of this project, while not great for the area, was necessary as they had large federal dollars not otherwise on the table. I look forward to tracking some comments by some very well-informed posters on this board about area projects, many of which I supported fully. I'm also thankful that not all posters are as judgemental as MTS (and, sadly, now I have judged him).

 

There are billions of dollars being invested near the Health. If the RTA hadn't built it, there still would be a lot of money invested ($500m heart center, $300m art museum...). Still, the new line had lead to a lot of smaller investments being made. I kind of cringe when I hear those RTA ads. They are not helping.

 

Eaglefan, do I recognize your username from a different ohio-based football site?