I'm also thankful that not all posters are as judgemental as MTS (and, sadly, now I have judged him).

 

That's OK, we all judge each other at least a little bit here! I, for one, appreciate and welcome your questions. I much prefer people asking tough questions than forming opinions based on bits and pieces of good or bad information.

Does anyone know if RTA has published backup for those ads?  I think it is important they do that, and I really hope to see the list and be completely impressed/blown away.  If they have things like the Colonial Arcade, Old Arcade, or East 4th street, I would wonder how much on this list is really as a result of the new line.

 

My favorite addition to Euclid Avenue: Jimmy John's.  Thank goodness they have survived the prolonged/permanent orange barrrels at their front door.  Best subs in town!  (Try an Unwich!)

I think it probably depended on how RTA worded it.

Does anyone know when and where The Travellers Shop is moving too? I walked by it this afternoon and saw that they were having a moving sale with most of the store pretty much cleared out. It would be a shame if they made it this far into the euclid corridor construction to have to close only a few months away from it being finished.

I think that's the place that's moving its operations to the suburbs somewhere, no? I think it was discussed earlier.

^They have a store in beachwood.  Their closing is not corridor related.  Their landlord is essentially kicking them out as that building is going to be used in the district of design.  There is an article from Crain's that details this somewhere either in this thread or in the greater cleveland retail trends thread.

I was in last week and the guy was pretty salty about closing up shop.  It's too bad, though, 'cause they had good stuff there.  I can only hope that what's planned comes true!

Thanks a lot!

Sorry for bringing this up again, i didnt realize it had already been discussed.

I agree that it's a bad situation, but I got a great new bag out of the deal.  Originally $220 marked down to $90!!!

I drove Euclid from Downtown to East 222nd today (slow ride out to Painesville).  The completed sections really look nice.  I really hope it gets fully developed, particularly in midtown. 

 

A few observations:

 

1. I liked the 25 MPH limit.  My Hybrid was in electric mode most of the way down to East Cleveland.

 

2. Delivery guys (FedEx, Beverage, and a cab today) were all parked in the bike lane, which of course is only 3 feet wide.  That causes cars to have to drift into the bus lane to get by.  Dangerous situation if these delivery guys don't get the message that that is not a parking zone.

 

3. I thought the bus stops were going to include fare collection boxes to speed loading?  None of the stops I saw seem to have been designed for that.

re: #3 the health line is wholly proof of fare.

3. I thought the bus stops were going to include fare collection boxes to speed loading?  None of the stops I saw seem to have been designed for that.

 

re: #3 the health line is wholly proof of fare.

 

The healthline is proof of payment, however there will be ticket vending machines at each station.  The vending machines have not been installed yet, but there is wiring for them inside the station shelter.

2. Delivery guys (FedEx, Beverage, and a cab today) were all parked in the bike lane, which of course is only 3 feet wide.  That causes cars to have to drift into the bus lane to get by.  Dangerous situation if these delivery guys don't get the message that that is not a parking zone.

 

I wonder if the City/RTA have increased ticket-writing to send the message- this does sound dangerous.

City chips in $208,000 to speed completion of Euclid Corridor Project downtown

 

$208,000 set for Euclid Avenue extras

 

Tuesday, May 20, 2008

 

Gabriel Baird

Plain Dealer Reporter

 

Cleveland will spend $208,000 to speed completion of the Euclid Corridor Project between Playhouse Square and Public Square and end months of downtown traffic and pedestrian woes.

Fine with me, but get it done right

2. Delivery guys (FedEx, Beverage, and a cab today) were all parked in the bike lane, which of course is only 3 feet wide.  That causes cars to have to drift into the bus lane to get by.  Dangerous situation if these delivery guys don't get the message that that is not a parking zone.

I wonder if the City/RTA have increased ticket-writing to send the message- this does sound dangerous.

 

Agreed.  I've been biking the Euclid Corridor for the past two weeks and I have to say it's a smooth ride and quite pleasant due to the lack of other vehicle on the road.  The finished segments are - on the whole - very attractive and comfortable to ride.  Drawbacks are that there's still a lot of debris on the finished road segments, which I'm assuming will get cleaned up as construction wraps up, and that some of the paint that identifies lanes has already begun to fade.  Especially in the vicinity of the Agora... keeping these lines fresh will be very important, as drivers will be very confused driving this street without clear markings.  The delivery vehicle issue popped up a couple times as well, which wasn't a problem since the road is very lightly used right now, but as traffic picks up again, it could be a problem.

 

I also noticed again how much the new configuration seems to really encourage people to jaywalk.  I know this is going to be an ongoing problem, but the narrower street with the stations in the middle gives pedestrians a feeling of safety and comfort that leads them to just walk out into the road whether they're going to the station or not.  I know we've discussed this before, but here's a new pic to illustrate what I'm talking about:

 

.

 

Again, as traffic returns to the street, this might change, but for now, it's super easy to just walk out and not see a car anywhere.

 

One other issue is that some of the early work already appears to be showing signs of wear and tear.  Several completed segments in Midtown have been dug up again in recent weeks (not sure why) and areas like this pedestrian crossing at E. 40th Street will likely get worse after another winter.  We'll see how the ongoing maintenance is handled.

 

2. Delivery guys (FedEx, Beverage, and a cab today) were all parked in the bike lane, which of course is only 3 feet wide.  That causes cars to have to drift into the bus lane to get by.  Dangerous situation if these delivery guys don't get the message that that is not a parking zone.

 

EagleFan-

 

I actually bumped into Transit Police Chief Joyce as I was coming back from lunch about twenty minutes ago, and shared your concerns with him. Transit Police has actively been meeting with merchants and delivery services that frequent the area, and explaining to them the consequences of using the bike lane or other restricted areas as loading/parking zones.

 

Of course, the Transit Police can't be everywhere all the time, so undoubtedly the occasional infraction will happen. This is an unfortunate reality. I will say that in the past, traffic light cameras have been used for other purposes besides catching people running red lights, though this usually happens after an incident occurs.

 

There are also a few things you can do to help:

 

1. In many cases, delivery trucks or similar vehicles will have an identifying number, and a tag that says something along the lines of "How's my driving? Call...". Much the same way as we can't simultaneously police all areas of Euclid Avenue, many of these companies can't always monitor the behavior of all their operators. Feedback numbers like this are an ideal opportunity to influence the company to take corrective action against the specific perpetrator -- much like us, they can't correct what they don't know about.

 

2. If you do observe instances of persistent, regular violation (especially in cases where the steps in item 1 have already been taken), such as a certain beer truck being outside a particular restaurant at 2:30 every Tuesday afternoon, by all means report the details of time, place, and person/company to Transit Police by calling 216-575-3937. We'll work with all parties involved to get the issue addressed so that it doesn't become a chronic behavior.

^As far as I can tell, its important to note while many have bemoaned lack of street parking as a result of the Euclid Corridor Project, whether true or not, many of these same vehicles (i.e. beer truck, FedEx guy, etc.) have been double parking for years, is just that with reconfiguration it has more of an impact.

 

I will be interested in how well they keep the stations maintained and do the mundane stuff like keep replacing the light bulbs, especially those in the brick walkways.  I think it will detract from usage if there are gaps in the lighting and the stations look unmaintained.  I wish RTA the best on this long project.  Hey, at least we got Euclid resurfaced!

I will be interested in how well they keep the stations maintained and do the mundane stuff like keep replacing the light bulbs, especially those in the brick walkways.  I think it will detract from usage if there are gaps in the lighting and the stations look unmaintained.  I wish RTA the best on this long project.  Hey, at least we got Euclid resurfaced!

 

:roll:

 

 

I will be interested in how well they keep the stations maintained and do the mundane stuff like keep replacing the light bulbs, especially those in the brick walkways.  I think it will detract from usage if there are gaps in the lighting and the stations look unmaintained.  I wish RTA the best on this long project.  Hey, at least we got Euclid resurfaced!

 

This bodes well... at a management meeting I attended this morning, the janitorial supervisor who will be responsible for HealthLine station upkeep (who I will not presently name here out of respect for her privacy) was recognized as one of RTA's Support Employees of the Month. This was due in part to her willingness to take on new assignments and develop appropriate action plans to oversee them.

 

To put it another way - this responsibility has a credible name and face attached to it.

Jetdog:

 

  Who is responsible for lights on the corridor, is it RTA or CPP?  I drove down from 79th into downtown last weekend and there were already a SHOCKING number of lights out.  Both the street lamps and the disc lights in the median.  And by shocking I'm talking somewhere between 30-40 lights.  It almost seems impossible for lights that were just installed within a year.

RTA is using City Year volunteers today to hand out cards downtown touting the Euclid Corridor project.  I don't have a scanner handy, but here's what the card says:

 

Heading: "Signs of life are popping up everyday on Euclid Avenue (and now in your backyard.)"

 

" The RTA HealthLine has already attracted over 33 new businesses and is generating $4.3 billion in new investment.  Add to that the 1,500 new trees sprouting and it's clear: The rebirth of Cleveland is happening."

 

It goes on to explain how to plant these cards (printed on seed paper), but I am not sure what will grow (flower? tree?).

 

A feel good message, for sure.  However, there was no indication on how the $4.3 billion # was arrived at.  And what does "over 33 mean"?  34?

The card also says "Learn more at RTAHealthLine.com", but that site only says "Coming Soon".

"...is generating $4.3 billion in new investment."

 

Come on, guys.  It's fine to be positive about the project but that's a pretty big stretch.

Jetdog:

 

  Who is responsible for lights on the corridor, is it RTA or CPP?  I drove down from 79th into downtown last weekend and there were already a SHOCKING number of lights out.  Both the street lamps and the disc lights in the median.  And by shocking I'm talking somewhere between 30-40 lights.  It almost seems impossible for lights that were just installed within a year.

 

that is a CPP situation, and I believe the stretch in question hasn't yet been energized by CPP, so it's not that the lights are OUT, it's that they haven't yet been turned ON... patience, young Jedi...

Jetdog:

 

  Who is responsible for lights on the corridor, is it RTA or CPP?  I drove down from 79th into downtown last weekend and there were already a SHOCKING number of lights out.  Both the street lamps and the disc lights in the median.  And by shocking I'm talking somewhere between 30-40 lights.  It almost seems impossible for lights that were just installed within a year.

 

that is a CPP situation, and I believe the stretch in question hasn't yet been energized by CPP, so it's not that the lights are OUT, it's that they haven't yet been turned ON... patience, young Jedi...

 

Sorry... I get antsy.  :)

"Over 33" means exactly what it says.  Likely, at the time of printing there were 33 (or 34) new businesses along the corridor.  As the cards will exist and be passed out in the future it is likely more businesses will arrive and therefore putting "over 33" sends the most positive yet accurate  message.

 

But wait, are City Year volunteers allowed to just pass out cards for free like that?  Of their own volition and out of a desire to improve the city?  Shouldn't the city of Cleveland be paying public union workers overtime to pass out the cards?  :shoot:

The card also says "Learn more at RTAHealthLine.com", but that site only says "Coming Soon".

 

the updated content was a bit late arriving from our contractor, but it has been placed out there now... go explore...

Jetdog:

 

  Who is responsible for lights on the corridor, is it RTA or CPP?  I drove down from 79th into downtown last weekend and there were already a SHOCKING number of lights out.  Both the street lamps and the disc lights in the median.  And by shocking I'm talking somewhere between 30-40 lights.  It almost seems impossible for lights that were just installed within a year.

 

that is a CPP situation, and I believe the stretch in question hasn't yet been energized by CPP, so it's not that the lights are OUT, it's that they haven't yet been turned ON... patience, young Jedi...

 

Sorry... I get antsy.  :)

 

's'okay, I won't be unleashing the flying monkeys on you any time soon :-P

The card also says "Learn more at RTAHealthLine.com", but that site only says "Coming Soon".

 

the updated content was a bit late arriving from our contractor, but it has been placed out there now... go explore...

Thanks, nice website!

 

I do see that part of the $4.3 billion in development includes Cleveland Clinic, University Hospital, and Case Western expansions.  Was the Health Line the catalyst for those projects?  Haven't all 3 been expanding for years?

FYI

 

Please be advised that the Euclid Ave./E. 6th Street intersection (North Side) will be closed for construction and installation of pavement work on Tuesday, May 27, 2008.  No through traffic to Euclid will be permitted.  Construction work is expected for up to 5 weeks, weather permitting.  Traffic patterns on Euclid Ave. (eastbound/westbound) and Superior Ave. will not be impacted.

Hm.  I just discovered that it'll still be cheaper for me to drive to work.

 

That's a little disconcerting.

 

BUT, that doesn't change my support of this project!  I think it will help do exactly what everyone wants it to do.

The card also says "Learn more at RTAHealthLine.com", but that site only says "Coming Soon".

 

the updated content was a bit late arriving from our contractor, but it has been placed out there now... go explore...

Thanks, nice website!

 

I do see that part of the $4.3 billion in development includes Cleveland Clinic, University Hospital, and Case Western expansions.  Was the Health Line the catalyst for those projects?  Haven't all 3 been expanding for years?

 

EF, you really seem to be harping on this.  The site actually says,  "Currently more than $4.3 billion has been invested along the route."  I don't think that says the health line is responsible for it.  They are merely pointed out the investment that is taking place along Euclid Avenue, and how Euclid is the catalyst for our city's growth.  And yes I do believe the corridor project ties it all together.  While the museums and hospitals may have have invested regardless, collegetown wouldn't even be a thought without it, and the many investments taking place along Euclid dowtown, simply wouldn't be happening unless the infastructure was revamped. Period.  Having a spiffy transit line on the reworked avenue certainly doesn't hurt... as I believe it is pretty well documented that development follows good mass transit.  People who want to find a reason to complain about the numbers will disect them over and over and invent their reasons.  But I tell you what, if this project didn't happen you'd still be seeing city tumbleweeds blowing down a lifeless Euclid Avenue downtown.  Property has also been getting gobbled up throughout midtown on Euclid and I think it's safe to say no one was too interested in that before.

Does anyone know if RTA has published backup for those ads?  I think it is important they do that, and I really hope to see the list and be completely impressed/blown away.  If they have things like the Colonial Arcade, Old Arcade, or East 4th street, I would wonder how much on this list is really as a result of the new line.

 

See The Plain Dealer, Sunday, Feb. 10, 2008, Pages A1, A8, A9, The rebirth of Euclid Avenue...it's all there, and more. We have not met. I'm Jerry Masek, RTA public information officer.

Welcome back, JMasek!

I wonder if the City/RTA have increased ticket-writing to send the message- this does sound dangerous.

 

Transit Police are hiring more staff, and extra police radios are now being purchased.

EF, you really seem to be harping on this.  The site actually says,  "Currently more than $4.3 billion has been invested along the route."  I don't think that says the health line is responsible for it. 

 

The quote on the cards being handed out, as stated above, says:  "The RTA HealthLine has already attracted over 33 new businesses and is generating $4.3 billion in new investment." 

 

Seems to be taking credit for quite a lot of development that would occur with or without the fancy new busses.  That's all I am saying.  Mis-information does not help RTA's cause.  If it is 1 billion in investment being generated as a result of the project, that is what they should state and not inflate the numbers to make it look even better.

Mis-information does not help RTA's cause.  If it is 1 billion in investment being generated as a result of the project, that is what they should state and not inflate the numbers to make it look even better.

 

That's it, I'm not using RTA because I think they manipulated facts!

 

Might as well stop voting for politicans, listening to my fantasy football blog, being an actuary and paying attention to all media.

 

(People are going to use RTA if they want to (or not), not because of little pamphlets or if Joe C starts crapping diamonds. )

...or if Joe C starts crapping diamonds. )

 

Ouch!

EF, you really seem to be harping on this.  The site actually says,  "Currently more than $4.3 billion has been invested along the route."  I don't think that says the health line is responsible for it. 

 

The quote on the cards being handed out, as stated above, says:  "The RTA HealthLine has already attracted over 33 new businesses and is generating $4.3 billion in new investment." 

 

Seems to be taking credit for quite a lot of development that would occur with or without the fancy new busses.  That's all I am saying.  Mis-information does not help RTA's cause.  If it is 1 billion in investment being generated as a result of the project, that is what they should state and not inflate the numbers to make it look even better.

 

And all I'm saying is no matter what the number or statistic those who want to rail against the project will find a way to do it.  Would you feel better if the Clinic, UH Cancer center, and Art Museum and their 1.1 billion dollars worth of work weren't counted?  That's still 3.2 billion in investments. And that doesn't count some of the projects that haven't launched yet.  And I have spoken face to face with developers who have said flat out they wouldn't be making those investments if Euclid weren't being remade.  Again, those against this will find fault with any number or statistic thrown out.  Those who understand the importance of this project could care less what "numbers" are used. 

Hm.  I just discovered that it'll still be cheaper for me to drive to work.

 

Do you get your parking paid for by your employer? If so, you can also get your transit trip paid for by your employer and it can get the same federal tax breaks that it enjoys by paying for parking. See:

 

http://www.gcrta.org/pro_commuter.asp

What is the estimate of impact of the Windemere <-->Downtown BRT on the Windemere <--> Downtown Rapid (Red Line) ridership?  Is the analysis that the BRT will be mostly riders making shorter trips on Euclid or that Red Line users will be people coming from farther out or going beyond downtown, say to the airport?  Also will there still be a Euclid local with more frequent stops than the BRT? 

EF, you really seem to be harping on this.  The site actually says,  "Currently more than $4.3 billion has been invested along the route."  I don't think that says the health line is responsible for it. 

 

The quote on the cards being handed out, as stated above, says:  "The RTA HealthLine has already attracted over 33 new businesses and is generating $4.3 billion in new investment." 

 

Seems to be taking credit for quite a lot of development that would occur with or without the fancy new busses.  That's all I am saying.  Mis-information does not help RTA's cause.  If it is 1 billion in investment being generated as a result of the project, that is what they should state and not inflate the numbers to make it look even better.

 

And all I'm saying is no matter what the number or statistic those who want to rail against the project will find a way to do it.  Would you feel better if the Clinic, UH Cancer center, and Art Museum and their 1.1 billion dollars worth of work weren't counted?  That's still 3.2 billion in investments. And that doesn't count some of the projects that haven't launched yet.  And I have spoken face to face with developers who have said flat out they wouldn't be making those investments if Euclid weren't being remade.  Again, those against this will find fault with any number or statistic thrown out.  Those who understand the importance of this project could care less what "numbers" are used. 

 

Whoa, slow down.  EF raises a fair and valid point - the text he saw on the City Year handout is misleading if it says that the Euclid Corridor project "is generating" the $4.3B in investment.  He hasn't made any comments that I've seen that suggest he's in any way against this project.  He just seems to have an admirable fondness for honesty.  Saying things like "those who understand the importance of this project could care less what 'numbers' are used" makes it sound like you don't care if they're being honest or not - anything to get this project done.  Mindless positivism isn't any better than mindless negativism. 

 

In the end this all seems like much ado about nothing.  The full accounting of the $4.3B has been laid out here and in the PD, so there really is that much either completed, underway, or planned along the route.  And the City Year card is the only time I've seen it phrased in that way that clearly claims that the Euclid Corrider Project was the cause of the investment.  Most of the time the $4.3B is mentioned, it's more nuanced, still not being as forthright as some would like about whether that investment would have happened anyway, but not going so far as to take credit either.

I don't see that the EC needs to necessarily take credit for all that development to be worthwhile.  It is also supporting and servicing that investment.

the Chicago Metropolitan Planning Authority has "borrowed" a BRT vehicle from Cleveland for their press release on expanded BRT in Chicago...it looks like they twisted the front though...

 

http://www.metroplanning.org/articleDetail.asp?objectID=4399

 

It looks like they took a panoramic shot.

What is the estimate of impact of the Windemere <-->Downtown BRT on the Windemere <--> Downtown Rapid (Red Line) ridership?  Is the analysis that the BRT will be mostly riders making shorter trips on Euclid or that Red Line users will be people coming from farther out or going beyond downtown, say to the airport?  Also will there still be a Euclid local with more frequent stops than the BRT? 

 

I cannot address all your questions, but I can say this: RTA has found that bus and rail each have individual supporters. Some bus riders will refuse to use the rail, and vice versa.

 

All buses that operate on Euclid Avenue will stop at all stations, so no, there will not be a Euclid local that makes more stops than the HealthLine. Also, with the new transit-only lane configuration, it would not be feasible for a bus to continue curbside pickup.

Some bus riders will refuse to use the rail 

 

Really! Other than Joe Calabrese, name them!  :-D

KJP, here is a serious answer to what I know was meant to be a humorous question.

 

I prefer rail to buses. I sleep much better -- the stops and starts are smoother.

 

Joe Calabrese often rides the rail to special events, such as Browns games, to evaluate our service delivery. When his schedule permits, he drives from Westlake to Triskett, and rides the Red Line to work.

 

On more than one occasion, RTA has tried to reduce service on a bus route by moving its end point at a rail station, instead of downtown. Riders clearly told us "no way" -- they strongly preferred bus to rail.