September 16, 201410 yr Charlotte, the Triad, and the Triangle. That gap between those three, economically, are smaller than, say, Los Angeles and San Diego or Miami and Orlando. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
September 16, 201410 yr ^^^Charlotte has a significant lead over Raleigh-Durham. I assume the third 'metro' you meant would be the Triad, but isn't Greensboro/High Point considered a separate metro from Winston Salem? Edit: Indeed, that is what you meant and indeed it was recently divided into two metros.
September 16, 201410 yr Charlotte is around 2.4 mil; Raleigh around 2 mil; and Triad around 1.7 mil. I'm just saying it's a far less "gap" than, Dallas to San Antonio or Los Angeles to San Diego or Miami to Orlando...or New York City and Rochester. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
September 16, 201410 yr ^Are you talking population or GDP? I think Charlotte is closer to $140 mill in GDP, while Raleigh is about half that. And it looks like Durham and Raleigh are not in the same metro. It might look different if done by CSA. Does anyone have the CSA-GDP numbers since Cleveland and Akron were combined? I believe it would be somewhere north of 170
September 16, 201410 yr ...or Denver and Fort Collins! Twin Cities and Rochester! Milwaukee and Appleton! Anchorage and Juneau! Phoenix and Prescott! Wilmington and Dover! Honolulu and Kahului! Boston and Barnstable! Louisville and Paducah! Las Vegas and Elko! Salt Lake City and St. George! San Juan and Aguadilla! Burlington and Rutland! Oh hell, Wyoming wins! Cheyenne and Gillette! "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
September 16, 201410 yr ...and I'm just guessing for Cleveland-Akron...122,878 + 31,485 = $154,363 ...and the never-happening-but-if-it-does Cincinnati-Dayton...119,090 + 37,534 = $156,624 "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
September 16, 201410 yr Oh, I forgot about Canton. Well, then Cleveland-Akron-Canton-Crocker Park = $170,063 "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
September 16, 201410 yr So Charlotte is around 140,000. Raleigh-Durham is around 110,000. The Triad around 70,000. Still much closer than the other 1st and 3rds around the country. Talking to YOU California, Texas, Florida, and New York...and especially Illinois! My God. Chicago around 590,000; Peoria at 20,500! "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
September 16, 201410 yr U.S. metropolitan areas 15,079,920 Abilene, TX 6,452 Akron, OH 31,485 Albany, GA 5,307 Albany, OR 3,375 Albany-Schenectady-Troy, NY 46,537 Albuquerque, NM 41,970 Alexandria, LA 5,400 Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton, PA-NJ 34,338 Altoona, PA 4,770 Amarillo, TX 11,587 Ames, IA 5,078 Anchorage, AK 31,563 Ann Arbor, MI 20,417 Anniston-Oxford-Jacksonville, AL 3,747 Appleton, WI 11,151 Asheville, NC 15,790 Athens-Clarke County, GA 7,330 Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Roswell, GA 307,233 Atlantic City-Hammonton, NJ 13,618 Auburn-Opelika, AL 4,543 Augusta-Richmond County, GA-SC 20,833 Austin-Round Rock, TX 103,892 Bakersfield, CA 39,702 Baltimore-Columbia-Towson, MD 168,845 Bangor, ME 5,681 Barnstable Town, MA 10,048 Baton Rouge, LA 52,247 Battle Creek, MI 5,529 Bay City, MI 3,229 Beaumont-Port Arthur, TX 24,147 Beckley, WV 4,937 Bellingham, WA 10,119 Bend-Redmond, OR 6,570 Billings, MT 9,274 Binghamton, NY 8,895 Birmingham-Hoover, AL 59,722 Bismarck, ND 6,829 Blacksburg-Christiansburg-Radford, VA 6,202 Bloomington, IL 11,355 Bloomington, IN 6,467 Bloomsburg-Berwick, PA 3,791 Boise City, ID 28,475 Boston-Cambridge-Newton, MA-NH 370,769 Boulder, CO 21,260 Bowling Green, KY 5,862 Bremerton-Silverdale, WA 9,428 Bridgeport-Stamford-Norwalk, CT 93,502 Brownsville-Harlingen, TX 8,631 Brunswick, GA 3,409 Buffalo-Cheektowaga-Niagara Falls, NY 51,630 Burlington, NC 5,173 Burlington-South Burlington, VT 12,711 California-Lexington Park, MD 5,799 Canton-Massillon, OH 15,700 Cape Coral-Fort Myers, FL 21,376 Cape Girardeau, MO-IL 3,735 Carbondale-Marion, IL 4,579 Carson City, NV 2,841 Casper, WY 7,512 Cedar Rapids, IA 17,239 Chambersburg-Waynesboro, PA 4,603 Champaign-Urbana, IL 10,207 Charleston, WV 14,258 Charleston-North Charleston, SC 32,676 Charlotte-Concord-Gastonia, NC-SC 139,022 Charlottesville, VA 11,179 Chattanooga, TN-GA 22,217 Cheyenne, WY 5,567 Chicago-Naperville-Elgin, IL-IN-WI 590,248 Chico, CA 6,861 Cincinnati, OH-KY-IN 119,090 Clarksville, TN-KY 10,628 Cleveland, TN 3,859 Cleveland-Elyria, OH 122,878 Coeur d'Alene, ID 4,493 College Station-Bryan, TX 8,252 Colorado Springs, CO 28,251 Columbia, MO 7,584 Columbia, SC 35,425 Columbus, GA-AL 12,979 Columbus, IN 5,165 Columbus, OH 114,253 Corpus Christi, TX 23,467 Corvallis, OR 5,247 Crestview-Fort Walton Beach-Destin, FL 12,167 Cumberland, MD-WV 2,889 Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX 447,574 Dalton, GA 5,502 Danville, IL 2,729 Daphne-Fairhope-Foley, AL 6,298 Davenport-Moline-Rock Island, IA-IL 19,385 Dayton, OH 37,534 Decatur, AL 5,521 Decatur, IL 5,810 Deltona-Daytona Beach-Ormond Beach, FL 13,956 Denver-Aurora-Lakewood, CO 178,860 Des Moines-West Des Moines, IA 42,654 Detroit-Warren-Dearborn, MI 224,726 Dothan, AL 4,896 Dover, DE 6,493 Dubuque, IA 4,932 Duluth, MN-WI 11,711 Durham-Chapel Hill, NC 42,245 East Stroudsburg, PA 5,434 Eau Claire, WI 7,068 El Centro, CA 5,643 Elizabethtown-Fort Knox, KY 5,816 Elkhart-Goshen, IN 12,067 Elmira, NY 3,188 El Paso, TX 27,458 Erie, PA 10,485 Eugene, OR 13,160 Evansville, IN-KY 16,577 Fairbanks, AK 5,536 Fargo, ND-MN 14,512 Farmington, NM 6,371 Fayetteville, NC 17,347 Fayetteville-Springdale-Rogers, AR-MO 23,826 Flagstaff, AZ 5,214 Flint, MI 12,572 Florence, SC 7,900 Florence-Muscle Shoals, AL 4,647 Fond du Lac, WI 4,272 Fort Collins, CO 13,210 Fort Smith, AR-OK 10,473 Fort Wayne, IN 19,639 Fresno, CA 37,045 Gadsden, AL 2,677 Gainesville, FL 11,098 Gainesville, GA 7,526 Gettysburg, PA 2,814 Glens Falls, NY 4,298 Goldsboro, NC 4,216 Grand Forks, ND-MN 4,795 Grand Island, NE 4,177 Grand Junction, CO 5,196 Grand Rapids-Wyoming, MI 48,038 Grants Pass, OR 1,875 Great Falls, MT 3,194 Greeley, CO 9,528 Green Bay, WI 17,076 Greensboro-High Point, NC 38,032 Greenville, NC 7,180 Greenville-Anderson-Mauldin, SC 34,953 Gulfport-Biloxi-Pascagoula, MS 16,182 Hagerstown-Martinsburg, MD-WV 8,387 Hammond, LA 3,700 Hanford-Corcoran, CA 5,445 Harrisburg-Carlisle, PA 31,784 Harrisonburg, VA 7,127 Hartford-West Hartford-East Hartford, CT 86,609 Hattiesburg, MS 5,458 Hickory-Lenoir-Morganton, NC 12,414 Hilton Head Island-Bluffton-Beaufort, SC 7,748 Hinesville, GA 3,515 Homosassa Springs, FL 3,167 Hot Springs, AR 3,184 Houma-Thibodaux, LA 12,946 Houston-The Woodlands-Sugar Land, TX 517,367 Huntington-Ashland, WV-KY-OH 13,579 Huntsville, AL 22,923 Idaho Falls, ID 5,567 Indianapolis-Carmel-Anderson, IN 126,472 Iowa City, IA 8,564 Ithaca, NY 4,565 Jackson, MI 5,565 Jackson, MS 28,211 Jackson, TN 5,766 Jacksonville, FL 62,104 Jacksonville, NC 8,052 Janesville-Beloit, WI 5,797 Jefferson City, MO 6,524 Johnson City, TN 6,043 Johnstown, PA 4,230 Jonesboro, AR 4,940 Joplin, MO 6,428 Kahului-Wailuku-Lahaina, HI 7,512 Kalamazoo-Portage, MI 13,926 Kankakee, IL 3,685 Kansas City, MO-KS 117,321 Kennewick-Richland, WA 11,450 Killeen-Temple, TX 15,938 Kingsport-Bristol-Bristol, TN-VA 11,135 Kingston, NY 5,219 Knoxville, TN 36,414 Kokomo, IN 4,220 La Crosse-Onalaska, WI-MN 6,488 Lafayette, LA 28,620 Lafayette-West Lafayette, IN 9,175 Lake Charles, LA 14,858 Lake Havasu City-Kingman, AZ 3,751 Lakeland-Winter Haven, FL 18,691 Lancaster, PA 23,171 Lansing-East Lansing, MI 20,377 Laredo, TX 7,463 Las Cruces, NM 6,423 Las Vegas-Henderson-Paradise, NV 92,991 Lawrence, KS 3,836 Lawton, OK 4,880 Lebanon, PA 4,360 Lewiston, ID-WA 2,074 Lewiston-Auburn, ME 4,049 Lexington-Fayette, KY 26,331 Lima, OH 5,938 Lincoln, NE 16,638 Little Rock-North Little Rock-Conway, AR 40,924 Logan, UT-ID 4,388 Longview, TX 12,547 Longview, WA 3,533 Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim, CA 826,826 Louisville/Jefferson County, KY-IN 64,554 Lubbock, TX 11,910 Lynchburg, VA 8,800 Macon, GA 8,553 Madera, CA 5,160 Madison, WI 42,896 Manchester-Nashua, NH 23,577 Manhattan, KS 3,024 Mankato-North Mankato, MN 4,582 Mansfield, OH 3,917 McAllen-Edinburg-Mission, TX 17,036 Medford, OR 6,758 Memphis, TN-MS-AR 67,936 Merced, CA 7,566 Miami-Fort Lauderdale-West Palm Beach, FL 281,076 Michigan City-La Porte, IN 3,872 Midland, MI 3,923 Midland, TX 25,007 Milwaukee-Waukesha-West Allis, WI 94,374 Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington, MN-WI 227,793 Missoula, MT 4,623 Mobile, AL 18,373 Modesto, CA 18,063 Monroe, LA 6,906 Monroe, MI 4,451 Montgomery, AL 16,508 Morgantown, WV 7,106 Morristown, TN 3,631 Mount Vernon-Anacortes, WA 5,413 Muncie, IN 3,712 Muskegon, MI 5,332 Myrtle Beach-Conway-North Myrtle Beach, SC-NC 15,052 Napa, CA 8,054 Naples-Immokalee-Marco Island, FL 14,370 Nashville-Davidson--Murfreesboro--Franklin, TN 100,841 New Bern, NC 5,030 New Haven-Milford, CT 44,165 New Orleans-Metairie, LA 81,843 New York-Newark-Jersey City, NY-NJ-PA 1,471,170 Niles-Benton Harbor, MI 6,182 North Port-Sarasota-Bradenton, FL 26,064 Norwich-New London, CT 15,368 Ocala, FL 7,364 Ocean City, NJ 4,572 Odessa, TX 9,328 Ogden-Clearfield, UT 24,101 Oklahoma City, OK 71,951 Olympia-Tumwater, WA 9,769 Omaha-Council Bluffs, NE-IA 54,835 Orlando-Kissimmee-Sanford, FL 110,443 Oshkosh-Neenah, WI 9,082 Owensboro, KY 5,270 Oxnard-Thousand Oaks-Ventura, CA 46,074 Palm Bay-Melbourne-Titusville, FL 18,258 Panama City, FL 7,420 Parkersburg-Vienna, WV 3,489 Pensacola-Ferry Pass-Brent, FL 15,202 Peoria, IL 20,503 Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD 383,401 Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale, AZ 209,523 Pine Bluff, AR 3,283 Pittsburgh, PA 131,265 Pittsfield, MA 5,690 Pocatello, ID 2,456 Portland-South Portland, ME 27,529 Portland-Vancouver-Hillsboro, OR-WA 163,692 Port St. Lucie, FL 11,718 Prescott, AZ 4,792 Providence-Warwick, RI-MA 73,334 Provo-Orem, UT 19,102 Pueblo, CO 4,629 Punta Gorda, FL 3,484 Racine, WI 7,541 Raleigh, NC 66,878 Rapid City, SD 6,055 Reading, PA 16,224 Redding, CA 5,310 Reno, NV 20,185 Richmond, VA 68,497 Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, CA 126,761 Roanoke, VA 13,891 Rochester, MN 10,664 Rochester, NY 52,470 Rockford, IL 13,833 Rocky Mount, NC 6,606 Rome, GA 3,390 Sacramento--Roseville--Arden-Arcade, CA 108,165 Saginaw, MI 7,554 St. Cloud, MN 8,596 St. George, UT 4,215 St. Joseph, MO-KS 5,270 St. Louis, MO-IL 145,958 Salem, OR 13,421 Salinas, CA 20,299 Salisbury, MD-DE 14,055 Salt Lake City, UT 76,185 San Angelo, TX 4,536 San Antonio-New Braunfels, TX 96,030 San Diego-Carlsbad, CA 197,886 San Francisco-Oakland-Hayward, CA 388,272 San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA 196,829 San Luis Obispo-Paso Robles-Arroyo Grande, CA 12,396 Santa Cruz-Watsonville, CA 10,901 Santa Fe, NM 7,107 Santa Maria-Santa Barbara, CA 23,695 Santa Rosa, CA 21,880 Savannah, GA 14,779 Scranton--Wilkes-Barre--Hazleton, PA 21,175 Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA 284,967 Sebastian-Vero Beach, FL 4,277 Sebring, FL 1,953 Sheboygan, WI 6,134 Sherman-Denison, TX 3,862 Shreveport-Bossier City, LA 23,565 Sierra Vista-Douglas, AZ 4,221 Sioux City, IA-NE-SD 8,783 Sioux Falls, SD 17,541 South Bend-Mishawaka, IN-MI 13,361 Spartanburg, SC 12,917 Spokane-Spokane Valley, WA 21,353 Springfield, IL 9,443 Springfield, MA 24,360 Springfield, MO 16,731 Springfield, OH 4,026 State College, PA 7,277 Staunton-Waynesboro, VA 4,650 Stockton-Lodi, CA 22,470 Sumter, SC 3,470 Syracuse, NY 30,117 Tallahassee, FL 13,800 Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, FL 122,515 Terre Haute, IN 6,512 Texarkana, TX-AR 5,148 The Villages, FL 2,122 Toledo, OH 31,168 Topeka, KS 9,660 Trenton, NJ 29,411 Tucson, AZ 35,412 Tulsa, OK 55,000 Tuscaloosa, AL 10,266 Tyler, TX 10,876 Urban Honolulu, HI 57,966 Utica-Rome, NY 10,165 Valdosta, GA 4,651 Vallejo-Fairfield, CA 16,281 Victoria, TX 5,298 Vineland-Bridgeton, NJ 5,530 Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC 88,572 Visalia-Porterville, CA 14,227 Waco, TX 9,875 Walla Walla, WA 2,623 Warner Robins, GA 6,711 Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV 463,925 Waterloo-Cedar Falls, IA 8,707 Watertown-Fort Drum, NY 6,563 Wausau, WI 6,497 Weirton-Steubenville, WV-OH 3,666 Wenatchee, WA 4,271 Wheeling, WV-OH 6,677 Wichita, KS 31,532 Wichita Falls, TX 7,038 Williamsport, PA 4,952 Wilmington, NC 12,351 Winchester, VA-WV 5,480 Winston-Salem, NC 27,056 Worcester, MA-CT 37,058 Yakima, WA 9,014 York-Hanover, PA 16,667 Youngstown-Warren-Boardman, OH-PA 18,885 Yuba City, CA 5,475 Yuma, AZ 5,625 "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
September 16, 201410 yr Looking over that list, an interesting fact is that all 3-Cs had better economic growth the past year (either by total or %) than quite a few Sun Belt metros, like Austin. This may coincide with the way that domestic migration to the South is generally slowing down, or in some cases, reversing. I think I posted it here, but Texas is now a net sender of people to Ohio, rather than the other way around that it's been for a long time.
September 16, 201410 yr Well good of you to include Crocker Park. What's Columbus when you include Easton? :) Good news for everybody!
September 16, 201410 yr Columbus would then add two Victoria Secrets to the GDP! "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
September 16, 201410 yr I would have thought the gross percentage change from 2001 to 2013 for Cleveland and Columbus would have been farther apart, instead of 39% and 53%. I can't really complain that we have 3 strong Mid Size cities in Ohio each growing at a similar pace.
September 16, 201410 yr I would have thought the gross percentage change from 2001 to 2013 for Cleveland and Columbus would have been farther apart, instead of 39% and 53%. I can't really complain that we have 3 strong Mid Size cities in Ohio each growing at a similar pace. Now if we can just think of a way to connect them all by non-automotive means........
September 16, 201410 yr ^I included Canton in the 170, due to it being part of the official CSA As you might suspect, CDM has a bit of a bug up his butt about Cleveland-Akron being considered as one metro area. If you wonder why, you take his name for granted -- as well as his longstanding yet fallen-on-deaf-ears campaign to have Columbus and Dayton considered as one metro! I think he also wants Cincinnati and Maysville be in a single metro too. On an actual serious note, it is interesting to see how each of the 3 C's and other Ohio cities' GDP compares with that of various countries. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal) Consider for example that Cleveland's GDP ($122,878,000,000) is almost equal to that of all of Hungary's ($124,600,000,000). Hungary has a pretty decent rail system yet we cannot muster one! EDIT: just tweeted this....... All Aboard Ohio @AllAboardOhio 1m Hungary's GDP $125B barely edges GDPs of Cleveland $123B, Cincinnati $119B & Columbus $114B. Hungary can afford rail: pic.twitter.com/yjEs6jBqTc "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 16, 201410 yr As you might suspect, CDM has a bit of a bug up his butt about Cleveland-Akron being considered as one metro area. If you wonder why, you take his name for granted -- as well as his longstanding yet fallen-on-deaf-ears campaign to have Columbus and Dayton considered as one metro! I think he also wants Cincinnati and Maysville be in a single metro too. Are you back on that Walter White? "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
September 17, 201410 yr According to the 2013 definition, Cleveland CSA population was 3,515,733 Cleveland-Akron-Canton, OH Combined Statistical Area Akron, OH Metropolitan Statistical Area = 703,200 Ashtabula, OH Micropolitan Statistical Area = 100,767 Canton-Massillon, OH Metropolitan Statistical Area = 404,422 Cleveland-Elyria, OH Metropolitan Statistical Area = 2,077,240 New Philadelphia-Dover, OH Micropolitan Statistical Area = 91,766 Norwalk, OH Micropolitan Statistical Area = 60,313 Sandusky, OH Micropolitan Statistical Area = 78,116 Are there non-uantifiable GDP's for the other smaller metros? Or are they grouped together already? Cleveland-Elyria, OH 122,878 Akron, OH 31,485 Canton-Massillon, OH 15,700 Curious to the exact GDP associated with census definition of the Cleveland CSA.
September 23, 201410 yr Are you back on that Walter White? Hello. I am the mirror on the wall. Thank you for talking with me today. See you again tomorrow. Goodbye. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 23, 201410 yr So, looking at the top 20 US metro economies, Cleveland ranks 19th. GDP in Millions of $. 1 New York-Newark-Jersey City, NY-NJ-PA 1,471,170 2 Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim, CA 826,826 3 Chicago-Naperville-Elgin, IL-IN-WI 590,248 4 Houston-The Woodlands-Sugar Land, TX 517,367 5 Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV 463,925 6 Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX 447,574 7 San Francisco-Oakland-Hayward, CA 388,272 8 Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD 383,401 9 Boston-Cambridge-Newton, MA-NH 370,769 10 Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Roswell, GA 307,233 11 Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA 284,967 12 Miami-Fort Lauderdale-West Palm Beach, FL 281,076 13 Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington, MN-WI 227,793 14 Detroit-Warren-Dearborn, MI 224,726 15 Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale, AZ 209,523 16 San Diego-Carlsbad, CA 197,886 17 San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA 196,829 18 Denver-Aurora-Lakewood, CO 178,860 19 Cleveland-Akron-Canton, OH 170,063 20 Baltimore-Columbia-Towson, MD 168,845
September 23, 201410 yr ^For this metric, I'm not sure how much it would matter. Most of the large CSA's are much more similar to the MSA than Greater Cleveland, no? That said, with Greater Cleveland being the 15th most populated CSA in the country, I'm not sure that a ranking of 19th on the GDP is all that much to pound your chest about.
September 24, 201410 yr I was just curious if this was a definitive list of CSA GDP or not. I thought the Los Angeles CSA included San Bernadino and Riverside (Inland Empire), but it doesn't appear to be in the list that Pugu provided, which made me wonder if this was a legit list. If those two were merged, their GDP would be close to a billion!
September 24, 201410 yr ^Well, yes. Also they'd have to combine San Francisco and San Jose; Providence, Worcester, Boston, and Manchester; Washington and Baltimore; and Detroit and Ann Arbor on that list. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
September 24, 201410 yr I thought of the Bay Area, and Detroit seemed small too. Hadn't thought about Providence and Boston sharing a CSA...that's a pretty major city to be included in another city's CSA, no? I guess San Jose is also a major city, but I've always thought of it as being the city of the South Bay, meaning still very much a part of the Bay Area. Providence seems like more of it's own city with a distinct history and culture separate from Boston.
September 24, 201410 yr Well, so is Baltimore and Washington but they are combined for a CSA. Same could be said for Akron being it's own city with a distinct history and culture separate from Cleveland. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
September 24, 201410 yr Assuming the numbers have not changed that much since an official list/study was last released released, the placement of Cleveland's CSA on the listing above seems to be fairly accurate. Of course, the 170 is not the official CSA GDP. That is a rough calculation when you add up Cleveland, Akron, and Canton's MSAs. There might be another $10mill or so if there are areas in the CSA which are not within any of those MSAs. http://www.city-data.com/forum/city-vs-city/1378816-2010-combined-statistical-area-gross-product.html
September 24, 201410 yr speaking cities sharing csa's, its funny that dc-balt and cle-akr are both 39 miles apart.
June 11, 20187 yr Here's the latest 2017 GDP data from the US Conference of Mayors Report, measuring the economic worth (in GDP) of Midwest metros: 1. Chicago: $675.8B 2. Detroit: $262.3B 3. MSP: $259.5B 4. St. Louis: $162.1B 5. Indianapolis: $142.9B 6. Cincinnati: $137.6B 7. Columbus: $137.2B 8. Cleveland: $133.9B 9. Kansas City: $133.1B 10. Milwaukee: $105.5B 11. Omaha: $64.8B 12. Grand Rapids: $61B 13. Des Moines: $54.4B 14. Madison: $50.3B 15. Dayton: $42B 16. Akron: $38.3B 17. Toledo: $33.9B 18. Wichita: $32.6B 19. Lansing: $23B 20. Ann Arbor: $22.8B 21. Fort Wayne: $21.9B 22. Peoria: $20.5B 23. Lincoln: $20.3B 24. Youngstown: $20.2B 25. Quad Cities: $19.8B 26. Sioux Falls: $19.6B 27. Green Bay: $19.3B 28. Springfield, MO: $19B 29. Cedar Rapids: $18.6B 30. Evansville: $17.8B http://www.usmayors.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Metro-Economies-GMP-June-2018.pdf "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
June 11, 20187 yr ^Yeah right, Columbus and Indianapolis are bigger than Cleveland. If you remove parts of the Cleveland metro--like twinsburg where there's a lot of manufacturing--and other parts, you can achieve this fiction like you show above.
June 11, 20187 yr ^Yeah right, Columbus and Indianapolis are bigger than Cleveland. If you remove parts of the Cleveland metro--like twinsburg where there's a lot of manufacturing--and other parts, you can achieve this fiction like you show above. relax. this is based on MSAs. There's nothing we can do to change it. I was shocekd at how big Chicago is. I guess I shouldn't be.
June 11, 20187 yr It's more telling that Minneapolis REALLY punches above its weight by almost matching Detroit, a metropolitan area with more than 700,000 people (an entire Akron!). "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
June 11, 20187 yr Look how Lansing is taking over Michigan since it is the state capital and 50,000-student Michigan State is there. I mean, all those government workers and all of those academic workers that Cleveland doesn't have. Because of all those government workers and steady university jobs.
June 11, 20187 yr It's more telling that Minneapolis REALLY punches above its weight by almost matching Detroit, a metropolitan area with more than 700,000 people (an entire Akron!). Although, Windsor is part of the economic area of Detroit and it is not picked up since it is across an international border.
June 11, 20187 yr I don't think it would make much of a dent (Windsor's metropolitan area is comparable to Canton, Ohio's). Minneapolis, Des Moines, and Omaha are quite notable stand-outs on that list. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
June 12, 20187 yr Here's the latest 2017 GDP data from the US Conference of Mayors Report, measuring the economic worth (in GDP) of Midwest metros: 1. Chicago: $675.8B 2. Detroit: $262.3B 3. MSP: $259.5B 4. St. Louis: $162.1B 5. Indianapolis: $142.9B 6. Cincinnati: $137.6B 7. Columbus: $137.2B 8. Cleveland: $133.9B 9. Kansas City: $133.1B 10. Milwaukee: $105.5B 11. Omaha: $64.8B 12. Grand Rapids: $61B 13. Des Moines: $54.4B 14. Madison: $50.3B 15. Dayton: $42B 16. Akron: $38.3B 17. Toledo: $33.9B 18. Wichita: $32.6B 19. Lansing: $23B 20. Ann Arbor: $22.8B 21. Fort Wayne: $21.9B 22. Peoria: $20.5B 23. Lincoln: $20.3B 24. Youngstown: $20.2B 25. Quad Cities: $19.8B 26. Sioux Falls: $19.6B 27. Green Bay: $19.3B 28. Springfield, MO: $19B 29. Cedar Rapids: $18.6B 30. Evansville: $17.8B http://www.usmayors.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Metro-Economies-GMP-June-2018.pdf No idea what the accuracy of these numbers are, as the BEA hasn't released metro totals for 2017 yet. If they are, the 2016-2017 change for the 3-Cs would be something like: Cincinnati: +$5.6 billion Cleveland: +$4.5 billion Columbus: +$6.5 billion And the supposed 2018 estimate/projection Top 10: 1. Chicago: 703.9 2. Detroit: 274.2 3. Minneapolis: 268.3 4. St. Louis: 168.0 5. Indianapolis: 149.7 6. Cincinnati: 143.9 7. Columbus: 143.9 8. Cleveland: 139.9 9. Kansas City: 138.9 10. Milwaukee: 110.5
June 12, 20187 yr ^Yeah right, Columbus and Indianapolis are bigger than Cleveland. If you remove parts of the Cleveland metro--like twinsburg where there's a lot of manufacturing--and other parts, you can achieve this fiction like you show above. relax. this is based on MSAs. There's nothing we can do to change it. Dallas and Ft Worth merged their MSAs; they decided bigger numbers and regional marketing would benefit both cities more than going it alone. I don't see why we couldn't reasonably have a Cleveland-Akron MSA. Including Canton might be an economic 'bridge-too-far', based on Census Bureau definitions. Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
June 12, 20187 yr ^Yeah right, Columbus and Indianapolis are bigger than Cleveland. If you remove parts of the Cleveland metro--like twinsburg where there's a lot of manufacturing--and other parts, you can achieve this fiction like you show above. relax. this is based on MSAs. There's nothing we can do to change it. Dallas and Ft Worth merged their MSAs; they decided bigger numbers and regional marketing would benefit both cities more than going it alone. I don't see why we couldn't reasonably have a Cleveland-Akron MSA. Including Canton might be an economic 'bridge-too-far', based on Census Bureau definitions. They didn't decide to merge. The federal government has a standard definition they use. Dallas and Ft. Worth grew together.
June 12, 20187 yr Oh please. Everything that indicates that Cleveland's economy and population turns into a MSA blame-game. By no stretch of the imagination does Cleveland-Akron compare to Dallas-Ft. Worth.
June 12, 20187 yr Even if we merge the MSA's it doesn't change the fact that the region is lagging. Our efforts need to be placed on the current leadership (GCP, TeamNEO, etc.) Focusing on the MSA boundary is not the solution. Yes, we would be the largest economic region in Ohio but the problems would still exist.
June 12, 20187 yr Oddly enough, the presence of Cuyahoga Valley National Park is probably the sole reason why Cleveland and Akron isn't a unified MSA. It's hard to be a contiguous region when you have a large national park right between the two cities. So the region gets the benefit of having a national park right outside the cities, but the tradeoff is not getting to be a consolidated MSA, a metric that few people outside of the real estate and planning worlds care about. It is interesting to note, though, that if you combine Cincinnati with Dayton and Cleveland with Akron, they become the 4th and 5th largest metro GDPs by a large margin. Indy and St. Louis don't have smaller metros around them, so their numbers really show the true picture of their region's economic production. Both SW and NE Ohio have secondary metros beyond the primary city of the region, so when you look at the data this way, it's much more impressive. And yeah, MSP is really over performing here. It's not THAT much larger of a metro than any of the 3Cs, but it has a very large GDP. I'd say this is probably due to it's geographic isolation as much as anything else. There is really no other urban area even close to MSP, so it serves as the metro area for basically the entire upper midwest. All that grain and agriculture from the plains gets sent through MSP. Agribusiness and food production is huge up there.
June 12, 20187 yr Oh please. Everything that indicates that Cleveland's economy and population turns into a MSA blame-game. By no stretch of the imagination does Cleveland-Akron compare to Dallas-Ft. Worth. Oh please. No one compared Cleveland-Akron TO Dallas-Ft.Worth. Dougal was merely using them as an example of two cities who have recently merged into one MSA. At any rate, don't be surprised to see talk of combining Cle/Akr into one MSA intensify over the next few years. It was actually brought a few times during the Q&A portion of Pinney's speech at the City Club meeting last week. It really opened some eyes..
June 12, 20187 yr They've been saying the same thing with Cin-Day for decades too, and it still hasn't happened. “To an Ohio resident - wherever he lives - some other part of his state seems unreal.”
June 12, 20187 yr I will say it again. Worrying about merging the MSAs is losing focus on the actual problem Merging the MSAs will fix nothing.
June 12, 20187 yr And yeah, MSP is really over performing here. It's not THAT much larger of a metro than any of the 3Cs, but it has a very large GDP. I'd say this is probably due to it's geographic isolation as much as anything else. There is really no other urban area even close to MSP, so it serves as the metro area for basically the entire upper midwest. All that grain and agriculture from the plains gets sent through MSP. Agribusiness and food production is huge up there. I'm sure this is a factor but MSP is also well managed and well kept. MSP looks just like Cleveland except the buildings are maintained and the storefronts have stores in them. Ask somebody why they want to live somewhere, or why they don't, and few will cite any economic or geographic data. Most will comment instead on what the place looks like and/or the ease of living there.
June 12, 20187 yr ^ Oh sure, MSP does a lot of things well. They've got a great transit system, and they really seem to embrace regionalism there. The Twin Cities have been kind of under the radar cool for a long time, I think. I hear they have a great music and art scene. But again, I think a lot of that can be traced to being the only game in town. If you're a somewhat interesting person from small town Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska, etc., MSP is basically where you end up gravitating to. There are a number of cities that benefit from this same type of situation: Denver, the PNW cities of Seattle and Portland, New Orleans, hell, probably even Boston, as it's the only real big city of New England. A kid in small town Ohio/Kentucky/Indiana has 3-4 bigger cities within a couple hours from home to choose from.
June 12, 20187 yr ^That's an interesting way of looking at it. I've always thought about how each Ohio's city's overall clout is somewhat dampened by the fact that the big metros are fairly evenly sized (whereas if we just had one "big" MSA it would be the second-largest in the Midwest), but I never really thought about it from a regional perspective. I guess there's both advantages and disadvantages to having so many other cities within driving distance of each other in the region. Meanwhile in Denver, by the time you've reached another city of note via car, you could have driven all the way to the Acela corridor from Ohio. “To an Ohio resident - wherever he lives - some other part of his state seems unreal.”
June 12, 20187 yr I will say it again. Worrying about merging the MSAs is losing focus on the actual problem Merging the MSAs will fix nothing. That's not entirely true. Listen to what Tracey Nichols (during Pinney City Club meeting) had to say about the negative effects of not having a larger MSA.
Create an account or sign in to comment