Sorry - my rule of thumb was always to meet someone for coffee for a first date:

 

1. The likelihood of abundant witnesses.

2. More accurate lighting than a bar.

3. If things went sour, hey, it's just a cup of coffee (rather than a time-consuming and painfully awkward expensive dinner).

4. If things went well, hey, it's just another cup of coffee!

 

 

This is funny to see what everyone's criteria is.  I always, ALWAYS met someone either in a bar or a restaurant that had a bar.  Because:

 

- if they didn't drink, it really wasn't going to work out

- if they got some girly drink like a chocolate martini or something, um, no.

- when someone has one drink, they're more likely to open up just a little and it takes the edge off of "blind date" nervousness

- if they had too many drinks in too short a period of time, that was also a red flag

etc.  I always told someone where I was going and who I was meeting and then called after I'd been there a bit (excusing myself to go to the bathroom) and again when I was on my way home just so that if I encountered some psycho, at least someone would be able to tell the police something of what happened (never can be too careful).

 

I agree with MTS also about, pardon the pun, not blowing your load too soon.  Turning over new leaves in life such as losing weight, quitting smoking, quitting drinking, whatever, are huge life changes and can make you want to share way too much too soon.  Fine for friends, not good for a new relationship.  Put it this way.  The time to reveal intimate information of all types is when you feel intimate with the person and the relationship has gotten past initial getting to know you.  It's a non-specific time but you should reveal things in bits.  It's more interesting.

 

Also, working at an upscale bar/restaurant I learned if people consistantly come in to order drinks with Vodka in it, they're often times a closet alcoholic ;) I can smell Vodka a mile away though.

I'm petrified to do the internet thing.  Everyone wants a picture and the judge you based on that one dimensional picture.  Its all about the physical with no regard to other attributes a person might have.

 

I've only heard so-so or horror story's from people who have used an online dating service.  Also, I'm not a fan of myspace or facebook.

 

You know what you're problem is and I've told you.  Stop comparing "potential dates" to your Ex.

 

 

 

I hate you!  :whip:

^Oh that's a big and good piece of advice I'd give ANYone.

 

"Taurus' are crazy, jealous and possesive!"

 

I prefer "territorial" - I look at it as: there are things outside of my "pasture" that is my life over which I have absolutely no control. The idiot who trespasses and messes with people/things *within* my pasture should just kill themselves. Like all Taureans, I give warning when someone's getting to close to the line of demarcation. Now the "crazy" thing? If the 8" platform fits... ;-)

I can't use these internet dating sites because I teach a bunch of 18-21 year-old savages who would surely detect my online presence.  It's actaully pretty serious because a student could set up a false account and try to get the teacher to write unprofessional things to them and then you can say good-bye to your career and hell-o to Burger King.

 

 

>2. More accurate lighting than a bar.

 

Speaking as someone who used to take event photos at bars, it's amazing how much the dim lighting obscures the terrible world we live in.  Having spent over 100 nights in bars without drinking anything, I came to realize that most of what we attribute to alcohol (forgotten conversations, etc.) is really just the dim lighting, loud music, getting tired and hungry, and the fact so much goes on in 2 or 3 hours.  Or 14 if you went to OU. 

 

>Cougars

 

The cougars started pouncing when I was about 23-24.  Even then you start getting attacked as well by the 28 year-old divorcees who dress like they're 19.  That's the biggest single thing that drives me crazy with girls (women?) over age 25 -- when they start getting desperate to be "fun" and act like they're a sophomore on spring break.  The absolute worst are 38 year-old women who are in a hurry to show you their tattoos and piercings.   

^^ Yeah, that sounds awful, so where can I find these women???  ;)

^^ Yeah, that sounds awful, so where can I find these women???  ;)

 

jamiec, the cub.  Becareful, one those Cougars will eat you up!  LOL

my old boss dated someone he met on the internets. it turned out she was a publicity pesron for the us open. so he had courtside seats with her at a few us open tennis matches. i thought that was pretty cool. hey you never know!

 

I can't use these internet dating sites because I teach a bunch of 18-21 year-old savages who would surely detect my online presence.  It's actaully pretty serious because a student could set up a false account and try to get the teacher to write unprofessional things to them and then you can say good-bye to your career and hell-o to Burger King.

 

 

that's very true. a friend of mine just got canned from his college teaching gig after he had an, err, biref encounter, with a student who then wouldn't stop talking about it. they came in and got him out mid-lecture in the lecture hall! of course we have been howling with laughter at him ever since.

well it is a big difference to knowingly vs. unknowingly date a student.

So here's my brain dump on the whole internets dating thing --

 

I've tried internet dating several times and have absolutely no horror stories. Sure, some slightly uncomfortable encounters but nothing different from more typical dating. I've met one long-term partner and am currently seeing someone else who has promise. In total, over the years, I've probably met (in person) ~20 women online. About 50% resulted in a second date, maybe 25% a third and only a few went beyond.

 

Somewhat to my surprise, most of the women I've met have either looked as good or better (what a nice surprise that is) than their online photos. I take a pretty relaxed approach and am basically willing to meet just about anyone once, save a few tell tale sign in their profile like the people who TYPE IN ALL CAPS, have 50 billion pictures of themselves or answer the "do you want children?" question with an emphatic "Definitely, 5+" (only because I don't want children and it clearly wouldn't work). Personally I try not to become email buddies beforehand just because it's happened several times to me where I'll really get along with a girl but when you meet within 2 minutes you can tell there's simply no chemistry. That can take an emotional toll. In other words I usually ask a girl out after 3 or 4 emails max and prefer not to chat on the phone before going out but will do so if she expresses a desire to. I'm a big fan of a verrrry casual first date, limiting it to an hour or two over drinks (preferably alcoholic, for many of the same reasons listed above). Oh, and of course the age old advice of just being yourself always applies. If it works, it works. If it doesn't, no hard feelings and best of luck.

 

Match.com is definitely the juggernaut of the sites, and although I've used it the most recently it's not exactly my crowd. I've dabble with OkCupid.com, which seems to be more my kind of people but also seems to have fewer people truly motivated to meet someone. Eharmony.com blows, not only because of their bigotry towards same-sex relationships but the site itself just sucks. Salon.com used to have a great one but it's just dead now.

 

*shrug* Hope that helps.

 

 

well it is a big difference to knowingly vs. unknowingly date a student.

 

omg is that what you call a date?  :-o  :laugh:

just trying to be polite

yeah so was i, but within the bounds of reality.  :laugh:

The nice thing about OkCupid.com is that it is free, and already becoming quite popular.  I think in a couple more years, they may be giving Match.com a run for their money. 

I'll give that site a try. Jax, you have some great suggestions and helpful experiences. Here's something interesting: I'm finding I'm getting a lot more interest on date.com than I am on match.com.

 

What I find most interesting about dating sites is just to see what sort of people are out there, what they like to do, what they want, etc. etc. It's very interesting to someone like me to just learn about people. A friend also showed me a why to have some fun with these sites -- like, narrowing your national search criteria to athletic women with big boobs who are 6 feet tall or taller. Yep, there's lots of Amazonian brick houses out there! And then I adjust the search terms to reflect what I really want -- sweet, funny, smart women, and there's many many of them. If anything, that part is encouraging.

I read somewhere that Jdate has some brainy people. Originally it was set up for Jewish men and women, but as it happens many like to date out of their faith. I know this very insane women who met a really nice guy on there. I never could figure what he saw in her. I think there may be a charge though

Theres an interesting chapter about online dating in Freakonomics, I can't remember what all was said but theres an article that talks about some of it:

 

Freakonomics by Levitt and Dubner is a rather amazing book in which the authors apply analytic techniques to all kinds of questions that economists don't usually study. For example, they show that Sumo wrestlers throw matches to manipulate the standings. And that elementary education teachers cheat for their students to raise

scores on standardized tests.

 

So, what does this have to do with Internet dating? Well, Levitt and Dubner took data from a dating site and answered the age-old question of what attracts women to men and vice versa -- or at least what features of an Internet dating ad attract the most email in response.

 

 

Before reading on, try to guess what features in a man's ad are most likely to attract women to respond.

 

Got your guess?

 

OK, here is what they found:

 

1. Man is looking for a long term relationship.

2. Man is rich.

3. Man is tall.

 

So if you are Kareem Abdul Jabar looking to marry then you're golden. But if you're short, poor, and looking for casual sex then you may be lonely.

 

Now, what attracts a man to a woman.

 

Got your guess?

 

OK, here is what Levitt and Dubner found:

 

1. Woman is looking for casual sex.

2. Woman is thin.

3. Woman is blond.

 

So, if you are Evilicious Blond looking for a one-night stand then your going to see a lot of hits!

 

It's relatively easy to become blond. And it's relatively easy to lie about your income and not get

caught (as long as you don't exaggerate too much). The other variables are a bit harder to control...

 

Some other notes. For men weight was almost irrelevant. For women, it was bad to be really poor or really rich (presumably men find rich women threatening). For men, being balding was bad but having a shaved head was good. Right on!

 

Oh, and one last thing. You can't get away with not including a picture. Levitt and Dubner write "A low-income, poorly educated, unhappily employed, not-very-attractive, slightly overweight, and balding man who posts his photo stands a better chance of gleaming some emails than a man who says he makes $200,000 and is deadly handsome but doesn't post a photo."

 

The nice thing about OkCupid.com is that it is free, and already becoming quite popular.  I think in a couple more years, they may be giving Match.com a run for their money. 

 

Plus, they mention Slayer in their radio ads -- "Okcupid.com rules! Like Slayer!"

>a friend of mine just got canned from his college teaching gig after he had an, err, brief encounter, with a student who then wouldn't stop talking about it. they came in and got him out mid-lecture in the lecture hall! of course we have been howling with laughter at him ever since.

 

On one hand there's the argument that college students are adults, but there definitely have been serious abuses over the years at pretty much every university.  That said certain faculty members seem to get a pass while others are railroaded out of town in response to unconfirmed allegations.  When I was in grad school there were multiple major sex scandals in my building, two of which resulted in lawsuits and professors being detenured and others where nothing was done.  One time I remember sitting down at a computer to see an open email between a visiting professor and a female student but I didn't do anything about it since the rumor had been circulating for months already.  It was actually after the visiting professor had left town and he was presumably paying for her to fly up to New York City on the weekends.  That was just one case where nothing was done.  Then there was a certain professor who was seen punching his girlfriend (who was of course a former student) at the bar, but I could go on and on about that guy so I should stop now. 

 

>(presumably men find rich women threatening)

 

A few years ago I was unknowingly set up with a country club polo playing female on a Tuesday or Wednesday night.  It was one of those things where somebody told me about something that was going on and I didn't want to go because it sounded dumb but then I was called and told to come to it or else I was lame.  I get there (a basement bar) and it's a girl from work, her boyfriend, and that rich girl and we're the only people there.  There was no event.  I realized what was going on and I wasn't physically or mentally prepared.  Under other circumstances I could have gained a foothold.  To most people this girl would have been a 9 or 10 but I don't really like blond hair and I don't care about what rich people care about.  However, I did make use of the acquaintance sometime later when I was hiding from the police and used her apartment for cover.  I hung out there for about 2 hours and then made my way to where I was going through the woods, using my cell phone to light the way. 

 

 

Haha. I love Jake's stories :)

>Under other circumstances I could have gained a foothold.

 

Pieces of the conversation came back to me after posting that post.  Like a true player, I remember her changing topics abruptly, at one point telling me she had just been in Spain for a semester, and how incredible Spanish men were.  Girls know they can shut a lot of guys down just by insinuating the superiority of foreign men and making vague allusions to exchange trip hanky-panky.  In response I asked her if she'd ever heard the Elvis song "Never Been to Spain", which she hadn't, and she sensed and quickly scuttled my attempt to move the conversation to Elvis/Elvis Impersonators/Graceland/Elvis '68 Comeback Special/Elvis Live in Las Vegas Box Set.  And when I get rolling on all that, it's just a matter of time before:

 

You know someone said that the worlds a stage

And each must play a part.

Fate had me playing in love you as my sweet heart.

Act one was when we met, I loved you at first glance

You read your line so cleverly and never missed a cue

Then came act two, you seemed to change and you acted strange

And why Ill never know.

Honey, you lied when you said you loved me

And I had no cause to doubt you.

But Id rather go on hearing your lies

Than go on living without you.

Now the stage is bare and Im standing there

With emptiness all around

And if you wont come back to me

Then make them bring the curtain down.

 

 

Interesting stories all.  Have personally never tried internet dating.  Somehow just doesn't float my boat.  Some of my friends have had great success with online dating, others have horror stories.  Just know I'd fall into the horror side.  I don't have unrealistic expectations and certainly don't want a long term relationship. 

A good friend would always call me after each date and some of the stories he told me had me rolling on the floor with laughter.  People posting photos from 25 years ago, etc.  Don't they think the person will notice when they meet in person?  Another friend (a woman) met a man and they exchanged emails, photos etc and decided to meet.  He was coming from out of town and she was to pick him up at the airport.  She waited and waited and he no-showed.  Actually, he saw her (pre-arranged outfit, etc) and turned right around and booked a return flight without saying a word to her.  Guess the 20 year old picture she posted had something to do with it (and the addition of 60 lbs since the shot was taken).  Funny, they stopped corresponding. Hmmmm. She has a good sense of humor and it hasn't stopped her from entrapping the unsuspecting male into her lair. 

 

 

Okay, what the hell is this?!

 

 

 

Seriously, for fun I just plugged in "females 22-32 near 45219" and this came up.  I hadn't looked on Match.com in probably 4 years and am upset by poor quality of the scene and the bios that are obviously set-up by certain questions.  But seriously, they need to get a photo coach on there telling girls not to put these stupid photos up.  I went through 32 pages of women and only saw about 5 who looked like they were worth plunking down the $20 to try and score a date with. 

Well, you know what they say about spelunkers....

 

No, but this sounds like a make-your-own-punchline contest.

I think they are cave enthusiast.

My buddy found his woman on a russian bride website.

I thought he was crazy but the lady turned out to be gorgous and seems perfect for him.

as for myself.. I did it the old fashion way.. face to face.!.

Cavewoman needs to crawl out of that dank hole, visit the salon, buy some nice new clothes, and have someone take some decent photos.  I really think girls are wasting their time on these if they don't get some decent photos to put up there.  Guys don't care about your dog, we don't care about your trip to Argentina.  We don't care about seeing you water ski or whatever thing it is that you have done maybe twice.  We don't care about pictures of you when you were 6.  What's more 3 good photos are better than 9 ridiculous ones.  Hell, putting 1 bad photo with 8 good ones is not a wise move.  Maybe I should become an online dating consultant.

 

What is a resume for?  It's to get you the interview.  That's what these online profiles are...they are to get someone to contact you.  I'm not advocating a literal padding of the resume, but at least get some decent flattering photos. 

 

All that said, I was a bit disillusioned by the high salaries some of these women advertise...are there really that many 24 year-old women in financial services making $75,000? 

 

 

   

^Have we seen flattering photos of you? :?

ooooohh oo

I don't mean that to sound snarky but let's face it, there are a lot of average and/or forgettable-looking guys who judge womens' appearances a lot more harshly than they're entitled to.

I don't mean that to sound snarky but let's face it, there are a lot of average and/or forgettable-looking guys who judge womens' appearances a lot more harshly than they're entitled to.

 

Agreed

I don't mean that to sound snarky but let's face it, there are a lot of average and/or forgettable-looking guys who judge womens' appearances a lot more harshly than they're entitled to.

 

Plus, most beautiful women don't need to resort to online dating; they get hit on all the time. They have above average social networks. They have enough options. Why take the risk of meeting some random guy online?

I don't mean that to sound snarky but let's face it, there are a lot of average and/or forgettable-looking guys who judge womens' appearances a lot more harshly than they're entitled to.

 

Plus, most beautiful women don't need to resort to online dating; they get hit on all the time. They have above average social networks. They have enough options. Why take the risk of meeting some random guy online?

 

I'll take the bait on that one.  I happen to think I'm pretty decent looking, and so have the nine different men who have proposed to me throughout my lifetime, let alone my other boyfriends who didn't propose.  I went on quite a few dates on match.com before I met my husband and got married (didn't meet him on there).  As I said earlier in the thread, I loved it.  There is really no other way that I know of to be able to weed through guys you aren't interested in and only go out on a date with someone with whom at least you have some HOPE of having a decent conversation, or a few things in common that you know of ahead of time.  If you meet someone out you have no idea what kind of music they listen to, what values they have, what they're looking for ("Ms. Right vs. Ms. Right-Now" for instance), if they're divorced, have kids, are completely opposite you on the political spectrum, etc.  If you don't want to date someone who lives like 50 miles away, who has 4 kids, who is against ever getting married, who smokes, who doesn't drink, etc., you can just turn down all those requests and nobody has to bother wasting anyone's time.

 

Women don't mysteriously have some great social network that enable them to meet great guys any more than men do.

 

Maybe things have changed on there since I was on there since that was at least 6 years ago, but I do not agree that no beautiful women need to use a site like that.

I think I just got "owned"  :-o

Sorry gentlemen I haven't been in any caves lately but hopefully this will suffice:

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sleeping with the lamp on tonight.

Geez, I don't see anything wrong with that picture (the first one, not the creepy juiced up carrot top one *shiver*). I mean personally I would be turned off from a profile that featured all glitzed up pics. I find some candid in-situ pics are nice even if they mean, god forbid, she might have some human being imperfections like some visible sweat or matted hair. I'm more interested in an honest representation of her typical look (with a couple nice ones in there as well, of course). To each their own, eh.

 

Now I'm wondering if my match.com pic is coming up next with a "wow, look at this dork!" :wink:

 

I don't think the girl looks bad either. Not everyone looks like Lara Croft when they're spelunking.

Geez, I don't see anything wrong with that picture (the first one, not the creepy juiced up carrot top one *shiver*). I mean personally I would be turned off from a profile that featured all glitzed up pics. I find some candid in-situ pics are nice even if they mean, god forbid, she might have some human being imperfections like some visible sweat or matted hair. I'm more interested in an honest representation of her typical look (with a couple nice ones in there as well, of course). To each their own, eh.

 

Now I'm wondering if my match.com pic is coming up next with a "wow, look at this dork!" :wink:

 

 

The cave girl is cute!  If a picture is worth a thousand words, that one conveys her interests, that she's down to earth (no pun intended!), she's adventurous and likes to have a good time, etc.  And it effectively grabbed your attention, so it did the job.

 

>I don't think the girl looks bad either.

 

 

 

I read somewhere that Jdate has some brainy people. Originally it was set up for Jewish men and women, but as it happens many like to date out of their faith.

 

Even though Cleveland has a huge Jewish community, there's not much of a local presence on JDate; it's dominated by the NYC and LA crowd.  I'm Jewish, but just a middle class guy in the Hillcrest area. The women on JDate from the Cleveland area tended to be doctors, lawyers and other high-end professionals in Beachwood, Pepper Pike and Gates Mills.  (What are childless single women doing living in Gates Mills, anyhow?)  "Dating down" is unheard of in the Jewish community, so my brief foray into JDate was a bust. 

 

When I was on Match, the Cleveland-area membership seemed to be very much West Side-oriented.  Looking through my matches was like reading a gazetteer of West Side communities: Lakewood, Rocky River, Lakewood, Westlake, Lakewood, Lakewood, Cleveland with references to The Harp, Berea, Cleveland with lots of Crocker Park and Detroit Street references, Lakewood, Lakewood, Lakewood ... you get the idea.  Not many on the East Side in the Hillcrest and Heights area, but there were plenty of "my kids come first" soccer moms in Lake and Geauga counties, and tough-looking mountain women in Ashtabula.

 

I'm in a long term relationship with a wonderful woman now, so no more online dating! :)

I read somewhere that Jdate has some brainy people. Originally it was set up for Jewish men and women, but as it happens many like to date out of their faith.

 

Even though Cleveland has a huge Jewish community, there's not much of a local presence on JDate; it's dominated by the NYC and LA crowd.  I'm Jewish, but just a middle class guy in the Hillcrest area. The women on JDate from the Cleveland area tended to be doctors, lawyers and other high-end professionals in Beachwood, Pepper Pike and Gates Mills.  (What are childless single women doing living in Gates Mills, anyhow?)  "Dating down" is unheard of in the Jewish community, so my brief foray into JDate was a bust. 

 

When I was on Match, the Cleveland-area membership seemed to be very much West Side-oriented.  Looking through my matches was like reading a gazetteer of West Side communities: Lakewood, Rocky River, Lakewood, Westlake, Lakewood, Lakewood, Cleveland with references to The Harp, Berea, Cleveland with lots of Crocker Park and Detroit Street references, Lakewood, Lakewood, Lakewood ... you get the idea.  Not many on the East Side in the Hillcrest and Heights area, but there were plenty of "my kids come first" soccer moms in Lake and Geauga counties, and tough-looking mountain women in Ashtabula.

 

I'm in a long term relationship with a wonderful woman now, so no more online dating! :)

Mushugina, "dating down" isn't just frowned upon in the Jewish faith.  Us Gentiles don't like it either!!

For the most part, I don't think that's true. There's plenty of wealthy or upper middle class people who are with a partner who makes really modest income.

Mushugina, "dating down" isn't just frowned upon in the Jewish faith.  Us Gentiles don't like it either!!

 

Up yours, you classist goyim. :roll:

 

Sorry, that was inaccurate - you SINGLE classist goyim!  :-P

For the most part, I don't think that's true. There's plenty of wealthy or upper middle class people who are with a partner who makes really modest income.

 

True.  I didn't say it doesn't happen, I just said it was looked down upon.  Don't you want need to marry up?  LOL

 

Mushugina, "dating down" isn't just frowned upon in the Jewish faith.  Us Gentiles don't like it either!!

 

Up yours, you classist goyim. :roll:

 

Sorry, that was inaccurate - you SINGLE classist goyim!  :-P

 

For the most part, I don't think that's true. There's plenty of wealthy or upper middle class people who are with a partner who makes really modest income.

  Don't you want need to marry up?  LOL

 

 

I want to be a lawyer (If I can ever make it that far). I wouldn't mind being with someone who makes half as much as I do as long as they're somewhat educated, intelligent, good looking. Though the thought of marrying a woman that's a doctor, lawyer, exec, etc is appealing, if I'm not attracted to the person in other ways, forget about it. I think everyone would prefer to "marry up" but it's not the most important thing. I can see how the "breadwinner" would always be skeptical that the person they're with is just with them for the money. I'm sure it's a big issue for some people.

I want to be a lawyer (If I can ever make it that far). I wouldn't mind being with someone who makes half as much as I do as long as they're somewhat educated, intelligent, good looking. Though the thought of marrying a woman that's a doctor, lawyer, exec, etc is appealing, if I'm not attracted to the person in other ways, forget about it. I think everyone would prefer to "marry up" but it's not the most important thing. I can see how the "breadwinner" would always be skeptical that the person they're with is just with them for the money. I'm sure it's a big issue for some people.

 

David the ambulance chaser!  I can see you in a "binder & binder" commercial now!  LOL 

 

I hear you and of course you kids know I'm kidding (I'm having a KOOW day).  Unless you're a gold digger or a social climber in a place like phoenix where old dudes are always trying to get with young chick, then you ok.

 

The guy I recently broke up with is the only person I've ever dated that was in a similar salary range as me.  Personally, I like blue collar dudes.  My first partner was a cop.  A guy I sort of liked when I first moved to NYC was a cable installer.  It all about who makes you happy and with each person what they find attractive about someone else is taste specific.

I want to be a lawyer (If I can ever make it that far). I wouldn't mind being with someone who makes half as much as I do as long as they're somewhat educated, intelligent, good looking. Though the thought of marrying a woman that's a doctor, lawyer, exec, etc is appealing, if I'm not attracted to the person in other ways, forget about it. I think everyone would prefer to "marry up" but it's not the most important thing. I can see how the "breadwinner" would always be skeptical that the person they're with is just with them for the money. I'm sure it's a big issue for some people.

 

David the ambulance chaser!  I can see you in a "binder & binder" commercial now!  LOL 

 

No, I would totally be that guy. Hehehehe

 

1. "Well who's representing her?"

2. "Swindler, Scheister, Preston and Associates"

*loud noise*

1. "Lets settle this one"

 

My current law firm is Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe!