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5 hours ago, Gramarye said:

When urbanists talk about preserving green spaces, we generally mean planned public green spaces that allow for human recreation on a fairly large scale.  The Columbus and Franklin County Metro Parks are green spaces.  The Cuyahoga Valley National Park is a green space, vastly larger than the private agricultural land that is the site of this proposed development.  Green space advocacy is not supposed to be a backdoor for NIMBYism--green spaces should be part of high quality development, not alternatives to it.

 

I think of the green belts in England when I think of preserving green space. The one around London is 1,200,031 acres and the one around Manchester is 612,000 acres. For comparison, Columbus Metro Parks combined are 28,000 acres. Green belts aim to stop urban sprawl and preserve the character of towns. They’re not about the quality and appearance of the land, though I’m sure that’s a nice side benefit in some instances. We don’t have this (that I’m aware of) in America and its a shame. Granville’s green space program attempts to provide a similar function, on a much smaller scale. You can call this NIMBYism and nostalgic but there is real value there. Suburban development causes real issues and to simply dismiss this is shortsighted. Additionally, humans aren’t the only one’s that occupy this area and that needs to be respected. It won’t happen, but Columbus would benefit from a green belt around the outside of New Albany, Westerville, Delaware, etc. Perhaps that would encourage more dense, well planned developments, connected to serious mass transit. 

 

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5 hours ago, Gramarye said:

Perpetual growth is not guaranteed.  But neither is eventual decline. 

 

 

Not growing does not equate to decline. The earth has finite resources and we need to find a sustainable equilibrium. As societies become more prosperous and innovation spreads (i.e. vaccines, birth control, utilities, etc) birth rates decline. In the somewhat near future, population will peak. Additionally, America has had a huge advantage with the dollar being the world's reserve currency. There is no guarantee that this will continue, that the American economy will prosper or that America will continue to be attractive to foreigners/outside investment. The effects of climate change are also a huge wild card.

 

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5 hours ago, Gramarye said:

6 hours ago, Gramarye said:

Columbus is a growing metro area (in fact, I think it's the fastest-growing in the state, though I don't follow those figures as closely as I once did). 

 

 

At one point Cleveland and Cincinnati could make that claim as well. In 1950 Cincinnati had 503,000 residents; today that figure is 303,000. In the late 1920s the largest employer in Mansfield had 8,500 employees; today the largest employer in Mansfield has 2,500 employees. Things change. It might be remote work, artificial intelligence or something else, but Columbus and its suburbs will not grow forever. In sum, I am not against development but I'd like to see smarter development in areas that could benefit the most from it (while preserving green space). 

We cant talk about all of these other side issues until the sun comes up, but ultimately, this proposed development is a GOOD thing.  Its great for the city of Newark and this will be a net positive for the Newark/Heath/Granville metro.  This is one of the last pieces of land to be developed in Newark City that would really have an impact on Granville schools.  Again, Granville should worry less about Newark at this point and worry more about Pataskala and New Albany.  The 161/37 and 161/310 interchanges are going to BOOM with development over the next decade.  There are "For Sale" signs all along 161 with huge acreage signs.  We are talking for sale signs that say anywhere from 50-800 acres.  Those are the developments Granville needs to start preparing for...not this...this development is a GOOD thing!! I have seen the renderings of this development (inside source..dont hate lol)...and its going to be beautiful.  In my opinion, this area has turned into the most beautiful in all of Licking County to live.  It's always the sticker shock that causes the panic.  When you step back and look at it, i truly don't believe this is going to be some monumental development that Granville schools cant overcome.  Great conversation!!

 

Edited January 26, 20214 yr by OhioFinest

This is basically just a repeat of every single development which may have some slight impact on Granville. It's the same story every time. Granville won't do anything that is even a minuscule inconvenience for the town but will happily do whatever they want without care for how it impacts the neighbors. It's the picture perfect NIMBY town. They had no problem spending millions to renovate the football field but won't accept residential growth because they may have to possibly think about a new school building at some point in the future. The fact of the matter is they are directly next to a growing city of 50k+ people and are right off 16 with easy access to Columbus. I'm all for preserving the ascetics and small town feel of The Village of Granville, but Granville as a whole needs to make some moves on how to turn the developments happening around them into a positive for the Village and the Township. The developments are coming whether they like it or not, fighting them is just a waste of everyones time and money. Essentially every single school district in Licking County is making improvements and even construction (or recently constructed) new school buildings to account for present and future growth. If Granville just sits on their thumbs and pretends growth isn't happening, eventually their schools won't be able to fit everyone anyways since they so clearly don't want to plan for future growth. And this is a school district that throws money away on a yearly basis. I've been in all of those schools. They've got money and some room to grown. The maintenance guy told me all about all the expensive electronics he gets to take home because the school just tosses them in the trash. They need to get their priorities straight or being anti-growth will really come back to bite them in the future.

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On 1/26/2021 at 8:17 AM, OhioFinest said:

I have seen the renderings of this development (inside source..dont hate lol)...and its going to be beautiful.

 

I get that this is a development fourm and that NIMBY is going to be looked at negatively but I want to reiterate that there is a middle ground for everything. Without NIMBY and discussion you get developments that could have been a better fit for their community. Once these houses are built they will be there for 100+ years. It's not enough to simply insist that a development is good and that pushback is a waste of time. I'm glad you think the development will look good but the developers interest and the communities interest are likely at odds, so I hope there is compromise (density, design and funding structure for the schools). Not directed at this development in particular but the real shame to me is that we no longer develop anything other than tract housing. When I keep saying this growth would be better directed at Newark, it's because I admire the street grids of Newark with their connected neighborhoods, variety of architecture and walkability. Neighborhoods that have room for new development. Same thing with the Village of Granville, minus as much room for development. I guess it would be considered idealistic in our current reality but we as a society should consider ways to make this type of development feasible again. It just feels like the pendulum has swung too far one way.

 

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On 1/26/2021 at 12:54 PM, TIm said:

this is a school district that throws money away on a yearly basis

 

You're going off of anecdotal evidence without context (or sharing it). In my experience Granville schools do not throw away a lot of money. It just seems too easy to make that assumption because the community has a high median income. Additionally, the old football stadium was fairly small and basic. I personally don't support the amount of money spent on sports/sport facilities in this country (or this project in particular) but I don't think it's fair to paint Granville's priorities in a bad light when the project simply brought the football stadium up to the standards of stadiums in surrounding communities. Again, idealistic in today's world but it's a shame that we no longer build schools and facilities that inspire/encourage shared identity like Withrow and Walnut Hills in Cincinnati (or that are connected to the local community, like Granville elementary). 

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On 1/26/2021 at 12:54 PM, TIm said:

If Granville just sits on their thumbs and pretends growth isn't happening

 

I have seen this multiple times now and I am honestly curious what people would like to see Granville doing to prepare for growth? Not simply a statement that they should join some organization but what actual changes would help? The Village is built out so I don't see a lot of room for development inside it. There are acreage requirements for the townships and the available areas have been built out with subdivisions the last 20+ years. There isn't that much non-restricted farmland available to develop (especially towards Pataskala's direction). Are people on here simply frustrated that Granville has preserved green space and the townships have acreage requirements? It doesn't seem to be a big issue at this time as there are huge amounts of land that need to be developed down route 16 and 161 before reaching Granville. I'm not convinced that Columbus will still be growing as steadily by that time. If it is, it would seem beneficial to discuss making other parts of Ohio (long struggling) more attractive for growth. 

On 1/27/2021 at 4:00 PM, LythamLight said:

I have seen this multiple times now and I am honestly curious what people would like to see Granville doing to prepare for growth? Not simply a statement that they should join some organization but what actual changes would help? The Village is built out so I don't see a lot of room for development inside it. There are acreage requirements for the townships and the available areas have been built out with subdivisions the last 20+ years. There isn't that much non-restricted farmland available to develop (especially towards Pataskala's direction). Are people on here simply frustrated that Granville has preserved green space and the townships have acreage requirements? It doesn't seem to be a big issue at this time as there are huge amounts of land that need to be developed down route 16 and 161 before reaching Granville. I'm not convinced that Columbus will still be growing as steadily by that time. If it is, it would seem beneficial to discuss making other parts of Ohio (long struggling) more attractive for growth. 

As noted previously, I think it would be smart to explore the benefits of incorporating the full extent of GEVSD as part of Granville village (no doubt city at that point). At least that way Granville itself has a lot more control over its destiny, regardless of what direction they ultimately chose to take for the area.

Granville Township as it is can certainly control devlopment within its borders with tools like open space deed restrictions and minimum lot sizes. The biggest worry there would be a neighboring municipality incorporating portions of Granville Township, but as you correctly note that threat is not imminent. 

The area I'm probably most concerned about is the Union Township portion of the school district. There does appear to be municipal water/sewer service to several newer subdivisions along Outville Road. While that is Harrison Township, it's only 1 mile from the Union Township line. There also seems to be plenty of open farmland in the Granville Schools portion of Union Township. 

I'm definitely speculating a bit here because I don't know if Union Township has things like lot size requirements and if they would be willing to waive them for some big development proposal, my guess is probably if it works out better for them. The other thing I don't fully understand is if SW Licking Water and Sewer can offer service in Union Township, or if there are other limitations. That said, looking at the whole fire district debacle last year, Union Township government does not seem to give much thought to the concerns of residents in the northern portion of their township, since they are a minority of voters. I don't think any objections or concerns they would raise could stop any proposal from going forward.

Exciting news!!!  This piece of property has been closed down and abandoned my whole life.  Its such a big piece of prime real-estate.  I have dreamed for this day that somebody would do something with this piece of land.  Good things happening here in Newark! Cant wait to find out what the plans are for this land.

 

https://www.newarkadvocate.com/story/news/2021/02/10/development-planned-former-westinghouse-site-west-main-street/4449253001/

^ Mixed feelings here. It’s unfortunate that the main industrial building isn’t financially feasible to rehab. It has a lot of charm and and could have provided the community with some unique space. Hopefully the new development has some character, quality and density. It is certainly better than leaving the site to deteriorate further. 

56 minutes ago, LythamLight said:

^ Mixed feelings here. It’s unfortunate that the main industrial building isn’t financially feasible to rehab. It has a lot of charm and and could have provided the community with some unique space.

 

When my wife and I lived in Rhode Island, we lived in a circa-1881 5-story brick and timber former cotton mill (factory building) that had been converted into 124 apartments. It was a very cool place to live, those conversions were all the rage with young professional-types in that region, with plenty of similar character-filled but virtually empty mill buildings to work with.

 

Every time we drive past the complex on W Main, we talk about how cool it would be to turn it into a similar loft development. The surrounding area is even reminiscent of where we lived in RI (ie...a bit on the rough side). Unfortunately those conversions are apparently extremely expensive, and it probably takes New England-level rents and lack of cheaper options to make it viable.

So agree it's a shame to see it coming down, I just hope the new development is something decent and actually gets built. I really hate seeing interesting old building getting torn down just because it's not financially viable at the moment to rehab (with no regard that could change), but the empty land sits on the market for a few decades.

In this particular case though, the building is just way too deteriorated to be saved.  There literally hasn't been anything in it since the early 80's.  The cost to renovate it and bring it up to code would be more than what the building is worth and would also probably take a long time.  This developer wants to make this a "Gateway into Downtown Newark", so from everything i have heard and seen on this, it will be very nice.  Like i have been saying, its a good time to be in Newark.  Lots of investment taking place.  I for one cant wait to see what this brings.

5 hours ago, OhioFinest said:

Exciting news!!!  This piece of property has been closed down and abandoned my whole life.  Its such a big piece of prime real-estate.  I have dreamed for this day that somebody would do something with this piece of land.  Good things happening here in Newark! Cant wait to find out what the plans are for this land.

 

https://www.newarkadvocate.com/story/news/2021/02/10/development-planned-former-westinghouse-site-west-main-street/4449253001/

Such a great space that has just been left to rot. Actually building something useful here would be huge. Those two crappy bars probably aren't going to like losing their only parking though. That corner of Main and 11th is not somewhere you want to be around closing time of those bars.

Article says 1 of 2 buildings will be saved, so to me that's a W.  The one fronting Main is nearly 100 years old and abandoned for 30+ years, doesn't bode well.

River Road development rezoning application withdrawn from Planning Commission after Service Director said he wouldn't approve, citing extensive opposition:

 

https://www.newarkadvocate.com/story/news/2021/03/10/opponents-halt-river-road-housing-circle-k-gas-station-developments/4633349001/

 

So the plan for apartments in this development is apparently dead. Current zoning allows for low-density single family housing. According to discussion on the Granville Parents Facebook group, they are already out surveying with hopes for as many as 500 houses.

 

My instinct is a Park Trails-esque large single family development is probably what the developers wanted to build from the start, with the hope opposition to that sort of plan would be decreased by initially proposing then withdrawing plans for a large multi-family component. In realty, at least going by the tone of the Facebook discussion on the topic, the main concern has always been that ANY development on the proposed scale would necessitate a new school that the rest of the district would get to help pay for. Most of the positive reactions I've seen are from people who are hopeful the entire project is dead, which I think is pretty unlikely.

 

1 hour ago, mrCharlie said:

River Road development rezoning application withdrawn from Planning Commission after Service Director said he wouldn't approve, citing extensive opposition:

 

https://www.newarkadvocate.com/story/news/2021/03/10/opponents-halt-river-road-housing-circle-k-gas-station-developments/4633349001/

 

So the plan for apartments in this development is apparently dead. Current zoning allows for low-density single family housing. According to discussion on the Granville Parents Facebook group, they are already out surveying with hopes for as many as 500 houses.

 

My instinct is a Park Trails-esque large single family development is probably what the developers wanted to build from the start, with the hope opposition to that sort of plan would be decreased by initially proposing then withdrawing plans for a large multi-family component. In realty, at least going by the tone of the Facebook discussion on the topic, the main concern has always been that ANY development on the proposed scale would necessitate a new school that the rest of the district would get to help pay for. Most of the positive reactions I've seen are from people who are hopeful the entire project is dead, which I think is pretty unlikely.

 

 

When you say that current zoning allows for low-density single-family housing, does that mean that the developer could simply choose to build 500 units there?  Wouldn't that still have to go through the Planning Commission in order to get approval for things like utility expansion to that area?

 

Still disappointing to see the decision tree reduced to "empty land to preserve the real estate values of NIMBY Granville insiders" or "low-density single-use sprawlburb."

5 hours ago, Gramarye said:

 

When you say that current zoning allows for low-density single-family housing, does that mean that the developer could simply choose to build 500 units there?  Wouldn't that still have to go through the Planning Commission in order to get approval for things like utility expansion to that area?

 

Still disappointing to see the decision tree reduced to "empty land to preserve the real estate values of NIMBY Granville insiders" or "low-density single-use sprawlburb."

 

Per a local realtor, posted in the Granville Parents in the Know Facebook Group, "Subdivision still goes before the Planning Commission for approval (and public comment), but I believe can only be denied if it does not meet the zoning and subdivision regulations." So it sounds like as long as the predefined conditions are met, it can move forward.

While there has been some "losing the small town charm" NIMBYism, the majority of the pushback I've seen (at least stated publicly) really does center on the need for everyone to pay for the new school this development would necessitate. I think a Park Trails style special assessment for the new houses would go a long way to buying goodwill. 

I am absolutely floored by this decision on the River Road development. My councilman will hear from me about this about who is making these decisions. Why are NEWARK officials taking their directions from Granville residents?  Listen, Granville will be OK...one way or the other...they'll be OK.  OMG we "might" have to build a new school...relax...everything will be OK Granville.  The fact that these Newark Govt officials are doing whats best for Granville and not what's best for Newark is absolutely ridiculous.  All because of "apartments"....Well now we cant have that in "Granville Exempted School District" now can we? 

Also, i was sent this last night.  This is about the facility and property being redeveloped on West Main that was previously discussed.  However, i am confused at what they are doing.  The previous articles stated they were going to tear down the buildings and the developer was going to build an Entertainment Gateway into Downtown Newark.  This news is something different? Not quite sure what to make of it?

 

https://www.newark-station.com/

 

Its says at the bottom of the page...this "Newark-Station" Launch event will be to unveil the future development renderings of the site.  I have to be honest..."The Yard" doesnt sound very promising as part of this project.  I have lived in Newark most of my life, but i don't hear anybody saying we need sand volleyball courts with a taco bar?  Especially on a site like this.  I fear this part of the development wont succeed.  But who knows?  This whole thing is interesting to say the least.

Edited March 11, 20214 yr by OhioFinest

52 minutes ago, OhioFinest said:

I am absolutely floored by this decision on the River Road development. My councilman will hear from me about this about who is making these decisions. Why are NEWARK officials taking their directions from Granville residents?  Listen, Granville will be OK...one way or the other...they'll be OK.  OMG we "might" have to build a new school...relax...everything will be OK Granville.  The fact that these Newark Govt officials are doing whats best for Granville and not what's best for Newark is absolutely ridiculous.  All because of "apartments"....Well now we cant have that in "Granville Exempted School District" now can we? 

Basically every other school district in Licking County is building new schools and preparing for growth. Why can't Granville do that as well? They can, they just don't want to, especially if it's "Newark people" who will be the ones filling up the schools. I've said it in this thread before and I'll say it again, Granville is the textbook definition of a NIMBY town. They'll happily cause problems for others but refuse to have any minor inconveniences for themselves.

Edited March 11, 20214 yr by TIm

1 hour ago, OhioFinest said:

I am absolutely floored by this decision on the River Road development. My councilman will hear from me about this about who is making these decisions. Why are NEWARK officials taking their directions from Granville residents?  

The vast majority of the organized opposition was from the Park Trails/Park Ridge residents, who Newark officials most certainly are obligated to answer to. Though I also enjoy the irony of that group fighting a large Newark City/Granville Schools development. 

A big part why people are digging in on this is GEVSD really got nailed in the last few recalculations of the state school funding formula. The district has had to ask for even more local money (both property and income tax) over the last few years, and our school taxes were already REALLY high due to the lack of commercial development (a whole different topic...). There are definitely some people who had to stretch financially to live in the school district even before taxes went up. (Of course there are also the usual anti-tax people, I don't have a lot of sympathy for their cause.)

 

I personally would have been happier if the apartment component was included versus just single family sprawlburb, and I'm definitely not alone in having this opinion. There is a huge shortage and high demand for decent rentals in GEVSD, so prices are crazy high for what little is out there. Unless some of those apartments were specifically affordable (something else desperate needed around here, this area needs economic diversity) any new market rate apartments would have brought in almost as much money for schools as single family. It's also not like the apartments are the difference between needed and new school and not.
 

58 minutes ago, TIm said:

Basically every other school district in Licking County is building new schools and preparing for growth. Why can't Granville do that as well? They can, they just don't want to, especially if it's "Newark people" who will be the ones filling up the schools. I've said it in this thread before and I'll say it again, Granville is the textbook definition of a NIMBY town. They'll happily cause problems for others but refuse to have any minor inconveniences for themselves.

 

I agree with you that Granville needs to be preparing for growth, though see my comment above about the funding situation in the district. Granville really does need to allow smart growth versus stopping any growth, commercial growth in particular is desperately needed to offset the school taxes. Thats said, I'm glad there isn't the all-too-common "all development is good" mentality, since developers tend to look at what's best for them in the short term rather than what's best for the whole community longterm.

Prefacing the next question by noting I've lived in Granville for about 10 years, but I'm not a native of the area so I don't have any sense of things like school or historic rivalries, and would like to think I'm looking at everything without any baggage or bias. I also am not sure if we are staying in Granville long term for a variety of reasons I've mentioned elsewhere....

So asking honestly, where does this "Granville looks down on Newark" stuff come from? I see that sort of thing posted now and then in places like the comments section of Newark Advocate articles. But I've NEVER seen or heard anything of the sort from a "Granville person" in the time I've lived here when talking with natives or transplants, and I haven't seen as much as a single post that implies people (adults anyway) hold such attitudes in some very active Granville Facebook groups. Park Trails/Park Ridge people are generally regarded as part of the Granville community since all the kids know each other, and they are most certainly "Newark people".

I myself am pretty jealous of the real downtown that Newark has and everything that has been happening down there - it's great! I'm also jealous of the variety and quality of housing stock in Newark, my wife and I came very close on a number of houses in Newark back in 2012 when we eventually bought our house. Older house or newer house, there are so many options in Newark that are both bigger and better-built than anything we have in the village.

 

The only Licking County city I personally have a negative opinion of is Heath, mainly because (to me anyway) its embodies almost everything bad about suburban sprawl-style development post WWII. If Heath didn't exist, downtown Newark would have probably never needed revitalization since it never would have declined. Heath seems to have embraced the all growth is good mentality from the start, thus resulting in an abundance of empty or outdated retail space, usually just letting the next developer build new rather than revitalize what is already there.

2 hours ago, OhioFinest said:

Also, i was sent this last night.  This is about the facility and property being redeveloped on West Main that was previously discussed.  However, i am confused at what they are doing.  The previous articles stated they were going to tear down the buildings and the developer was going to build an Entertainment Gateway into Downtown Newark.  This news is something different? Not quite sure what to make of it?

 

https://www.newark-station.com/

 

Its says at the bottom of the page...this "Newark-Station" Launch event will be to unveil the future development renderings of the site.  I have to be honest..."The Yard" doesnt sound very promising as part of this project.  I have lived in Newark most of my life, but i don't hear anybody saying we need sand volleyball courts with a taco bar?  Especially on a site like this.  I fear this part of the development wont succeed.  But who knows?  This whole thing is interesting to say the least.

 

Very interested to see where this is headed. When they say mixed use I assume there will be a residential component, but I don't see it really mentioned specifically on the website. Those old industrial buildings would make some pretty neat apartments. 

I'm hoping the sand volleyball thing is primarily meant as a marketing gimmick "resident amenity" rather than a true focus of the development. When we lived in New England a few years back, industrial complexes like this converted to apartments were fairly popular and many had gimmicks along these lines. Our 125-unit former cotton mill had a basketball court, gym, and theater room that almost nobody used - but all are mentioned prominently in their marketing.

 

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So asking honestly, where does this "Granville looks down on Newark" stuff come from? I see that sort of thing posted now and then in places like the comments section of Newark Advocate articles. But I've NEVER seen or heard anything of the sort from a "Granville person" in the time I've lived here when talking with natives or transplants, and I haven't seen as much as a single post that implies people (adults anyway) hold such attitudes in some very active Granville Facebook groups. Park Trails/Park Ridge people are generally regarded as part of the Granville community since all the kids know each other, and they are most certainly "Newark people".

 

It goes back decades of Granville residents thinking poorly of Newark/Heath/Hanover/Pataskala.  I can direct you to the same Granville Facebook page, i would assume..not totally sure, but a few years back when the city of Newark was investing in in the bridge in downtown Newark that says "Downtown Newark" over the highway, there was a topic started on that same Granville Facebook page and the topic was absolutely ridiculous.  I cant remember the actual words, but it said something to the effect of "Our less affluent brethren to the East can do it, why cant we?".  It caused an uproar.  The irony is that nobody from Granville had any clue why so many people were up in arms about it.  "Less affluent"....what does that mean?  I know what it means, but whats the real "point" of saying it like that?  Also, fast forward 3-4 years and guess what is happening in Granville...a new bridge is being built over 161 that will say "Granville" on it.  It's that sort of elitism that is sickening.  I can also point you to the high school football situation in Granville a few years ago, where hundreds of Granville students welcomed the Licking Valley Panther football team to Granville with chants of "white trash, white trash, white trash".  As somebody who isn't local, as you say, you should be willing to open your mind to the fact that Granville has been this way for a long time.

 

Back to the article though...The article mentioned Granville residents and Granville School Board members attending, again I ask, why do they have ANY say to begin with? This is a city of Newark issue...not Granville.  If they truly don't want it, then maybe that land should be given back to NCS?  Imagine...just for a second if this situation where the other way around...Granville council would laugh in our faces.  Lastly, this type of anti-growth strategy...and that's what it is...anti growth...is not just about Granville, its about the entire Greater Newark Metro.  We cant have Newark/Heath/Pataskala being on board with planning for growth and then have Granville doing the exact opposite.  It hurts the entire region. This is exactly why i will steadfastly argue that its Granville that's hurting its neighbors...not the other way around. 

Edited March 11, 20214 yr by OhioFinest

19 minutes ago, OhioFinest said:

 

It goes back decades of Granville residents thinking poorly of Newark.  I can direct you to the same Granville Facebook page i would assume, but a few years back when the city of Newark was investing in in the bridge in downtown Newark that says "Downtown Newark" over the highway, there was a topic started on that same Granville Facebook page and the topic was absolutely ridiculous.  I cant remember the actual words, but it said something to the effect of "Our less affluent brethren to the East can do it, why cant we?".  It caused an uproar.  The irony is that nobody from Granville had any clue why so many people were up in arms about it.  "Less affluent"....what does that mean?  I know what it means, but whats the real "point" of saying it like that.  Also, fast forward 3-4 years and guess what is happening in Granville...a new bridge is being built over 161 that will say "Granville" on it.  It's that sort of elitism that is sickening.  The article mentioned Granville residents and Granville School Board members attending, again why do they have ANY say to begin with? This is a city of Newark issue...not Granville.  If they truly don't want it, then maybe that land should be given back to NCS?  Lastly, this type of anti-growth strategy...and that's what it is...anti growth...is not just about Granville...its about the entire Greater Newark Metro.  We cant have Newark/Heath/Pataskala being on board with planning for growth and then have Granville doing the exact opposite.  It hurts the entire region. This is exactly why i will steadfastly argue that its Granville tha'ts hurting its neighbors...not the other way around. 

 

Yikes. I guess I've just managed to never come across anything that blatant and stupid, which is precisely why I asked. Now that you mention it, I could see that sort of attitude being more prevalent in some of the longtime/lifetime residents. There is definitely a transplant/native divide that comes up now and then, with the natives looking down on the transplants. About the only elitism I've personally dealt with in the area was a particularly realtor looking down on certain streets in Granville as undesirable because (until the late 1970s) they were near the railroad tracks and industry. I could very well see there being a group of people very much stuck in the past.

I do however disagree that the GEVSD board and residents shouldn't have a say in the River Road development, since they do have a stake in this development based on the impact it will have on the district.  It would seem that a school board meeting would be the more jurisdictionally appropriate, but with how things work in Ohio the district really doesn't have a whole lot of say in the process. I'm sure GEVSD would be thrilled to hand that land over the NCS, but the primary reason this is even being considered is because its in Granville Schools.

 

I do agree this is a great example of where some regional planning and cooperation would be of great benefit. No reason there couldn't be a solution where everybody wins.

https://www.newarkadvocate.com/story/news/2021/03/12/four-north-21st-street-homes-demolished-gas-station-store/6939627002/

 

Well, this will be an interesting development.  Sheetz will be building one of its new Central Ohio Locations in Newark.  It will demolish 4 homes on the west side of N. 21 st at the corner of N 21st and Moull St.  I'm surprised this development was kept secret so well.  Don't know how i feel about it?  Progress is inevitable, i just hope it turns out nice.  The plus side is that Northpoint Architecture, which renovated one of the 4 homes to be demolished, will move its business to Downtown Newark.  The stated they want to be a part of whats going on in there, so i am excited to see what they will do with the location they are moving to. 

 

The 4 yellow dots are the properties to be demolished.  The red line box indicates the total property Sheetz will build on. The second picture is the view of the 4 houses to be demolished from 21st St.  The third picture is the view of the 4 houses to be demolished from the back of those properties and the empty lot from Moull St.

 

 

 

Edited March 12, 20214 yr by OhioFinest

This is a projects & construction section thread - which means discussion should be focused on any on-going or proposed construction projects in the Newark area.

 

The previous census/MSA related discussion has been moved to https://forum.urbanohio.com/topic/2974-ohio-census-population-trends/ in the City Discussion section.

 

https://www.newarkadvocate.com/story/news/2021/02/26/buckeye-shooting-center-open-newarks-far-east-end-september/6806859002/

 

I have been meaning to post this article.  Newark is set to have a state of the art shooting center open on the far east end.  A new 3 million dollar facility with 12 lanes distancing 75 feet,  360 degree interactive targets, a state of the art pro shop of nearly 6,000 ft...AND a training/vocational academy for new gun owners. It will employ 28 people.  I cant stress how important the educational part of this will be as sky rocketing first time gun owners are women.  This place will be packed as there is nothing like this in a 3-4 county region to the North, South and East of Newark. 

 

 

The facility will be located just west of the Longaberger basket where the red icon is.

 

 

Edited March 16, 20214 yr by OhioFinest

1 minute ago, OhioFinest said:

https://www.newarkadvocate.com/story/news/2021/02/26/buckeye-shooting-center-open-newarks-far-east-end-september/6806859002/

 

I have been meaning to post this article.  Newark is set to have a state of the art shooting center open on the far east end.  A new 3 million dollar facility with 12 lanes distancing 75 feet,  360 degree interactive targets, a state of the art pro shop of nearly 6,000 ft...AND a training/vocational academy for new gun owners. It will employ 28 people.  I cant stress how important the educational part of this will be as sky rocketing first time gun owners are women.  This place will be packed as there is nothing like this in a 3-4 county region to the North, South and East of Newark. 

 

I'm surprised to hear that last part, given the prevalence of gun owners in those outlying counties.

Just now, Gramarye said:

 

I'm surprised to hear that last part, given the prevalence of gun owners in those outlying counties.

 

I suspect that's why the group of investors are building on this location.  It's a geographical center point so to speak. 

39 minutes ago, Gramarye said:

 

I'm surprised to hear that last part, given the prevalence of gun owners in those outlying counties.

Don't really need an indoor range when you can just walk out your back door and safely shoot targets. Lived about 10 or so minutes directly SE of the basket and tons fo properties out that way have built their own home ranges. Was so common to hear gunshots and tannerite explosions in those areas.

https://www.newarkadvocate.com/

 

 

This is GREAT news!! Another new subdivision is being built in Newark, this time on the North end in a beautiful area around the Licking Springs Trout Club Golf Course.  This area has some beautiful topography.  The price range for these homes will be very affordable and a welcome addition to the market.  Good things continue to happen in Newark.

 

The new subdivision will be built in the area in yellow.  The two areas in red are currently in development and exploding with new homes being built as well.  Again, thats a beautiful area of Newark.

 

https://www.newarkadvocate.com/story/news/local/granville/2021/04/14/granville-council-affirms-newark-thornwood-bridge-roundabout-plan/7123965002/

 

This is great news...finally its happening!  By building this bridge and interchange, the eventual built out plan calls for Thornwood to be widened from 16 to 79 opening up thousands of acres of land for development.  One little nugget to this article...i'm so glad that Granville gave Newark the go ahead, even though we are funding 100% of the project...how generous of them.  Talk about patting themselves on the back.  They even reference the recent decision by the city of Newark and the River Road development project that was paused, due to Granville, stating "added-on goodwill with them".  Almost sounds like a quid pro quo was established.  Either cancel the River Road project or we wont sing off on the Thornwood Crossing project, that's what that sounds like to me?  Anyway, glad to see this happening.  This is going to benefit the entire Greater Newark Area. 

 

Edited April 14, 20214 yr by OhioFinest

This looks like a great project and I'm glad its moving forward. Hopefully some improvements will also be made to Thornwood as it goes over the hill between River and James, and especially some improvements at the intersection with James. I've come across a few old (before my time here) references to proposals to build either a divided highway or four lane road in place of Thornwood, this seems like a lot better solution for the current need (though I also assume those proposals were pre-161 with the intent of improving access to I-70).

 

REALLY glad Showman's Arch isn't going anywhere, really hoping something interesting can be done with it.

 

3 hours ago, OhioFinest said:

One little nugget to this article...i'm so glad that Granville gave Newark the go ahead, even though we are funding 100% of the project...how generous of them.  Talk about patting themselves on the back. 

 

In this case part of the project is in Granville, and per the article Granville will be paying for related improvements (“They came to us having passed legislation to say, ‘We’re willing to do this to improve our side of the road, but we need your approval,'” Mattes said. “What we’re doing is ceding a portion of the roadway to them for upkeep and for permanent improvement.”). This sort of cooperation really should be default for any projects were multiple entities have a financial stake or are otherwise majorly impacted, that was equally true of the previous River Road proposal.

It is good to see growth happening all over Central Ohio. The whole region is benefitting from growth.

2 hours ago, mrCharlie said:

This looks like a great project and I'm glad its moving forward. Hopefully some improvements will also be made to Thornwood as it goes over the hill between River and James, and especially some improvements at the intersection with James. I've come across a few old (before my time here) references to proposals to build either a divided highway or four lane road in place of Thornwood, this seems like a lot better solution for the current need (though I also assume those proposals were pre-161 with the intent of improving access to I-70).

 

REALLY glad Showman's Arch isn't going anywhere, really hoping something interesting can be done with it.

 

 

In this case part of the project is in Granville, and per the article Granville will be paying for related improvements (“They came to us having passed legislation to say, ‘We’re willing to do this to improve our side of the road, but we need your approval,'” Mattes said. “What we’re doing is ceding a portion of the roadway to them for upkeep and for permanent improvement.”). This sort of cooperation really should be default for any projects were multiple entities have a financial stake or are otherwise majorly impacted, that was equally true of the previous River Road proposal.

 

So why is Newark footing 100% of the bill then?  Is it because Granville would have shot this down too if they were asked to foot their part of the bill?  Hmmmmm...Seems like Granville somehow yields a ton of power.  Also, yes i believe the plan is to level out the hill on Thornwood Drive.  The entire corridor has a widening plan, which would open up thousands of acres of prime real estate for development. 

The blue line is the proposed bridge and extension, as you can see the red line showing Newark City Limits, this goes over a creek, which is somehow Granville?  It just seems a little strange to me that building the massive new Thornwood Crossing, just to the North would be completed without a previous agreement to build this 2nd phase? 

 

 

 

Edited April 14, 20214 yr by OhioFinest

14 minutes ago, OhioFinest said:

The blue line is the proposed bridge and extension, as you can see the red line showing Newark City Limits, this goes over a creek, which is somehow Granville?  It just seems a little strange to me that building the massive new Thornwood Crossing, just to the North would be completed without a previous agreement to build this 2nd phase? 

 

 

 

It's that little sliver of land where they closed off access to 16 where the Bob Evans is I'm pretty sure. It's a part of Granville literally nobody knows is even in Granville. I had done work with people who have businesses right in that tiny stretch and they had no idea they were in Granville until Granville came knocking on the door to complain about the style of sign they chose or something like that.

Just now, TIm said:

It's that little sliver of land where they closed off access to 16 where the Bob Evans is I'm pretty sure. It's a part of Granville literally nobody knows is even in Granville. I had done work with people who have businesses right in that tiny stretch and they had no idea they were in Granville until Granville came knocking on the door to complain about the style of sign they chose or something like that.

Lol...thats funny. But yes, i had no idea it was Granville either. 

16 minutes ago, OhioFinest said:

 

So why is Newark footing 100% of the bill then?  Is it because Granville would have shot this down too if they were asked to foot their part of the bill? 

 

I might have been incorrect about Granville paying for any of it since the article is rather confusingly worded. Either way, the county auditor maps seem to indicate that some of the land where the new road and possible the bridge itself (between Cherry Valley Rd and some of the creek) is Village of Granville. Legally, I doubt Newark could do this without getting Granville's okay no matter the circumstances. I do agree its a little odd there wasn't an agreement in place already as part of the Thornwood Crossing interchange.

 

As for who should pay, there really isn't much in the way of direct benefit to Granville with this project so I don't think there would have been a whole lot of success persuading the village to kick in much. The project mainly benefits Newark (and Heath!) by improving highway access.

I wonder if there's any chance of them keeping the current bridge over Raccoon Creek? I know there's already a pedestrian bridge downstream, but it seems silly to remove the vehicular bridge entirely if some span of it could be used for pedestrian traffic -- there's that leg that connects the Newark-Granville path through Granville across 16 now, and that little park pavilion that connects to, but I'm not sure what the overall connection actually is between the two?

12 hours ago, jebleprls22 said:

I wonder if there's any chance of them keeping the current bridge over Raccoon Creek? I know there's already a pedestrian bridge downstream, but it seems silly to remove the vehicular bridge entirely if some span of it could be used for pedestrian traffic -- there's that leg that connects the Newark-Granville path through Granville across 16 now, and that little park pavilion that connects to, but I'm not sure what the overall connection actually is between the two?

 

The article does say (and I think I've heard elsewhere too) the old bridge is staying. It's a good thing too, it's quite a bridge with an interesting history - Showman Arch was built in 1833 to carry the Granville Feeder Canal, then later the interurban.

 

What they will do with it though is a different issue... there is already a rather nice iron bridge just downstream for the bike trail to cross the creek, basically accomplishing the same thing. Might be interesting to see it restored in some way with the ugly concrete cladding removed (it's apparently stone underneath) and a more appropriate guardrail.

https://www.newarkadvocate.com/story/news/2021/04/29/roundabout-coming-summer-sharon-valley-road-country-club-drive/4855565001/

 

I simply cannot state how happy i am about this.  This has been needed at the Sharon Valley Rd/Country Club Dr intersection for years!!  Glad they are moving forward with this. 

Edited April 29, 20214 yr by OhioFinest

52 minutes ago, OhioFinest said:

https://www.newarkadvocate.com/story/news/2021/04/29/roundabout-coming-summer-sharon-valley-road-country-club-drive/4855565001/

 

I simply cannot state how happy i am about this.  This has been needed at the Sharon Valley Rd/Country Club Dr intersection for years!!  Glad they are moving forward with this. 

Yeah this is a great addition, and making it so you can't turn left out of King will be huge. When I use to work in the area and take these roads every single day, it sucked when someone created a huge line of cars trying to turn left onto Sharon Valley from King when traffic was busy in the area. People would sometimes dip down into that houses yard on the corner and try and sneak around which obviously shouldn't be happening.

3 hours ago, TIm said:

Yeah this is a great addition, and making it so you can't turn left out of King will be huge. When I use to work in the area and take these roads every single day, it sucked when someone created a huge line of cars trying to turn left onto Sharon Valley from King when traffic was busy in the area. People would sometimes dip down into that houses yard on the corner and try and sneak around which obviously shouldn't be happening.

Huge improvement to say the least!!

https://www.newarkadvocate.com/get-access/?return=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newarkadvocate.com%2Fstory%2Fnews%2F2021%2F05%2F13%2Fnewark-housing-subdivision-planned-cherry-valley-road%2F5047843001%2F

 

Two more housing development projects have been announced in Newark.  One will be on the West side, right by all of the other development we have been discussing, and the other development will be on the Licking Springs Trout Club golf course.  The article also mentions the other new development in the North end, which will be right down the road from the Trout Club. It will be called "Conor's Pass".  Don't know if i like that name, but i digress.  So as of now, we have the 3 new subdivisions announced in the last few weeks.  Would have been 4, if not for Granville residents throwing a hissy fit about Newark developing the land off of River road.  Newark just keeps steadily growing and making progress.  Good times!

 

The area in Yellow is the newest housing development proposal.  The area in Orange is the housing development that is currently on hold.  LOTS of development going on in this area.  Its booming to be quite honest.

 

 

 

 

So, here is an up to date map of all of the recently proposed development in the Greater Newark Area.  As you can see, the entire West end of Newark and Heath are about to change drastically over the next few years.  Exciting times.

 

Orange - Proposed housing development off of River Rd

Yellow - Newest proposed housing development off of Cherry Valley Rd

Green -  Phase II Thornwood Crossing Bridge being built

Dotted Green - Phase III Thornwood Dr widening

Blue - Proposed new PCA facility

Red - New 750,00 sq ft Owens Corning Distribution facility 

Pink - Proposed extension of Central Parkway all the way to Keller Dr with a massive mixed used development. 

 

Absolutely incredible when you step and look at how much this is all connected.  Really exciting times in the Greater Newark Area!

 

 

This is the beautiful piece of rolling hills this newest housing development will be built on. 

Edited May 13, 20214 yr by OhioFinest

Hopefully all the development on the periphery of Newark slowly trickles down into the older neighborhoods. I haven't spent too much time in Newark, but from what I've seen, a lot of the older neighborhoods need a lot of work. That being said, I loved Downtown Newark and can't believe how nicely they fixed up the area! Either way, it's cool to see Newark progressing and finally seeing development. Hopefully it will be more like a proper satellite city than just another suburb though.

14 hours ago, OhioFinest said:

Really exciting times in the Greater Newark Area!

I love your commitment to using the Greater Newark Area moniker. And I mean that in the best way possible. 

7 hours ago, Dblcut3 said:

Hopefully all the development on the periphery of Newark slowly trickles down into the older neighborhoods. I haven't spent too much time in Newark, but from what I've seen, a lot of the older neighborhoods need a lot of work. That being said, I loved Downtown Newark and can't believe how nicely they fixed up the area! Either way, it's cool to see Newark progressing and finally seeing development. Hopefully it will be more like a proper satellite city than just another suburb though.

 

The older parts of Nerk are VERY Eastern Ohio, if that makes sense(not a knock bc those are my roots).  You have 'Urban Youngstown' in your signature so I assume you do.

1 hour ago, wpcc88 said:

 

The older parts of Nerk are VERY Eastern Ohio, if that makes sense(not a knock bc those are my roots).  You have 'Urban Youngstown' in your signature so I assume you do.

Of course that's a knock...what else is it supposed to mean?  Most people from Newark that have a brain and work hard for a living...we know exactly what that is supposed to infer.  I would challenge you to actually go to Newark and explore.  Newark has changed dramatically over the last decade.  I know i may seem a little touchy about it, but i feel like its a fight worth having lol. 

 

8 hours ago, Dblcut3 said:

Hopefully all the development on the periphery of Newark slowly trickles down into the older neighborhoods. I haven't spent too much time in Newark, but from what I've seen, a lot of the older neighborhoods need a lot of work. That being said, I loved Downtown Newark and can't believe how nicely they fixed up the area! Either way, it's cool to see Newark progressing and finally seeing development. Hopefully it will be more like a proper satellite city than just another suburb though.

"Progressing and Finally seeing development"???  Dirty little secret, Newark has been steadily growing for decades.  Also, Newark has always been its own Micropolitan Area.  Nobody from the Greater Newark Area thinks we are a "suburb" of Columbus. An exurb, yes, but suburb, no...at least not yet.  Newark has its own "suburbs" if you will.  I know that will drive the Columbus MSA folks absolutely batsh*t crazy, but its the truth.  They only want "us" when it comes to MSA discussions.  Anyway, this is why i am on this site, to give Newark its proper representation, because there is still clearly a lot of work and perception to be changed.  Hopefully i am doing a good job at it, because i really truly honestly do want to shed this "VERY Eastern Ohio" image. 

 

BTW...just an FYI, I sincerely mean this, nobody i know or have ever met, that was raised in Newark, calls Newark...Nerk...None.  Maybe Nork here and there, but i have literally never met anybody that flatly calls it Nerk. I have always found this fascinating...even as a kid i would ask my dad why this was a thing?  Come back again soon, more changes are happening!  

Edited May 14, 20214 yr by OhioFinest

1 hour ago, OhioFinest said:

I know i may seem a little touchy about it, but i feel like its a fight worth having lol. 

 

Yes, you do seem a little touchy about it, which is a shame, because the information you bring here is very good and would be even better without the Newark-nationalist baggage.

 

 

1 hour ago, OhioFinest said:

"Progressing and Finally seeing development"???  Dirty little secret, Newark has been steadily growing for decades.  Also, Newark has always been its own Micropolitan Area.  Nobody from the Greater Newark Area thinks we are a "suburb" of Columbus. An exurb, yes, but suburb, no...at least not yet.  Newark has its own "suburbs" if you will.  I know that will drive the Columbus MSA folks absolutely batsh*t crazy, but its the truth.  They only want "us" when it comes to MSA discussions.  Anyway, this is why i am on this site, to give Newark its proper representation, because there is still clearly a lot of work and perception to be changed.  Hopefully i am doing a good job at it, because i really truly honestly do want to shed this "VERY Eastern Ohio" image. 

 

BTW...just an FYI, I sincerely mean this, nobody i know or have ever met, that was raised in Newark, calls Newark...Nerk...None.  Maybe Nork here and there, but i have literally never met anybody that flatly calls it Nerk. I have always found this fascinating...even as a kid i would ask my dad why this was a thing?  Come back again soon, more changes are happening!  

 

"Nobody?"  Because I was in the home of a Newark resident (a fellow WMHS alumni who moved farther out rather than into the city, as I did) who referred to it as exactly that just last month.  He and his wife both commute to Franklin County for work every day, as do a great many Newark residents.  That's basically the definition of being part of a unified metro area.

 

"Micropolitan area" is a bit of a niche neologism from my perspective, so I'll leave that one alone.

 

I'm not even saying you're wrong about the other things--about the changes that have happened, are happening, and will happen in Newark.  I've been coming to downtown Newark regularly since March for a court case that I'm involved in, and I've seen the significant changes since I graduated from WMHS in 2000 (and posted them here, in the City Photos threads).  But if anything, Newark's growth will bring it more into Columbus' web, not less, just as happened with Delaware 1-2 decades ago.  It was the beginning of Newark's growth, and the recognition of potential for more of it, that justified the construction/expansion of the OH-161/37/16 link, a major physical link between the two cities that didn't exist when Newark was smaller and not as much was happening there (similar to how Circleville and London are today--the seats of other, quieter, Franklin-adjacent counties).

1 hour ago, OhioFinest said:

Of course that's a knock...what else is it supposed to mean?  Most people from Newark that have a brain and work hard for a living...we know exactly what that is supposed to infer.  I would challenge you to actually go to Newark and explore.  Newark has changed dramatically over the last decade.  I know i may seem a little touchy about it, but i feel like its a fight worth having lol. 

 

"Progressing and Finally seeing development"???  Dirty little secret, Newark has been steadily growing for decades.  Also, Newark has always been its own Micropolitan Area.  Nobody from the Greater Newark Area thinks we are a "suburb" of Columbus. An exurb, yes, but suburb, no...at least not yet.  Newark has its own "suburbs" if you will.  I know that will drive the Columbus MSA folks absolutely batsh*t crazy, but its the truth.  They only want "us" when it comes to MSA discussions.  Anyway, this is why i am on this site, to give Newark its proper representation, because there is still clearly a lot of work and perception to be changed.  Hopefully i am doing a good job at it, because i really truly honestly do want to shed this "VERY Eastern Ohio" image. 

 

BTW...just an FYI, I sincerely mean this, nobody i know or have ever met, that was raised in Newark, calls Newark...Nerk...None.  Maybe Nork here and there, but i have literally never met anybody that flatly calls it Nerk. I have always found this fascinating...even as a kid i would ask my dad why this was a thing?  Come back again soon, more changes are happening!  

Newark is in every definition of the word a suburb of Columbus. It takes less than an hour with no traffic to get downtown. Tons of people from the Newark area, hell even all the way out to Zanesville, commute into Columbus everyday (more so pre-covid obviously). Granville is a huge commuter zone for people like doctors and lawyers who have offices in Columbus as well. Just drive 16/161 west in the morning on a weekday and you'll see what I'm talking about.

 

Those older neighborhoods around downtown Newark though...... still got a lot of work to do in those areas. Petty crime and dilapidated properties everywhere and to go with that you get the absolute joke of a Newark police force which makes those historically rougher neighborhoods even less desirable for people not from the area to move into since if something does go wrong you aren't going to get any help from the police. I've met a lot of people who live in those neighborhoods over the years and while there are a ton of great people in the area, there's also a lot of problems and the stories they tell do not paint the picture of a place I'd be looking to move to.