I understand the residents concerns, simply because there are virtually no good examples of new construction blending into an older city neighborhood.  That said, they are preserving the neighborhood to death.

 

1.  An eight story mixed-use building will not triple the traffic. 

2.  The criteria of "visibility from Ludlow with easy pedestrian access" doesn't sound promising.  The library is getting a hell of a deal here, how about a compromise:

 

First Floor:  Larger retail/restaurant space.  This is what the neighborhood lacks.  Almost all commercial space is about the same size.  Introduce some larger square footage, get a new type of tenant to add to the mix.

 

Second Floor:  Library.  In exchange for an increase in space with no added rent, take the second floor.  Increase visability with signage and windows overlooking the street.  Stairs do not equal "difficulty for pedestrians," and those with disabilities will be taken care of automatically with ADA guidelines.

 

Upper floors:  Offices and then condos.  Set these stories back as far as necessary.  What happens in the middle of the block doesn't matter as long as the facade that is in line with the rest of Ludlow fits in well.

 

 

or something like that...

 

 

Brand says. He cites the recent closing of New World Bookstore and Za, the former Uno's Restaurant & Bar site.

 

 

2 things wrong with this at first glance,

Za's is not closed.

And its allways good to see objective journalism from the developer /sarcasm/

 

I'm not sure were i fall in how i feel about this I'm sure that the condos are going to help not hurt my property value,

I just don't like the ideal of an 8 story building even if just from howell side, and I'm not sure this is the best point in economic cycles with rising interest rates, and a possible recession coming to be building 38-40 condos that wont be done for 2 years. If it was a smaller building (like the one in Hyde park sq)with a more reasonable number of condos 10-15, I'm sure i would be all for it.  also if they can pre-sell 80% of the condos that would ease some fears of mine.

 

For the prices they're talking about in the $250K to $1.0M range - they must be targeting the landed clifton folks who are looking to downsize from SF homes but remain in the area.  There are not many options other than Rue de la Paix condos otherwise it's some sort of retirement living arrangement.

I agree, but then what they are building is going to be a glorified retirement home.

This was forwarded to me via email.  I don't have time to comment on it now, but I wish I could attend this meeting.  This type of sensationalist nimbyism has the potential to suffocate the neighborhood.

 

 

From: [email protected]

Date: May 25, 2006 2:26:23 PM EDT

Subject: plaza

 

Well-lit and inviting publicly-owned plazas anchor business centers in Hyde Park, Oakley, Mt. Lookout and downtown. A well-groomed square pulls people to central Mariemont and thousands of other centers throughout the world. Such gathering places have fostered business enterprise and a sense of community for centuries.

 

Cliftons square is to be located directly across from the Ludlow/Telford intersection in the space currently occupied by the Bender/Clifton Civic Center building. Eventually Cliftons square will extend over a new merchant parking garage to the south to join a new Clifton library built on top of the garage. The square is the heart of Cliftons urban development plan approved by City Council decades ago. Cliftonites have dreamed of building this central plaza since.

 

Today everything is in place: Cliftons Merchant Lot and land for construction of Cliftons central plaza are publicly owned. A positive recommendation from the Ludlow Revitalization Committee and construction funding are available as well.

 

But, Clifton is at a crossroad. A developer wants control of the Merchant Lot and the new Clifton Plaza. He wants to build a massive tower and develop this premium space for personal profit. 

 

If the developer proceeds, he will destroy all area zoning codes, exacerbate serious traffic flow problems in the area and negatively impact family-focused living conditions on Howell, Ormond, Terrace and Whitfield. 

 

The developers concept is so large that no parking will remain for the current Clifton merchants if the project is successful. His concept ignores all vital marketing conclusions in Cliftons more than 200 page plan, a plan painstakingly developed with assistance from many professional volunteers, lovers of Clifton and the City.

 

Attend the June 5th CTM meeting and express support for Cliftons long-sought open public plaza. Insist that the City be allowed to build our plaza and that it remain a publicly-owned open space. We need it. Demand that the Merchant Lot remain under public control for current and future merchant use. Your personal and vocal support are needed. 

 

The developer has invested well and is strongly connected with politicians and planning authorities. This gives him power to ignore zoning codes, neighbors and the Clifton community. As an example, his development plans for the Anderson Baiter and Sahnd Funeral Home site do not meet zoning requirements or comply with Cliftons long range plan. The City allowed him to ignore zoning code because he claimed compliance would not grant sufficient profits for himself. Clifton United Methodist Church, his closest neighbor at this site, was forced to take legal action.

 

Mark your calendar and attend the June 5th CTM meeting. Clifton is worth your efforts. We must seize the opportunity for Cliftons smart growth right now as this opportunity will never occur again. If you cannot attend, please send email to [email protected]. Tell CTM to let the City build our Ludlow Plaza with current secured funding right now. Please send this email to your friends and ask them to attend the meeting and send supportive messages. Demand help from City Council too.

 

Its your community, your property value and your choice. 

 

Michael Ramundo

[email protected]

128 Lafayette Lane

Cincinnati, OH 45220

513-221-5807

 

 

I disagree with almost every sentence of Mr. Ramundo's letter.  But for now, can anyone verify this:

 

construction funding are available (to build the public square).

Frankly, I am tired of people worried about too much traffic in the city.  Density equals traffic, and density will build demand for better public transit.  If you don't like density, move to the country.

 

Within blocks of this proposed building, you have tall hospitals, not to mention UC servicing tens of thousands of cars per day.  I would love to have this kind of activity in my neighborhood. 

 

Just what Ludlow needs, an empty (but well lit, mind you) plaza for skateboarders to hang out on.

 

The Clifton Community made a great move foward in the 1980's when they fought Wendy's and got the theater re-started.  And the fountain and plaza they have recently built in Burnet Woods is fine.  But the group is stuck in the past and opposed to any new development.  I cannot think of a better location in the city for 38 condos (except in Over-the-Rhine).

What "200 page plan" is being referred to above?  I'd like to see the "marketing conclusions" and if they've ever been realized.

Does anyone know where this project stands? Has it ever moved to Planning Commission? Did Clifton Town Meeting take an official stance at a meeting?

From my understanding the developer of this project is torn between a couple of projects in the Clifton area.  When one of his projects seems more promising (which = less bitching from residents) he moves towards that particular project.  The dilemma that I have heard is that both of his projects are facing hurdles from residents, while Planning Commission seems to be on board.

 

The current state of this project is most likely a go with the developer...but the residents are strong in this part of town and he is fighting for every project he pushes forward.  We'll see what happens...it just takes time  :roll:

Clifton works on a plan

Aim: To draw more people in

BY JANE PRENDERGAST | [email protected]

 

PHOTO: Ludlow Wine And Gifts owner David Kieft is a proponent of the Main Street project on Ludlow Avenue in Clifton. "It looks a little tired sometimes," he says. "We just know we can't stay idle."

THE ENQUIRER/CARRIE COCHRAN

 

PHOTO: Community activists Mary Schubauer-Berigan, Bill Gordon and Jon Cramer gather at the Clifton Florist shop at Clifton and Ludlow avenues.

THE ENQUIRER/GREG LORING

 

CLIFTON - Ludlow Avenue is one of the most diverse neighborhood business districts in Cincinnati, but supporters face a struggle: how to keep the funky without letting the strip turn ragged.

 

Some restaurants - pizza chain Uno's and its successor, Za - closed, and Sitwell's coffee house might have to move this year. But there's good news, too - the city's about to start a $1.8 million project to add gaslights and replace sidewalks, and some sidewalks will be widened so restaurants can add outdoor seating.

 

Click on link for article.

Gaslight businesses aren't diversified?! L-O-f$%^ing-L. Its one of the few neighborhood business districts in Cincinnnati known for having everything you need in walking distance. Whats wrong with having three Indian restaurants? They're all fairly low volume, especially Apna and there's certainly many other ethnicly diverse options on that street. Hell, they have a public library, post office, grocery store, and banks all within a very short walk of each other. I don't see how it could get much progressive. If something isn't broke you don't need to fix it.

I love Ludlow and personally I am very excited that people recognize the need to periodically review and improve things.  Ideally everything would happen organically, but this sounds like a good idea to me and will help to maintain Clifton as a strong neighborhood in the future.

I attended the meeting tonight (along with David) and I thought it went quite well.  There was a good turnout of around 75-80 people or so, and many people were ready and willing to contribute their ideas towards the process.  I can't wait for the follow up meeting to further discuss ideas in more detail.  I will be specifically working with the 'Design' component of the plan/project.  Very excited!

^What were some of the ideas floated?

Some of the ideas we discussed (at least for the design committee Rando and I joined) are streetscape improvements, including widening the sidewalks (people feel cramped with all of the newspaper boxes, trashcans and other elements).

 

We discussed the ideal height of buildings for Ludlow--a relatively narrow street, and how lighting up the buildings and improving facades would give a much more realistic perception of Ludlow's vitality (Arlins and The Esquire were cited as excellent examples of this).

 

The parking issue came up, the concern being that people want to go to Ludlow but complain about there not being anywhere to park and people agreed there are places to park but that not everyone is aware of where these places are so perhaps signage should be put up.

 

The issue of making Ludlow ave. a local historic district came up. People discussed the pros and cons of that decision. One argument was its restrictiveness and how it scares away some investors due to higher costs. There was some disagreeing so its hard to say what will come of that.

 

In any case, the future of Ludlow is looking very bright! Lots of community involvement :]

 

 

 

 

Clifton Plaza Moving Forward

BY RANDY A. SIMES | URBANCINCY

November 13, 2007

 

CLIFTON - The Bender Optical site on Ludlow Avenue, which is jointly owned by Clifton Town Meeting (CTM) and the Clifton Business and Professional Association, is moving forward with the city's recent approval for the demolition of the Bender Optical building.

 

The city has stated that the building will be coming down this Thursay (11/15)...thus clearing the way for the plaza to move forward. Following the demolition one more round of soil testing will be done, and then the site will be ready for the start of the plaza.

 

As for some background...the Clifton Plaza is part of the larger Ludlow Avenue revitalization project which will eventually include new sidewalks/curbs, added trees (where needed), improved streetlights, coordinated street furniture and the reduction of some overhead wires.

 

Proposed improvements for Telford Avenue:

 

Proposed improvements for the Merchant's Lot Plaza:

 

For more information check out the following:

Ludlow Avenue Revitalization Project Presentation

Clifton Town Meeting (CTM)

i dont think i like the plaza thing where bender is now.  We need a structure there for sure.  i like the telford ave. project though.  go my neighborhood! :)

Those lights look like the Ohio side of the PP Bridge! :x

The rendering of the plaza was purely conceptual. A final design has not been created.

 

The goal of the plaza is to provide a better entrance way from the merchant lot south of Ludlow into the district, replacing the rather foreboding alley that now exists. Additionally, it will be a new community gathering place, which, along with the improvements to Telford and the relocated crosswalk, will create a new axis for the street.

 

What sort of things would you like to see in that space?

 

 

 

i dont think i like the plaza thing where bender is now.  We need a structure there for sure.  i like the telford ave. project though.  go my neighborhood! :)

 

I understand the aversion to tearing down a building; it's an inclination I share generally. But because it was a dry cleaners there are some environmental issues that make tenanting that building or even new construction problematic. My limited understanding of the contamination is that it is not unlike radon in that keeping it enclosed in a building causes the problem, whereas an uncapped plaza will allow it to dissipate and become less of a problem.

 

The follow-up testing will point the best course.

does anyone have a pic of the existing building?

 

The building on the right was the former dry cleaner.

red-x-tastic.

Really? I'm seeing it, but maybe the auditors site is not allowing links.

 

If you care to look it up, the address is 333 Ludlow Ave.

 

www.hamiltoncountyauditor.org

Here it is:

Can't say I'm shedding a tear on this one. The last owner of the dry cleaning place was a little off her rocker and Bender only carried frames manufactured in the 1980s or so it seemed. More places for people to eat ice cream (can we make the space in front of Graeter's stop stinking) and homeless guys, hippies, and high school kids to hang out.

I'll shed a tear for it.  Not because it's a significant building, but because it provides continuity and will be replaced with unneeded open space.  Tear it down, build a 3-4 story mixed use building, great.  Tear it down, create yet another gap in one of the few relatively cohesive strips of retail in the city, I must dissent. 

 

The inspiration for these spaces comes from cities like NYC, Chicago, and SF, where an open space of any form is a breath of fresh air (both figuratively and literally) from blocks upon blocks of continuous urbanism.  Somehow, the idea has been brought to even the smallest of business districts here, often as "gathering space."  How often do people gather in Northside's "open space" for example?  Hell, the Ludlow commercial district is about 4 short blocks long with a huge park at one end and heavily-wooded and grassy residential at the other.

 

 

What attracts people is other people.  What attracts the initial people are a)shops/restaurants/workplaces and b)places for them to live.  Why not create both and bring more people in both ways, while at the same time adding to the tax base rather than being a tax burden simply for the allegedly essential concept of "open space"? 

 

I'm sure the people of the community approve of the plan, and ultimately, that's what matters.  I would hope it gets used more than the spacious area at the corner of Burnet Woods at Clifton and Ludlow.  Btw, has anyone ever gathered there?  Granted, I'm not over that way all that often, but I haven't seen many people gather there.  I have noticed a lack of larger commercial space in the area though.

^skateboarders gather there a lot, but not much else.

People do hang around a bit before/after shows at the Esquire...and Graeters also surprisingly attracts numbers of people who just like to mingle.  Oh and then of course you have Sitwells (knock on wood) which always has people lingering about...I would assume that some would meander across the street a bit if there was more room to hang out and/or sit.

if the area gets wi-fi, id go there to hang out, or does it already..I havent tried.  But there seems to be little reason to go there to hang, esp. with the burnet woods thing there.  IMO, there needs to be a structure there.  Give something thats unique.  Theyre trying to emulate Hyde Park and Oakley, etc by having green space.  Why not keep it unique instead of copying what others have done. 

I concur with atlas and CiNYC.  A new building would serve the street better than a plaza.  Perhaps the parking path could be widened, and the new building could have storefronts facing the walkway.

Not sure I agree.  There is a lack of space on Ludlow to hangout and congregate.  One of the things that makes Hyde Park Square so successful is that there is a vast public space.  Right now there are just narrow sidewalks with a few benches on Ludlow.  This plaza gets rid of a butt-ugly building and invites people onto the street.  Unless there is a developer and tenent out there clamoring to build on Ludlow this plaza is the best option.

Cramer stated that there is reason for the empty space that has to do with the environmental degradation from its years as a dry cleaner. People hang out at the edge of Burnet Woods all the time. Walk by on a summer evening around 11 or 12 and it will be full with people chatting and eating ice cream (UDF). A great public space.

^If that's the case, then I stand corrected and I'm glad to hear it's being used to its potential.  Yet, if that's the case, then why draw people away from such a great public space with yet another 2 blocks away?

 

Unless there is a developer and tenent out there clamoring to build on Ludlow this plaza is the best option.

Cramer stated that there is reason for the empty space that has to do with the environmental degradation from its years as a dry cleaner.

 

There are developers climbing over each other to redevelop sites far more contaminated and far less desirable than this one.  If this lot were put on the market, you'd be amazed at the interest.  This is prime real estate.  The proposal for open space is driven by what some people feel they need (a quasi-suburban mentality of open space requirements), not by the market, which would ultimately lead to the type of urban environment that many in the area mistakenly believe they already have.

Cramer stated that there is reason for the empty space that has to do with the environmental degradation from its years as a dry cleaner. People hang out at the edge of Burnet Woods all the time. Walk by on a summer evening around 11 or 12 and it will be full with people chatting and eating ice cream (UDF). A great public space.

 

I have walked by there every day since mid-spetember.  There has been plenty of nice days since then and I have never seen that area packed, etc with people eating ice cream, etc.  It seems to me to be more of a skateboarder hang out.  I live 2 blocks from this proposed new plaza and will probably never use it.  Lets turn the habaneros or servattis suface lots into public spaces.....seems better.  Wish it was that easy. 

One of the things that makes Hyde Park Square so successful is that there is a vast public space. 

 

What, a little square for people to eat their Graeters ice cream? HP Sq. has wider sidewalks but I don't think there's any less people hanging out on Ludlow..

I didn't think the area changed that much since I moved away three months ago. Please just go back a couple pages and read Cramer's explanation on the environmental aspect. I agree Ludlow needs more but honestly I'm more interested in the Jack Brand style of more than the filling in this gap style of more.

Gaslight group seeks input

January 1, 2008 | CINCINNATI ENQUIRER

 

CLIFTON -- If you've spent some time along Ludlow Avenue in Clifton, activists would like to know what you think about the business strip.

 

Results of the anonymous survey will be used to help identify new types of businesses people suggest might do well.

 

Click on link above for article.

 

Find the survey at www.ludlowavenue.com/survey.

well the bender optical building has officially been razed.  I dont know how long this has been gone but I just noticed it today.

well the bender optical building has officially been razed.  I dont know how long this has been gone but I just noticed it today.

 

...just within the last week. I was down there this time last week and they had the fencing up and some of the machinery there, but the building was still up.

 

so this is for sure going to be a plaza? or is it still open for discussion?

 

I agree that a plaza is a complete waste of space. I'd really like to see storefronts with condos on top. This area needs all the upscale housing and retail it can get!!!

yea life needs to be infused into the area.  there is basically 0 vacancy in the district so they shouldnt really have a problem attracting tenants.  th eonly way id go to hang out at the proposed plaza is if they have wifi, and maybe while eating ice cream...

I agree that a plaza is a complete waste of space. I'd really like to see storefronts with condos on top. This area needs all the upscale housing and retail it can get!!!

 

I'll be honest...you might be the first person I've heard suggest that Clifton doesn't have enough upscale housing.

Buildings on Ludlow are down.  Went to UC basketball game and noticed the laundry, etc. were gone.

 

Sorry just noticed someone already posted.

I agree that a plaza is a complete waste of space. I'd really like to see storefronts with condos on top. This area needs all the upscale housing and retail it can get!!!

 

I'll be honest...you might be the first person I've heard suggest that Clifton doesn't have enough upscale housing.

 

please expand on that...I'm kind of confused as to where you are coming from....

I agree that a plaza is a complete waste of space. I'd really like to see storefronts with condos on top. This area needs all the upscale housing and retail it can get!!!

 

I'll be honest...you might be the first person I've heard suggest that Clifton doesn't have enough upscale housing.

 

Clifton (in and around Ludlow) doesn't have any "new" housing to speak of - there are plenty of apartments suitable for students and fledgling families.  Some "new" upscale units (in the form of mixed use of course) would be a plus on Ludlow.  There are some apartments that were renovated into new "upscale" condos along Ludlow called Parkside - but I think that's about it.

The problem is there is nothing in the 125-250k range. aside from the parkside condos.  You have these great old houses for 400k, or apartments. 

You have these great old houses for 400k...

 

This is what I was referring to...the abundance of these expensive old houses.

I love the Gaslight District for what it is. I'd much prefer seeing some of those old apt buildings turn into condos than to see new construction catering to people looking for the 125-250k range. I think people would be disappointed in how the building turned out. People are already throwing a fit over what's happening to nearby Corryville.

well all I know is something needs to be done to infuse life into this area.  it often feels dead.  Maybe its because its winter, etc. and I havent lived here that long.  Still though, some quality retail, shopping options would be nice. 

Well we moved away. All the life went out. Ludlow does need some new energy.