5 hours ago, Miami-Erie said:

I wouldn't be surprised if we see a cantilevered convention center expansion proposed at some point. Much like the Lawrence Convention Center in Pittsburgh: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4456694,-79.9984753,3a,75y,63.09h,103.79t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1srv7IbFiKh1CBBJLe6grr7Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

We certainly dont want to imitate Pittsburgh, lol

 

Actually, per @jwulsin I cant see how a cantilever would be of much benefit. The goal is to enlarge the exhibition space and that is on ground level. 

I wonder, if a renovation project could move the main exhibition area to a fully built-out second level. Then an expansion could bridge out over any street in any direction. How much would that cost and how long would it have to stay closed for?

Would it not be more economically feasible to build "up" vs. "out"? I have managed several large events in the David L. Lawrence Center in Pittsburgh and the multi-levels work fine. I don't understand the obsession with street level only convention centers here.

Just an opinion and observation.

You get more shows with a big room than you do with multiple smaller rooms.

That's what Seattle is doing/did...

 

pompi...dou it.

On 4/4/2022 at 5:05 PM, Brutus_buckeye said:

We certainly dont want to imitate Pittsburgh, lol

 

Actually, per @jwulsin I cant see how a cantilever would be of much benefit. The goal is to enlarge the exhibition space and that is on ground level. 

 

Not saying we want to. But I would assume it would be cantilevered over Central Ave.

On 4/4/2022 at 6:55 PM, jvarney1 said:

Would it not be more economically feasible to build "up" vs. "out"? I have managed several large events in the David L. Lawrence Center in Pittsburgh and the multi-levels work fine. I don't understand the obsession with street level only convention centers here.

Just an opinion and observation.

 

Good point here. It certainly can go up. A pro is that no surrounding streets would be lost if they extend the upper floors.

9 minutes ago, Miami-Erie said:

 

Not saying we want to. But I would assume it would be cantilevered over Central Ave.

I was just teasing about the Pittsburgh comment :)

 

I agree with you about building up if they are looking for multiple convention rooms and spaces. If they need contiguous space, that obviously creates an issue to go over Central Ave.

I'm obviously not an engineer, but why can't an upper floor be a contiguous space? What says that all upper floors need to be just smaller rooms/spaces? The main ballroom at the David L. Lawrence Center is on the second level.

My main point is to avoid waiting, possibly years, for processes to be approved, or denied, building over streets/interstates. Not to mention the additional construction costs. Building "up" seems the most economically feasible.

 

Edited April 6, 20223 yr by jvarney1

6 minutes ago, jvarney1 said:

I'm obviously not an engineer, but why can't an upper floor be a contiguous space? What says that all upper floors need to be just smaller rooms/spaces? The main ballroom at the David L. Lawrence Center is on the second level.

My main point is to avoid waiting, possibly years, for processes to be approved, or denied, building over streets/interstates. Not to mention the additional construction costs. Building "up" seems the most economically feasible.

 

 

The main ballroom at Duke is also on the second floor. Philly convention center space is almost all on the second floor and it goes over two streets. But not sure we want to enclose more city streets like they have done here:

https://goo.gl/maps/A9JX3u7empMfQAqM6

Looks like grass and wide sidewalks are coming soon. This block feels so weird now and its funny that not that long ago it was flip flopped and the Millenium was sitting next the vacant McAlplins lot, now 84.51 is sitting next to vacant Millenium lot. I just hope they don't put a fence around this lawn so it's unusable like when the Dennison was knocked down.

35 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

Looks like grass and wide sidewalks are coming soon. This block feels so weird now and its funny that not that long ago it was flip flopped and the Millenium was sitting next the vacant McAlplins lot, now 84.51 is sitting next to vacant Millenium lot. I just hope they don't put a fence around this lawn so it's unusable like when the Dennison was knocked down.

 

Sooooo yesterday I heard from a decently reliable hotel source that the JW Marriott flag is coming to Cincinnati, this person was not sure if it was related to the convention center hotel project but I was sure loving that surprise bit in our convo.

I really hope this is not an empty lot in 5 years but I am not very optimistic about that. The focus is on getting the convention hotel done on the south lot and a lot is up in the air on the DECC expansion. 

Edited April 27, 20223 yr by wjh2

I would love to see a modern hotel tower like the JW in Indianapolis or the Hiltons in Cleveland or Columbus, but it does seem like momentum is for 5th & Plum now instead of the Millenium site shown above.

2 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

I would love to see a modern hotel tower like the JW in Indianapolis or the Hiltons in Cleveland or Columbus, but it does seem like momentum is for 5th & Plum now instead of the Millenium site shown above.

As long as they dont put cute white picket fencing up like they did at the Dennison site. Hopefully Artworks can do something with the wall and it would be too barren for long. I don't have faith in the regional leadership at the moment to get this hotel up off the ground. 

1 hour ago, 646empire said:

 

Sooooo yesterday I heard from a decently reliable hotel source that the JW Marriott flag is coming to Cincinnati, this person was not sure if it was related to the convention center hotel project but I was sure loving that surprise bit in our convo.

I heard it was going to a Red Roof Inn 

11 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

I heard it was going to a Red Roof Inn 

Haha I hope not! 

A JW Marriott would be an excellent addition. A Hilton tower next to the Convention Center combo like Columbus and Cleveland would be fine too - but how boring for all three downtowns to be so similar.

On 4/27/2022 at 2:35 PM, ucgrady said:

I just hope they don't put a fence around this lawn

And they are putting a 6 foot fence around the site as we speak...

2 hours ago, ucgrady said:

And they are putting a 6 foot fence around the site as we speak...

You sure this isn’t a construction fence in preparation for landscaping etc. I don’t think the lawn is in yet right?

No it's a black aluminum fence with spiked top. I was driving down Elm or I would've taken a picture. The sod is not in yet, though I'm hoping for wildflowers or something else besides maintenance / water intensive grass especially since it's fenced off.

13 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

No it's a black aluminum fence with spiked top. I was driving down Elm or I would've taken a picture. The sod is not in yet, though I'm hoping for wildflowers or something else besides maintenance / water intensive grass especially since it's fenced off.

im assuming they want to be able to lock things up at a certain time? Lol. I can see this lawn being a homeless base if not monitored that may have something to do with it. That’s going to be a pretty big fense to wrap the entire site, sheesh.

it’s around the former annex area as well

 

not pictured are the benches setup on 5th street side. would make a nice dog park 

A temporary dog park on part of this block would be a great amenity.

I would be worried about any "temporary" park being built on a lot downtown because when the time comes for it to be developed, NIMBYs will use the "loss" of the park as a reason to oppose whatever is going to replace it. I hate to be this cynical but you know it's true.

What about a gigantic Ferris wheel. 

4 hours ago, RJohnson said:

What about a gigantic Ferris wheel. 

 

Covid killed that fad...

 

3CDC: New convention headquarters hotel could be open by late 2025

Architects hired to study convention center needs

 

By: Evan Millward

Posted at 7:34 PM, May 17, 2022 

 

CINCINNATI — A new convention headquarters hotel in downtown Cincinnati could be open by late 2025, but it's not a guarantee. 3CDC laid out a possible new timeline for the hotel and told county commissioners about the need for renovations to the existing convention center on Tuesday.

The hotel - recommended to be about 800 rooms with a national brand - is "critical" to Cincinnati's ongoing FIFA World Cup bid for matches in summer 2026, according to the bid committee.

...

Leeper told commissioners Tuesday the plan would place the new hotel on the site of a surface parking lot owned by The Port just to the south of the convention center, instead of on the site of the former MIllennium Hotel to the east across Elm Street. The Millennium Hotel was demolished earlier this year.

...

He told commissioners the goal is to have a developer and agreement for the hotel by the end of the year, with construction starting in the first half of 2023. That would put the hotel on track to open in third quarter of 2025.

 

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/downtown/3cdc-new-convention-headquarters-hotel-could-be-open-by-late-2025

3CDC's presentation to the Hamilton County Commissioners is available to watch here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePpsfY8CfUo

 

 

4 hours ago, Miami-Erie said:

 

3CDC: New convention headquarters hotel could be open by late 2025

Architects hired to study convention center needs

 

By: Evan Millward

Posted at 7:34 PM, May 17, 2022 

 

CINCINNATI — A new convention headquarters hotel in downtown Cincinnati could be open by late 2025, but it's not a guarantee. 3CDC laid out a possible new timeline for the hotel and told county commissioners about the need for renovations to the existing convention center on Tuesday.

The hotel - recommended to be about 800 rooms with a national brand - is "critical" to Cincinnati's ongoing FIFA World Cup bid for matches in summer 2026, according to the bid committee.

...

Leeper told commissioners Tuesday the plan would place the new hotel on the site of a surface parking lot owned by The Port just to the south of the convention center, instead of on the site of the former MIllennium Hotel to the east across Elm Street. The Millennium Hotel was demolished earlier this year.

...

He told commissioners the goal is to have a developer and agreement for the hotel by the end of the year, with construction starting in the first half of 2023. That would put the hotel on track to open in third quarter of 2025.

 

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/downtown/3cdc-new-convention-headquarters-hotel-could-be-open-by-late-2025

Wow, this might actually happen without much of a gap. I figured that this would take longer than the new bridge with the way things work around here.

26 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Wow, this might actually happen without much of a gap. I figured that this would take longer than the new bridge with the way things work around here.

Yeah it’s definitely going to happen relatively fast as I mentioned way back pages ago lol. The city and county are in sync on this and 3CDC was the final sorta coordinating piece. A little nugget I heard after reaching out this morning was the developer is pretty much already known/selected and it’s now mostly about financing, design.

Edited May 18, 20223 yr by 646empire

I’m assuming they are going to build on the parking lot south of the convention center. Does this also include the convention place mall and the parking garage as well?

 

I would love to just see that whole section be a twin tower development with the parking lot being a 30-40 hotel story tower and the spot that the convention place mall is on be a 20-25  floor apartment tower.

11 minutes ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

I’m assuming they are going to build on the parking lot south of the convention center. Does this also include the convention place mall and the parking garage as well?

 

I would love to just see that whole section be a twin tower development with the parking lot being a 30-40 hotel story tower and the spot that the convention place mall is on be a 20-25  floor apartment tower.

It looks like the parking garage is privately owned.  The surface lot and convention place mall are owned by the city/county. 

6 minutes ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

I’m assuming they are going to build on the parking lot south of the convention center. Does this also include the convention place mall and the parking garage as well?

 

I would love to just see that whole section be a twin tower development with the parking lot being a 30-40 hotel story tower and the spot that the convention place mall is on be a 20-25  floor apartment tower.

Leeper clarified that the hotel would be on the northern portion of the surface lot to the south of the Convention Center. The hotel would not need all of that space though, and Leeper suggested that ~15,000 sq ft along Fourth St would be available for a separate development. 

 

The convention place mall was mentioned and that the Port is trying to get it demolished so that the site could be redeveloped. The privately-owned Whex Garage was mentioned as another potential piece of the puzzle, if it were to be acquired. 

 

Here's a sketch I created showing where the proposed hotel would go, based on Leeper's comments yesterday:

12 minutes ago, jwulsin said:

Leeper clarified that the hotel would be on the northern portion of the surface lot to the south of the Convention Center. The hotel would not need all of that space though, and Leeper suggested that ~15,000 sq ft along Fourth St would be available for a separate development. 

 

The convention place mall was mentioned and that the Port is trying to get it demolished so that the site could be redeveloped. The privately-owned Whex Garage was mentioned as another potential piece of the puzzle, if it were to be acquired. 

 

Here's a sketch I created showing where the proposed hotel would go, based on Leeper's comments yesterday:

Yeah I’m assuming they would have liked to place it right at the corner where convention place/garage is but I think they made the right decision by picking the site that’s  actually already owned and ready to go now.

^ You figure they would use the whole block just to create additional meeting space for large conventions. I guess they will still have that with the proposed footprint but it seems like you can never have enough options in the convention business.

Just now, Brutus_buckeye said:

^ You figure they would use the whole block just to create additional meeting space for large conventions. I guess they will still have that with the proposed footprint but it seems like you can never have enough options in the convention business.

Tru but I’ve walked past this site and it looks very large for a single hotel even a 800 room hotel. I suppose if you don’t want to go very vertical you could use the entire site but then the design may be forced to include long guest room corridors which I’m not a fan of.

8 hours ago, Miami-Erie said:

 

3CDC: New convention headquarters hotel could be open by late 2025

Architects hired to study convention center needs

 

By: Evan Millward

Posted at 7:34 PM, May 17, 2022 

 

CINCINNATI — A new convention headquarters hotel in downtown Cincinnati could be open by late 2025, but it's not a guarantee. 3CDC laid out a possible new timeline for the hotel and told county commissioners about the need for renovations to the existing convention center on Tuesday.

The hotel - recommended to be about 800 rooms with a national brand - is "critical" to Cincinnati's ongoing FIFA World Cup bid for matches in summer 2026, according to the bid committee.

...

Leeper told commissioners Tuesday the plan would place the new hotel on the site of a surface parking lot owned by The Port just to the south of the convention center, instead of on the site of the former MIllennium Hotel to the east across Elm Street. The Millennium Hotel was demolished earlier this year.

...

He told commissioners the goal is to have a developer and agreement for the hotel by the end of the year, with construction starting in the first half of 2023. That would put the hotel on track to open in third quarter of 2025.

 

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/downtown/3cdc-new-convention-headquarters-hotel-could-be-open-by-late-2025

On a not so good note, I’m hearing chatter that the FIFA bid is not looking good for Cincy. I hope somehow we get in BUT im hearing there will only be maybe 1 midsize-ish host city and Kansas City with its already completed new convention hotel has been gaining a little steam, and Nashville moving forward with a new Titans stadium adds more pressure on Cincys bid as well. We may still be a home base for a couple World Cup teams tho. On this topic even if not selected as a host city the hotel construction schedule will not change much at all.

Edited May 18, 20223 yr by 646empire

19 minutes ago, 646empire said:

On a not so good note, I’m hearing chatter that the FIFA bid is not looking good for Cincy. I hope somehow we get in BUT im hearing there will only be maybe 1 midsize-ish host city and Kansas City with its already completed new convention hotel has been gaining a little steam, and Nashville moving forward with a new Titans stadium adds more pressure on Cincys bid as well. We may still be a home base for a couple World Cup teams tho. On this topic even if not selected as a host city the hotel construction schedule will not change much at all.

How solid is Nashville's plan though? Do they have the financing all in place for the new stadium.

 

I am not surprised to hear this news. The hotel was going to be a major issue going forward. It would have been really helpful if they were a year ahead on this and had firm commitments in place already or even ground broken on the facility.

 

I've been hearing the same regarding Cincinnati's bid, but I've also heard that they likely won't pick Nashville's new stadium because it won't be ready in time for the World Cup. It isn't opening until the NFL season in 2026. Trusting it would be finished with months of time to prepare for the world cup would be extremely risky. 

2 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

How solid is Nashville's plan though? Do they have the financing all in place for the new stadium.

 

I am not surprised to hear this news. The hotel was going to be a major issue going forward. It would have been really helpful if they were a year ahead on this and had firm commitments in place already or even ground broken on the facility.

 

last I heard the state of Tennessee recently approved 500 million and the team is committing like 700 million. I think the city of Nashville is the last piece. Design should be ready in the Fall.

1 hour ago, ryanlammi said:

I've been hearing the same regarding Cincinnati's bid, but I've also heard that they likely won't pick Nashville's new stadium because it won't be ready in time for the World Cup. It isn't opening until the NFL season in 2026. Trusting it would be finished with months of time to prepare for the world cup would be extremely risky. 

Very risky, and no time to really break the venue in. Could be chaotic especially on the Food and Beverage/Hospitality side.

Wow, Hotels are getting amazingly expensive to build.

 

”Leeper’s estimate of $360 million to $370 million for a new hotel breaks down to about $450,000 per room. The cost is that high because of the amenities and other meeting spaces in the hotel.”

 

And as mentioned before I’ve heard they already have a developer in mind for this project. 

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/05/25/3cdc-update-on-convention-center-hotel.html

 

 

Edited May 25, 20223 yr by 646empire

3CDC selects firms to study more than $100M in upgrades to convention center

By Tom Demeropolis and Chris Wetterich  –  Cincinnati Business Courier

May 26, 2022

 

When Steve Leeper, CEO of Cincinnati Center City Development Corp., presented an update on the convention center hotel to Cincinnati City Council’s Equitable Growth and Housing Committee, he also provided plans for renovations to Duke Energy Convention Center.

 

3CDC has been tasked with coordinating and overseeing redevelopment of the convention center district in downtown Cincinnati. As it’s looking to help guide the process of replacing the former Millennium Hotel, it’s also looking at the status of the existing convention center.

 

MORE

Today they are laying down grass sod on the old Millenium site. I'm not sure about if the space will only be open for special events, or if it'll be open on a daily basis.

 

 

26 minutes ago, jwulsin said:

Today they are laying down grass sod on the old Millenium site. I'm not sure about if the space will only be open for special events, or if it'll be open on a daily basis.

 

 

Looks like a good place for 3CDC to do movie nights 

27 minutes ago, jwulsin said:

Today they are laying down grass sod on the old Millenium site. I'm not sure about if the space will only be open for special events, or if it'll be open on a daily basis.

 

 

I’m going to assume we’ll be seeing a mural on the 84.51 building and that space being part of Blink this fall. 

I give 3cdc the benefit of the doubt most of the time given their largely positive record in getting stuff done and most of it turning out pretty well.   I assume this is their way of Land banking this until they are ready to build whatever.  I guess its better than making it a parking lot, but it does seem weird to lay down grass here.

anyone know what is going on with this building? can’t see in the photo but at night you can see some of the floors are gutted