From what I've seen and heard around here, I'd say pope fits the bill. Overlooking the wiener, of course.

 

maybe i should just date myself then....

 

Sure, but what happens when things get weird and you need your space?

Definitely neither a bodybuilder nor gay - I just got into running in high school, lifting in college, and boxing/more serious lifting in law school, so now I do a combination of all three. 

I think dating's just tough all over in Cleveland, gay, straight, man and woman. I think that one of the primary reasons is that there seems to be more of a "coupled" atmosphere here than you might find in other cities. I think Cleveland is very relationship-oriented and family-oriented. Everyone you know seems to be throwing on rings at 25, 27, 28. Not only are 20-something friends all getting married, having multiple babies, etc., but in a city with a very  low population turnover, a lot of 20-somethings are probably also dealing with parents nagging about when they'll get to have grandchildren. In that kind of environment, the dating scene is of much greater pressure. I can't speak for straight men in this situation, but I do know that for many gay men and women (either gay or straight), it's not enough to go out and have a fun time with someone ... at some point, even in the first date, one starts to wonder "Could I see myself spending a considerable portion of my life with this person?" If the answer is no, then seeyalatergottago. And when you go on 20 dates and there's not a single person in the group that meet the criteria on your checklist, you get discouraged and sometimes cranky or stand-offish. I find this is particularly true as people approach those two scary years to be single ... 30 and 35.

 

Is this a smart way to approach dating? No. But it's an understandable result of living in a community where it seems that everyone is coupled. I know several lovely young women who are dying (literally anxious to the point of tears) to find Mr. Right ... but recognize that they're in a high-pressure situation and don't want to let any losers into their lives, eating up precious time on the clock before they turn 30 or 35. Just know that the situation's everywhere ... women bitch about not finding quality men. And I and most of my gay single friends spend a full 20% of my life talking about how few quality guys there are out there. We all know where the Mr. Wrongs are, though ... because there's thousands of them.

 

As Sex and the City's Samantha reminds us, in this town, you can't swing a Fendi bag without knocking over five losers.

"And when you go on 20 dates and there's not a single person in the group that meet the criteria on your checklist"

 

While I would never suggest someone completely pitch their standards, I've heard some checklists that are absolutely absurd. Not locally but I know someone who is HIV+ and is militantly unwilling to dating guys who aren't "thuggish" (their word, not mine) black guys - they live in a southern city with a population under 100K. Gee, wonder why they're single. I also know someone who was getting to know someone, found them attractive but called it off because the other person's hair reminded them of their dad - not the style, the coloring. So when I hear "there's no one around to date" - sure, there's sensible filtering and I'm the first to advocate sticking to your guns - but then there's "okay, you mayyy want to unclench the unattainable standards a smidge."

 

And I'll say this much about the gay community in Cleveland - if you think you might be interested in someone but are hesitant because you've heard whatever rumor - go to the source before you completely write someone off. There are some absolutely evil b!tches (for once I don't mean that as a compliment) in this city who thrive on making sure no one else is dating and/or happy as long as they aren't. It sounds silly, but if I had a dime for every "ohh, I thought they were cute but their ex said that..." - know what I mean?

 

Mind you I totally agree about the dating dynamic in Cleveland - it's difficult, but conversely, I just got off the phone with some friends in NYC who bemoan the fact that everything is so transient there. Sure, they might meet a great guy but they and that great guy know that they can just head right back out since there will be someone/something new going on. As they said, it sounds fun at first but after awhile having all those options can be more of a hindrance to dating than a help. I guess it's a tradeoff no matter where you are.

while happily in a  marriage,  I have observed that people in Cleveland are very relationship obsessed. If I were single, and presumably wanted to be , it would drive me nuts. And while I do not claim to be a prize myself, from a womens standpoint the pickins' look generally slim.  Guys overly obsessed with sports, talking about where they went to highschool (seriously) , sizing up your breeder hips. eeh boring.  And sure you go to the big city and see all kinds of good looking people, but I am told they are as lonely as the saps in Cleveland. They just have better shoes, hair and eyewear. 

  And sure you go to the big city and see all kinds of good looking people, but I am told they are as lonely as the saps in Cleveland. They just have better shoes, hair and eyewear. 

 

I disagree, one thing I noticed over the weekend in chicago was the overwhelming volume of "normal" people. In bar after bar, people were just seemingly at the bar, not trying to impress anyone.

Oh I didn't mean Chicago when I said *"big city".

 

 

*some restricitons may apply. 

Oh I didn't mean Chicago when I said *"big city".

 

 

*some restricitons may apply. 

 

didn't know if you meant "the" big city, or "the" big city

I sort of had any big city in mind...with restrictions

I sort of had any big city in mind...with restrictions

 

10 million people are suddenly angered right now, and they don't know why.

 

(okay, lets get back on subject-ish)

I couldn't agree more with this whole thread.  The situation is made even worse when one didn't grow up in Cleveland.  Trust me on that one.

 

I've been here for two years and can probably count the friends that I have here on two hands.  This is partly my fault (working too much, visiting friends out of town whenever I can), but some of it is just due to the nature of Cleveland.  Spending two summers in Chicago, where I found most people to be very warm and friendly,  didn't help my expectations in the least, either.  By and large, people in Cleveland are not friendly (just taking the daily elevator ride in Key Tower as an example).  My friends (whom either grew up with me away from here or went to college out of state with me) have had the same experiences.  I won't even begin to get into the "bar scene."  I also echo the sentiment about the organizations and activities around here being very parochial and "clinque-y."

 

What I've noticed most, though, is that nearly everyone is either married or in some relationship, regardless of orientation.  It's as though people here are afraid to be alone in life for any short period of time.  At some point, this "coupling" effect will have a very real negative economic consequence for us.  In my opinion, this mentality certainly doesn't help in attracting young, college grads from elsewhere to live and work in our community.  As an example, a guy who summered with our firm the past two years just chose to go to a Columbus firm because, as he told me this past weekend, "there are always twenty to thirty people I can call up to go out with at any given time.  That wasn't the case in Cleveland."  I can't say I blame him, and it'll likely be the reason that I move on from here (despite my family living 80 miles away).  After being single here for most of those two years (give or take some random dates), I recently started dating a girl from near my hometown.  Coming to Cleveland, I wouldn't have guessed that at all. 

 

Instead of working on cheesy marketing names that miss the mark, our civic organizations should work on improving the social network for singles in this area.  Maybe that'll help lure talent, or at least help us to keep what we do have.

"Our civic organizations should work on improving the social network for singles in this area."

 

Devil's advocate time - how many of you are members of groups like Cleveland 20/30?

As for 20/30, I haven't renewed my recently-expired membership yet.  I didn't make any of the events last year (again, work times are a conflict), so it hasn't been a priority.  Is it worthwhile?

  And sure you go to the big city and see all kinds of good looking people, but I am told they are as lonely as the saps in Cleveland. They just have better shoes, hair and eyewear. 

 

I disagree, one thing I noticed over the weekend in chicago was the overwhelming volume of "normal" people. In bar after bar, people were just seemingly at the bar, not trying to impress anyone.

 

Pope and Chicago sitting in a tree, R-E-L-O-C-A-T-I-N-G...

As for 20/30, I haven't renewed my recently-expired membership yet.  I didn't make any of the events last year (again, work times are a conflict), so it hasn't been a priority.  Is it worthwhile?

 

I've been to 20/30 events. Not my cup of tea. Groups like that appeal to a very specific type of person. Nothing against it.

I've never been (people in my field aren't in the typical "professional networking" mold), I was just asking since they're one of the more well-known groups.

 

 

 

 

I agree with MayDay's first post whole-heartedly -- bigger cities may offer higher numbers of dates, but quality is another matter. I lived in New York for 7 years and it was difficult to maintain a relationship there because people (myself included) tended to keep looking over their shoulders for someone better. It leads to a lot of anxiety. If novelty and a lot of hook-ups are what you're looking for, big cities are great. Otherwise, they can be unsatisfying.

 

If I had to generalize, I'd say there are proportionately way more dateable gay men in Cleveland than in New York. That is, gay men here actually have the time and desire to commit to a relationship. They tend to have family around, which can have a grounding effect. It may be tough finding one, but once you do it can be pretty wonderful. (And yes, I am speaking as someone who has found someone, so I'm probably biased. ;) )

 

I know this started as a straight thread, but I couldn't help adding my piece!

I didn't want to get into this thread, but I feel like I should say my thoughts, even though I may take a beating for it (and not one of the good kinds):

 

In my experience Cleveland offers you what you want - I've had relationships & I've had casual dating, and I don't feel they are that hard to find if you take a little initiative, be willing to go out on a limb, and also remember who you are.  There are certain expectations we all should have for ourselves, but I personally know that if (insert hot celebrity here) was next to me in a bar, I wouldn't be able to get her/him.  Do I find myself unattractive?  Not by any stretch of the imagination, but I also know the types I'm looking for.

 

Granted, a good chunk of my time was in college (easy breeding ground), but since I've been out it's been no problem - actually at one point I felt that the girls I was with were only about casually dating and nothing more....

 

I rambled, I know.

^liar, there's no girls at CWRU.

Perhaps not at CWRU, but some of us did very well at Case  :wink:

 

Juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust kidding (about the branding - not about the dating scene).  Seriously, I had no problems....

What I've noticed most, though, is that nearly everyone is either married or in some relationship, regardless of orientation.  It's as though people here are afraid to be alone in life for any short period of time.  At some point, this "coupling" effect will have a very real negative economic consequence for us.  In my opinion, this mentality certainly doesn't help in attracting young, college grads from elsewhere to live and work in our community.

 

It hasn't helped that TV and movies since 1990 or so have demonized being single. Single characters are treated like sick dogs instead of independent, fun-loving and empowered individuals.

lol @ "sizing up your breeder hips"

 

I would humbly suggest match.com (it's not as bad as you might think) or meetup.com to find some social groups of interest.

Usually I don't meddle on Cleveland topics, but I'm chiming in like it or not.

 

 

>How do you meet interesting women? Do interesting things. How do you meet attractive women? Be rich. How do you meet

interesting, attractive women? Be lucky (and attractive).

 

Please, it depends exactly what you're talking about.  Yeah, the girls come out for indie music and art events but these women are typically bad news and the art and music usually stink.  I'll take a radiology tech or dental assistant any day before girls sporting the grandma vintage clothes look.  The art and music scenes always have an "inner circle" and it's always unclear what the history is.  But the dating pool is alway a very small one.  There's usually 1 or 2 standout girls but they're psychotic or their brother is in your band or something.     

 

 

>As others have pointed out, so much of it is a numbers and (population) density game. But I think another key metric is the happy factor: moreso than Cleveland, Chicago is a desireable desination for a lot of young people, and therefore, Chicago has more people happy to be there (and I've observed that happy people get naked a lot quicker than the other kind).

 

The central problem with big cities is that people are always leaving.  Sure, they're always just moving in, but they're leaving for grad school, leaving for a job, etc.  You go out there and make an effort to make some friends, you make them, and they leave 4 months later to Texas or Atlanta or to go teach English in Korea.  This goes for drinking buddies as well as the ladies.  That said you need to be out there all the time trying to meet friends.  It's hilarious how people move somewhere, meet 7 people, don't like them, then denounce the whole town. 

 

Nothing tops bartending as the #1 job for meeting women.  I don't think being in a band comes anywhere close unless the other guys in the band have sisters or girlfriends with a bunch of friends they bring out to the shows and that's definitely not always the case.  What is always the case is that there will be 1 or 2 chubby girls who come out to EVERY show. 

 

Now I'm just throwing this out there - quite a few of the people who are complaining have never shown up for an urbanohio.com meet/event.  :drunk:

 

No, you may not find a potential date, but you'll meet some d@mned nice people who 1. you have something in common with (the forum AND in most cases, beer), 2. could possibly know someone who might be dating potential. You never know.

if you think cleveland's bad, try living in toledo.

 

i exclusively meet people on myspace lately.

Now I'm just throwing this out there - quite a few of the people who are complaining have never shown up for an urbanohio.com meet/event.  :drunk:

 

No, you may not find a potential date, but you'll meet some d@mned nice people who 1. you have something in common with (the forum AND in most cases, beer), 2. could possibly know someone who might be dating potential. You never know.

 

Musky still hasn't returned my calls or texts after that magical night......

I think dating's just tough all over in Cleveland, gay, straight, man and woman. I think that one of the primary reasons is that there seems to be more of a "coupled" atmosphere here than you might find in other cities. I think Cleveland is very relationship-oriented and family-oriented. Everyone you know seems to be throwing on rings at 25, 27, 28. Not only are 20-something friends all getting married, having multiple babies, etc., but in a city with a very  low population turnover, a lot of 20-somethings are probably also dealing with parents nagging about when they'll get to have grandchildren. In that kind of environment, the dating scene is of much greater pressure. I can't speak for straight men in this situation, but I do know that for many gay men and women (either gay or straight), it's not enough to go out and have a fun time with someone ... at some point, even in the first date, one starts to wonder "Could I see myself spending a considerable portion of my life with this person?" If the answer is no, then seeyalatergottago. And when you go on 20 dates and there's not a single person in the group that meet the criteria on your checklist, you get discouraged and sometimes cranky or stand-offish. I find this is particularly true as people approach those two scary years to be single ... 30 and 35.

 

Is this a smart way to approach dating? No. But it's an understandable result of living in a community where it seems that everyone is coupled. I know several lovely young women who are dying (literally anxious to the point of tears) to find Mr. Right ... but recognize that they're in a high-pressure situation and don't want to let any losers into their lives, eating up precious time on the clock before they turn 30 or 35. Just know that the situation's everywhere ... women bitch about not finding quality men. And I and most of my gay single friends spend a full 20% of my life talking about how few quality guys there are out there. We all know where the Mr. Wrongs are, though ... because there's thousands of them.

 

As Sex and the City's Samantha reminds us, in this town, you can't swing a Fendi bag without knocking over five losers.

 

Papa Smurf, have I told you, I love your posts?

 

 

 

I totally agree that the midwest is more "relationship oriented" than the other parts of the country, however, I love that!  You hit a mark, my female cousin's are just those types of girls, graduate high school, off to college for a degree, work, then meet a man, get married, quit working and stay home to raise kids.  One of my cousins isn't married and my grand mother just keeps asking her, "what's wrong with you?" or saying things like, "that's ok, you can just stay home and take care of xx person, since you don't have a husband to care for"?

 

"And when you go on 20 dates and there's not a single person in the group that meet the criteria on your checklist"

 

While I would never suggest someone completely pitch their standards, I've heard some checklists that are absolutely absurd. Not locally but I know someone who is HIV+ and is militantly unwilling to dating guys who aren't "thuggish" (their word, not mine) black guys - they live in a southern city with a population under 100K. Gee, wonder why they're single. I also know someone who was getting to know someone, found them attractive but called it off because the other person's hair reminded them of their dad - not the style, the coloring. So when I hear "there's no one around to date" - sure, there's sensible filtering and I'm the first to advocate sticking to your guns - but then there's "okay, you mayyy want to unclench the unattainable standards a smidge."

 

And I'll say this much about the gay community in Cleveland - if you think you might be interested in someone but are hesitant because you've heard whatever rumor - go to the source before you completely write someone off. There are some absolutely evil b!tches (for once I don't mean that as a compliment) in this city who thrive on making sure no one else is dating and/or happy as long as they aren't. It sounds silly, but if I had a dime for every "ohh, I thought they were cute but their ex said that..." - know what I mean?

 

Mind you I totally agree about the dating dynamic in Cleveland - it's difficult, but conversely, I just got off the phone with some friends in NYC who bemoan the fact that everything is so transient there. Sure, they might meet a great guy but they and that great guy know that they can just head right back out since there will be someone/something new going on. As they said, it sounds fun at first but after awhile having all those options can be more of a hindrance to dating than a help. I guess it's a tradeoff no matter where you are.

 

We'll everyone has preferences.  I don't hairy men nor men taller than me or most PR men!

 

In regard to what you stated, the gay community is the same in New York, Miami or LA.  Some people are not fully comfortable in their skin they don't know how to be themself.  There are many instances where I feel like men on the East Coast don't know how to "date".  The first time I went out...well I was "asked" out on a date, I learned that meant, "let me come over to your house so we can "chill"".  That's not a date, thats an extended booty call, and I don't play that.

 

In NYC, you could meet someone today and never see them again.  This year alone I've been stood up three times.  I know so many men in NYC that are in "long distance relationships".  There is just so many men available, you don't need to get "tied" down.  Most are just scared or have unrealistic ideas on what a man and a relationship is.

 

In regard to being single, some of us like it.  This past weekend the guy that I've been "getting to know" for the past nine months and I had the "talk" about the status of "relationship". As much as I'd like to be in a relationship, my life doesn't allow it and I think I purposely work like I do, so I can avoid dealing with a relationship.

Now I'm just throwing this out there - quite a few of the people who are complaining have never shown up for an urbanohio.com meet/event.  :drunk:

 

No, you may not find a potential date, but you'll meet some d@mned nice people who 1. you have something in common with (the forum AND in most cases, beer), 2. could possibly know someone who might be dating potential. You never know.

 

Musky still hasn't returned my calls or texts after that magical night......

 

 

I have nothing.

"In regard to being single, some of us like it."

 

And that's perfectly fine :-)

 

"As much as I'd like to be in a relationship, my life doesn't allow it and I think I purposely work like I do, so I can avoid dealing with a relationship."

 

As someone who has had to listen to others in the same situation - do me a favor (this isn't directly at you, MTS) - be happy being too busy with work but for the love of god, shut the h#ll up about "I can't meet anybody!" and "there isn't anyone to date". You're the one who decided that working 60+ hours a week was more important than having a healthy social life or time where you'd be available for a date - you've made your bed, so please stop whining and sleep in it!

 

pope and musky - there's just sumthin' unnatcheral about that.

"In regard to being single, some of us like it."

 

And that's perfectly fine :-)

 

"As much as I'd like to be in a relationship, my life doesn't allow it and I think I purposely work like I do, so I can avoid dealing with a relationship."

 

As someone who has had to listen to others in the same situation - do me a favor (this isn't directly at you, MTS) - be happy being too busy with work but for the love of god, shut the h#ll up about "I can't meet anybody!" and "there isn't anyone to date". You're the one who decided that working 60+ hours a week was more important than having a healthy social life or time where you'd be available for a date - you've made your bed, so please stop whining and sleep in it!

 

pope and musky - there's just sumthin' unnatcheral about that.

 

MayDay, I agree!  But it's hard to date and rejection is not fun.  I've been stood up, three times this year alone.  But I prefer midwest men anyway, because they "appear" on the surface to be more relationship oriented.

I'm not talking about dating in general (hello, if it was easy it wouldn't be called romance) or being stood up (that's just tacky) - I'm saying I've had to listen to too many workaholics b!tch that there's no one to date, but it's "nnnever" about them and their maniacal schedules, it's always someone else.

I'm not talking about dating in general (hello, if it was easy it wouldn't be called romance) or being stood up (that's just tacky) - I'm saying I've had to listen to too many workaholics b!tch that there's no one to date, but it's "nnnever" about them and their maniacal schedules, it's always someone else.

 

Again, agreed!  Couldn't have said it better myself.  to sum it up, it's a "passive aggressive" situation.  We want someone, but don't want to commit and use work as a crutch.

MayDay, I agree!  But it's hard to date and rejection is not fun.  I've been stood up on three dates this year alone. But I prefer midwest men anyway, because they "appear" on the surface to be more relationship oriented.

 

And I haven't been on a date in the last three years!

MayDay, I agree!  But it's hard to date and rejection is not fun.  I've been stood up on three dates this year alone. But I prefer midwest men anyway, because they "appear" on the surface to be more relationship oriented.

 

And I haven't been on a date in the last three years!

Does being lazy have anything to do with it?   :wink:

 

You're an attractive guy with a good job, you shouldn't have any problems meeting a quality person to date.

^Quite frankly I don't try. they should approach me that I'm such a catch!

^Quite frankly I don't try. they should approach me that I'm such a catch!

Oh lord.

^Quite frankly I don't try. they should approach me that I'm such a catch!

Oh lord.

 

Hey, let me live in my world, where I can blame "them" and its clearly not my fault.

This is a depressing thread.  It brought back memories of my single era when coworkers would invite me to parties that were all a bunch of couples.  Friends that I would talk shop or hobbies with would only talk about "couples subjects" like going to Hawaii, or buying something, or -yecch- children. 

 

Then I recall one of the ditz wives who would always ask me why I was still single when I had all these positive attributes like a job, a car and no criminal record.

 

And winter's coming!

apparently I find "couples subjects" boring too.

I can handle the vacation talk to a point. I can handle people talking briefly about a funny thing their kid did the other day.

 

However, when people blather on and on (mind you, while they're sober and I'm trying my best not to be) about their "gifted", "adorable", or "cutest" spawn... or how it's just so f#cking neat that they make turbocharged diapers, or there's a new show made for 2 year olds - but parents love it too...

 

And if someone gets the lovely idea that my partner and I should adopt and then be f#cking stupid enough to suggest it, I assure you - said person will be spayed/neutered with a rusty pizza wheel!  :x

 

Don't worry folks - my partner knows he's really lucky to be with someone as delightfully cheerful as me!  :evil:

 

However, when people blather on and on (mind you, while they're sober and I'm trying my best not to be) about their "gifted", "adorable", or "cutest" spawn... or how it's just so f#cking neat that they make turbocharged diapers, or there's a new show made for 2 year olds - but parents love it too...

I don't know what's worse...people talking about their children or their dog.

 

I guess I'm used to being the third wheel in most of my friendships.  Most of the time they leave me giving thanks that I am still single :)

>This is a depressing thread.  It brought back memories of my single era when coworkers would invite me to parties that were all a bunch of couples.  Friends that I would talk shop or hobbies with would only talk about "couples subjects" like going to Hawaii, or buying something, or -yecch- children.

 

You forgot recipes.

 

 

>I don't know what's worse...people talking about their children or their dog.

 

I was bitten today by a beagle.  I didn't hear it coming, all the sudden I felt pain in my shin like a bee sting.  It bit me through my jeans but there was still some blood.  I was wearing boots and immediately turned around to kick it in the face but it backed away too quickly and I missed.  Of course the owner had its back turned and missed the bite but saw me try to kick it.  I really, really hate dog people. 

 

 

 

I actually think single people and their dogs might be as annoying as married people talking about sodden diapers. Its hard to say. While,I am always happy when someone I care for spawns, and some kids really are cute, My threshold isn't the greatest for kid talk

And if someone gets the lovely idea that my partner and I should adopt and then be f#cking stupid enough to suggest it, I assure you - said person will be spayed/neutered with a rusty pizza wheel!  :x

 

Don't worry folks - my partner knows he's really lucky to be with someone as delightfully cheerful as me!  :evil:

 

 

MayDay Dearest!  I emailed you S/O, the adoption information I've accumated over the year.   Congrats! 

I actually think single people and their dogs might be as annoying as married people talking about sodden diapers. Its hard to say. While,I am always happy when someone I care for spawns, and some kids really are cute, My threshold isn't the greatest for kid talk

I should introduce you to my nephew!  LOL

I actually think single people and their dogs might be as annoying as married people talking about sodden diapers. Its hard to say. While,I am always happy when someone I care for spawns, and some kids really are cute, My threshold isn't the greatest for kid talk

 

Thank you. I agree that kid talk should be curbed around single/childless people. Like any intense shared experience, it's worse than boring to outsiders.

I don't know what's worse...people talking about their children or their dog.

 

But she is so cute!

^And my son is totally cute. And he loves mass transit!

 

Otherwise, my happily-married ass has nothing to add to this thread.

^And my son is totally cute. And he loves mass transit!

 

Otherwise, my happily-married ass has nothing to add to this thread.

alright I will agree your little one is real adorable...He likes scooters too if I recall.

dating...HA...Cleveland needs more hookers!!!!

OK, I haven't attended an UrbanOhio meet-up yet. Lo siento!!!

 

In terms of being picky, I am picky, but I'M WAY, WAY better than I was in college. Looks are obviously the first impression, but that's equally as important as good style, personality, sense of humor, values, mannerisms, etc. The issue is finding "normal" girls because I'm swinging for the fences with girls with issues.

 

I have sometimes wondered what I'd do if I met a girl and she'd was dead-set on living in Strongsville or Solon.