Will be really interesting to watch the HL ridership over the next 10 years.  On one hand, employment growth in Midtown, the Clinic and parts of UC, as well as the economic rebound overall should help it grow.  On the other hand, the continued deterioration of East Cleveland, Fairfax and Hough could continue to eat away at the residential density along the corridor.  And Uptown and downtown residential growth probably aren't nearly enough to make up for that.  I have no sense if ridership in 10 years will be closer to 3M or 5M.

In the business of moving people, or things, transit times are a key metric.  Perhaps THE metric.  If an airline or delivery service is always late, nobody cares about its volume.  Especially when it's a monopoly.  Of course it'll have volume.  It may even start believing it's entitled to that volume regardless of its performance. 

 

So we're really supposed to ignore the fact that our new transit system cannot come close to meeting its transit time promises?  We're suppsed to equate that with some unattainable Quixotic fancy?  Because it came with new sidewalks?  That's ludicrous.  That's the defintion of a bait & switch.  The 20-minute service level is still being advertised by RTA, in writing.  How can that not matter?  This is a transit system... the quality of its underlying sewer pipes is really not the point.  It should be judged on its performance as a transit system.

Not one soul in this county agreed to pay $200 million to increase capacity on the 6 route. 

That's true.  But what they actually paid was $43.6 mil. (the rest was federal dollars.)

I think as long as the city has a car first mentality, the healthline will never meet those times

If an airline or delivery service is always late, nobody cares about its volume.

 

If airlines or delivery services ran every 5-15 minutes, it would mitigate concerns about lateness of departure or arrival. Even if the system has some quirks that definitely do need worked out, I'm satisfied with the investment just in terms of what it's done to the aesthetic of the street, its encouragement of a pedestrian-orientation to infill, the frequency of service and the 24-hour timetable. Plus, I ride several times a week and have never noticed a significant departure from estimated times, except along lower Euclid ... It seems time is made up in Midtown that compensates for slight delays between Public Square and the Theatre District.

any numbers from before construction began? Wasn't the 6 a similar route?

 

In 2004, before construction on Euclid started, the #6 bus route on Euclid boarded 2,941,560 riders (vs about 4.1 million riders in 2010 on the HealthLine). Gee, I'd call that an improvement.

 

That's the only year for which I have route-specific ridership data for all RTA bus routes (although I do have ridership data for Cleveland streetcar routes -- each of the top-five streetcar routes in the 1920s carried nearly as many people as the entire RTA system of today!).

 

KJP - 31 unpaid passes.

 

So while ridership data would be even better without fare-jumpers, the overall revenue may not be.  :-P

 

 

Thank you KJP

To clarify my eye roll up thread, I think that the Euclid Project was a total success, but the Healthline was only successful in that it managed to bring in federal/state funds for Euclid. Otherwise it under delevered IMO. If BRT is what we have to take to get infrastructure improvements, then it's acceptable. If cities want to push for BRT so that they can come up with funds to fix their roads, they should, but transit agencies like RTA should be fighting for modes of transportation that significantly improve the ride (whether frequency, comfort, speed or cost), and if they have to settle for BRT as a compromise, so be it. IMO I think from the Healthline we've seen that BRT is only a marginal improvement to the ride.

>is it 4 or 5 miles? -- I see different numbers out there

 

It is about 2.5 miles end-to-end.  The local media knows this subject and their own city so deficiently that they can't distinguish between track miles and route miles.

 

I rode the HealthLine about two years ago and don't think that it's successful in any way other than being somewhat faster and increasing the profile of buses.  But that's only part of what public transportation can do.  My main problem with it is the character of the streetscape, which I found to be mildly anti-pedestrian, not so much in how it actually functions, but that the stations just seem weird being out in the middle of the street and the way the lanes swerve makes for an unbalanced appearance.  In short, it doesn't feel "natural".  The deterioration of the station structures and concrete from the harsh winters was evident, despite it all just being a year or two old.   

 

If you haven't seen the modern streetcars in Portland, you can't really understand what was missed out on here.  The modern streetcars create a much more pleasant and harmonized streetscape.  They are much more successful in creating  a street hierarchy.  The ride is much smoother.  The stations are less conspicuous but you'd rather wait at them than in "capsules" in the middle of a street.   

 

 

>is it 4 or 5 miles? -- I see different numbers out there

 

It is about 2.5 miles end-to-end.  The local media knows this subject and their own city so deficiently that they can't distinguish between track miles and route miles.

 

It is 4+ miles from Public Square to the western edge of University Circle, the entire length of which is "double-tracked", lane-segregated BRT.  It then continues east another 2.4 miles or so on shared roadway with reconstructed sidewalks, shelters and limited streetscape improvements.  I suspect the route length confusion comes from distinguishing between the bus-only lanes and the shared roadway segments.

euclid ave corridor project finalist in national land-use prize

Thursday, April 07, 2011

 

Urban Land Institute (ULI) has announced 20 finalists for its 2011 Awards for Excellence: The Americas Competition, "widely recognized as the land use industry's most prestigious recognition program."

 

"The criteria for the awards include leadership, contribution to the community, innovations, public/private partnership, environmental protection and enhancement, response to societal needs, and financial viability."

 

http://www.freshwatercleveland.com/inthenews/euclidavenuelanduse040711.aspx

any numbers from before construction began? Wasn't the 6 a similar route?

 

In 2004, before construction on Euclid started, the #6 bus route on Euclid boarded 2,941,560 riders (vs about 4.1 million riders in 2010 on the HealthLine). Gee, I'd call that an improvement.

 

That's the only year for which I have route-specific ridership data for all RTA bus routes (although I do have ridership data for Cleveland streetcar routes -- each of the top-five streetcar routes in the 1920s carried nearly as many people as the entire RTA system of today!).

 

KJP - 31 unpaid passes.

 

So while ridership data would be even better without fare-jumpers, the overall revenue may not be.  :-P

 

A couple things to keep in mind when comparing year after year numbers. The 32 no longer goes downtown. Riders must switch to the Healthline now, so part of the healthline's increase would be #32 riders who would have just stayed on all the way into downtown. Also, I believe service on Cedar was cut down which would have moved passengers to the healthline. The frequency of other routes paralleling the healthline is much less which has caused people to walk a few blocks more to catch a more frequent bus on Euclid.

 

I'd like to see the total passenger numbers for all routes within a half mile of either direction of the health line to the east side to see if total ridership is increasing. It may be just be a matter of ridership shifting from one route to the other. This makes the healthline number increases look great, but are these really new passengers?

^ I would, too.

"Cleveland doesn’t often get recognition for being a leader in innovative transportation – but maybe it should. "

 

http://dc.streetsblog.org/2011/07/05/cleveland%E2%80%99s-center-running-brt-route-the-healthline-sparks-development/

Rode it three times. Nice concept, but I find what are newer vehicles already not well kept...dirty feeling and not reflective of the name "healthline"  If this is the city's main transport showpiece, it should be kept immaculate.

 

^ and lets add to that

 

Pittsburgh leaders envious of rta healthline, hope to duplicate its success

"A rare case of Cleveland envy is helping to fuel the latest proposal for improving transit service between Downtown [Pittsburgh] and Oakland,"

begins a recent article in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. What local officials in that town to the east covet in our own beloved town is the

RTA HealthLine, which uses energy-efficient bus rapid transit vehicles to connect Public Square with University Circle and beyond.Writing for the

Post-Gazette, Jon Schmitz says, "Local officials who visited that city's HealthLine, a 6.8-mile bus route with many of the attributes of a light-rail line,

want to build a similar system here."His research pointed out that Cleveland's HealthLine trimmed a formerly 30-minute ride to 18 minutes, while

boosting ridership and fueling some $4 billion in investment along the Euclid Avenue Corridor.

 

http://www.freshwatercleveland.com/inthenews/pittloveshealthline062311.aspx

 

"Cleveland doesn’t often get recognition for being a leader in innovative transportation – but maybe it should. "

 

http://dc.streetsblog.org/2011/07/05/cleveland%E2%80%99s-center-running-brt-route-the-healthline-sparks-development/

 

Nice article. Congrats!!

I rode the Healthline today, and I gotta say today was the most packed I've ever seen it.  It was 1:30 in the afternoon and every possible place to stand was taken.  I'm wondering if they'll consider having higher frequency of vehicles as University Circle, Cleveland Clinic, Cleveland State, and Midtown continue to expand.

Ive said this before, but 3:00 is the worst for what I have seen. There is times where the bus was to full to fit anybody else on. It was already far over capacity. I cant imagine trying to get off earlier than the rest of the crowd.

Its easy driving on Euclid Avenue to me because ive walked down the street and rode the bus countless times so I am familiar with how it works. I do see people less familiar get confused though. I wonder why they didn't paint the bus lane to separate it from the car lane like ive seen in other cities like NYC.

I saw this on facebook and it makes me really wish we had this on Euclid Avenue...

 

Whats the Daily Ridership on the Heathline?

Its easy driving on Euclid Avenue to me because ive walked down the street and rode the bus countless times so I am familiar with how it works. I do see people less familiar get confused though. I wonder why they didn't paint the bus lane to separate it from the car lane like ive seen in other cities like NYC.

 

The HL vehicles follow the same path as the streetcars once did. Reference old photos to see how they used center lanes while other traffic uses the outside lanes. Very similar, however a generation or two has never been accustomed to such a system.

Whats the Daily Ridership on the Heathline?

 

quick google search pulls this up:

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/04/healthline_sees_a_healthy_clim.html

Whats the Daily Ridership on the Heathline?

 

RTA does not keep daily ridership totals on specific lines. HealthLine ridership was 10 million for the first 30 months.

And the data I've seen from you Jerry is that HealthLine ridership this year is up 13 percent over last year. Almost as good as the Red Line's 20 percent rise! ;-)

I moved discussion of the HealthLine extension here:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,2768.msg578077.html#msg578077

Last night my wife and I participated in a focus group for the Cleveland Playhouse concerning their relocaton to the Allen theatre.  We went on a tour of new practice facilities building which is a block west of the Allen. These are state of the art rooms to be shared with CSU and several children's programs- very impressive!

 

While on the tour, the guide was telling us about some very cool educational programs for young people. Then, she paused and asked very carefully if we would be worried about us or our children having to walk outside down Euclid from the practice facility to the theatre.

 

Apparently so much was invested on the renovation that there was not enough money left over for gerbil tubes!

 

I immediately looked around the group of mostly older folks and commenced wincing. But much to my surprise, everyone on the tour emphatically supported the cheaper, more scenic "taking-the-sidewalk" option."

 

People gushed over the opportunity of being out on the street with all of the sights and sounds of the District. And one woman brought up that the children especially would love experiencing the unique qualities of Euclid Avenue, a setting that they may never get to experience at home in the suburbs.

 

Some people are coming around.

 

 

That is indeed heartening.

The Healthline already has too long of intervals and overcrowded busses. Extending it would only make an even worse nightmare.

 

I think you just stated why, if something gets built, will probably be an extension of the Red Line. They would have to run a lot of buses to handle the number of passengers over long routes taking a long time. That's a lot of labor, service hours and late-running buses. Why would buses run late? Because over longer routes, all it takes is one wheelchair passenger and that bus falls back in the service pattern, into the catchment timeframe of the next bus behind. So the slightly late bus starts picking up more passengers than it would normally, and it runs later and later. The bus behind it is having to pick up fewer passengers so it catches up to the bus ahead of it. Although this happens less on the HealthLine because it has level boarding and pre-payment of fares, we know it still happens. And then there is the signal preemption at intersections which never seems to work right....

 

Even before the HealthLine, the #6 bus ran with the same type of regular buses as the #28. The #6 ran the same route as the HealthLine runs today, from Windermere to downtown. Meanwhile the #28 ran along Euclid from Windermere to Euclid, carrying 1 million people per year, just as it does today. There's a reason why these were two separate routes then, even when they used the same kinds of buses -- because running the #6 all the way out to Euclid Square Mall would have overwhelmed that route and destroyed what reliability it had. By forcing a transfer from the #28 at Windermere, some of the riders transferred to the Red Line and some to the #6. When you don't force a transfer, it's only human nature to want to stay in the same seat. You might even match the train's travel time on a slower bus because you don't have to wait for the train.

 

By forcing a transfer at Windermere, the ridership gets dispersed between the Red Line and the #6, or the HealthLine today. If the HealthLine is extended out to Euclid, most if not all of the Euclid Avenue transit ridership east of Windermere would likely stay on the HealthLine west of Windermere. Because a two- or three-car Red Line train can carry 160 to 240 seated passengers with just one driver, it may be much more cost-effective to extend the Red Line.

 

Thanks for all that. Also what is the Health line supposed to be running at? Every 10 minutes? 15 minutes?

... Also what is the Health line supposed to be running at? Every 10 minutes? 15 minutes?

1 minute, 1 minute, 25 minutes, 1 minute, 1 minute, 25 minutes...    :wink:

1 minute, 1 minute, 25 minutes, 1 minute, 1 minute, 25 minutes...    :wink:

 

Awesome!

 

HealthLine timetable: http://www.riderta.com/pdf/HealthLine.pdf

So seems like every 10 minutes. It can be a half hour. What makes it worse is that you see 4 busses going by the opposite direction before one comes your direction.

 

... Also what is the Health line supposed to be running at? Every 10 minutes? 15 minutes?

1 minute, 1 minute, 25 minutes, 1 minute, 1 minute, 25 minutes...    :wink:

 

Hahhahaha

This just in...Ridership on the HealthLine has improved each month since service began. Ridership in September was up 9.8 percent. Total rides were 416,400, or 37,000 more than last year. That makes September its highest ridership month ever.

From my experience the bunching up of buses on the Healthline has gotten a bit better over time, but it's still a problem at the end of rush hour. I suppose that's just the nature of a Bus-(not so)-Rapid-Transit system.

 

Unfortunately I keep finding myself waiting for the Healthline around 7pm when it's near its worst.

This just in...Ridership on the HealthLine has improved each month since service began. Ridership in September was up 9.8 percent. Total rides were 416,400, or 37,000 more than last year. That makes September its highest ridership month ever.

 

Most days I cannot even find a seat during the day.  I hope they consider more vehicles running at a higher frequency in the near future!

^ I have had several times where you cant even find standing room! Thats annoying when you waited 25 minutes for the bus to come!

^I'd have to guess that the 25 minute wait is why it's standing room only.

Chances are there is likely another bus that's much less full right behind the really crowded one. It's a gamble to let the very full bus go by, but most times I've found that it does pay to wait just a little more.

I've had times where you cant even step on the bus so you just have to let it by(trust me i've been in it packed to the walls several times). And the next doesn't come for awhile. Its great to see it successful but they really need faster intervals to ease the overcrowding. It must be against some laws.

 

Dear Jmasek,

Who is responsible for the trees planted on the sidewalk of the lower Euclid Corridor?

I am talking specifically of the many dead ones in front of The 515 Euclid Ave parking garage and some around The PNC Bldg. Also, there are some in front of the House of Blues and alongside the 200 PS Bldg.

Generally speaking... anywhere on Euclid between E. 9th and Public Square.

 

The original ones planted in 2008 made it through a season before they died in Spring 2010. Then, replacements were planted autumn 2010. These (replacements) never bloomed this spring 2011, so all summer these bare twigs baked in the hot sun and continue to sit there as potential kindling and eyesores.

Looks podunk-y and emabarassing.

 

If RTA is not responsible...perhaps you know who is and I can re-direct my comments to them.

 

Thank you

 

 

^ The City of Cleveland is responsible for maintaining all trees. The Department of Urban Forestry is part of the Division of Parks Maintenance. Visit them on the Web at:

http://www.city.cleveland.oh.us/CityofCleveland/Home/Government/CityAgencies/ParksRecreationandProperties/DivisionofParkMaintenanceandProperties?_piref34_17237_34_3873_3873.tabstring=Urban%20Forestry

 

You can also send e-mail to Rick Silva, Commissioner of Parks Maintenance, [email protected]

 

I hope this helps.

 

Thanks for all the info

Re article in PD this a.m. an GCRTA's possibly getting more operating expenses $ next year and how it might go to improving the HealthLine frequency of runs. Mention is made of possible beefing up non-rush hour scheduling, but a way to do that would be to eliminate the loop that connects HealthLine with Univ. Rapid station. How is one to interpret this?

 

First of all, is the thought to eliminate the HealthLine's connecting with the station at all? That's what many of us originally thought was the plan, once RTA seemed convinced the 32 buses would only go back and forth from the Univ. station and eastward, that everyone would have to connect with the HealthLine on Euclid Ave. near E. 107th. The general image was the 32 making a regular loop between the station and Euclid Avenue. Then when the 32 stopped going downtown many of us were happily surprised to find the HealthLine actually would go to the Rapid station and back, enabling people, at least, to go inside when it's cold or rainy, etc.

 

Now it looks like RTA is considering the station connection again. That would be awful for many individuals. And if the 32 wouldn't even make that extra loop to Euclid - horrors!

 

Now, what would this mean?  For starters, if the HealthLine were not to connect with the Rapid station the buses would almost always have to make that extra loop to Euclid. Extra cost/time for RTA. Second, they've been planning a brand new, multi-million $ Rapid station. If the HealthLine doesn't even go there it's a waste to not have the people from the 32,  7 , and 9 even wait at that station. A big chunk of the prospective users, I'm sure.

 

What would really make a significant difference to many of us, of course, would be for GCRTA to consider INSTEAD beefing up the suburban runs again - i.e. returning the downtown connection to the 32s, more 9s, etc. That would make all our lives go more smoothly! If they don't go that "extra mile" the least they can do is allow for more runs, like with our 32. That 35-minute gap in the evening rush hour - from 5:21 p.m. to 5:56 p.m. - is particularly obnoxious. Any little delay in the HealthLine getting there (and it happens frequently) from downtown and everyone has to wait up to 35 minutes, at such an important station and connection and common hour!  A sham!

Re article in PD this a.m. an GCRTA's possibly getting more operating expenses $ next year and how it might go to improving the HealthLine frequency of runs. Mention is made of possible beefing up non-rush hour scheduling, but a way to do that would be to eliminate the loop that connects HealthLine with Univ. Rapid station. How is one to interpret this?

 

First of all, is the thought to eliminate the HealthLine's connecting with the station at all? That's what many of us originally thought was the plan, once RTA seemed convinced the 32 buses would only go back and forth from the Univ. station and eastward, that everyone would have to connect with the HealthLine on Euclid Ave. near E. 107th. The general image was the 32 making a regular loop between the station and Euclid Avenue. Then when the 32 stopped going downtown many of us were happily surprised to find the HealthLine actually would go to the Rapid station and back, enabling people, at least, to go inside when it's cold or rainy, etc.

 

Now it looks like RTA is considering the station connection again. That would be awful for many individuals. And if the 32 wouldn't even make that extra loop to Euclid - horrors!

 

Now, what would this mean?  For starters, if the HealthLine were not to connect with the Rapid station the buses would almost always have to make that extra loop to Euclid. Extra cost/time for RTA. Second, they've been planning a brand new, multi-million $ Rapid station. If the HealthLine doesn't even go there it's a waste to not have the people from the 32,  7 , and 9 even wait at that station. A big chunk of the prospective users, I'm sure.

 

What would really make a significant difference to many of us, of course, would be for GCRTA to consider INSTEAD beefing up the suburban runs again - i.e. returning the downtown connection to the 32s, more 9s, etc. That would make all our lives go more smoothly! If they don't go that "extra mile" the least they can do is allow for more runs, like with our 32. That 35-minute gap in the evening rush hour - from 5:21 p.m. to 5:56 p.m. - is particularly obnoxious. Any little delay in the HealthLine getting there (and it happens frequently) from downtown and everyone has to wait up to 35 minutes, at such an important station and connection and common hour!  A sham!

 

Here is the article (not sure why it wasn't posted)

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/11/rta_wants_to_expand_service_as.html

 

I think the idea is to get those going to Univ. Circle to transfer only to the Cleveland Rapid, period.  I applaud this move.  All buses should stop at Cleveland Rapid stations and not be "through" service stations.  IIRC, having the health line route over to the University station was an after thought.  Those riding the No. 9 east of E.105/Stearns/MLK and Mayfield Rd., can transfer to the HL at stations on Euclid.  Those needing to get to the Clinic can transfer at Univ. Circle to the 48/48A.  So there is still coverage.  Clevelanders have been spoiled by one seat service on buses as opposed to having buses feed the rail lines.

 

There were several routes and frequencies cut over the past decade.  I would like to see the monies used so that the Cleveland and Shaker Rapids had 10 min. departures, for non rush hour periods, as in the past.  Returning to those frequencies would help tremendously.  You cannot call a system "rapid" with 10/15 min. departures.

 

In addition, I would like to see a to 4 minute departures (from TC) for Shaker Trains during rush hour.  IIRC, the Cleveland Rapid has 5 min departures (from/to TC) with three car trains to Brookpark to supplement the regular schedule.

^ Thanks for your input. I talked to several people at RTA, and here is the best answer I can give you.

 

"When the HealthLine changes (spring at the earliest), RTA will extend the #7 and #32 to connect with the HealthLine at Euclid Avenue during some time periods. Many details will be worked out during the winter."

 

I realize that this answer may not satisfy the never-ending desire for more details, but it will have to do for now, while details are still being worked out.

 

Thanks for riding RTA.

Well I sure hope if the 32 has to be extended to Euclid Avenue, making that extra loop, that it's not during rush hours. It makes a big difference to many of us on the 7s, 9, or 32s, in being able to at least be at the real (Univ. Rapid) station in inclement weather - which are so many days of the year.

Also, many more of us are more affected by not having the 32s and others go downtown than just making the Healthline run more frequently. And, again, more important big gaps in times between bus routes from the Univ. Rapid station should be eliminated (e.g. that 35-minute gap in 32 runs in evening rush hour); adding a run or two to shrink those gaps more important than if people wait on Euclid, say, 10 min. vs. 12 min.

Well I sure hope if the 32 has to be extended to Euclid Avenue, making that extra loop, that it's not during rush hours. It makes a big difference to many of us on the 7s, 9, or 32s, in being able to at least be at the real (Univ. Rapid) station in inclement weather - which are so many days of the year.

 

Also, many more of us are more affected by not having the 32s and others go downtown than just making the Healthline run more frequently. And, again, more important big gaps in times between bus routes from the Univ. Rapid station should be eliminated (e.g. that 35-minute gap in 32 runs in evening rush hour); adding a run or two to shrink those gaps more important than if people wait on Euclid, say, 10 min. vs. 12 min.

 

Please help me understand you.  What is your destination?

This additional funding reported in the PD this morning is an important story. And since it is mostly of a general, systemwide matter, it should probably be discussed in the general RTA thread:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,4504.0.html

 

Please help me understand you.  What is your destination?

 

 

 

Live near Cedar/Lee, work downtown but not near Tower City.