^Yeah - that makes sense. And also as part of that multi-phased approach, it sounds like the main stakeholders are in agreement to invest in renovation/upgrades to the Convention Center prior to any future expansion. Presumably those upgrades would be done with a potential future expansion in mind. 

Would be great to see the Arch From the Albee Theater find a less ironic home.

Hamilton County, Cincinnati considering having 3CDC coordinate new convention hotel

By Chris Wetterich  –  Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier

 

Hamilton County commissioners and the Cincinnati City Council could take votes this week to appoint the Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. to oversee development of a new convention center hotel and the surrounding district.

 

Council unanimously advanced the measure last week, while commissioners discussed it publicly Tuesday.

 

Jeff Berding, the FC Cincinnati co-CEO leading the region’s efforts to land 2026 World Cup matches who also is chair of the Convention and Visitors Bureau, said Cincinnati’s bid would be improved if it could assure soccer’s governing body, FIFA, it is moving toward building a headquarters hotel by 2025.

 

more

County OKs 3CDC’s big new role in convention center hotel, surrounding area

 

Hamilton County commissioners approved a plan to appoint the Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. to manage development of a long-awaited, new convention center hotel and the surrounding district.

 

Commissioners Stephanie Summerow Dumas and Denise Driehaus approved the plan, while Commissioner Alicia Reece abstained, citing concerns over the scope of work being given to 3CDC and its potential effect on future, minority ownership of assets in the area.

 

The county’s action followed Cincinnati City Council’s unanimous vote Wednesday appointing 3CDC. All three commissioners are Democrats, with eight of the nine council members and Mayor Aftab Pureval also sharing that party affiliation.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/01/27/county-oks-3cdc.html

 

On 1/25/2022 at 7:49 PM, zsnyder said:

Would be great to see the Arch From the Albee Theater find a less ironic home.

I wish it could be relocated back to fountain square. Not sure in what manner or application, but it deserves to be back in its original location or general vicinity not tacked on the side of the Convention Center. 

1 hour ago, savadams13 said:

I wish it could be relocated back to fountain square. Not sure in what manner or application, but it deserves to be back in its original location or general vicinity not tacked on the side of the Convention Center. 

It's current orientation lacks any kind of exposure since there is no real viewshed from which to admire it. Also, I always thought it would look better if it was brought back to its original form with the signage at top. It could be modernized as a message board? The years after it was taken over by RKO when it had marquee style signage is handsome, but certainly lacks the whimsy of the original.

 

They should go big, 1000 rooms. 50-60 stories. Make it a defining part of the Skyline.

9 minutes ago, TheCOV said:

It's current orientation lacks any kind of exposure since there is no real viewshed from which to admire it. 

 

 

 

the viewshed is your rear-view mirror!

lets raise it up!

18 minutes ago, jack.c.amos said:

lets raise it up!

   Could be cool if the Foundry gained a tower and it was at the base of the tower above the existing podium overlooking the square again...

1 hour ago, jack.c.amos said:

lets raise it up!

That arch is an entry form, though. Putting it atop a tower makes it even more ironic.
At least they preserved that aspect of it (however poorly) in the convention center. 

how do you think the new convention center hotel should look? pick the shape, finish, cap, and height. and may your dreams come true.

Why is "Nati" a rectangle? 

 

Oh My God

^ Holy 1980. Where did you find that concept drawing? It appears the USBank building was not part of the equation at that point.

^^I would take that if we were able to keep the Gibson Hotel as well. 

Meanwhile at the Millennium...

 

 

 

12 hours ago, zsnyder said:

 

Oh My God

I actually kinda love this. Fountain Square is the spiritual center of our city and our region. We should be showcasing it, even to the point of getting a little gaudy with it.

 

The timing of this post is funny, because just this morning I was looking at Fountain Square on Google Earth, and was dreaming about how cool it would be if the Westin had an outdoor bar facing the square.

^If the Westin were developed today that design feature would be an automatic...practically a requirement.

Just a one more little pile. Should be completely gone within a week and then we'll see how fast they push to re-open Elm Street (my guess is not fast, or you know, like ever).

From a geometry/urbanist perspective... I don't like the idea of closing down that block... but I'm curious from folks who live or work around there. What has been the actual impact of that stretch of Elm being closed?

The sidewalk on the West side of Elm has remained open the whole time so I'm not sure the pedestrian impact can be measured. From a driving perspective, the only downtown exits on I-75 Northbound are 2nd and 5th, where you can no longer just shoot up Elm to get to OTR so getting to destinations in OTR requires more circuitous routes. Handzy just closed their store on 4th and I'm not sure how it and other businesses in that block were effected by this street closure but since it's Northbound I don't think it has much honestly. 

 

Let's get an ArtWorks mural on that blank wall of 84.51 ASAP.

55 minutes ago, taestell said:

Let's get an ArtWorks mural on that blank wall of 84.51 ASAP.

In their presentations to the City and County, 3CDC has discussed creating a temporary public gathering/event space on the former Millenium site, so presumably they'll want to make it somewhat attractive. But that wall is huge so it would be quite expensive to paint it all... which might not make financial sense (ArtWorks could use that money for more long-lasting murals elsewhere) if it's gonna get covered up, hopefully in the somewhat near term. 

On 3/4/2022 at 1:40 PM, ucgrady said:

 

this view shows that it may be possible to add on more parking garage to the 84.51 parking garage 

 

here’s what I would do:

 

-build the hotel to the south of the convention center

-on the 84.51 block, add on say 1,400 spaces to the currently 1,100 space 84.51 garage. Add some number of apartments above the garage addition. Build out the 84.51 floor that is convertible into office space, into office space. If possible, Leave enough open space facing Elm Street for outdoor convention center space, that could support a relocated ice rink from Fountain Square during the wintertime. 

-tear down the 680 space 609 Elm St garage to the north and expand the convention center building itself across 6th street in that direction.

 

i am very much against closing Elm for expanding the convention center building itself, but I would be open to a possibility where Elm becomes outdoor convention center space, that pedestrians and cyclists could still pass through, closed off to vehicles part of the time. Seems to me a space like that could be a destination in and of itself, rather than a great big barrier dividing downtown like expanding the building itself across Elm would do.

 

 

According to today's Business Courier article, now that demo is done they are working to get Elm open ASAP and they have "ordered a fence and when the debris is removed, the ground will be covered with sod and sprinklers to get grass to grow." I'm glad it won't be surface parking like when McAlpins was demolished but having a green field in downtown will be weird too. I really hope there is more going on behind the scenes and this doesn't sit vacant for years. Also why grass? Grass has to be mowed, and it's being fenced off anyway so why not just throw down wildflower seeds or something that doesn't need to be maintained.

41 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

Also why grass? Grass has to be mowed, and it's being fenced off anyway so why not just throw down wildflower seeds or something that doesn't need to be maintained.

I've always assumed it has to do with Cincinnati building code. I have seen demo permits before stating that grass must be added if it will be vacant.

It's not exactly my hill to die on, and in the case of this site it hopefully wont be vacant long, but the city should require wildflowers/milkweed. It would be better all around and not require any maintenance for the property owner. #savethebees #milkweedformonarchs

I believe its going to be grass and 'managed' by 3CDC for the time being and try to incorporate it with programming at the existing convention center? 

On 3/4/2022 at 2:08 PM, jwulsin said:

From a geometry/urbanist perspective... I don't like the idea of closing down that block... but I'm curious from folks who live or work around there. What has been the actual impact of that stretch of Elm being closed?

 I live off of 600 block of Race and the only real impact personally was having to walk another block if I had to get over to west side of Fourth. If something was going on at the convention center and elm was shut down you would see confused people on the north side on finding the entrance.

 

FB's (former Rusconis) is still shutdown I believe due to the noise

3CDC WORKS THE ROOM

As Cincinnati loses out on millions each year for lack of a headquarters hotel, 3CDC sets its sights on new convention district.

 

When Cincinnati reflects on its signature redevelopment and rehabilitation projects over the past two decades, Fountain Square, Over-the-Rhine and Music Hall, among them, there’s one common denominator — the Cincinnati Center City Development Corp.

 

After being appointed by the city and county earlier this year, the nonprofit is again poised to lead the most important downtown project thus far this decade, the construction of a new headquarters hotel to replace the former Millennium Hotel at 150 W. Fifth St. But the clock is ticking if the region hopes to land the 2026 World Cup games. Cincinnati won’t be a stage for soccer’s biggest event without it.

 

While the pandemic has hammered the convention business nationwide, even before the Millennium was closed and demolished, its rooms and facilities were considered well below the industry standard in terms of quality and amenities. Now the region is further hampered by the lack of a headquarters hotel, which would allow major conventions and meetings to put all participants under a single roof at a set price.

 

Without the competitive advantage of such efficiency, the area has lost tens of millions of dollars per year. What another city accomplishes with a single hotel, it can take 10 hotels in Cincinnati to match.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/03/18/3cdcs-plan-for-convention-center-hotel.html

 

4 hours ago, ColDayMan said:

3CDC WORKS THE ROOM

As Cincinnati loses out on millions each year for lack of a headquarters hotel, 3CDC sets its sights on new convention district.

 

When Cincinnati reflects on its signature redevelopment and rehabilitation projects over the past two decades, Fountain Square, Over-the-Rhine and Music Hall, among them, there’s one common denominator — the Cincinnati Center City Development Corp.

 

After being appointed by the city and county earlier this year, the nonprofit is again poised to lead the most important downtown project thus far this decade, the construction of a new headquarters hotel to replace the former Millennium Hotel at 150 W. Fifth St. But the clock is ticking if the region hopes to land the 2026 World Cup games. Cincinnati won’t be a stage for soccer’s biggest event without it.

 

While the pandemic has hammered the convention business nationwide, even before the Millennium was closed and demolished, its rooms and facilities were considered well below the industry standard in terms of quality and amenities. Now the region is further hampered by the lack of a headquarters hotel, which would allow major conventions and meetings to put all participants under a single roof at a set price.

 

Without the competitive advantage of such efficiency, the area has lost tens of millions of dollars per year. What another city accomplishes with a single hotel, it can take 10 hotels in Cincinnati to match.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/03/18/3cdcs-plan-for-convention-center-hotel.html

 

Some exciting stuff here. WIth 3CDC leading the charge to not only build a hotel and expand the convention center, we can expect this area of town to finally get the attention it deserves. Article even mentions that Leeper is considering a westward expansion of the convention center with a trenched I75, really encouraging seeing that mentioned by a key player, even if it's still a long shot.

26 minutes ago, dnymck said:

Some exciting stuff here. WIth 3CDC leading the charge to not only build a hotel and expand the convention center, we can expect this area of town to finally get the attention it deserves. Article even mentions that Leeper is considering a westward expansion of the convention center with a trenched I75, really encouraging seeing that mentioned by a key player, even if it's still a long shot.

Let’s just hope that mock up photo isn’t what actually gets built. 

1 minute ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

Let’s just hope that mock up photo isn’t what actually gets built. 

I'm hoping that was made in house by a BusCourier staffer. Not that the Millennium was an architectural gem but I want something of equal stature at the very least. That thing is too stubby. 

3CDC CEO: 'We need to think boldly' about convention center hotel

By Chris Wetterich  –  Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier

 

Editor's note: This Q&A was included as part of the Courier's weekly print edition on the future of downtown convention center hotel. You can read this week's cover story here.

 

Steve Leeper is no stranger to big projects. He led Pittsburgh’s Sports and Exhibition Authority through construction of new baseball and football stadiums as well as a brand-new convention center. As CEO of Cincinnati Center City Development Corp., he spoke to the Business Courier for the first time in detail about his organization’s role in overseeing the construction of downtown’s new headquarters hotel, the surrounding convention district, and the advice he plans to give city and county leadership for steering the project. The following conversation has been edited for length and clarity.

 

You had some experience developing this kind of project in Pittsburgh. What lessons did you learn that you’d apply here? We need to think boldly. In the case of the Pittsburgh convention center, we contemplated keeping the former convention center in place and expanding. (But) it was not an asset worth retaining. We said, “We’re going to bite the bullet,” (and) we were out of the convention business for 18 months.

 

MORE

With interest rates rising, the clock is ticking on the $53 million borrowed to buy the Millennium

 

It’s been two years since the Port of Greater Cincinnati borrowed $53 million to buy and demolish downtown’s aging Millennium Hotel, with the hope of quickly coming up with a replacement that would pay for a new hotel and also refinance that debt into one package.

 

The pandemic derailed those plans and also greatly impacted the revenue source set aside to repay the bonds – the Hamilton County portion of the local hotel tax.

 

The bonds mature in 2023, and the Port has been paying interest only on the debt. It can extend the notes, but with interest rates likely rising as the Federal Reserve acts to curb high inflation, officials have begun discussing refinancing them for the long term now, which would likely include payments on the principal. The Fed raised its benchmark rate by 25 basis points last week, with six more increases likely this year.

 

Decisions about the hotel tax involve multiple public bodies. The Convention Facilities Authority, a public body that oversees the Duke Energy Convention Center and the Sharonville Convention Center, had to agree to spend a portion of the county’s share of the hotel tax on the Millennium site. The city and count

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/03/21/millennium-borrowed-money.html

 

On 3/18/2022 at 1:13 PM, dnymck said:

Article even mentions that Leeper is considering a westward expansion of the convention center with a trenched I75

I didn't realize how much I-75 already is sitting in a 20' trench. On the west side of I-75, the UPS Hub sits at 550'. On the east side, the convention center also sits at ~550'. I-75 drops down ~20' to 530'.  One upside of the "spaghetti soup" layout is that there seems to be plenty of empty space between the lanes to add support structures for a cap / building foundation.

 

 

If the convention center expands eastward onto the Millenium site, it'll gain at most 300'. If they expand west, here's what the 300' expansion would look like. This shows they could expand much more than 300' to the west, if they can figure out how to bridge over the overpasses (especially the connection from I-71 to westbound 6th St). If I had to pick, I'd rather lose that block of Central Ave than the block of Elm St between 5th and 6th.

 

 

Edited March 28, 20223 yr by jwulsin

11 minutes ago, jwulsin said:

I didn't realize how much I-75 already is sitting in a 20' trench. On the west side of I-75, the UPS Hub sits at 550'. On the east side, the convention center also sits at ~550'. I-75 drops down ~20' to 530'.  One upside of the "spaghetti soup" layout is that there seems to be plenty of empty space between the lanes to add support structures for a cap / building foundation.

 

 

If the convention center expands eastward onto the Millenium site, it'll gain at most 300'. If they expand west, here's what the 300' expansion would look like. This shows they could expand much more than 300' to the west, if they can figure out how to bridge over the overpasses (especially the connection from I-71 to westbound 6th St). If I had to pick, I'd rather lose that block of Central Ave than the block of Elm St between 5th and 6th.

 

 

With the Old BSB being for FWW/71 traffic, they really would not need the amount of space for the lanes for on/off ramps as most of that access now moves to the KY Side, correct?

I know I'm a broken record on this forum, but an equivalent of FWW on the west side of downtown would be amazing for condensing lanes, recreating the old street grid and creating new developable land with enough space for both expanding the convention center AND building a new arena. And as you pointed out, the trench is already there, we just need to update the BSB plan to try and minimize the footprint by utilizing frontage roads (like 2nd and 3rd are used at FWW) instead of creating big swoopy exit/entrance ramps. 

Logistically, how do you build a new sunken highway at the exact footprint of the current highway? 

 

Without shutting down 75 entirely for years to demolish the existing highway and build a new one, I don't see how it's possible. It at least appears that this would be over the exact spot of the existing highway. I fully agree this would be a great tool to redevelop downtown, though.

Isn't I-75 already kind of sunken?

5 minutes ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

Isn't I-75 already kind of sunken?

 

I would say it is sunken between about 5th and Ezzard Charles, but in order to build over the highway and constrict the area it takes up to make a tighter street grid above, I imagine a lot of geotechnical work would have to be done, and the entire road surface would likely need to be removed in the process.

I was a teenager when FWW was redone so I have no memory of how it was done, but it must have had a similar complicated logistics since the reduced right of way was there the whole time that they built the floodwall/transit tunnel to the south. 

^ I remember the special FWW2000 graphics that Channel 12 displayed on screen during their updates on the project.

The group that put that rendering out has run it by several traffic engineers and they said it's doable. The current highway is sunk 20 ft below street level at 5th street. There is a lot of new land area between a FWW West and downtown (about 28 acres) for temporary detours and  ramp reconfigurations.

 

However, the point of that drawing is to suggest something better than what is proposed can and should be done. 

21 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

With the Old BSB being for FWW/71 traffic, they really would not need the amount of space for the lanes for on/off ramps as most of that access now moves to the KY Side, correct?

 

Agreed. I think there is way too many connections going on in that interchange. There's two on ramps to 75, two blocks away from each other currently for example.

 

I remember reading somewhere that looking at the interstates around here, they built way too many ramps, which is a reason for some of the traffic backups that happen daily.

8 hours ago, ucgrady said:

I was a teenager when FWW was redone so I have no memory of how it was done, but it must have had a similar complicated logistics since the reduced right of way was there the whole time that they built the floodwall/transit tunnel to the south. 

They did not shut the highway down. The biggest key was eliminating the exits. You used to be able to exit on Pete rose way and 3rd street. Once that was done they were able to create some temporary lanes for traffic while they worked on reclaiming land. It certainly was a complex project. 
if you do that to 75 you would probably need to eliminate a number of on ramps over off 6th street and 4th street

I wouldn't be surprised if we see a cantilevered convention center expansion proposed at some point. Much like the Lawrence Convention Center in Pittsburgh: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4456694,-79.9984753,3a,75y,63.09h,103.79t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1srv7IbFiKh1CBBJLe6grr7Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

2 hours ago, Miami-Erie said:

I wouldn't be surprised if we see a cantilevered convention center expansion proposed at some point. Much like the Lawrence Convention Center in Pittsburgh: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4456694,-79.9984753,3a,75y,63.09h,103.79t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1srv7IbFiKh1CBBJLe6grr7Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Really? In which direction do you think they would build cantilevers, and how much extra space could be gained? The upper floors are already cantilevered out towards Central Ave. I'm not sure where else you would add cantilevers that would have much impact. It looks like the cantilevers in Pittsburgh add only about 30' of additional space (approximately the width of 3 lanes based on streetview). My (limited) understanding is that adding additional ballroom/meeting space can be accomplished much more effectively with an adjacent hotel. The main challenge is expanding the exhibit hall space. Doesn't seem to me like cantilevers would be a good use of whatever budget is available for upgrades/expansions.

 

Here are the current floors plans. Ground level (exhibit halls):

 

2nd floor (meeting rooms):

 

3rd floor (ballrooms):