Gaslight Market aims for April opening

Clifton grocery gets final loan approval

7:21 PM, Dec 31, 2012 

 

Clifton could get its grocery store back by the end of April.

 

Steve Goessling, owner of the former Keller’s IGA on Ludlow, said Monday that he has received final approval on the construction loan for the $4.1 million project, and closing is tentatively scheduled for Jan. 9.

 

“Now the real work will begin,” he said.

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20121231/BIZ/312310104/Gaslight-Market-aims-April-opening

^  Promises, promises, promises!  (Deja vu.)  At this late date, the only way that such press releases can be taken seriously is the moment when the "Gaslight Market" opens its doors and shoppers actually enter. 

Clifton could get its grocery store back by the end of April.

 

Steve Goessling, owner of the former Keller’s IGA on Ludlow, said Monday that he has received final approval on the construction loan for the $4.1 million project, and closing is tentatively scheduled for Jan. 9.

 

“Now the real work will begin,” he said.

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20121231/BIZ/312310104/Gaslight-Market-aims-April-opening

 

Clifton Gaslight Market gets final go ahead

 

he encountered several delays in lining up funding for the $4.1 million renovation. The $1.89 million construction loan from Fifth Third, expected to be finalized three weeks ago, was the final piece of the puzzle.

 

“Hallelujah,” Goessling said after Thursday’s closing.

 

He said he needs to consult with general contractor Reece-Campbell Inc. before announcing an opening date, but he hopes work can start next week.

 

Deja vu al over again

I moved from a building near Clifton and Ludlow, eights months after Keller's IGA closed.

Then I moved from Bishop Street one year later.

Now I live in Clifton Heights, two years after the grocery store closed.

 

At some point, you just lost interest, and the empty promises mean nothing to you. As crappy as most people say it is, a grocery store is a grocery store, and I like being able to walk to the University Plaza Kroger. Between that Kroger and Findlay Market, I can get anything I *need*. Unlike an unfortunate conversation I had with someone, a few months back, who was angry because the OTR Kroger didn't carry *refrigerated* pickles. First world problems.

I moved from a building near Clifton and Ludlow, eights months after Keller's IGA closed.

Then I moved from Bishop Street one year later.

Now I live in Clifton Heights, two years after the grocery store closed.

 

At some point, you just lost interest, and the empty promises mean nothing to you.

 

Makes perfect sense to me! This has been an unmitigated disaster for the Clifton neighborhood.

Feb 8, 2013, 7:38am EST

Renovation of former Keller’s IGA to start next week

Staff Business Courier

 

Construction on the former Keller’s IGA will finally begin next week, wcpo.com reported.

 

The new store, Goessling’s Market-Clifton, will start with construction of a new roof and interior as early as Monday. The store’s reopening was originally scheduled for January 2013, but was delayed because of issues with getting an approved loan from the city while they worked with the Grow America Fund to get the money.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/morning_call/2013/02/renovation-of-former-kellers-iga-to.html

At this point though, I'd be concerned that his customers have found other places to shop, albeit less convenient places maybe. One of the major selling points to reopen this grocery is that fact that there are so many elderly/carless/etc in this area. All those people have found new places to shop over the past 2+ years and have made it work. What is Goessling going to do to win these customers back? Surely he cannot compete on price with the Kroger/ALDI/Walmart etc where former patrons of this store are now going. Perhaps people have seen that getting on a bus or carpooling down the street to Kroger is not as big a deal as they once thought.

 

Furthermore, I have to be skeptical of the business savvy of the Goessling group. They come in knowing how difficult the lending environment is right now yet still continue to make all these specific promises and sharing their timeline with the public, both huge mistakes. Clearly they have never heard of under-promising and over-delivering. How does this kind of impulsive decision-making translate into the day-to-day operation of the business? That remains to be seen.

 

And this guy has the nerve to talk about how he is interested in opening a location DT or in OTR.....ooooookay, buddy.

I currently shop in the Corryville Kroger or at a Kroger close to where I work in Montgomery.  Once this new store opens, I don't plan on going anywhere else.  From where I live, I have to drive to Kroger anyways and would be more than willing to add three minutes to the trip to go to a nice grocery store.  Kroghetto just doesn't cut it.

Plus, there's new people moving in all the time because of UC.

ok, some guy I don't know just posted on the Nextdoor.com site that Trader Joe's is moving into the Ludlow Ave IGA.

He posted a 2AM with no details.

Probably just a drunken rumor...

^Awesome, if true.

Yeah, I think that's premature to announce, if there is any truth to it at all.

Must be the same folks who want a Trader Joe's in the former Save-a-Lot in Northside.

Would be amazing but very unlikely. Trader joes love suburban style shopping malls. Only a very few aren't in large parking lots, etc. if they are semi urban, they are in very wealthy areas.  Clifton is wealthy, but not very large. Trader Joes keeps its costs low by having a massive volume of sales. They would need to be packed all the time.

 

I'll cross my fingers, but I won't hold my breath.

'Nati got luck with the Trader Joe's "only" as far as Kenwood. In Seabus we gotta go all the way to Dublin or Easton.

Would be amazing but very unlikely. Trader joes love suburban style shopping malls. Only a very few aren't in large parking lots, etc. if they are semi urban, they are in very wealthy areas.  Clifton is wealthy, but not very large. Trader Joes keeps its costs low by having a massive volume of sales. They would need to be packed all the time.

 

I'll cross my fingers, but I won't hold my breath.

 

I agree with most of what you say, but I know of quite a few urban Trader Joes.  The store in DC's West End is built into a residential building, and I don't even know if there is parking provided (there probably is, I just always walked there when I lived near by). There are also a few urban TJs in the LA area, including one that anchors a relatively new highrise in Hollywood. Another in Silverlake is built to the street, but does have a small parking lot in the rear.

^there are now 3 Trader Joe's in Manhattan, and 1 in Brooklyn. Although in NYC it's obviously not a problem to attract enough people for the "massive volume of sales" mentioned, for a number of years there was only one location, on 14th St, and it attracted people from all over the city; so I'm guessing wherever in Cincinnati they put one, it will have little trouble attracting enough customers to make it profitable, such is the magnet of the Trader Joe's brand with its quality and low prices.

I believe there is only like one trader joes in the whole Cincy region and its near Kenwood right now, where the money is.

 

In Chicago there are 4 urban stores and all but one (South Loop) are in the North Side where the money is, and even the south loop is pretty well off.  I think Cincy will have to wait a few years on the gentrification curve / developers getting on board with urban revitalization to get one.

I would never for a moment compare Clifton and Cincinnati to Brooklyn, Manhattan, Hollywood or silverlake.

 

Silverlake, the least wealthy on that list, is made up of 4-6 census tracts that range from 10-20k people per square mile, let alone the fact that it is 1 mile from several census tracts tha are between 30-40k people per square mile.

 

Clifton is 4k people per square mile, northside is 5-6k, Avondale is 5-6k but it doesn't have the purchasing power or Clifton, and then there's CUF, which has two that are above 10k.

 

If there is an urban feelin Trader Joes in St Louis, Columbus, Indy, Pittsburgh or Cleveland I could see us getting one.

Alright. Looked into those cities.

 

Only Pittsburgh comes close, but it's still a hard comparison to the Ludlow business district...

 

The remainder are all  in subruban style strip shopping centers.

I hate to be pessimistic, but I don't really think that cities in "flyover country" with no established rail transit and most of their wealthy residents concentrated in sprawl are going to attract an urban TJ's or Whole Foods in the near term.

Have you seen Milwaukee's Whole Foods?  It's gorgeous, urban, and surrounded by demographics very similar to Clifton.

At the same time it's close enough to Chicago that the concept of an urban grocery isn't so foreign

^there are now 3 Trader Joe's in Manhattan, and 1 in Brooklyn. Although in NYC it's obviously not a problem to attract enough people for the "massive volume of sales" mentioned, for a number of years there was only one location, on 14th St, and it attracted people from all over the city; so I'm guessing wherever in Cincinnati they put one, it will have little trouble attracting enough customers to make it profitable, such is the magnet of the Trader Joe's brand with its quality and low prices.

 

There's one in Forest Park in Queens too, that was always packed. It's probably a little more comparable to the site in Clifton, as it had ample parking.

Forest Park in Queens has 83,000 people living in 2.4 square miles. Not really an equal comparison.

Have you seen Milwaukee's Whole Foods?  It's gorgeous, urban, and surrounded by demographics very similar to Clifton.

 

This is the closest comparison so far. Murray Hill is like a flatter, denser CUF (primarily students, dense housing, etc). It's also surrounded by institutions whose faculty and staff (hospital and University of Wisconsin) have disposable income and even though they don't live there could swing by on their way home. It's also pretty close to downtown. If CUF was even denser/larger I would have loved to see a grocery store in USquare.

Found this nugget about Trader Joe's locations:

 

"Within a 15–minute driving radius of a potential site,” one expert told a forlorn Savannah journalist, “there must be at least 36,000 people with four–year college degrees who have a median age of 44 and earn a combined household income of $64K a year.

 

Via this article: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-27/why-walmart-will-never-pay-like-costco.html

That's the other problem with college students: Way too much of their diet consists ramen, pizza rolls, delivery pizzas and cereal to do TJ's a lot of good. Their bodies don't demand the higher-quality foods that a 25+ body does.

That's the other problem with college students: Way too much of their diet consists ramen, pizza rolls, delivery pizzas and cereal to do TJ's a lot of good. Their bodies don't demand the higher-quality foods that a 25+ body does.

 

You really think that Trader Joes has high quality food?  Trader Joes specializes in microwave meals, canned foods and prepacked meats. They have a very small produce section with poor quality fruit and veggies.  Relative to other grocery stores TJ's is packed with cheap "non-fresh" foods like ramen, pizza rolls, cereal, and similar products.  I think it is a perfect fit for college students. 

That's the other problem with college students: Way too much of their diet consists ramen, pizza rolls, delivery pizzas and cereal to do TJ's a lot of good. Their bodies don't demand the higher-quality foods that a 25+ body does.

 

You really think that Trader Joes has high quality food?  Trader Joes specializes in microwave meals, canned foods and prepacked meats. They have a very small produce section with poor quality fruit and veggies.  Relative to other grocery stores TJ's is packed with cheap "non-fresh" foods like ramen, pizza rolls, cereal, and similar products.  I think it is a perfect fit for college students. 

 

So it's not just the TJ's I went to, then. I was expecting a lower-tier Whole Foods, and got a convenience-grocery store hybrid that didn't seem to live up to the hype at all.

It's owned by Aldi's.  Just sayin'.

That's the other problem with college students: Way too much of their diet consists ramen, pizza rolls, delivery pizzas and cereal to do TJ's a lot of good. Their bodies don't demand the higher-quality foods that a 25+ body does.

 

You really think that Trader Joes has high quality food?  Trader Joes specializes in microwave meals, canned foods and prepacked meats. They have a very small produce section with poor quality fruit and veggies.  Relative to other grocery stores TJ's is packed with cheap "non-fresh" foods like ramen, pizza rolls, cereal, and similar products.  I think it is a perfect fit for college students. 

it all depends on what you mean by "high quality." Trader Joes specializes in prepared foods which are, well, very well prepared. They offer creative variations on the items you've mentioned that are, in my opinion (and evidently by the millions of people who pack their stores everyday), a few notches above what you find in more run-of-the-mill, traditional supermarkets, at prices that are competitive, and in many cases, below what you'd find in those stores. They frequently introduce new items and remove ones that aren't selling that well (I'm personally pissed they discontinued the caponata--a large jar--made in Italy--at least that was the claim--for only $3.99). As for the produce, it's maybe not what you would find at a farmer's market or even the overrated, overpriced Whole Foods, but I find it more than decent.

There are actually some articles out there comparing Trader Joe's with its private labels. In general, Trader Joe's - like Aldi, will introduce brand name products that have good recognition with its key demographics - think Annie's dressings, Amy's Kitchen pizzas, Poland Springs water, Stonyfield yogurt and so forth. If its successful, Trader Joe's will all but convince them to produce the product under its own label - and these meetings are held weekly.

 

 

Some of those relationships were unveiled by Fortune:

http://money.cnn.com/2010/08/20/news/companies/inside_trader_joes_full_version.fortune/index.htm

 

Consumer Reports also had a decent article that showed nearly identical products being sold both at other stores and at Trader Joe's. One involved pretzels - at Target, they were large intact pieces; at Trader Joe's, they were smashed into smaller chunks.

 

And, unlike other companies, like Whole Foods, Trader Joe's/Aldi has never been transparent and has been put under fire multiple times for its poor quality of foods. Here is a recent example from Consumer Report's Consumerist blog:

http://consumerist.com/2013/07/25/trader-joes-customers-we-dont-want-drugs-in-our-meat/

Update from the Clifton Market (former IGA)

 

Please take a look at our latest update on our progress.

 

Hello Friends and Neighbors,

 

I am writing you on behalf of the Clifton Cooperative Market organizing committee. We are a group of Clifton residents, business owners, and philanthropists who have been working tirelessly for the past six months to return a full service grocery store to Clifton. Also on our team are the original marketing and financial architects of the community effort to keep the Esquire Theater open and viable. In light of some of the information circulating throughout the community we felt it would be a good time to provide an update of our activities and achievements over the past several months.

 

Currently we are in negotiations with Steve Goessling to purchase the former IGA property. As negotiations are ongoing we can only discuss some limited details of the matter. What we can share at this point is that we have negotiated a fair and competitive price for the property. As recently as Wednesday, February 12th Goessling indicated verbally that he would sign a letter of intent with the Clifton Cooperative Market. However, later in the week another party expressed interest in the property. We are hopeful that negotiations will be resolved in short order and in our favor so that we can get to work opening a full service grocery store.

 

In the past couple months we have finalized our bylaws and developed a financial plan with the assistance of nationally renowned cooperative specialists. We have incorporated with the state of Ohio as a cooperative and intend to begin fundraising and selling shares immediately. Cooperative designation will allow us to raise funds quickly without the regulatory red tape of a limited liability corporation. Shares to join the Clifton Cooperative Market will start at $200 but not be a requirement to shop at the store.

 

Our cooperative grocery store will be a full service store run much like any other grocery store with a general manager and a paid staff. Anyone can shop at the store and we will NOT have volunteer labor of shareholders like some older coop concepts. The big difference with our store vs. other groceries is that ours will be owned and run by the community. Shareholders will be able to vote for an executive board and make decisions from what laundry detergent is sold to capital improvements.

 

All market studies to date have indicated that the former IGA is a very feasible location for a grocery store and could be a regional draw to the Clifton shopping district with the right products and design. Clifton could have the modern Trader Joes and Whole Foods concept but stocked with local produce and meats. This is a real opportunity like the Esquire and the CCAC to be part of preserving our neighborhood. We will need your help raising the necessary funds to complete the project. We are planning to hold a large public meeting in the near future. Also, please visit our website or send a message to [email protected] to let us know if you would like to buy a share or provide a loan or donation to the Clifton Cooperative Market. (http://cliftonmarket.com/)

Folks in Clifton, Northside & College Hill are all looking at options. Any one would be fine by me but I think it's most important for the Clifton community to have a general store.

I like the co-op idea. Some co-ops I've been to are so awesomely amazing, I would love to see the concept repeated on Ludlow.

 

It's a shame the three neighborhoods Quimbob mentioned all have large abandoned grocery stores. College Hill's has been abandoned for probably close to two decades!

Casa Nueva in Athens might be the oldest co-op in the state, founded in 1986:

 

http://www.casanueva.com/start-a-co-op

There is a very successful co-op in Ithaca, NY called GreenStar. It has two locations and is looking at opening a third. This is in a market that is already served by multiple large grocery chains - proof that the cooperative grocery model can work if executed correctly in an area with the right demographics.

 

http://www.greenstar.coop/

I'm too lazy to look into this.  So if you become a co-owner of one of these co-ops, do you sell a "share" back to the co-op when you leave?  Or do you retain residual income after you leave actively working there? 

Jake, take a look at what Good Foods Co-op does in Lexington: http://www.goodfoods.coop/ownership.php. With Good Foods, you buy a $200 share. If you leave, that $200 is fully refundable.

Kind of shocked that Cranley is interested in investing in the city. As a DAAP student, I've thought about the land bridge idea before and actually kind of like this whole park idea.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/blog/2014/03/could-burnet-woods-be-cincinnatis-next-great.html

Kind of shocked that Cranley is interested in investing in the city. As a DAAP student, I've thought about the land bridge idea before and actually kind of like this whole park idea.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/blog/2014/03/could-burnet-woods-be-cincinnatis-next-great.html

 

Instead of an expensive pedestrian bridge, we should make MLK into a complete street that serves pedestrians, not just cars, and is easier to cross.

"You drive down Clifton Avenue, it's like a wall and you can't see inside, you can't see out. It's creepy. And that's the way people feel about it," Cranley said. "That's a shame because it's an enormous asset that's underutilized."

 

Well, I guess even a broken clock is right twice a day.  I didn't go to UC and I don't spend a ton of time in Clifton, but I had no idea that Burnett Woods was even a park.  Sounds like it could benefit from a redesign, some better signage, and maybe a new name (Burnett Park).

Yeah a lot of people forget there's even a frisbee golf course in there  Renovation would help keep those creepy dudes out of the park that like to spy on young girls.  Its a weird place.  You walk through there and forget it's Clifton (in a bad way).

I think the big problem that Burnet Woods faces is that people think it's sketchy. It's not dangerous, so that part of the perception is unfair. But I can see why people would be turned off by the closeted men cruising for sex.

 

Personally, I regularly used the park from the time I was a kid living in Clifton to the time I graduated from UC and skipped town. I cringe at the idea of it being renamed.

 

I thought everyone knew about the park, at least for its large concrete slide. The pond is popular for urban fishing.

Yeah a lot of people forget there's even a frisbee golf course in there  Renovation would help keep those creepy dudes out of the park that like to spy on young girls.  Its a weird place.  You walk through there and forget it's Clifton (in a bad way).

 

They aren't spying on girls!

The park has some awesome features: a beautiful bandstand, a fishing pond, a great nature center (where my kids took summer camps), a small planetarium (yeah a planetarium), a fountain at Clifton and Jefferson, 2 playgrounds (one with a concrete slide), a star shaped picnic pavilion, and a nature trail through the woods with some decent sized trees.  However, the parking lot by the upper playground has for decades been a gay male pickup spot that is indeed creepy... I mean come on guys, there are little kids playing within eyesight. 

 

In the past, the Cliftonites have been opposed to encroachment into the wooded area with further structures or programming.  They want it to remain wooded as originally intended.

In the past, the Cliftonites have been opposed to encroachment into the wooded area with further structures or programming.  They want it to remain wooded as originally intended.

 

Seems to me there could be a happy medium. At least the exterior edges of the park could be made a bit more inviting. But having a forested oasis in the area is nice.

 

I don't feel like the place is broken, though. It's nice and there for anyone who wants to visit. And, while perhaps under-utilized, it's not empty. Though the cruising is a bit out of control. Maybe they could designate an area where it's tolerated, instead of basically letting it run rampant throughout the park. In the Netherlands, they even put up signs for cruising areas, so families know to keep children out and men understand not to venture out of those spots. The idea being you aren't going to erase the problem by law enforcement alone.

All of UC was once part of Burnet Woods.  The city sold over 80 acres of land to UC in 2 separate purchases.  The city should consider selling more of it and allowing UC to expand northward.

I remember there was a plan floated around a few years ago to put a restaurant in the park.  I seem to remember the preliminary sketches showed it almost as a treehouse? There might have even been a poll to see what kind of restaurant was desired for the park. I think a restaurant in the park would really help bring some visibility into the park, and would probably take care of some of the creepy elements.