Just throwing this out there, but would it be feasible to extend the Healthline route over to the Medical Mart?  The route would be right on Rockwell (which I think is a one way street however) left onto West Mall Drive, left on St. Clair to the MM front door, then left onto Ontario to link up with the existing route around PS.  Maneuvering the articulating buses through those turns might be too much of a challenge.  It is currently ONLY 1 block to walk to the current route but linking the Healthline with the Healthcare MM makes sense.

It's half of a block away, and you can get between the HealthLine station and MM/CC by cutting through Key Tower/Marriott. If anything, there should be a HealthLine station shelter added to the NE quadrant of Public Square to serve the MM/CC better.

It's half of a block away, and you can get between the HealthLine station and MM/CC by cutting through Key Tower/Marriott. If anything, there should be a HealthLine station shelter added to the NE quadrant of Public Square to serve the MM/CC better.

 

That was the other thing I was thinking of too...  a larger shelter at the location you mentioned.

Did they add a small one there? I don't see one on GoogleEarth and I'm too lazy to go over there and look.

Did they add a small one there? I don't see one on GoogleEarth and I'm too lazy to go over there and look.

 

I think there is a raised portion, or it is designed to look like their other stations, on the Northeast quad.

It's half of a block away, and you can get between the HealthLine station and MM/CC by cutting through Key Tower/Marriott. If anything, there should be a HealthLine station shelter added to the NE quadrant of Public Square to serve the MM/CC better.

 

The NE quadrant has a dedicated platform for debarking passengers. The way the HealthLine is currently configured, this is the LAST stop, so people are only dropped off there. There is (was?) no need for a shelter. The first stop on the HealthLine is on East Roadway, with a main stop across the street from the Horseshoe Casino.

 

OPINION: I do not believe that RTA will put up any more shelters on Public Square until the future of the Square is decided by the Mayor's group that is looking at closing it off to some or all traffic.

Si. Comprendo.

I'm posting this here, rather than on the RTA forum, because it concerns the HealthLine and Euclid Avenue and I don't want the thread to get buried on the more general forum. GCRTA's made it much worse for us - mainly commuters - who live in the Heights and work downtown to get to and from work daily when we all became forced to transfer each direction. Once again there are plans to make the trip even less enjoyable with the elimination "next spring" of the HealthLines, during rush hours, coming up to the Univ. Rapid Station. With all Healthlines those times scheduled to run approx. 5 min. apart, if they remain on schedule which has so many times not been the case, I realize in transferring from a 32 to the HealthLine during rush hour in the a.m. it may not be too bad waiting outdoors on Euclid Ave. for hopefully no longer than approx. 5 minutes; my main concerns are the evening rush hours....

 

Not having the option to wait indoors in the heated rapid station will be very bad for many of us in the inclement weather - which is so much of the time in Cleveland. It is also very important for some passengers to sit while waiting. How will this be addressed on Euclid when many will be dropped off by the HealthLine and have to wait outdoors for the 32 (or 9 or 7 or whatever) and it's a heavy rain, snow, below 10 degrees, etc? There are currently ridiculously long waits - during rush hours, yet at the Rapid Station, such as the notorious gap for 32's from 5:21 pm to 5:56 pm. Were the HealthLine delayed  (happens a great deal), or we just miss it, one currently has to wait up to approx. 35 minutes at that unappealing station, but at least we can wait inside. Are you expecting us (sometimes a crowd) to be waiting outside on Euclid for up to that time (even longer non-rush hour times)? 

 

Are you prepared to construct new, fair-sized, covered shelters on Euclid so at least we don't have to be out in the rain or snow?  I'm sorry but it sounds wretched - a sizable group of individuals of all ages and many health conditions - being totally exposed to the elements on Euclid awaiting the eastward buses for 10 or 20 or even over 30 minutes in 5 degree weather or a hard, cold rain.  Or a blizzard.  Horrible!

 

And to the individual here who stated the rapid stations were never intended for buses - do you ever take two forms of transit on a regular bases in the really rotten weather, having to transfer and wait awhile entirely exposed to the elements?  PEOPLE are what should be of the highest concern here. :x

well said.

And to the individual here who stated the rapid stations were never intended for buses - do you ever take two forms of transit on a regular bases in the really rotten weather, having to transfer and wait awhile entirely exposed to the elements?  PEOPLE are what should be of the highest concern here. :x

 

Whoever said that doesn't know about the design of the Rapid stations with their bus layover areas or how the CTS bus system was redesigned around the new east-west Rapid line so that buses could feed into it.

I'm probably thinking of this post:

 

I think the idea is to get those going to Univ. Circle to transfer only to the Cleveland Rapid, period.  I applaud this move.  All buses should stop at Cleveland Rapid stations and not be "through" service stations.  IIRC, having the health line route over to the University station was an after thought.  Those riding the No. 9 east of E.105/Stearns/MLK and Mayfield Rd., can transfer to the HL at stations on Euclid.  Those needing to get to the Clinic can transfer at Univ. Circle to the 48/48A.  So there is still coverage.  Clevelanders have been spoiled by one seat service on buses as opposed to having buses feed the rail lines.

 

There were several routes and frequencies cut over the past decade.  I would like to see the monies used so that the Cleveland and Shaker Rapids had 10 min. departures, for non rush hour periods, as in the past.  Returning to those frequencies would help tremendously.  You cannot call a system "rapid" with 10/15 min. departures

 

Again - I don't think this person has a clue what it's like taking this sort of commute every day with the long and undependendable transfer, in all kinds of weather.  On a regular, indefinite basis. :x

Then propose a solution.

I do my job, now you people - transit professionals who are supposed to have all the ridership and financial statistics and engineering expertise at your disposal, but also care about the public

- please do yours.

OK, let me restate the question. What do you want? What are your preferences? What do you view as an ideal solution(s) for YOU?

Ok, here's a solution that might not work in real life, but sortof works in my head. It might solve lafont's problem, but would cause other problems.

 

Currently, all the Healthline buses run from Public Square to University Circle, from there half the buses turn NE and continue to East Cleveland as the Healthline was originally intended. The other half turn SE and go half a mile or so to the University Circle rapid station, where they meet the Red Line, 7, 9, and 32. RTA has proposed ending the short branch south to the rapid station and will instead send all the Healthline buses up to East Cleveland and extending the 7, 9, and 32. This is a problem for some riders (such as lafont) because it's a pain to wait on Euclid for a connection. Everyone together so far?

 

Now I don't know what the ridership #s look like for the Healthline between University Circle and East Cleveland, but from my experience, that's the least used portion of the Healthline. (Heading east from downtown I can usually get a seat after we pass University Circle.) So it doesn't make sense to me to add capacity to that portion of the Healthline. Instead, if RTA has the capability of extending the shortened Healthline routes, I'd push half the Healthline buses up the hill into the heights.

 

The Healthline buses currently ending at the University Circle rapid station could just continue on from there up Euclid Heights blvd to Coventry to Mayfield and then take Mayfield to Severence Town Center. From a really quick glance at the map, Severence is roughly the same distance from University Circle as Windermere.

 

The 7 (Monticello) could just take Taylor down to Severence, then it wouldn't need to go all the way to University Circle.

 

The 9 (Mayfield) could just stop at Severence instead of continuing to UC, or could continue on Mayfield down to the new Rapid station in little Italy.

 

The 32 (Cedar) could continue as it has been the last few months to the UC rapid station.

 

If I'm wrong and there is high enough ridership between UC and Windermere then I suppose my idea wouldn't work, but I figure that shortening the 7 & 9 and giving a one seat ride to folks traveling between Coventry and UC or Downtown is worth extending the Healthline up the hill. Plus then anyone transferring to the 7 or 9 can wait in Severence if the weather is bad, and anyone transferring to the 32 can wait at the rapid station when transferring.

 

There, it doesn't take a transit professional to make a suggestion.

You just made me realize something..... If the HealthLine buses free up seats/space east of University Circle even with half of the rush-hour buses already going to UC-Cedar, then why are we adding capacity on the section east to Windermere?

 

Why not run several of the rush-hour 7s, 9s and 32s express from UC-Cedar to downtown? They could stop at Public Square, East 9th and one of the CSU stops then run nonstop to UC-Cedar. The rest of the 7s, 9s and 32s to/from the Heights would run to Euclid Avenue to enlarged waiting areas (temporary facilities at first).

 

Then, instead of running the UC-Cedar HealthLine buses out to Windermere, run extra rush-hour HealthLine buses only between downtown and the UC-Cedar station. I'd have to see what this does to vehicle service hours, but it doesn't seem like the capacity problem is east of UC. It's west of there, correct?

Thanks, guys.  Keith - I greatly appreciate your expressing some creative ideas.  One error; HealthLine trips only go to Univ. Cir. station certain parts of the day. Other times we already can't take the HealthLine from downtown and connect with a 32 there. 

 

KJP: As to my ideal? That's simple: bring back at least as many 32s and 9s going downtown as there were 2 0r 3 years ago! It still didn't exist, in my time, all day long but it made a tremendous difference being at least a rush hours!  This was A GIVEN for many decades, important in marketing the Heights area, making it appealing for apartment dwellers and homebuyers. The Heights area has been well built up for over 80 years and it's almost unbelievable this happened to us - did not receive the HIGHEST type of priority in planning. Then the problem began a few yrs. ago when these "through" buses were taken away from us, it all got further exaporating with shoddy service - two (and sometimes even three) of the same HealthLine coming in a row downtown, long gaps of 10 or 15+ minute gaps between HealthLlines, and that scheduled 35-minute gap between 32s going from Rapid station eastward from 5:21 pm to 5:56 pm (!!!) in rush hour.

 

Second most ideal solution - fill the gap between 5:21 and 5:56 with at least one 32 bus! And, along with that, please do more to get all them HealthLines to follow the established schedules.  There's been an improvement in the ones I take but not that much.

Thanks, guys.  Keith - I greatly appreciate your expressing some creative ideas.  One error; HealthLine trips only go to Univ. Cir. station certain parts of the day. Other times we already can't take the HealthLine from downtown and connect with a 32 there. 

All I know is there seems to always a bus headed to the UC station when I'm trying to get to Windermere.    :-) Good luck.

I think running rush-hour 9 and 32 buses through to downtown should be considered. This is starting to get into the realm of the general RTA thread, but as long as we're talking HealthLine, I don't understand why RTA would buses on the HealthLine east of UC when the capacity problem is west of UC. I would think running rush-hour 9 and 32 buses would address this without having to add all the vehicle service hours from running more HealthLine buses east of UC to address a problem that doesn't seem to exist there.

I think running rush-hour 9 and 32 buses through to downtown should be considered. This is starting to get into the realm of the general RTA thread, but as long as we're talking HealthLine, I don't understand why RTA would buses on the HealthLine east of UC when the capacity problem is west of UC. I would think running rush-hour 9 and 32 buses would address this without having to add all the vehicle service hours from running more HealthLine buses east of UC to address a problem that doesn't seem to exist there.

 

according to RTA, there is a significant capacity issue east of UC, which is why they are proposing to go back to the original routing.  during rush hours, the every-other-bus set up is not providing enough capacity.

"according to RTA, there is a significant capacity issue east of UC, which is why they are proposing to go back to the original routing...."  Not really "original" routing....

 

This may have been the plan before the HealthLine started running, but GCRTA had the decency to consider all the inviduals on the 32s, 9s, and 7s and extend at least the rush hour HealthLines to the Rapid station - from day one in the actual HealthLine scheduling. Then many problems in the buses' actually following the written schedules have regularly occurred to make the whole situation worse for us.

What's this? Riders, beginning in March, '12, will be transferring between the 7, 9, and 32 buses and the HealthLine at The Clinic?  That's what the new GCRTA e-letter is stating.  Is this really going to happen?  Why there and not in the heart of University Circle, such as near top of the Fine Arts Lagoon where the HealthLine currently enters and leaves Euclid Avenue? Is there a sizable, heated station in the Clinic vicinity everyone can wait in on those horrid days? I don't believe there is, so is one to be built or installed very soon?  Otherwise, why would everyone be waiting down there by the Clinic?

 

Where did this idea come from and how likely is it this the plan that will stick?  Meanwhile the commuters between the Heights and downtown have been forced to change routes so many times in the past four or five years (with all that construction along Euclid, etc.) it's positively dizzying!

The huge parking garage fronted by offices on Euclid at East 93rd is actually an intermodal transportation center. It was funded by the federal government as such, and I believe GCRTA signed off on it and would have bus/passenger waiting facilities in it. For more, see:

 

http://www.noaca.org/euclide93.html

Okay; this could get interesting. The NOACA project link tells of the original plans for the garage, but what is known about RTA's actual 2012 plans regarding new bus/HealthLine transfers there?  GCRTA's e-news of today is the very first hint of such a plan that's come out, with nothing said in the PD's recent articles or anything on GCRTA's website.

 

Meanwhile, it seems terribly ironic that GCRTA's expecting increased funding for 2012, and subsequent "improved" service anticipated, would actually create decreased service for us Heights-downtown commuters (e.g. waiting outdoors in miserable weather - particularly in evenings)....

lafont, keep in mind that these changes will provide riders of the 7, 9 and 32 routes a one seat ride to the clinic, which should be a big improvement for Heights commuters.  This is the preferred arrangement some of us proposed back when RTA first shortened these routes.  Assuming RTA can come up with a decent transit waiting environment for the new transfer point (which is really only needed for eastbound 7, 9 and 32, given the HL stations already in service), the changes shouldn't have a negative impact on anyone.

Fine, but many of us are not connected with the Cleveland Clinic, so that's no clear improvement for us, so far. Personally, my wife and I are connected with University Hospitals and its auxiliaries in various locations.  There will only be an overall "improvement" if the waiting area at the Clinic is more comfortable/attractive than the current Rapid station, which at least has heat, if not much else to offer (any more).  If it loses many of the passengers waiting there on workdays will that affect the design for the new station across the street that's taking for ever to be built?

 

So, again, who knows what is planned at the Clinic for us ever-shoved-around Hts. resident downtown commuters? If we're talking as soon as March, 2012 something had better be in place pronto. :-(

Check out the Clinic-East 93rd waiting area on Google Streetview. I just passed by it earlier today, and noticed that it is much closer to the street in reality than it appears on Streetview.

 

But I agree that at least several through buses running express to downtown would improve service for Heights commuters as well as relieve overcrowding on HealthLine buses.

 

BTW, I was absolutely ASTONISHED at how many were riding the HealthLine and waiting at stations along the route at about the lunch hour today. The buses and stations were jammed not just in downtown or UC, but at some of the Midtown stops like at East 30th, East 40th and East 79th. There had to have been a dozen people at each of those stations, and at least as many at the downtown and UC stations. The buses were SRO.

 

OK, time for a subway!!! ;-)

OK, time for a subway!!! ;-)

 

Troublemaker.  :whip:

... Tuesday night, around 8:45-9p-ish was pretty slow downtown, but there was a decent buzz along Euclid... We were heading toward Tower City at E. 2nd, when a jam packed Healthline bus pulled up to the stop and (practically completely) unloaded.  Folks (and I don't recall seeing anybody who looked over 30; maybe even 25), streamed from the "station" to across the street along with us heading, also, to TC -- suddenly we were amidst a hoard.  I noted a few folks headed south on Ontario while a few others headed toward other bus stops... one guy went into Cadillac Ranch.  Everybody else went into Tower City, down the escalator to the Rapid -- the bulk went to the Red Line; some, Blue/Green (like us)... [we decided to grab a drink and what NCAA basketball on the tube,... er, flat screen, at Tower 230, which unlike the rest of the closed-up Tower City, was buzzing with activity -- the bar area was nearly full; great to see]

 

But, yes Martha, lots of folks are using the Health Line and the Red Line, now happily, running at least 2-car trains at all times of day -- with, thankfully, that foolish front car used/2nd car empty trailer, policy being a thing of the past...

Rode on the HealthLine yesterday and didn't see any structure near main entrance to Clinic, the circle at E. 93rd, looking even remotely like a heated station where people can wait in bad weather and quickly come out to catch a HealthLine or eastbound bus. Nothing!

Take a look here:

http://tinyurl.com/7xw2zvm

I thought maybe that corner but it's not labeled as a waiting place now and can everyone really wait in there and get out on time to make the HealthLine? Not sure what the sight lines are, etc.

 

Actually, all this depends on where the stop is for those going east during evening rush hour. I'm not too worried about the mornings, as I don't expect waits to be too long and it's been basically palatable changing at the Rapid station. The big concern is the evening, so which side of Euclid would individuals be waiting on from, say, 4:30-6:30 pm?  If it's not the side with that parking garage space in front this whole consideration is useless. The glassy area on the Clinic entrance, by the loop, doesn't look very close to me. And everyone would have to cross the street to get to the HealthLine.  Not very good.

 

Obviously, we need a heated area right by the pickup for bad weather, or at least enough opportunity to see the HealthLine coming from a building on the side and cross the street!  Some people will need to sit, too. :x

Not it's not labeled as a waiting area. That's not what it's used for right now. But I believe it was designed so it could be used as one.

 

And that space could be used for all transfers, including in the afternoon. Passengers could exit eastbound HealthLine buses, cross Euclid to the north side, and wait inside the building. Connecting buses to the Heights could board from East 93rd where those buses might stop after looping around the fountains.

 

Keep in mind that's just a guess on my part. That's not based on any insight of what RTA could/would/should do because I have no information on RTA's plans are.

 

But perhaps Jerry might wish to chime in on what RTA's plans are.

I cannot speak for what the Cleveland Clinic may be doing or building.

 

If I understand the question properly, then the answer is: RTA is not planning anything additional at that intersection.

 

 

JMasek: Do you mean you are not even aware of plans for the 32s and 9s to now connect with the HealthLine at Euclid and E. 93rd?  If that happens there needs to be a decent facility for riders - of all ages and health conditions - to wait there awhile in inclement weather, which is so much of the time!

JMasek: Do you mean you are not even aware of plans for the 32s and 9s to now connect with the HealthLine at Euclid and E. 93rd?  If that happens there needs to be a decent facility for riders - of all ages and health conditions - to wait there awhile in inclement weather, which is so much of the time!

 

The question -- and my answer -- dealt with a facility, not with service changes. Precise details of the service changes will be announced shortly.

^^Do cold climate cities usually provide indoor facilities for major connections? I always just thought you get off one bus, wait outside unless you're fortunate enough to have an insulated stop, then transfer onto the upcoming bus. Obviously it would be nice if there were a warm facility for riders, but is this the norm?

Okay; this could get interesting. The NOACA project link tells of the original plans for the garage, but what is known about RTA's actual 2012 plans regarding new bus/HealthLine transfers there?  GCRTA's e-news of today is the very first hint of such a plan that's come out, with nothing said in the PD's recent articles or anything on GCRTA's website.

 

this is an "intermodal" facility for federal funding purposes only, and in practice is meant to be a parking garage for cars.  Similar to the intermodal transportation center (parking garage) that was built for the art museum.

 

as for the specific waiting environment, perhaps some use case scenarios as well as possible improvements could be posted.  the clinic in the past had heated shelters for its own shuttle buses and smoking pavilions, and there seems to be an opportunity to create a decent waiting environment somewhere in this vicinity - but what is the proposal?

 

having attended the service cut public meeting in cleveland heights, maybe almost 2 years ago now, i can tell you that there were numerous comments from people that wanted to get to the clinic on a 1 seat ride.

TBideon: Yes, as someone who has worked decades in an area related to transit planning, I can safely say - yes - it is normal in the larger cities with coldier/rainier weather to have enclosed, heated shelters wherever people have to wait between transit lines.  And we have a great many of the cold and rainier days and, now, far too many longer waits between connections, even in rush hour.

 

The larger, most humane transit-riding environments have whole, walkable stations with take-out places, shops, etc. Think New York, London, Paris, Chicago, Boston, Toronto, etc. but many cities far smaller and less imporant than those, as well, if they get a lot of snow, etc.

 

I don't expect much emphasis on every stop; riders can try to pace their time such that they get to a station about the right time.  I'm talking people who (now) have to connect from one transit to another are forced to wait awhile between the lines. In our case just to get between a very-urban, 110+-year old inner suburb area and the city's hub.

 

TBideon - I'm guessing you are not one who makes a bus/HealthLine connection every work day, if ever. If not, please imagine for a moment having to wait outdoors in, say, a gusty 20 degrees or in heavy snow or icy rain. For 25 minutes, without the ability to read a book or a newspaper.  Just standing there.

Yeah, but at least ridership numbers technically double as a result of these transfers. You win some, you lose some.  :roll:

 

 

The doubling of ridership is of absolutely no benefit to us commuters.

Okay - I think this Cleveland Clinic connection might work if HealthLine vehicles are allowed to go around the allee, between Euclid and Chester, for their turnarounds. They have to turn around somewhere.... And then the many passengers going eastward in the evening rush hour, forced to have to wait somewhere between buses, can wait inside the glassy area inside the parking garage. If I'm gaging it right, which I'm trying to do while my buses go past there in the dark, the HealthLine going eastward is closer to that (side) side - right?

 

How can we make this happen? If we can wait inside that (assumably heated in cold weather) space, and still catch the HealtLine in evenin rush hour, this latest "plan" might be tolerable.

 

Btw, where in the "riderta.com" pages are descriptions of plans for the various routes? Breckenridge's PD article this a.m. gave the webpage for further details.

No, the RTA website does not really give any details of interest related to this matter. :?

^ As you have noted, the changes are planned for spring, probably in March -- four months from now. Details are still being worked out. As soon as they are available, I will post them here.

 

In the meantime, I can point you to a PDF of a PowerPoint presentation that was presented to the Board on Nov. 15. The presentation contains highlights of the 2012 Service Management Plan, and was part of discussions on the proposed 2012 budget.

 

On Dec. 6, the Board voted to approve the budget, which takes effect Jan. 1.

 

http://www.riderta.com/usercontent/file/2011-11-15-ServicePlan.pdf

 

Yes, thanks. I didn't look at the Powerpoint yet but see I wrote my proposal yesterday wrong.  Should have suggested the 32 or 7 (or 9?) buses go around that water feature allee when they turn around to go back up the hill into the Heights during evening rush hour. Then, if allowed, we could wait in that parking garage building until the bus shows up quite close and the turns left on Euclid. I don't know how this gels with the current traffic pattern of the two E. 93rd portions and the possibility of turning left on Euclid to go east but I think this could work with the right traffic pattern allowed.

 

Yesterday it is probably in the high 30s around 5:30 pm at the Univ. Rapid station - no snow, rain, or high wind, and I noticed almost all passengers were waiting inside the building. Very few cared to wait outside.  There must have been 20 of us inside.  Does that tell you something? :?

Yesterday it is probably in the high 30s around 5:30 pm at the Univ. Rapid station - no snow, rain, or high wind, and I noticed almost all passengers were waiting inside the building. Very few cared to wait outside.  There must have been 20 of us inside.  Does that tell you something? :?

Tells me Clevelanders are getting soft!  :-D

Yesterday it is probably in the high 30s around 5:30 pm at the Univ. Rapid station - no snow, rain, or high wind, and I noticed almost all passengers were waiting inside the building. Very few cared to wait outside.  There must have been 20 of us inside.  Does that tell you something? :?

Tells me Clevelanders are getting soft!  :-D

 

ROFLMAO!  Good one!

Maybe this belongs on the HL Thread..not sure.. But was wondering if anyone knows why those cool public art lightning bolt looking light displays on the HL at PHS have only one working? Is this temporary or are they broken? This is a part of the HL RTA Corridor, isn't it?

Maybe this belongs on the HL Thread..not sure.. But was wondering if anyone knows why those cool public art lightning bolt looking light displays on the HL at PHS have only one working? Is this temporary or are they broken? This is a part of the HL RTA Corridor, isn't it?

 

I'm actually friends with the artist.  Don't expect them to be fix anytime soon.  I'm not exactly sure what happened but he says it's an expensive repair, and he doesn't want to pay out of his own pocket...

I like those a lot, and it's unacceptable to leave them inoperative for an extended period.  It's also unacceptable that the artist would have to pay out of pocket.  Outdoor lighting needs regular maintenance and that shouldn't be blamed on the artist at this point. 

 

I'm fed up with RTA refusing to maintain the Health Line and trying to shift the responsibility to others.  This notion that individual property owners have to maintain the landscaping is absurd.  The whole idea was to help them, not to fling ongoing expenses at them.  That kind of behavior makes it more difficult to muster the support we need for future transit expansions.