Yes, "plumb" is an excellent word.

Now, I've got all sorts of plans related to the Corridor, but still always have questions....

At one time a canopy of some sort was proposed for Playhouse Square - perhaps coming out of the theater buildings and hovering over the marquees?  I note this is one stretch with no trees and I think it looks a bit bare.  Also, we see these elegant marquees and all and yet the same stark lightpoles and other amenities.  I'd have thought this would have been a place for some sort of traditional and more decorative lighting, for example.  Many cities did, after all, bring back (or even keep) their old and dignified and graceful light standards for their "Main Streets" - or order replicas.  University Circle, of course, would also be an excellent choice.  Yes, I know it all costs a lot of dough but this could take higher priority to some of the other "public art" forms....

Also, and rather important, does anyone know what became of the plans for the bus substation that was to be located at the n.w. corner of Prospect and E. 21st?  I assume the parking garage currently being constructed between E. 21st and E. 22nd, between Prospect and Carnegie, is the property of CSU, but is GCRTA part of the mix for buses to be stationed in the piece between the garage and Prospect?  I've seen no announcement or publicity (even Steve Litt relates he is not aware of it) nor is there any sign up, even though construction has been going on several months.

Finally, does anyone know know what is going on along E. 83rd - across the street from the Play House parking lot?  Again, no sign!  The apt. houses that had stood there were to be used for individuals temporarily connected with the Play House but they got demolished....  McDonald's on Euclid end.  New townhouses?  Thanks!

It is what it is.  the post are up.  The Fed Government paid for the majority of this.  Have you read the healthline site?

 

i'm not putting you on the spot BUT I'm not saying we should not have a voice or be passive in our decisions, but now that these are up, it would, in my opinion, be a waste of money, to toss them.

 

I'd rather concentrate my energy in making sure that they are all installed properly and maintained.

??? What do you mean: the "post are up?" ???  You mean "poles?"  They're already in place, so what you mean we should concentrate on their being "installed properly?"  You mean "made to work properly?"  I don't think this issue is water over the dam; I believe the poles might yet be anchored better - and this is for safety purposes besides aesthetics.  And yes, I read the HealthLine site regularly, as well as the entire GCRTA website, and I see no reference to the installation of these poles - if that's what you're referring to.

New York is the big apple, but Cleveland light poles are plumb.

MTS you are correct, in regards to not being much we can do with the already purchased light posts.  And few people support the corridor as much as I... but choosing that style of lightpost and trash can was a colossal mistake.  In about 5 years people are going to be saying "those were sooooo 2008".  In 10, people are going making fun of the "silver frisbees" down our main street.  and at some point they will be so laughably out of date that they will be discontinued by the lighting manufacturer, we won't be able to get things like the ballasts for that specific light and we'll be f'd (see North Coast Harbor and their fancy lights... 3/4 of which no longer work, and nothing can be done because we can't order the ballasts... so we wait until there is enough money they can be completely replaced.

 

This is a huge in retrospect "should have" but I've been traveling to Boston a lot for work this summer, and this is the lighting and trash cans they used on "the big dig"... seems a little more appropriate, no?  (They also used granite curbs in their center medians which I think we will really regret not having).

New York is the big apple, but Cleveland light poles are plumb.

:clap:

Boston is one city with great, great streetlights!  Just look at the ambiance the gaslights provide to Beacon Hill; when one enters that district one realizes he or she is in a truly special place....  Back Bay and various other districts there have great lights, too.

In Toronto in July I noticed new lights being installed along parts of Yonge Street.  They were black, different, and very attractive.

The garbage recepticles you show for Boston are somewhat classic and decent design but I do appreciate the "computeresque" nature of our new ones.

Ironically Cleveland is known for a historic style of street light now used in lifestyle type developments in places such as Florida.  Known as the "Cleveland style", it is a historic looking reproduction of an ornate double light, on an ornate pole.  As much as Im a critic of Cleveland not taking advantage of its own history, Im not sure how they could have been fit into the futuristic looking concept of the corridor though, but it seems they could be used in other contexts downtown etc.  Im guessing they would be rather cost prohibative as well due to their heavy and ornate nature. 

 

I have mixed feelings about the lights they used, but it probably didnt help with the sturdyness issue that they had to value engineer these with the use of fiberglass, which can be flimsy..

 

There are some things yet to be added to Playhouse square, with additional planters by next year and a center public art piece that should involve light.  Otherwise they tend to not want to use trees in a way that would block views of marquees etc...         

MTS you are correct, in regards to not being much we can do with the already purchased light posts.  And few people support the corridor as much as I... but choosing that style of lightpost and trash can was a colossal mistake.  In about 5 years people are going to be saying "those were sooooo 2008".  In 10, people are going making fun of the "silver frisbees" down our main street.  and at some point they will be so laughably out of date that they will be discontinued by the lighting manufacturer, we won't be able to get things like the ballasts for that specific light and we'll be f'd (see North Coast Harbor and their fancy lights... 3/4 of which no longer work, and nothing can be done because we can't order the ballasts... so we wait until there is enough money they can be completely replaced.

 

This is a huge in retrospect "should have" but I've been traveling to Boston a lot for work this summer, and this is the lighting and trash cans they used on "the big dig"... seems a little more appropriate, no?  (They also used granite curbs in their center medians which I think we will really regret not having).

 

Trust me, I like those lights much better. they are similar to Chicago's as well. 

 

However, I think the unique poles and stations, are amazing.

 

Jerry, what are contingency and maintenance plans for the stations, and the system lighting?

Boston has 4 types of street lights... 4.  3 of which look remarkably similar.  It helps establish identity.  We use the same type all over the warehouse and civic districts... and then we are all over the place everywhere else.  Each new development trying to look more "futuristic" than the next.  And eventually they all look stupid, and eventually need replaced because their parts are no longer available.  Boston embraces it's 200+ year old identity, we try to run from ours... I really think the corridor blew this.

Ughhh.  The light poles and garbage cans in Boston in the images above can be found in any crappy light post or recepticle supplier booklet.  For the most part, they're generic and can be found all across the country.

I'm not saying the ECP posts are great, but at least they aren't pulled straight out of a Sweet's catalogue.

Not putting "historic" looking lightpoles on Euclid has nothing to do with ignoring our past, I think it has more to do with looking positively towards the future.  Leave the traditional lightposts for Crocker Park.

what do you want me to say... I'm a traditionalist.  :-P

 

honestly though, whenever you choose something this "different", you end up with parts issues down the road.

I've always been very sorry Cleveland didn't go in for buried wires many decades ago.  Rochester for example, where I'm from, and Syracuse, where I went to school, have the decorative street lights in commercial and residential neighborhoods which really add to the ambiance.  Even Akron and Canton do.

We do now, of course, have more than two kinds of local streetlights, but most have become cliche's.  For example, we have the ones in some newer suburban developments - black and very simplified from the 18th century gaslights.  We have those turn-of-the century ones, found in such places as Cleveland Heights public spaces.  We have some a little different, such as in Coventry Village or around University Hospitals.  And we have the so-called "Cleveland" ones, if that's what you mean, such as around Tower City and the Warehouse District and Prospect Avenue (mixed with new high poles is definitely a compromise in overall effect but does have some safety credibility).  But these were installed by various companies over the years, or one style was no longer available or whatever, so they don't match (i.e. different proportions) and again - many are crooked.

I was waiting for w28th to chime in.  I also think it is good that they didnt use the run of the mill lights from a supply book since the ones pictured are probably right for some of Boston's very historic neighborhoods, but can also be found nearly everywhere, so hardly unique.     

What do you mean "w28th?"  I always wished Ohio City did have historic-looking streetlights but it has the usual buried wires. They did it on w. 25th but mixed with modern.

OK fine, but again, those "unique" ones come back to bite you.  Playhouse square wanted unique when they selected the lights on Hruon Road... now the ballasts are out of stock and they are replacing all the lights posts and all in another month or so.  The same thing is going to have to happen with those crazy white street lights all over North Coast Harbour.  Knock the traditional "Cleveland" black street light all you want because life style centers started liking them, but they will never stop making them.  Just sayin... I hate our silver frisbees.

 

And I think back to the original topic, it's insane that they are all out of plum.  And someone needs to correct it.

What does "plum" mean in this instance?

Nothing. The word is plumb. :-)

"What do you mean "w28th?""

 

That's the screenname of one of our forumers - he replied in this thread.

(They also used granite curbs in their center medians which I think we will really regret not having).

 

Yes indeed, been saying that myself since the first day I heard the granite was "value engineered" out oh some 5 or 6 years back I think it's been now...

 

The concrete curbs and median will be looking pretty busted up a few years from now, it's starting already if you look close. In this case it's nonsense to call the concrete for granite swap "value engineering" -- it's just up front cost cutting plain and simple that will have to paid for down the road either ascetically or in real dollars if/when repaired.

If I recall correctly the value engineering was done so that the project could receive federal funds at all and go forward.  KJP is probably the best person to enlighten us on the specifics but I believe it had do with some sort of formula and the cost had to be reduced in order to meet certain federal guidelines and of course things like granite curbs were the first to go.  I am sure RTA and the city was not thrilled by this but the choice was either reduce the final number or say good bye to the $$ which meant say good bye to the entire project.

Unfortunately, I think you are right.  I'm not a fan of the way alot of the streetscaping has turned out, but I'd take it over not having any money to do anything to improve the street.

Ughhh.  The light poles and garbage cans in Boston in the images above can be found in any crappy light post or recepticle supplier booklet.  For the most part, they're generic and can be found all across the country.

 

AMEN!  Those old timey light poles are going up in every city it seems!  The new ones on Euclid also look like they might be meant to control "light pollution" which seems environmentally responsible and forward thinking.  Not sure if they actually serve that purpose though :?

Are the 120 new planters to be installed from "Playhouse Square" to East 18th or "Public Square" to East 18th???  The original articles says "Playhouse Square" and that don't make no sense....

Is that artist the same who designed those sculptural things on Mall 2 or the planters at Eaton Chagrin Boulevard? 

Tall light pole outside Union Club example of bad, bad tilt.  Here this venerable Florentine-style institution with colorful windowboxes finally has the equipment and barrels removed around it and it has to have a wayward silvery pole hovering by it....

The official opening is still a month away.  Perhaps they'll make a pass down the street fixing things like crooked poles.

Sure hope so.... I imagine it CAN be done....

Embarrasing to the Clinic, alone!

Why don't we let Jerry answer as I asked up thread.

Who's Jerry and is he directly connected with GCRTA and/or the Corridor?

Jerry Masek, Comminication/Media director(?) for RTA.  He posts here and in the Great RTA thread and answers our question about RTA.

 

His name here on UO is JMasek.

There so much to comment on here, but several points don't really relate to the ECTP alone, so I'll be brief.  One, a number of communities, including University Circle, are working on plans to add to the ECTP improvements with more streetscape amenities like benches, unique lighting, bike racks, etc.  The ECTP is the baseline from which these neighborhoods will add their individual character/flair.

 

Two, CPP has a pretty limited set of options for street lighting.  We've seen this become a problem at a few points throughout the City, including the Italian Cultural Garden in Rockefeller Park.  It's not easy to get them to add a new fixture, unless you've got scale like 6 miles of lights to be installed.

 

Some new pics from the Circle:

 

Euclid @ E. 115 in front of CIA... peek-a-boo on the new Cleveland Hearing & Speech Center building in the background:

 

Things will indeed change in the lots beyond this new public art piece, the site of the Uptown development:

 

Doing more harm than good?

 

Out for a test drive on Euclid in front of the Uptown sales center:

 

Thanks for those pics! I am so excited about this neighborhood, I can't even tell you... :)

It's starting to come together, Pepper, it's starting to come together.

"I got a guy on the other line about some white walls..."

 

Shoot, we're going too far off topic! [snip, snip]

http://www.city.cleveland.oh.us/pdf/press/20080912582.pdf

 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

September 12, 2008

*Public Notice*

 

Two Red Light Cameras to be Redeployed to New Locations

 

CLEVELAND – Two red light cameras, dismantled due to the Euclid Corridor project will be redeployed to new locations. Camera signage and construction arrangements for the moves are already in progress. Pursuant to Section 413.031 of Ordinance 176-A-05, the newly installed cameras will not be used to issue violations to offenders for at least thirty (30) days from issuance of this announcement. However, warning notices may be issued to motorists beginning as early as October 1 for a minimum of two weeks.

 

Citizens are encouraged to adhere to the laws of the road, traffic signals and posted signage to protect themselves and others.

 

The following red light cameras will be removed for redeployment:

• Euclid Avenue at Chester Avenue/eastbound lanes - Intersection reconfigured due to Euclid Corridor project.

• Euclid Avenue at Mayfield Road/westbound lanes - Intersection reconfigured due to Euclid Corridor project.

 

The red light cameras will be redeployed at the following locations:

• Lakeshore Boulevard at East 159th Street/westbound lanes - Existing camera on the eastbound side of the intersection. Intersection has heavy pedestrian traffic.

• Carnegie Avenue at East 30th Street/westbound lanes - Existing camera on the eastbound side of the intersection. Location identified as a high accident area.

 

Pursuant to Section 413.031 of Ordinance 176-A-05, this advisory serves to notify the general public of moves at least thirty days before a camera is made fully operational and is used to issue tickets to offenders. Before a camera issues actual tickets, there will be a period of at least two weeks, which will run concurrently with the thirty-day public notice period, during which only warning notices shall be issued.

Another inquiry re those bloomin' EC streetlights:

I realize the new trees lining Euclid are not consistent; they are in batches in sort of a willy-nilly fashion, with some stretches having no trees but perhaps in the vicinity "heavy" landscaping in the corresponding median, etc.  However, I'd expect the lighting to be darned consistent.  Why then, are there stretches - as recently as today - from about E. 86th to E. 105th, with still no tall streetlights on the sidewalks ? 

I know the E. 105th-E. 107th vicinity is still under considerable construction, so I can understand that.  Ditto the Univ. Circle stretch, which is still missing the lights along an entire side.  But around E. 86th to E. 105th should be quite complete at this juncture.  So I'm wondering if possibly more lighting there is not even going the be installed?  Strange!  I also notice how the stretch downtown with the tall double lights in the median, and balanced by the short lights on the walks, is not matched in the Clinic vacinity; all lights there are tall except those low Clinic area vertical cylinder lights.  Wonder how that decision was made.

As for all those tilted lights, besides aesthetics and possibly basic safety, large light poles that are askew look simply dumb and they give the image of poor workmanship or lack of skills on the part of the crew who installed them.  Again, they convey a dumb image that doesn't gel at all with all the high-tech construction and - in the case of the Cleveland Clinic - world-class distinction they hope to convey.

Now that the streetsigns on the more minor streets off Euclid have finally been installed (it was awful with some streets having no identification for many months), has anyone noticed how small the new signs (e.g. E. 75th) are?  The new signs are not the very large type that have been being installed around the City of Cleveland the past few years; rather they are unusally small.  In fact, not seeing one at this moment, I wonder if they're the old signs brought back?  I don't think so, though, but I seem to recall they have the combination upper- and lower-case lettering.  Is their small size (and thus not as easy to read for some as the current user-friendly trend calls for) as a cost-savings thing or did someone decide the usual new Cleveland signs would be so large they'd really distract from the overall visual design of the Corridor?  The latter seems unlikely.  So why do the new signs not match the others recently installed around Cleveland?  Of course the ones over the street are huge, as elsewhere.

Walking down the street after work today, I happened to catch a BRT flying by... I'm getting kind of excited.

 

Also, I noticed this out front of the United Way Building, very similar to the paver outside of the City Club.  I really hope more businesses decide to do things like this, I think it could create something very unique.

This one's fine but it's too bad there are so many concrete interruptions to the general flow of the brick walks.  I suppose some are some sort of entries to the underground lockers that must be there but it seems many places where there are brick walks (such as the very most flavorful, such as Beacon Hill, Boston) such concrete interruptions are not seen.  In the case of a street, such as E. 6th, there are large concrete portions on both sides of the intersection.

Is the asbestos removal still going on with the Breuer Tower?  I know it was stopped for a while but I believe it was started again.  For how long???  Is there still a plan for housing at 1010 Euclid or is it to be demolished or just "on hold" or what?

Still haven't gotten a concrete answer as to what's going up behind the McDonalds at Euclid and E. 83rd.  Cleve. Planning Dept., Councilwoman's office, etc. haven't come through.  Someone at the Play House believes it is to be "food store" (i.e. supermarket??).  Still no sign up.  I looked in the County Admin. Bldg. and they just say the parcels are owned by an entity called "Euclid-E. 83" - or something like that.

Hope they get going with restoring the original (or at least elegant) facades of those three buildings between the Huntington and the Statler Arms.  Does anyone know what progress there is?

Lafont, you might have more success posting your inquiries at these development-related threads....

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,7408.0.html

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,1621.0.html

Thanks.  I hadn't run into these two blogs yet.

Not really sure where to put this, so ill just stick in here since it makes the most sense.

But ive noticed when walking on euclid on the north side of the street, that there is no walk signal at 12th street heading east. Is this simply a mistake or is there really going to be no walk signal here. There is one at 12th when heading west though.

They took it down... presumably for repairs of some sort.  There is an orange cone covering the base.

^^I've noticed as well; it hasn't been there for at least a month now.  I run through that intersection a few times a week and I have to slow down to check traffic and the lights when I get there because that signal is down.  Not a huge deal by any means, but it'll be nice when it's back up.

its good to know that it is for sure going back up.

Both sides of Euclid open at Case! Happy dance! Okay, back to driving!

Isn't the University Circle segment asphalt, while the EC up to around e. 107th is concrete?  Why???

On Saturday, I saw BRTs running down the street with people on them.  Their signage didn't say "Training" like they've had for a while; it said "Public Square" or "Stokes/Windermere." 

 

I thought the busses wouldn't start running until October 25th.  Was this a sneak peek?

They were running them between public square and university circle for the Sparx gallery hop yesterday and saturday

I rode on Saturday and had a good experience.  The middle "swivel" chairs are kind of fun, sort of like a sit-and-spin ;).  Many on board didn't know what to make of the yellow strips throughout the cabin, I had to explain their use to a few people.

I rode on Saturday and had a good experience.  The middle "swivel" chairs are kind of fun, sort of like a sit-and-spin ;).  Many on board didn't know what to make of the yellow strips throughout the cabin, I had to explain their use to a few people.

 

Oh, that's right.  I remember reading about that, now.

 

Thanks.