It really depends what video games you play as far how well your career goes. Madden is always OK; Final Fantasy is not. Mario = good; Shin Magami Tensei = bad.

 

What's interesting to me as someone who has owned game stores for such as long time is that I haven't spent much time playing video games since middle school. But I do read about them. So I'd get pegged as a gamer by people who were playing Madden 4 hours a night almost every night while I actually only play games 1-2 hours a week max. I remember when I took on a friend as a roommate and all of our other friends were asking him "Dude, I bet he plays video games every single second, doesn't he?" My roommate said, "He never does. But YOU do."

When I was a senior in college, my best friend at the time and I drove over to some guy's house and took his girlfriend on spring break.  He was playing NBA Jams when we left.  A week later we drop her off and he's sitting on the same spot on the couch, still playing NBA Jams. 

Boomshakalaka!

I walked out of Clifton Market today worried that that was the last time I'll ever buy food there.  It looks like its closure is imminent. 

 

Almost nothing on the shelves.  Nobody manning the bakery.   The cases bare where they sold the salmon, meatloaf, olives, etc.  No sushi.  No rotisserie chicken.  Not much happening in the beer cave. 

 

The worst sign of all?  No Clifton Market paper bags. 

Damn, that’s a real shame. There’s just not enough population in Clifton to support a store, I guess. I sure hope the proposal to build apartments on the site of the parking lot actually comes to fruition. If the market closes, it should be demolished and redeveloped with a mixed use building. A few more hundred residents right on Ludlow would give a boost to the business district.  

They totally weren't getting families in there.  They probably couldn't get diapers at a reasonable price and so people went to Kroger for that reason alone.  I didn't see parents with a kid in a shopping cart even one time. 

First two photos are of the Deacon and the second is Children’s. Forgot all about the Ronald Mcdonald  house.

Medical office building at the corner of MLK & Clifton is fenced off, so pay your respects:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1353767,-84.5201163,3a,71.7y,225.56h,96.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sXrJCiRw639wMPEk9n5H66A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

5 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

Medical office building at the corner of MLK & Clifton is fenced off, so pay your respects:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1353767,-84.5201163,3a,71.7y,225.56h,96.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sXrJCiRw639wMPEk9n5H66A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

The owners of 330 Probasco seem to still be holding out, and that's the only parcel not owned by the Tri-Health / Good Sam group in that ~4 acre block of empty lots. Who knows... maybe they've entered a purchase agreement and it just hasn't closed yet. 

Has a new development already been announced for that site?

18 minutes ago, taestell said:

Has a new development already been announced for that site?

Not that I'm aware of. TriHealth has gradually been buying parcels around that building... not sure what their plans are for the space. 

10 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

Medical office building at the corner of MLK & Clifton is fenced off, so pay your respects:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1353767,-84.5201163,3a,71.7y,225.56h,96.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sXrJCiRw639wMPEk9n5H66A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Finally! They told me they were going to demo that building back in 2012 when the new Tri-health building opened on Dixmyth.

2 hours ago, taestell said:

Has a new development already been announced for that site?

 

I believe that there was a vague announcement for a new Tri-Health MOB.  Obviously, it would be a great place for a large mixed-use project.  However, we have to wonder how much the Deaconess project will affect the apartment rental market.  The first phase alone is very large, with 1,000+ more units possible. 

1 hour ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

I believe that there was a vague announcement for a new Tri-Health MOB.  Obviously, it would be a great place for a large mixed-use project.  However, we have to wonder how much the Deaconess project will affect the apartment rental market.  The first phase alone is very large, with 1,000+ more units possible. 

 

Maybe it will lead to less demolition in the area - one would hope...

I saw the article about the proposed Clifton Cultural Arts Center in Burnett Woods, and I really hope that project is able to go forward. The park is a great resource for the Clifton community, as well as the greater Uptown area, but it's been in need of a refresh for quite some time. A lot of the park is very lightly used, and I think it could use the shot in the arm that the CCAC would bring to it. The proposed building design looked to be sensitive to the park surroundings, and I think it'd be great for the general activity of the area.

 

Of course, there are neighborhood 'activists' who are trying to 'save' the park by preventing this, or any other, building from being built in the park. I love Clifton, and I've always said that if I was to ever move back to Cincinnati, I would probably live in the Gaslight area of Clifton. That said, the neighborhood is very frustrating to observe from an outsider perspective. The neighborhood simply needs more people, more density, more attractions, more activity. The new development at the merchant's lot needs to happen. The new CCAC needs to happen. There is an ABUNDANCE of park land and open space in Cincinnati generally, but specifically Clifton. In addition to Burnett Woods, they have Mt. Storm Park, Rawson Woods Preserve, Edgewood Grove Park, and the Jewish cemetery right there in Clifton. Zoom out a little further, and there is Fairview Park, Belleview Park, Inwood Park,  and Spring Grove Cemetery like 5 mins away. Plus, so many of the homes in Clifton have huge front or back yards...the whole neighborhood is like a park! It's just nonsense to claim that allowing a thriving neighborhood arts organization to build in the park will somehow rob the people of Clifton of opportunities to experience nature. The troubles of the coop grocery store should be a wake up call to the NIMBYs, but I'm sure it won't be. They keep shooting down new investments and new development and then wondering why they're falling behind other neighborhoods.

Burnett Woods won't be improved until Avondale gentrifies.  Clifton residents don't want black family reunions in Burnett Woods.  They have made it extraordinarily expensive to rent the solitary rentable shelter in Burnett Woods -- the "trailside shelter".  You need a special event permit, it's $75/hr, and you have to walk through the woods and up the hill to the bandstand bathroom.  So they have done everything but have the trailside shelter torn down. 

 

 

^^As far as I know, Rawson Woods Preserve and Edgewood Grove don't have any public trails. According to the Parks website: https://www.cincinnatiparks.com/central/rawson-woods-bird-preserve/

Quote

In 1923, Joseph Rawson, Frances Helen Rawson and the heirs of Edward Rawson “In order to preserve some of the woodland in Clifton in its present primitive state” donated to the City of Cincinnati for park purposes the first acreage of Rawson Woods Bird Preserve. An additional gift in 1928 brought the total acreage to 10.659. The area is kept in its natural state and is only open to the public through arrangements with Park Board naturalists.

 

I'm definitely in favor of CCAC moving to Burnet Woods, and I think the corner of MLK/Clifton would be a great location for it, since it's a high traffic, high visibility intersection. It is well suited for a building, and not great for outdoor space as a park. 

^I doubt that many people who call for the preservation of Burnett Woods as woods have ever hiked there.  You get about 90 seconds of "woods" until you pop out to another drive or whatever.  You can hear automobile noise the whole time.  Letting the whole place grow back into woods wouldn't change that - it's just not enough space for actual hiking.  You can ride your mountain bike on those trails with impunity because nobody is hiking. 

Clifton, especially the Burnett Woods part of Clifton, is too urban for a natural wooded park.  It's already known for being dangerous because of poor visibility and lack of activity.  That's what people don't understand.  Parks suffer from a LACK of use and activity, not an excess of it.  Eyes on the street are just as important in parks as on sidewalks.  Urban woods aren't a natural oasis, they're a place that's scary to be in, where people have sex in bushes, and where you can't even walk your dog because they'll step on drug needles or eat discarded condoms.  I would argue that to "save the park" more buildings are needed, but not also surrounded by large parking lots either.  

I wonder if Uptown would be better off if we saved about a quarter of Burnett Woods for a great, urban, Washington Park-quality park, and developed the rest of it with dense development with amazing walkability and transit access. Cincinnati already has a very large forest within city limits—Mt. Airy Forest. What is the real need for us to preserve Burnett Woods in its current forested state?

4 hours ago, taestell said:

developed the rest of it with dense development with amazing walkability and transit access. 

Except we’re horrible at this and everyone would complain about the architecture anyway 

At one time the proposed development on Howell Avenue included space for the CCAC and I wonder if this is still a possibility. In my opinion this would connect the CCAC infinitely more to the Clifton community if it was part of their walkable neighborhood business district. The location would be abutting the well activated plaza on Ludlow Avenue. In contrast putting it in Burnett Woods pretty much guarantees everyone will arrive there by automobile instead of walking. This will in turn almost eliminate the possibility of new people discovering the center and what it has to offer by chance. 

 

There was a proprosal for a smaller camping education center to build a facility in Burnett Woods and I think I would be in favor of that instead. I would not be in favor of developing the woods themselves. I think natural settings like Burnett Woods (even just viewing them from the outside such as from Good Sam Hospital) contribute to human psychological health in ways we don’t understand and also the trees may be filtering the air pollution coming up from the Mill Creek valley for the hospital area.

Edited November 25, 20186 yr by thebillshark

It's Burnet, guys. One T!

 

I wasn't going to say anything but then I kept reading it. ?

On ‎11‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 1:49 AM, taestell said:

I wonder if Uptown would be better off if we saved about a quarter of Burnett Woods for a great, urban, Washington Park-quality park, and developed the rest of it with dense development with amazing walkability and transit access. Cincinnati already has a very large forest within city limits—Mt. Airy Forest. What is the real need for us to preserve Burnett Woods in its current forested state?

 

Yeah I have thought that the grass along MLK gets absolutely no use (other than the occasional flying trapeze) and there is no reason why the north side can't be developed in an attractive way. 

 

On ‎11‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 7:05 PM, jjakucyk said:

Clifton, especially the Burnett Woods part of Clifton, is too urban for a natural wooded park.  It's already known for being dangerous because of poor visibility and lack of activity.  That's what people don't understand.  Parks suffer from a LACK of use and activity, not an excess of it.  Eyes on the street are just as important in parks as on sidewalks.  Urban woods aren't a natural oasis, they're a place that's scary to be in, where people have sex in bushes, and where you can't even walk your dog because they'll step on drug needles or eat discarded condoms.  I would argue that to "save the park" more buildings are needed, but not also surrounded by large parking lots either.  

 

I periodically see cars going in and out of the park on the Clifton Ave. side in the middle of the night.  Why isn't there a gate?

 

 

 

 

Being that there was just a bunch of investment into making MLK even more pedestrian-hostile, I feel like the Ludlow Ave. side stands to benefit more from the activity generated by the CCAC development.

 

@jjakucyk refers the the park as "known for being dangerous," but while there's a perception of that, is there any actual data about it? I haven't heard of many incidents, other than people who seem more interested in making love over violence.

2 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

Yeah I have thought that the grass along MLK gets absolutely no use (other than the occasional flying trapeze) and there is no reason why the north side can't be developed in an attractive way. 

 

 

Right, even if you're not in favor of my suggestion of developing 75% of Burnett Woods, at the very least we should be developing the edges. Student housing built at the corner of Clifton Avenue & MLK would be literarily right across the street from DAAP. You could do the same thing on the north edge of the park, adding new development to the south side of Ludlow Avenue between Clifton and Brookline.

16 minutes ago, Robuu said:

 

@jjakucyk refers the the park as "known for being dangerous," but while there's a perception of that, is there any actual data about it? I haven't heard of many incidents, other than people who seem more interested in making love over violence. 

 

 

Perception is all it takes to scare people away.  It's a big reason why pedestrian malls have so much trouble in the US.  Our streets are simply too wide so there's not enough people to fill up the space and keep it activated.  That makes what may actually be decently busy feel creepy and foreboding.  Two or three strangers are scary, but two or three hundred is a party. 

The perception definitely exists. A few years ago DAAP students drew up a proposal to link UC's campus to Burnet Woods by "capping" MLK, and I saw UC students making comments like "oh great, connect campus to the crime and rape park".

I don't think the perception exists for (non-student) Clifton residents like it does for students. I also think the park gets a reasonable amount of use. Maybe not so much by students (aside from parking). It's a nice amenity for anyone who bothers think beyond vague urban legendy stuff. Having more university-oriented events there or pedestrianizing MLK (that ship has sailed for the next couple decades) would be the best ways to shake those perceptions.

 

Once an asset like that is subdivided and sold off, there's no getting it back. Y'all really wanna pave over and build on all those old-growth trees? It's doubtful much of the land is even that stable for development, considering ubiquitous landslide issues in the city.

I definitely don't think that the park should be made drastically smaller, or that large parts of it should be paved over and developed. Like park land, vacant and developable land is abundant in Cincinnati, and there is plenty of space left in Clifton to develop without paving over the park. I do support adding more amenities to the park, and creating more attractions that will bring life to Burnet Woods without destroying the general feel of the park. I think the CCAC is such an amenity, and I also think the proposed camping non-profit facility is too. 

 

I love Burnet Woods, and have taken many very pleasant walks there. The old trees are wonderful, and I appreciate how the park helps make Clifton feel like a little village- a world apart from the hustle and bustle of Clifton Heights and the hospitals. It just needs a little love, imo. Add in some complimentary uses, maybe add a restaurant toward the Ludlow side, make the park more permeable on all sides, install some gateways and new paths and it'd be much better. I don't think it needs to get totally blown up, and I don't think a highly urban park like Washington Park would be a model to follow for a large woodland park like Burnet. I would bet the neighborhood activists opposed to the CCAC going in the park are actually afraid of that very vision, and they see the CCAC as the first step in the inevitable decimation of the park. Such proposals are probably detrimental to achieving anything new or fresh in Burnet Woods, I think.

Clifton people who claim that they use the park all the time are full of it.  I'd bet that most haven't set foot in the park for 10+ years.  The park gets very, very little use.  The grassy hillsides facing UC get absolutely zero use.  Why aren't they just...woods? 

 

Has anyone ever seen anyone doing anything here?  The answer is no. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1354381,-84.5151567,3a,43.9y,291.72h,94.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swgZr4XswZvYFia3Zfbb3kg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Was that the kind of place that saw a lot of action during people's downtime in the '80s and '90s before the internet -- like the Statehouse lawn?

I have seen people sled ride there after a snowstorm but that of course is very infrequent.

8 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

Was that the kind of place that saw a lot of action during people's downtime in the '80s and '90s before the internet -- like the Statehouse lawn?

 

 

Yeah I vaguely recall seeing some people having a picnic on a sheet on that slope once. 

I'm pretty sure picnics overall are down about 90% since the '80s.

48 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

I'm pretty sure picnics overall are down about 90% since the '80s.

 

I ate a packed lunch at an I-80 rest stop picnic bench last August.  Had the whole picnic table grove to myself. 

16 hours ago, edale said:

I definitely don't think that the park should be made drastically smaller, or that large parts of it should be paved over and developed. Like park land, vacant and developable land is abundant in Cincinnati, and there is plenty of space left in Clifton to develop without paving over the park. I do support adding more amenities to the park, and creating more attractions that will bring life to Burnet Woods without destroying the general feel of the park. I think the CCAC is such an amenity, and I also think the proposed camping non-profit facility is too.  

 

I love Burnet Woods, and have taken many very pleasant walks there. The old trees are wonderful, and I appreciate how the park helps make Clifton feel like a little village- a world apart from the hustle and bustle of Clifton Heights and the hospitals. It just needs a little love, imo. Add in some complimentary uses, maybe add a restaurant toward the Ludlow side, make the park more permeable on all sides, install some gateways and new paths and it'd be much better. I don't think it needs to get totally blown up, and I don't think a highly urban park like Washington Park would be a model to follow for a large woodland park like Burnet. I would bet the neighborhood activists opposed to the CCAC going in the park are actually afraid of that very vision, and they see the CCAC as the first step in the inevitable decimation of the park. Such proposals are probably detrimental to achieving anything new or fresh in Burnet Woods, I think. 

Yes, I agree. Gateways and a few developments like the CCAC and a restaurant or something built at the fountain plaza would be great. Updating what's there while keeping overall, forested feel of the park is the way to go. I also agree about the neighborhood NIMBYs being irrationally opposed to positive upgrades.

 

Regarding that hillside @jmecklenborg posted, I think that is near one of the disc golf holes but I'm not 100% since it's been years since I used the course.

5 minutes ago, Robuu said:

Yes, I agree. Gateways and a few developments like the CCAC and a restaurant or something built at the fountain plaza would be great. Updating what's there while keeping overall, forested feel of the park is the way to go. I also agree about the neighborhood NIMBYs being irrationally opposed to positive upgrades.

 

Regarding that hillside @jmecklenborg posted, I think that is near one of the disc golf holes but I'm not 100% since it's been years since I used the course.

Yeah, I've played that disc golf course recently... and there are holes going down that hillside. The course is definitely not well maintained, with many signs missing... so it's a bit of a scavenger hunt just to figure out where each hole is. 

Would be nice if they'd update the course, and maybe hold some all-skill-levels tournaments advertised around campus.

To clarify, here's a map the disc golf course... I think @jmecklenborg might have been talking about a different hill (closer to intersection of MLK with Burnet Woods Dr). The disc golf course is entirely to the north/west of Brookline... and the 1st hole goes down a hill which I could also imagine people sledding down. 

People are always fishing at the lake in Burnet Woods. 

Owner of the Elephant Walk restaurant in Clifton has tentatively offered to buy Clifton Market:

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2018/11/27/clifton-market-faces-dire-financial-crisis/1975121002/

I disc golfed in the wrong order

Clifton Market $6 million in debt and losing $30k per month:

https://www.wcpo.com/money/local-business-news/clifton-market-facing-a-bleak-future-as-shareholders-vote-on-options

Clifton Market shareholders vote to sell the co-op to Gurmukh Singh:

https://www.wcpo.com/money/local-business-news/clifton-market-shareholders-vote-for-sale-of-neighborhood-co-op

 

Looks like Mr. Singh smells a deal here...my napkin math sez he's getting a fully modern neighborhood grocery store for at least $2 million less than what Clifton Market paid to buy and renovate the building. 

Clifton Market basically started with a shell. That was one of the things that messed up their finances from the beginning. Missing out on subsidies routinely given to their competition was another factor in that.

 

As long as the neighborhood retains a grocery store, I would imagine the co-op owners will be happy. That's why they voted in such large numbers to make a deal with Singh.

So this naively unvetted pair of loans will be a windfall for Mr. Singh + the neighborhood gets the neighborhood grocery back that it wanted from the beginning. 

 

As dumb as some of the people I've encountered in home lending are, I bet there are some even dumber people out there in the world of lending to non-profits. 

 

 

I'm wondering how the owner of a small Indian restaurant has $1.8 million to buy a grocery store. Rather than having one large grocery fill the space, it could be cool if Jagdeeps Indian grocer moved in and took some of the space. That type of arrangement could potentially help with the financials of the store, too, as you'd have a revenue stream separate from just the grocery sales.

 

According to another article, he has been here since 1990.  If he moved here with some money, then he's had plenty of time to invest in U.S. stocks and real estate.