Call me old fashion I guess.

 

It makes sense - it's easier to find someone with common interests and it's easier to approach people but just from having myspace and facebook and seeing how fake people are, I can't imagine how bad it is on dating websites. A lot of their interests and sh!t on myspace sound so cliche. I'm sorry but I don't buy the fact that you're a female and into 'hiking, four-wheeling, BMX, rockclimbing, architecture and politics". Chances are, you're like everyone else - in school or doing your 9-5 then you come home and watch tv and gossip with your friends. When people meet you they're going to find out you're just normal (well..or a complete weirdo) so even though you might lure someone in, they're going to find out who you really are when they meet you.

 

I'm glad it's working out for you though. I'm happy for you. I have a feeling if I met up with a bunch of girls on match.com or something, they would end up being like those chicks on Deuce Bigalow lol . I'd rather meet people through people instead of finding out their pics are 4 years old and that they've gained about 40 pounds since  :-o .

I'm so over men.  Be single, celibate and be happy!

It's absolutely true that there are a lot of fine women sitting around watching dumb movies alone on Friday nights.  One of the finer women I've known, who only went out about once a month, admitted to being addicted to yahoo chat rooms, although once you got to know her she was a bit insane. 

 

But on the other side, most bars are out of control, especially the big college bars.  This is mostly because the music is usually horrible and always too loud.  Sometime when you're in one of those places imagine if they suddenly played some of the old R&B love songs.  All the tension would evaporate and people could meet on friendly terms instead of everyone pretending they're on a rap video.  That's why house parties (well, mine at least) will always be better than bars (and parties out in the country will always be better than city parties).   

 

Today I was at Skyline Chili and Solomon Burke's "Everybody Needs Somebody" came on and this lady across the counter started dancing in her seat and snapping her fingers.  Everybody in the place had a big smile on their face and I was worried a spontaneous Blues Brothers dance sequence was about to unfold.  All that old music was celebratory whereas everything in the past 15 years is just about being a stupid little idiot. 

Brown liquor songs always set the mood!  :wink:

^Brown Sugar?!  I'm pretty sure I danced to that one with a Jewish girl once.   

^Brown Sugar?!  I'm pretty sure I danced to that one with a Jewish girl once.   

 

No Sugar, Brown Liquor songs.

 

Songs with feeling and emotions.

I read a commentary once about the gay bar scene that probably applies to the straight bar scene as well. The author said that a successful bar owner learns how to maintain an atmosphere that creates the illusion that his customers have a chance of meeting Ms/Mr Right, but with sufficient level of distraction that there's really little chance of that happening. If a couple hook up, they leave. You want them to hang around and keep buying drinks until last call, when they can settle for the trick of last resort, someone they won't like waking up next to in the morning light.

 

I realized I had aged out of the bar scene early in the disco era, when it became all about putting on a show - wardrobe, dance, etc. - and the noise level became overwhelming. I couldn't deal with strobe lights at a certain frequency, either; they threw me into major sensory overload, and on one occasion I had to cover my eyes and ask a friend to lead me out the door.

 

The final straw was entering a bar and overhearing a lil' twink say to his friends, "Oh, look. My dad is here." I should have taken him by the ear, stood him up, lectured him about staying out past his curfew, and marched him out. I thought better of it, though, because I didn't want him showing up the next day on my doorstep, suitcase in hand.

I read a commentary once about the gay bar scene that probably applies to the straight bar scene as well. The author said that a successful bar owner learns how to maintain an atmosphere that creates the illusion that his customers have a chance of meeting Ms/Mr Right, but with sufficient level of distraction that there's really little chance of that happening. If a couple hook up, they leave. You want them to hang around and keep buying drinks until last call, when they can settle for the trick of last resort, someone they won't like waking up next to in the morning light.

 

I realized I had aged out of the bar scene early in the disco era, when it became all about putting on a show - wardrobe, dance, etc. - and the noise level became overwhelming. I couldn't deal with strobe lights at a certain frequency, either; they threw me into major sensory overload, and on one occasion I had to cover my eyes and ask a friend to lead me out the door.

 

The final straw was entering a bar and overhearing a lil' twink say to his friends, "Oh, look. My dad is here." I should have taken him by the ear, stood him up, lectured him about staying out past his curfew, and marched him out. I thought better of it, though, because I didn't want him showing up the next day on my doorstep, suitcase in hand.

 

I know how you feel! I don't drink so I rarely go out (I made an exception on New Years and got hammered! LOL). But when I did, I didn't really enjoy it much because of the loud music, which could make you deaf if you go there enough and the meat market feel. Then theres the attitudes! I remember going to this dive bar on Parsons Ave and when I walked in, this ugly little skinny twink looked over at me and my friend and gave us the nastiest look. You know the look, the one that tells a person that they weren't cute enough to be there or something. Within 5 mins of getting there we had to leave because I had already had a few and I was not in the mood for a confrontation with this twink. Its alot like that at Axis and Union too. Once I got beyond 195 and the age of 23, I just stopped going to the "popular" bars all together.

The final straw was entering a bar and overhearing a lil' twink say to his friends, "Oh, look. My dad is here." I should have taken him by the ear, stood him up, lectured him about staying out past his curfew, and marched him out. I thought better of it, though, because I didn't want him showing up the next day on my doorstep, suitcase in hand.

 

I would have cursed that lil b*tch out!  Or you could have responded, "Don't lie, you ----!  You mother was whore, you know you don't know who your father is!"

 

Honey, you have to put some of those Queens in their place!

I've actually had some pretty good luck in Cleveland meeting girls - the trick is usually to think outside the box.  I've done pretty well meeting straight girls at gay clubs - in particular Bounce - and I've heard numerous anecdotes of other straight guys affirming this method works.  Just make sure she's a she (no joke).

 

Whole Foods and Trader Joes are also great places to meet people - I've gotten a few numbers there.

 

Regarding internet dating, Match.com, jdate, and eharmony are utter crap but okcupid.com and plentyoffish are usually more miss than hit, which is ironic since those are free sites.  I haven't tried adultfriendfinder, but a friend of mine swears by it. 

 

 

 

 

I've actually had some pretty good luck in Cleveland meeting girls - the trick is usually to think outside the box.  I've done pretty well meeting straight girls at gay clubs - in particular Bounce - and I've heard numerous anecdotes of other straight guys affirming this method works.  Just make sure she's a she (no joke).

 

Yep.  My a few of my cousins met their wives at gay clubs hanging out with me.  You just have to go with someone who can assure you that "she" is a "she".

Where is a good place to meet guys outside of the bars in Columbus? I mean I'm not looking now because I'm seeing someone, but just for future reference! LOL

^Brown Sugar?! I'm pretty sure I danced to that one with a Jewish girl once.

 

No Sugar, Brown Liquor songs.

 

Songs with feeling and emotions.

 

Yes, yes! I have written lots of songs that I am proud of (with vocal melodies, too) while drinking whiskey. Half the songs I write sober end up in the trash.

Apparently someone thinks posting a photo of herself breast feeding the "5th and final baby" is catnip for Mr. Right:

I think that these sorts of ladies fantasize about a man that secretly wants to marry a needy lady with lots of kids. It is just not going to happen, but they argue that there is a "good man out there who loves kids." She's just looking for some guy to rationalize her prior poor decisions.

Well .. you never know. There could be some guy out there who's okay with the fact that she has five kids and is practically flashing the whole world.

 

Who's to say? I, personally, would run as fast as I could in the opposite direction.

I wonder how many other of her kids were supposed to be the last one.

Ouch. 

Flashing? More like sucking the tits of the taxpayer, since we are most likely subsidizing her kids (and her).

 

"Ok after I said I have the kids I realize I won't get anywhere lol..."

 

No, one kid is fine. But five? What the hell?

some people have five kids.  She could be recently divorced.  We don't know the backstory.

This is totally hilarious. I recognized this name on yahoo news after having read "The Game" a few years ago, and clicked on this link. This story is as long as it is lame, but then the response just goes on and on and on!   

 

 

Dating Tips Q&A: Are Women Attracted To "Nice" Guys?

 

by: David DeAngelo, Author of "Double Your Dating"

 

>>>THIS WEEK'S QUESTION<<<

 

Hi Dave,

I recently bought your ebook because I have met a girl that i am really into and I must make it work with her. You are probably busy but Im going to give you the background story of this and maybe you will have some specific advice for me.

 

I met this girl M. in July through a friend online. We got to know each other some and after a few weeks she came to watch my friend and I at a basketball game that we were playing in, and I met her in person briefly that day. Unfortunately, I did not see her in person again that summer because I was back to college soon, so we talked more online and it went very well. We really seemed to hit it off and had a lot in common and we were definitely good friends. I made her laugh a lot as we both said and did a lot of silly things (she likes that kind of stuff) and we continued to talk and get to know a lot about each other. I was very supportive of her and she was the same for me and showed a lot of interest in what I had to say. She wanted my phone number here at college and I gave it to her, and we began to talk a few times in the evening by phone too. She also wanted my mailing address here and sent me a package with a card and some goodies that were related to some inside jokes we have with each other.

 

This is when I decided that I wanted to be more than a friend to her and make a move to tell her subtly my intentions. I just told her that i thought she was really cool and since we have a lot in common I was wondering if she wanted to go out sometime when I got back home for break. She really didnt have much of a reaction one way or the other and just said that it would be fun. Well gradually things escalated and we spent more and more time talking to each other online and by phone, and we exchanged pictures and packages all the time and I opened up to her more and more and told her how I felt for her. I sent her roses to congratulate her and she liked that a lot. She is somewhat of a quiet shy girl, but she is really nice but also very hesitant. She has never been in a relationship before, and the funny thing is that this is true more or less for me too. I continued to tell her my feelings for her more and she would only say that she felt the "same" or "me too". She said that she was worried that when I got to meet her more when i was home my feelings would not be the same. So talking till nearly Thanxgiving, it was to the point where we knew almost everything about each other that we could talk about, and I was really showering her with attention and compliments (I know, according to your teaching this is wrong haha) and she just said that we have to wait and see. I teased her telling her that there were some dreams I had but would have to wait to tell her how they ended, and she said she would eventually open up to me. Well me got together finally over my Turkey break and I went over to their house for the evening after dinner (i bought....youre probably saying "doh") and we watched movies. Their family seems to like me a lot by the way, and I have talked to M.'s sister and mother on occasions before this. I asked if i could put my arm around her and she let me, and then before i went home we went for a short walk and I held her hand to "keep it warm". Before I got into the car she gave me a hug and I invited her over for tomorrow, and that since we are an hour away from each other's house she could stay the night to save time. So we had a good time Thursday and she met my family, and we played games and movies and such, and I said she could sit with me in my couch where it was warmer and she accepted. After the movie was done at about 2:30 am, I shut it off and we just lay there reclining. I started to stroke her arm and gently rub her hands, and then i went to her face and neck and hair, once in a while whispering in her ear and saying she smelt and looked good. She just lightly giggled, and rest her head on my chest but she didnt really do any touching herself, but we got out of the chair at 6 am and slept till 9 am and got up and had a fun day again playing games and I showed her around town. We played footsie under neath the card table some but again it was pretty much myself doing all the showing of affection. We had a candle lit dinner that night and I asked her if her doubts had been answered yet, and she said she knew how I felt but that I needed to get to know her more and that she just was hesitant and not able to open up as much as I am yet. She sat in the couch with me again Friday night and it was more of the same and then she went to bed at 3, but I couldnt sleep that night because I really wondered if I was maybe being too serious and forward for her. She wanted up at 6:15 and so I woke her up touching her face, and we lay in my bed for about an hour with more of the same of me touching her, and then it came time for her to get ready and say goodbye. I had asked her on several occasions over the week at what I felt was the right time if she wanted to know how my dream ended (which we both know what it is hehe) but she said not yet and maybe later. I had written her a long note that night since I didnt sleep and I gave that to her out by her car and she gave me another hug and off she went. I flew back out to school Saturday morning and I have been pretty sad, both because I miss her and because Im not sure if she feels the same way I do.

 

It seems like she likes all the attention Im giving her that she has never gotten before, but only seems to reciprocate the same things I say and she does not open up to me nearly like i have to her. So i have decided I need to probably try another approach and start applying your methods and see if that gets me anywhere. I will be home for a break in a few weeks and Im hoping that she will start opening up to me then, otherwise im not sure I want to continue to keep giving myself to her like I have if she wont do the same. She does give me a lot of her time so I know she is interested, but I want her to start really being into me the way I have shown her. So Ive been reading your stuff and I think I need to loosen up and tease her a little more and not shower her with compliments, maybe once in a while, and I need to start talking to her less. I think I need to be a little more indifferent but Im just not sure what exactly to do as far as how sweet i am supposed to be to her, and the right kind of attitude i need to have. I think I need to let my "cocky and funny" side come out more but I dont want her to think I am not interested in her or that I am a prick. Im thinking that I need to realize less is more, and give her opportunities and such but make it sparingly and focus more on just being a fun person. Its been almost 5 months knowing her and theres a lot more I could say as far as details, but Im wondering that from what you can get out of this if you have any specific advice for me? I appreciate it a lot man, and thanx for the book! Talk to you later.

Mixed up in Minnesota

 

>>>MY COMMENTS:

 

You might want to sit down for this.

 

Sit on a chair with ARMS on it so you don't fall off, OK?

 

It's VERY clear to me that you've become VERY emotionally attached to this girl... and that you like her very much (women all over the world are reading this right now and crying...).

 

And I know that when you really, really, REALLY like a girl, "things are different".

 

I know that this one is different from ALL of the others... and that you don't want to risk doing something wrong with her... so you're not using any of the materials that you're learning from me...

 

In fact, you're saving the things you've learned from me for "later"... just in case what you're doing doesn't work in the end.

 

And even though I'm going to verbally beat your ass for all of this in a moment, I want to let you know that I really do understand.

 

By the way, I'm only being this nice because it sounds like you're still pretty young, and have almost ZERO experience with women.

So don't get too used to this "kid gloves"

 

stuff from me. Next time you write, I'm just going to launch into it.

OK.

Here's how your letter started:

"I recently bought your ebook because I have met a girl that i am really into and I must make it work with her."

 

I smelled trouble before I was finished reading that first sentence, man.

Here's what my gut tells me:

You sound DESPERATE.

 

You sound like the affection-starved human male equivalent of a hungry homeless kitten.

It's also clear to me that somewhere along the line in your life you got the idea that if you want to make a woman like you, that you should ACT like a woman.

 

This is a problem.

 

From your perspective (which I understand a little too well from your detailed letter), it ALMOST looks like she might like you.

 

I mean, she's replying to everything you do in a "mirror image" kind of way.

She's not stopping you.

 

And sometimes she does something nice in return when you're sweet and thoughtful...

But you can FEEL that something just isn't quite "right" here.

 

Again, it ALMOST looks like she might like you... and when you're in this situation, even small hints seem like they could be "the big clue"

 

that lets you know that she is just as in love as you are.

 

But my guess is that this situation is much worse than you think.

 

In fact, I think that there's a very good chance that it's so bad... so, so bad... that it's probably a waste of time to try to "save" it.

 

I think that the "hints" you're getting from her are the behaviors of a sweet girl who doesn't like the idea of hurting you.

 

In other words, she's probably as far from "into you" as a girl can be... but she loves you as a friend, and cares about you as a person... so she can't bring herself to look you in the eyes and say, "Hey, you're acting like a girl and you've destroyed all chances of me ever feeling any type of ATTRACTION for you".

 

So let's talk about some of the things you've mentioned in your email...

 

The first thing that comes to mind is how much ATTENTION you give her.

In the moment, giving someone attention, seems like a great thing. They usually seem to enjoy it, and you know you're getting approval from them because they're still talking to you.

 

The other little "hidden bonus" of giving someone a lot of attention, is that you know they're not getting it from SOMEONE ELSE during the time that you're giving it to them...

Which gives many people a false sense of security.

 

Heavy, man.

 

But I think it's time you started thinking of this topic a little differently.

Think of attention, compliments, physical affection and emotional attachment like FIREWOOD.

 

A little at a time is perfect.

 

But if you put it all on at once, you're going to burn the house down and destroy everything.

When you give a woman too much attention, you are communicating that you're OBSESSED.

In other words, you're almost the OPPOSITE of a CHALLENGE.

 

Have you ever heard a woman say "I just met this really sensitive, thoughtful, sweet guy that calls me 100 times a day and sends me flowers and cards and gifts... and I just can't stop thinking about him..."?

 

No?

 

Me neither.

 

Surprise, surprise.

 

Women aren't INTO guys who are obsessed with them.

 

Women are INTO guys who are interesting, mysterious, challenging... guys who trigger ATTRACTION in them, not AFFECTION.

 

Here's how YOUR mind is working right now:

"It feels good, so do it."

"She seems to enjoy it, so keep it up."

"I don't want to lose her, so I must continue to smother her with attention."

"This is the only chance I get, so I must take it to the max."

"If I don't do something, some other guy will, and I'll be heartbroken."

Don't worry, this is how MOST guys think and act.

Hell, I did this stuff for years...

But here's what's probably going on in HER

 

mind:

"He's always there whenever I want to talk."

"He's such a sweet, nice, caring guy."

"Maybe if I keep talking to him, I'll feel something..."

"...But for some reason... I just don't FEEL IT for him... and I can't make myself feel it..."

"I don't want to hurt him, so I'd better be nice to him."

She probably feels a lot of guilt... because maybe she is thinking that she "led you on".

Here's something for you to think about:

"Getting, KILLS Wanting."

 

If someone gets something, or even knows that they HAVE IT whenever they want it, that thing becomes much less interesting to them.

 

As a rule, we humans desire things that aren't easy to get.

 

We don't want the easy thing!

 

Just think about it, man.

 

The more you don't know how she feels about you, and the more you try... the more you WANT HER.

It's working on you, but you can't see it!

 

Here's the bottom line:

Going with your emotions, and confessing your love for a girl too early on isn't always as "good" as it "seems" like it should be.

 

If you smother her with too much attention, she's going to run from you and go find a challenging guy.

She's giving you all the "I really like you, you're a sweet guy, I can't bear to break your heart, and I DON'T FEEL IT FOR YOU" signals.

 

You need to carefully consider your situation, and decide what you REALLY want.

She doesn't have experience with men, relationships, and life.

 

And from the sounds of it, neither do you.

 

You're acting on emotion here.

 

You're not THINKING.

 

I didn't hear you say "Yea, well I've thought this over, and it makes a lot of sense for her and I to be together..."

 

You're acting like a textbook WUSSBAG, dude.

 

It's time to face that reality...

If you were in a court of law right now trying to prove that you weren't a WUSSY, you would not be able to provide even a shred of evidence to support your case.

If the jury was made up of your Mom, Juliet (Romeo's girlfriend), Celine Dion, Cinderella, The Little Mermaid, Belle from Beauty and the Beast, Michael Jackson, and all five guys from "Queer Eye For The Straight Guy", even THEY would reach a UNANIMOUS verdict:

 

WUSSY!

 

They might even ask you to provide evidence that you're MALE... based on your testimony here.

And you've only got yourself to thank for it.

 

You did it all.

 

Here's something for you to remember:

Attention from a man can be like a DRUG for a woman... even if she isn't attracted to him.

 

A woman will often allow a guy that is IN LOVE with her to pour his heart out, confess his feelings, and demonstrate his devotion... even though she has ZERO INTENTION of feeling the same way herself.

And if you have a young woman who has never been in a relationship with a guy, this could be an even BIGGER probability.

 

Here's my guess:

95% chance she's not into you.

5% chance she is into you, but she's just too young, inexperienced, shy, or whatever to know what to do about it... or maybe she has some kind of strange religious programming that has brainwashed her into thinking that she needs to marry you before kissing you. But doubtful.

 

You're in one BI-ATCH of a situation.

 

You're emotionally attached to this girl, and you "like-like" her.

She's emotionally attached to you, but she most likely DOES NOT "like-like" YOU.

What you do here is your choice, but the chances of something working out are slim-to-none, because you didn't create ATTRACTION at the beginning with this girl.

And even if there were some sparks initially, your Wussy behavior has almost surely killed them all off for good.

 

SOME GOOD NEWS

 

Now that I've dealt you the bad news, let's talk about the future.

Let's talk about what you can learn from this experience.

 

And let's talk about how to use what you've learned to make your life great in the future.

 

And who knows, maybe after you get your act together, and this girl gets a little bit of life and relationship experience, you just might get lucky and meet her in an airport and she'll forget what a girly-man you used to be...

Actually, probably not.

 

But it was a nice thought.

 

In the future, if you are "interested" in a girl, you must remember to be a MAN around her.

Women feel ATTRACTION for "MEN".

On the other hand. they feel AFFECTION for

 

"nice guys" that wind up becoming FRIENDS.

Instead of waiting until the very end, when you are convinced that a woman isn't into you, before doing what you're learning from me... do it from the BEGINNING.

You must SPARK the ATTRACTION right from the start.

 

You can't wait until the end, man.

 

What you were doing was like trying to take all the ingredients of a cake and bake them, then mix them.

It doesn't work that way.

 

In the future, you need to do the right things, in the right order.

 

You've learned a valuable lesson. So appreciate what you've learned... even though it's hard.

 

You're off to a good start now that you've read my eBook... but it really sounds to me like you need to REPROGRAM YOUR MIND.

 

It sounds like you need a complete overhaul of your thinking.

 

It sounds like you need a major DE-WUSSING, followed by a ground-up education on how to think, act, and communicate in a way that makes women feel ATTRACTION for you...

 

You NEED to sign up for my free Dating Secrets eLetter, and get yourself a copy of my eBook, "Double Your Dating".

 

There's just no two ways about it.

 

You wasted probably ten times as much time, energy, money, and emotional distress in this relationship as you would have invested in getting and learning from my book.

 

And it would have not only saved you a lot of time and money, but also the damn emotional PAIN that you're having to endure.

 

Take it from me... I've been in your shoes.

 

I know what it feels like to be doing every possible thing and giving as much as humanly possible... only to have a girl respond by saying "I don't know how I feel" or "I just think we should be friends".

It sucks.

 

But it doesn't have to be this way!

 

If you will invest in yourself and do yourself the favor of getting this education, you can take control of this area of your life... and avoid situations like this in the future.

My eBook... but you have to go get it and then follow it.

 

All the details, plus some great free samples are here:

I got lost reading that but I'll tell you one thing, some girls like nice guys, more girls love a$$holes

That's the guy Angelo who writes for date.com. I read his stuff and then discontinued my membership to that site. The "cocky-funny" instructions he gives is to teach men how to be bigger and better assholes. If that's what women want, that's fine. Those are the same women who end up hating men after 1-5 years.

Oh yeah...it's coming back to me now.  In The Game "Mystery" and "Style" go to a Waffle House with that guy and he picks up the waitress by pointing at a sugar packet. That book is one of the most solidly entertaining things I've ever read.  I sensed that the writing was dumbed down by the editor, which actually made it funnier.

 

The problem with these 'techniques'...outside of the fact that they're ridiculous...is that everyone knows them. So, if you're going to try and pull off the compliment / criticism maneuver, you're going to come across as a d-bag with a penchant for oversized fur top-hats and too much eye liner.

 

I will also bet you that the author of that letter is also the same d-bag with a penchant for oversized fur top-hats and too much eye liner.

 

And 'wussy'...really? Are we still using that word? That's fresh.

The techniques still work because most women, subconsciously if not consciously, will be attracted, above all else, to a man who can trick other people.  Trick people into doing something embarrassing, trick them into revealing something about themselves, trick them into liking them.  Like it or not someone who is too honest is subconsciously judged as being weak, even by an honest female, because it probably is the case that they get walked on and used without realizing it. 

 

Now, there is the rare occasion when boy meets girl in a bar or at a party and they really hit it off in an honest way. This is of course helped along if they meet through a mutual friend, in which case a certain base level of honestly can be depended upon, but it can happen when people meet totally randomly, it's just that the mood created by meat market bars doesn't lend itself to pleasant conversation. 

 

Reading "The Game" verified some of my own observations.  Like if you talk to a girl for 20 minutes or so and she says "stay here, I'll be right back", it means if you're still there if she comes back you're weak. If you can't manage to strike something up with a new girl while she's at the bathroom, you at the very least need to walk out by the door and make it look like you're leaving.  I messed up once back before cell phones (and "the game") and intentionally left a place after having a great conversation with a great girl who I'd seen there about 4 times, but then never saw her again since she completely left town. 

Most women, and by most I mean 85%, are emotional politicians. I was ill-prepared for that reality due to having no sisters, no female cousins or aunts within 10 years of my age, and an emotionally stable mother.  I got snookered big-time in high school, and experienced approximately 85% of the crap (and about 10% of the good) women can fling at a man before leaving for college. My baby brother told some story this weekend about some recent prom-going mishap that ended with him paying the bill for his date AND some other couple's dinner. Hopefully he'll learn not only not to let stuff like that happen but also not to provide older brothers with that kind of meat.  He's never going to hear the end of that one, if I have anything to do with it. Actually I'll lay off for a year or two, just to see if he's stupid enough to share that kind of stuff again after the senior prom.     

The problem with these 'techniques'...outside of the fact that they're ridiculous...is that everyone knows them. So, if you're going to try and pull off the compliment / criticism maneuver, you're going to come across as a d-bag with a penchant for oversized fur top-hats and too much eye liner.

 

I will also bet you that the author of that letter is also the same d-bag with a penchant for oversized fur top-hats and too much eye liner.

 

And 'wussy'...really? Are we still using that word? That's fresh.

 

Nobody uses wussy anymore. I haven't heard it in years. I don't even hear people use pussy much anymore. Anyway, I've got a lot of thoughts on dating and meeting chicks, and working in a bar gives me insight into all the archetypes and what works and what doesn't work.

 

A. Be good-looking. Girls like good-looking guys just as much as guys like good-looking girls. At least work out and try to dress decent without looking like an asshole. Don't gel your hair much or try to look "Jersey" unless you're in Jersey (though I guess Ohio is the New Jersey of the Midwest). People at heart are all shallow, but understand "good-looking" can be very subjective. Some girls only like white guys. Some only like black guys. Some like the Jason Statham look. Others prefer the Johnny Depp look. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. We're the same way. I'm extremely attracted to girls with big noses or "beaks" as my friends call them. Some guys don't agree with me.

 

B. Be social and smile. Girls immediately divide guys into "creepy" and "not creepy." They base this on many things- appearance, demeanor, voice, smile, etc. Hilariously, they always screw this up and end up going home with the biggest creep in the bar. They just don't know it. If they'd just ask me who is most likely to have an STD, I can give them an answer with a 95% confidence interval. The thing is you can't really fake your social skills. Typically the nicest, most honest guys are shy, so they have more trouble with women.

 

C. If you've got to be an asshole/douchebag/cach/whatever, do it only in small doses. Don't take it to the level of making a scene or being insulting.

 

D. Money, etc. doesn't have anywhere near the influence people think it does. It certainly can't hurt, but I see plenty of unemployed guys with hot chicks. Why? No clue. But it does change with age.

 

E. Don't be afraid to go outside your race. Where I'm at, that automatically triples your chances.

 

F. Don't take things (or people) too seriously. The most successful guy is the one who never comes off as in need of anybody. It's the guy who doesn't get phased by rejection and has no trouble moving on and finding someone else. You've got to be completely independent.

 

G. Be masculine. Masculinity means independence and an ability to stand your ground. If you let girls walk all over you, they will. Don't be afraid to call out girls if they're being jerks, and just get up and leave if they piss you off. You've got to send the message of I don't give a f$&k. You're replaceable. People are really messed up in the head. Girls want the guy they feel is harder to obtain.

 

You forgot the most important one: H - wear a giant furry top hat. It says "Hey, look at me..I'm confident enough to wear something ridiculous"....or "I'm an Alice in Wonderland fetishist"

 

Really, I hate to keep harping on the hat, but what's the story with that? Nobody's 'cool' enough to pull that off, because it's just a stupid accoutrement that screams "I need attention!!". You're better off wearing a Carmen Miranda-esque fruit hat. At least that way your friends have something to snack on while they're at the bar. [edit: big hat guy doesn't have friends, so it will give him something to snack on while he's not talking to girls]

 

 

 

And Jake, you must never lay off your brother for that mistake. Ever. The best life lessons are those that are learned through ridicule.

 

 

 

Like it or not someone who is too honest is subconsciously judged as being weak, even by an honest female, because it probably is the case that they get walked on and used without realizing it.

 

I don't think the issue is honesty.  maybe you're talking about naivety? I've never been one for games or any of that crap.  If i like you, i'll call you.  But, just like anyone, women don't need guys to be there all the time or give off the vibe that they're creepy stalker-like people.  Be social and honest to a point.  i don't know about all that "don't wait for the girl to get out of the bathroom" thing...that seems a little lame.  But, i've never read "the game" and don't intend to. of course, i'm married...hopefully for awhile.

I haven't dated seriously in a while.  I really haven't been into it, because I feel bad my brother has gone thru a ugly divorced and all of a sudden like 6 guys came out of the nowhere.  When it rains it pours!  The issue is that two are in their early 20's and I feel that they are too young for me and have clearly expressed that. 

 

I accidentally bumped into one of these guys yesterday, when I was with my brother, oldest nephew and niece and my cousins daughter.  My niece is the only person who knew what was up.  So I introduced him to the other and as I was trying to get everyone to leave, when  says, "I call you later, lets go to the movie.  I haven't seen you in a while it would be nice to get together again."  I said, "Ah...yeah..lets talk later".  My brother blurts out, "See you again?  oh wait!  Noooo!  How old is that boy?"  The guy is like I'm grown, I'm 23, I'm a college graduate and I can handle mine.  My brother just bursts out laughing, then says, "You can handle yours?  You can handle yours? Do you know anything about my siddity high maintenance brother?"

 

So I start talking to them in Spanish, I say, "let go to CVS.  Now!  I'm so embarrassed. Secondly, I don't want him to know where I live.  I just appear in front of CVS whenever we meet.  He thinks I live on N. Moreland as he lives on S. Moreland.

 

My big mouth brother had to tell my parents, because this morning, my mother gave me the "disapproving" look when I came down stairs for breakfast, so I don't even engage, as its a battle I'll lose.  I go into the TV room and my father says, ""Skipper",(when he says skipper I know a joke is coming) look at this".  It was Mutual of Omaha's wild Kingdom talking about Cougars. My brother then calls me a saber-tooth cougar of the Jurasic Park era; my ex favorite nephew adds,  "I think he and I went to elementary school together?  No I'm certain we went to elementary school together!".  :whip: 

 

I'm really embarrassed, but at the same time, we've been on three dates, I've had fun going out with him.  The dates have been unpretentious, he wasn't trying to impress me, he got a good head on his shoulders, a very good job, dresses very nice, well spoken, comes from a good family.  We have several things in common.

 

But why do I feel so guilty?  On one hand, I say "he's an adult" and then on the other, I feel like "Mr. Robinson."

"But why do I feel so guilty?"

 

Because you worry too much about what other people will say or think, instead of worrying about your own happiness*.

 

*Sure, there's an age difference and that's nothing to dismiss but I've known plenty who have made it work, and others who have enjoyed it for what it was, knowing it wasn't meant to be lifelong. You're both over 21 and independent, right?

If he seems mature enough to handle a geezer, I say there's nothing wrong with it. The family will get used to it, and learn to see past his age.

If he seems mature enough to handle a geezer, I say there's nothing wrong with it. The family will get used to it, and learn to see past his age.

 

Geezer?  Watch it, Missy!

 

I'm from a family of practical jokers, nothing is off limits.  Hell, he's chasing me.

 

"But why do I feel so guilty?"

 

Because you worry too much about what other people will say or think, instead of worrying about your own happiness*.

 

*Sure, there's an age difference and that's nothing to dismiss but I've known plenty who have made it work, and others who have enjoyed it for what it was, knowing it wasn't meant to be lifelong. You're both over 21 and independent, right?

I'm so not worried what other think, in that aspect, although I must admit, when my nephew said they went to elementary school together, I did feel weird.  We're both "grown folks".

 

I know not everyone is for everybody.  It is what it is.  I honestly think age bothers him.  When we met he didn't believe I was over 40, he thought I was in my late 20'2/early 30's.

humph!  It's all good over here!

Maybe the kid is looking for a sugar daddy. Or in your case, a Papi de azúcar

Maybe the kid is looking for a sugar daddy. Or in your case, a Papi de azúcar

Oh hell no.  I'm not taking care of another grown ass man.  Been there, done that!  I will not happen again.

 

And that is another reason why I wont tell him where I live.

I will not happen again.

 

You can bet the farm on that!  I am fairly certain that God never even considered MTS for mass production.

I will not happen again.

 

You can bet the farm on that!  I am fairly certain that God never even considered MTS for mass production.

 

I'm a designer one-of-a-kind creation!

I understand your hesitation, although I would point out that age and maturity are surprisingly unrelated ... I've always tended to date guys a bit older than be, but recently several guys in their early 20s have appeared out of nowhere (there must be some kind of young gays convention in town!), and I've been surprised by how kind and thoughtful each of the three seems. Meanwhile, I've had guys on up to their early 40s absolutely devastate me because of their childish and selfish shenanigans :) I don't know ... there's something to be said for catching a guy before he hits the "bitter 30s"; if a guy is still single by then, he's usually developed a bit of a thick skin. And if you don't want them, PM me their contact details. Haha.

JMO, but if you are on the fence about it, I wouldn't bother pursuing it further.  If you really wanted to be with that person, you would be with them and wouldn't care what anyone else thought one way or another.  I think time is too short to spend it with someone you only have mediocre feelings about and are afraid to tell where you live for whatever reason.  I mean, if you're just looking for someone to casually date because you're bored, fine, but it just doesn't sound worth the effort to me.  I think you're using the age thing as an easy excuse to get out of something you aren't really that interested in pursuing.

My sister-in-law moved to Cleveland last year. She promptly joined Eharmony. She's getting married in late summer to the first and only guy that she dated through Eharmony.

 

I just saw this and boy that sure does depress the hell out of me! I couldn't catch a cold! I couldn't get any interest on Match.com, e-harmony, Chemistry or OKcupid.

 

But the moment I put a profile on Elena's Models (Russian and Eastern European women) I got swamped with interest. So I flew to Warsaw in January to meet one of them and it was clear she wanted me to move faster than I did (she asked me why I never gave her my hotel room number), even though she said she wasn't physically attracted to me and wanted to be friends first (as I did -- it took me a week just to get comfortable enough with her to hold her hand). So that one fizzled.

 

So now I'm paying to fly a woman in from Moscow in June to stay for two weeks. I plan to take her to Put-in-Bay, Chautauqua Lake, Niagara Falls, Amish Country, Cuyahoga Valley National Park, museums, theaters, wineries and more. My emotions range from being very hopeful to wondering how I'm going to screw this one up too...

KJP....my brotha.  You never fly them in.

 

 

Sweetie, you're far to intelligent of a man to do that.

 

There is a good woman in CLEVELAND or at least in the States already for you.

 

You just gotta be a hunter and go get her!

JMO, but if you are on the fence about it, I wouldn't bother pursuing it further.  If you really wanted to be with that person, you would be with them and wouldn't care what anyone else thought one way or another.  I think time is too short to spend it with someone you only have mediocre feelings about and are afraid to tell where you live for whatever reason.  I mean, if you're just looking for someone to casually date because you're bored, fine, but it just doesn't sound worth the effort to me.  I think you're using the age thing as an easy excuse to get out of something you aren't really that interested in pursuing.

 

Were just getting to know each other.  and I'm private I don't want anyone to know where I live unless I tell them. 

 

26 going on 14 here and I still stand by my original post.  It's hard as hell dating someone in Cleveland. 

 

I disagree.  I think in CLEVELAND, and not in the suburbs, there are a ton of great little neighborhood bars where you can feel comfortable having a few drinks, making conversation with strangers, etc.  Skip the downtown bars where women go & expect to be hit on, and skip the suburb chain type pubs where everyone knows each other.

 

Even better, get involved!  I joined my block club, met some great people that way.  Get to know your neighbors, host parties.  I'm doing Corporate Challenge, fantastic way to meet interesting singles in the city.  Join a sport team on Hermes.  Join a gym, join a golf league in the summer, join a bowling league in the winter.  Round up some coworkers for drinks after work.  Talk to people!  Whatever you do, be funny, be confident but not cocky, be humble, but interesting.  Above all, be happy with yourself.  I see alot of folks on here saying they have been kicked around by life.  So what, it makes for great stories and you lived through it!  Nobody wants to hear about all your crazy ex's, but if it makes you a more well rounded person, than play that angle.

 

You don't have to look like Brad Pitt/Jennifer Anniston to score a date in Cleveland.  I think it's a great place to date.  There are alot of folks doing the online dating thing and it does work for some/many.  I think it's also terribly superficial when you can scan hundreds of profiles, sorted by age/income/body type or whatever.  It's also very easy to reject folks on there before you even get to know them.  I am a much bigger fan of meeting people live in person, having a drink, making conversation and seeing what happens.

KJP....my brotha.  You never fly them in.

 

 

Too late already paid for the tickets. Besides, I love Eastern Bloc women -- the accent, the look, the attitude toward what's important.

KJP....my brotha. You never fly them in.

 

 

Too late already paid for the tickets. Besides, I love Eastern Bloc women -- the accent, the look, the attitude toward what's important.

 

This could be why you haven't had success locally.  I know just a few men who over the years have obtained women either from "the old country" or from Russia or other eastern bloc type countries and they were looking for something that you don't typically find here; generally, a more submissive woman who knows her place - speaks when spoken to, loves cooking, keeping a home and serving her man, is nice looking, but not so pretty that the man will always have to feel like he needs to watch his back, etc.  I generalize, of course, but I know the guys who have hooked up with these women really seem to be happy because they've finally found what they're looking for. More modern women here in the US just don't fit the bill - too headstrong, too independent, too modern/not wanting to cook, keep house, etc.  Whether this is what you're looking for or not, I hope you find some success here, and not someone who is just looking for a fast way to a green card.  Be careful, but really, good luck.

She has a 10-year greencard already from a previous marriage to an American man who wanted her to be submissive and stay at home. I ran into many who wanted nothing more than to be a housewife and mother. They didn't get any further attention from me. The woman I am bringing here wants more out of life -- including a career and family. She wants to be an attorney and I will help her in whatever way I can to help her get a career in law. She also seems to care less about material things, as do most Eastern Bloc women, but when put into a store they shop as expertly as American women! She is communicative, takes the initiative, speaks her mind, but so far hasn't jumped to any conclusions about what I want in a woman. An open, non-assumptive mind is always a plus in any person!

 

I haven't had success locally because I've been too shy to speak to women. And now that I've thawed a little I find that in my preferred age group of the 30s the pickings are pretty slim here. There are more attractive and intelligent women in that age range available in former Eastern Bloc countries.

That sounds great.  In some ways, I'm really surprised you haven't found anyone "online" as your personality really comes across with your writing.  I emailed back and forth a LOT with someone I would meet online before agreeing to an in-person date, but you have to get your foot in the door first, and the dating sites aren't always the best for that.    What makes it easier to talk to these women than ones you met previously?  Is it just that you've matured more and feel more self-confident?  I actually found that the online dating helped me to widen my field as I was able to more easily find people I had shared interests with than I would from the "traditional" avenues.

 

The truth of the matter is that most women are seen as damaged if you get to 35 and haven't yet been married; are you open to divorced women and/or women with children?  I was very insistent on finding someone who hadn't been married as well and once I passed the 30 year age mark, I had fewer and fewer good choices.  I finally broke one of my "absolutes" when I did get married at 34 as I married someone who had been married previously.  Never say never, as they say, turned out to be good advice.  I remember turning down a couple of really nice widowers on the online sites because I wasn't ready to get past that "absolute," and they may have been perfectly great guys that I passed on for no good reason other than a stubborn personal preference.  It wasn't til I had decided I would never find someone and that I was happy being single forever and enjoying the dating thing while maintaining my independence that I met my husband-to-be.  Just some thoughts from someone who got married relatively late in life, from a social perspective at least.

I am better at writing than I am at speaking, especially to someone I've never met. Yet in my various jobs I have confronted mayors, CEOs of Fortune 500 companies, congresspersons, senators, reporters, appeared on numerous live television and radio programs and spoken in front of groups as large as 500. Don't get me wrong -- I do get some nerves tingling when speaking in these venues sometimes. But I have never frozen up or even walked away from them as I have done when an interesting and pretty woman has approached me.

 

As for her, she is 31 years old and has a three-year-old son. But she is leaving him in Russia so his grandmother can watch after him while she is here. Despite being married to an American man and living here for several years, she never got to see much of America (she's seen a suburb of San Jose and been to Las Vegas). So I promised her that I would show her around the Great Lakes region since I can't afford much more than that. Anything else that happens as a result will be the result of hope, not expectation.

 

I've lived with foreign exchange students before, and love showing visitors around. She is a world traveler (Europe, South Africa etc), having competed in gymnastics when she was a teenager. So I appreciate her global view.