45 minutes ago, CincyIntheKnow said:

As far as I can tell they are beyond speculative, they are planning their "village" redevelopment around it for a year-round draw.

Yes, but again, for a project like that, until financing is realistically in place or at least a roadmap for financing an arena exists, it is not a realistic plan and another competing proposal can certainly come in and win out. 
 

 

Based on the latest response from ODOT, the Bridge Forward proposal is effectively dead.

1 hour ago, taestell said:

Based on the latest response from ODOT, the Bridge Forward proposal is effectively dead.

Bridge Forward is still possible and we are still working hard to get it done. ODOT released this without any input from us and the only serious objection was the grade which was caused by the 4th street bridge. The 4th street bridge was not included in one of the other designs ODOT was sent. ODOT disingenously pretended that wasn't there. 

 

It's still very much alive. In fact we are meeting tonight. What we've heard from all over is that without public pressure on the city the city is kinda stuck on what to do. 

 

We are here to start that conversation. And that conversation is gaining steam. What we need is community members and urbanists who see what is happening with the bridge approach. See how it's effectively the same as 1963. And demand something better. If any of you want to help us out, please dm me. 

 

Our activism and work is just beginning and won't be stopped by ODOT. 

6 hours ago, CincyIntheKnow said:

^ The project is north of the stadium. In planning and design stage.

Considering they're not planning to knock down the old ballet building I don't think there's enough land to build an arena there. 

Edited October 19, 20222 yr by Cincy513

To learn more about the Bridge Forward project, please visit: https://www.bridge-forward.org/

 

If you'd like to get involved, please send me or stashua123 a direct message, or show up to one of our meetings. They are announced via our newsletter: https://mailchi.mp/6d073d76f025/bridge-forward-updates

 

We also have a form to email representatives. We've gotten feedback that these letters are starting to make an impact, and more will be helpful. https://actionnetwork.org/letters/brent-spence-bridge-design-improvements

3 hours ago, Cincy513 said:

Considering they're not planning to knock down the old ballet building I don't think there's enough land to build an arena there. 

This may be outdated information.

4 hours ago, Cincy513 said:

Considering they're not planning to knock down the old ballet building I don't think there's enough land to build an arena there. 

I wouldn’t think that they would want to put another arena right next to TQL especially with the new hotel being right next to the stadium. They also have a plan to turn the building attached to the old ballet into offices. 

Shouldn't the Brent Spence discussion be on moved to that thread under roadway discussion on the transportation forum.   ODOT posted additional info and base mapping on its procurement page located at https://www.dot.state.oh.us/Divisions/ConstructionMgt/design-build/bsb-project-procurement/Pages/default.aspx.  Plan to select the design build team in May of 2023 after soliciting qualifications in January.  

On 10/19/2022 at 1:36 PM, CincyIntheKnow said:

Yes. If Aftab can rally support behind it. Historically, downtown landowners have been against increasing competition (other developable land)

Even without the Bridge Forward Plan which is probably not realistic and untenable in many cases, there is still some land that will be able to be reclaimed on that side of downtown once the bridge is built.  Originally, ODOT claimed an even larger footprint than they use now, The new designs have them vacating this footprint and opening up space to expand westward some even without the ambitious BridgeForward plan. 

Bridge Forward is game changing, and ODOT's response about the grade being too step seems wildly inaccurate to me.   It is not as if 75 has to drop from Bridge height to below grade in one block.  It could take as many blocks as it needs up to 7th.  You just might have to eliminate a couple of the cross streets at 4th,5th.  Maybe you would not ever be able to put caps over it.  But you could still fit 75 in that amount of space, and open up more land.     I highly doubt they looked at it in any serious manner.

 

If you read this forum and you haven't already signed up with Bridge Forward, and used their forms to send emails to your city/state/fed elected representatives, Please do so.   This is our one and only chance.

2 hours ago, JoeHarmon said:

If you read this forum and you haven't already signed up with Bridge Forward, and used their forms to send emails to your city/state/fed elected representatives, Please do so.   This is our one and only chance.

The one challenge the Bridge Forward plan is dealing with or will have to overcome, and is the perception that if people push to reclaim the land as proposed in Bridge Forward, that it will delay the construction of the new BSB. I think for many people, the perception that this could delay construction of the new BSB by a few years would be a deal breaker even though they would otherwise be supportive of the Bridge Forward concept. Even if the delay narrative is not accurate, that is going to be a challenge the Bridge Forward people will need to deal with 

11 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

The one challenge the Bridge Forward plan is dealing with or will have to overcome, and is the perception that if people push to reclaim the land as proposed in Bridge Forward, that it will delay the construction of the new BSB. I think for many people, the perception that this could delay construction of the new BSB by a few years would be a deal breaker even though they would otherwise be supportive of the Bridge Forward concept. Even if the delay narrative is not accurate, that is going to be a challenge the Bridge Forward people will need to deal with 

 

I hear what you're saying.   I believe in addition to reclaiming land, the narrative we need to get the local news talking about it how confusing the current set of ramps are.  "Tonight on Channel 9, have you lived in Cincinnati your whole life and still get confused by the spiperweb of I-75 entrance and exit ramps downtown?  I know I do.  A new plan will streamline and simplify all that to create safer driving situations while opening new land for development."   etc

3 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

The one challenge the Bridge Forward plan is dealing with or will have to overcome, and is the perception that if people push to reclaim the land as proposed in Bridge Forward, that it will delay the construction of the new BSB. I think for many people, the perception that this could delay construction of the new BSB by a few years would be a deal breaker even though they would otherwise be supportive of the Bridge Forward concept. Even if the delay narrative is not accurate, that is going to be a challenge the Bridge Forward people will need to deal with 

Yeah that is one thing. And it's also false because of progressive design build being in the project as of August. Which makes design much more fluid than a typical DB. 

 

Also if a mod feels this is clogging up this can be moved to brent spence bridge topic

Based on ODOT 2021 traffic counts the I-75 access  ramps for 5th -9th Streets had less than 10k average daily traffic  combined in 2021.    While Covid had an impact I think these numbers,

likely reflect the new normal with significantly less office employment in the CBD.  Seems like the current number of interstate access points could be consolidated.

Isn't the RFP for the hotel project due in today? 

 

I wonder how long it will take for them to announce the results? Curious to see how many parties are going to bid on this project?

2 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Isn't the RFP for the hotel project due in today? 

 

I wonder how long it will take for them to announce the results? Curious to see how many parties are going to bid on this project?

I’m hearing pretty fast, and they have already have a preferred entry.

2 minutes ago, 646empire said:

I’m hearing pretty fast, and they have already have a preferred entry.

So we may hear some news trickle out in the next 7-10 days?

5 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

So we may hear some news trickle out in the next 7-10 days?

As long as there isnt any bizarre language or upfront request expectations from the hospitality developers, 3CDC will make recommendations.  Then a couple of other different parties will need to vote on it. Id say we will hear something before Thanksgiving honestly. With the election about two weeks away it could be sped up to get something agreed upon. 

8 minutes ago, savadams13 said:

Id say we will hear something before Thanksgiving honestly.

Im thinking the same 

14 minutes ago, savadams13 said:

With the election about two weeks away it could be sped up to get something agreed upon. 

Why would the election matter? It does not concern city council. The only potential change would be Smitherman beating Dumas and I cant see how he would throw up much of a roadblock on the hotel?

1 hour ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Why would the election matter? It does not concern city council. The only potential change would be Smitherman beating Dumas and I cant see how he would throw up much of a roadblock on the hotel?

Smitherman is slime, he is always looking for a handout. If he beats Dumas, I can imagine him wanting to take "time" to review everything. He is good at throwing up roadblocks. 

5 minutes ago, savadams13 said:

Smitherman is slime, he is always looking for a handout. If he beats Dumas, I can imagine him wanting to take "time" to review everything. He is good at throwing up roadblocks. 

Luckily there is a 0% chance he wins.

2 hours ago, GHOST TRACKS said:

Based on ODOT 2021 traffic counts the I-75 access  ramps for 5th -9th Streets had less than 10k average daily traffic  combined in 2021.    While Covid had an impact I think these numbers,

likely reflect the new normal with significantly less office employment in the CBD.  Seems like the current number of interstate access points could be consolidated.

Just had a thread about this on twitter lol

 

`it has taken 20 years for a bridge that doesn''t exist. So I'm guessing the hotel project will take another 15 or so. Someone will say it should be 5 stories and no taller. Another will say it doesn't fit the overall look of the west side of town and another will say, you're giving that prime location away to a hotel? Finally, a 5 story 2x4 wood structure will be built that looks a lot like all the other 5 story apartment buildings in town. All hail the spagetti monster and raptor jesus. Oh, and that serpentine monster/convention center will be moved to Covington.

 

18 hours ago, stashua123 said:

Just had a thread about this on twitter lol

I had a strong feeling that these would end up low. I asked ODOT about this on their comment form as to why there are so many ramps downtown, and why they were continuing to keep them. You can get on 75N every other block downtown.

Let’s remember this is the Convention Center and Hotel Thread. 

26 minutes ago, 646empire said:

Let’s remember this is the Convention Center and Hotel Thread. 

I think if those ramps are removed along central, there could be use of the outdoor area as a multifunction space. If the freeway remains uncapped, maybe relocate the Cincinnati sign onto grade there, facing towards the highway.

1 hour ago, RealAdamP said:

I think if those ramps are removed along central, there could be use of the outdoor area as a multifunction space. If the freeway remains uncapped, maybe relocate the Cincinnati sign onto grade there, facing towards the highway.

The current Convention Center plan already has a multifunction outdoor space on the millennium site so that’s not going to be considered. I think we are trying way too hard to conflate the Brent Spence project with the convention center redevelopment and I can tell you they are being planned very separate as they should in my opinion. The Brent Spence and these “ramp” ideas are a LONGGG ways off from being completed 10+ maybe even 15 years, The Convention Center and Hotel are imminent. I get looking ahead but we need to keep some of these ideas in perspective timeline wise.

3CDC aims to buy Whex Garage, another key piece of convention center district

By Chris Wetterich  –  Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier

Oct 28, 2022

 

Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. has a purchase agreement for the Whex Garage just south of Duke Energy Convention Center, another important piece of property as the nonprofit developer, city, county and other stakeholders try to create a vibrant district around it.

 

3CDC declined to say what it will pay for the garage at 212 W. Fourth St. or what the funding source will be. The Hamilton County auditor lists the market value at $5.6 million, with the land being worth $3.5 million and the garage valued at $2.1 million.

 

The six-story parking garage and the underlying land are owned by Carell Ohio LLC, a company that shares a Nashville address with the Ann and Monroe Carell Family Fund. The 501(c)3 fund had $23 million in assets as of the end of 2019, according to tax records. The company owns seven other parcels worth millions in the city, according to Hamilton County auditor records.

 

MORE

The concern that the new plans don’t expand the footprint of continuous space is really a non issue.  The number of conventions that need more contiguous space than we have is minimal.  Rather, what we need are more event spaces that are in the close vicinity.  Many of these large conventions are supplemented with various participant organizations hosting receptions and events in conjunction with the big event.  This plan seems to include a lot of spaces south of 5th that will have these event spaces.  Obviously the new hotel will have ample event space.  I really hope the saks space becomes an event center.  These spaces will make our convention proposition much more attraction.

 

as for the park remaining, I think it’s a great idea.  It gives an added space for iniquity happy hours and events, especially with the ability to shut down elm street. I went to a big convention in Frankfurt (they have an amazing convention facility) and the outdoor happy hour was fantastic.  If you include the roof too, it really gives us some nice outdoor options.

There was some good stuff from today's meeting I'll go back and add if I have time (lodging tax comeback, phased development plan) but here's the gist from today..

 

 

Developers submit proposals for Cincinnati’s new convention center hotel

https://www.fox19.com/2022/11/02/developers-submit-proposals-cincinnatis-new-convention-center-hotel/

 

1 hour ago, Pdrome513 said:

There was some good stuff from today's meeting I'll go back and add if I have time (lodging tax comeback, phased development plan) but here's the gist from today..

 

 

Developers submit proposals for Cincinnati’s new convention center hotel

https://www.fox19.com/2022/11/02/developers-submit-proposals-cincinnatis-new-convention-center-hotel/

 

Funny NewCrest Image is a bidder, they are the developer of the failed fourth and walnut dual Hilton project, not a fan.

Funny NewCrest Image is a bidder, they are the developer of the failed fourth and walnut dual Hilton project, not a fan.

That was my least favorite design as well. I am liking the Matthews design.


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5 minutes ago, lobanio0 said:

That was my least favorite design as well. I am liking the Matthews design.


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Interesting, I’m feeling Portman a lot. My gut tells me it will be Portman or Inland. I noticed Inland is the only one that has an actual hotel brand attached to the design (Lowes).

Edited November 2, 20222 yr by 646empire

I’d Say Portman is my least favorite of the designs followed by NewCrest. Inland being my favorite. Reasoning behind Portman is that to me it doesn’t really standout. Just kinda looks like all the other big hotels they are building around the US and looks to be the shortest of all the designs. 
 

I want whatever we build to be at least as high as the old Millenium hotel.

It's hard to tell from the render but I walk through that parking lot quite a bit and Portman seems like it would be massive. I'm curious what the expected square footage would be.

10 hours ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

I’d Say Portman is my least favorite of the designs followed by NewCrest. Inland being my favorite. Reasoning behind Portman is that to me it doesn’t really standout. Just kinda looks like all the other big hotels they are building around the US and looks to be the shortest of all the designs. 
 

I want whatever we build to be at least as high as the old Millenium hotel.

I like Matthews because it provides some height to the Skyline, but I keep coming back to the Portman design because of how it integrates on the bottom with the neighborhood. I am a bit torn. If Portman were about 10 stories taller I would think they would be the best hands down. 

 

These are all just preliminary renderings, correct? Once a developer is selected, they'll go through a design process and come up with something else. I think this is just to show a general idea for where the developer would want to take the project.

10 hours ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

I’d Say Portman is my least favorite of the designs followed by NewCrest. Inland being my favorite. Reasoning behind Portman is that to me it doesn’t really standout. Just kinda looks like all the other big hotels they are building around the US and looks to be the shortest of all the designs. 
 

I want whatever we build to be at least as high as the old Millenium hotel.

Something about Newcrest appeals to me. Those rounded edges feel unique to the city, even though they're kind of a dated style. I know the hotel the next block over is a pacman, but it has a different style in mind compared to this.

34 minutes ago, ink said:

These are all just preliminary renderings, correct? Once a developer is selected, they'll go through a design process and come up with something else. I think this is just to show a general idea for where the developer would want to take the project.

True but I think the designs will stay In the realm of what we see. I don’t think the developers will present a totally different design after being selected.

3CDC reveals headquarters hotel developers as cost estimate rises

 

The Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. unveiled four potential developers for the new, 800-room convention center hotel on Tuesday, which 3CDC CEO Steve Leeper now estimates will cost $500 million.

That’s up from a number he floated in May — $360 million.

 

The potential developers are Atlanta-based Portman, Dallas-based Matthews Southwest, Westminster, Colo.-based Inland Pacific Company and Grapevine, Texas-based Newcrest Image. The region plans to put the new hotel south of the convention center in a vacant parking lot along Fifth Street.

 

3CDC got those four expressions of interest in the project from national developers and they were sufficient enough for all to be asked for a formal proposal, which the nonprofit developer received last week. All four will be interviewed this month by 3CDC, the city, the county, Visit Cincy, the Port of Greater Cincinnati Development Authority, the Cincinnati Business Committee, the Cincinnati USA Regional Chamber and the Greater Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky African American Chamber.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/11/02/convention-hotel-renderings-cost-estimate.html

 

Portman

 

Matthews

 

Inland

 

Newcrest

Stay away from Newcrest Image, that team/company will not be the best candidate. In speaking of design. The Matthew Southwest design, appeals the most to me, nice height, the angled west wall is unique and doesnt match any other buildings downtown. We need some height on this side of downtown. The rest feel like a safe boring conservative design. I want Hilton Cleveland or Columbus, give me something sexy, not ho hum. 

 

 

Edited November 2, 20222 yr by savadams13

1 hour ago, savadams13 said:

Stay away from Newcrest Image, that team/company will not be the best candidate. In speaking of design. The Matthew Southwest design, appeals the most to me, nice height, the angled west wall is unique and doesnt match any other buildings downtown. We need some height on this side of downtown. The rest feel like a safe boring conservative design. I want Hilton Cleveland or Columbus, give me something sexy, not ho hum. 

 

 

Do the renderings contain a height or list potential number of stories? I was not sure. It seems the Matthews design is taller than the Portman one but is that really the case or more of just how the rendering appears?

The Schwiess doors that allow for a fully open facade to Elm street for outdoor events is awesome. I think the outdoor rooftop space is redundant with the ground level park, and they should just put a ballroom/event room up there if the structure is capable of holding an occupancy space anyway.

 

As far as the hotels go, I think at this point the decision should be based the developer and hotel flag associated. With a good quality developer group the height, aesthetics and ground floor interaction will work itself out.  

2 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Do the renderings contain a height or list potential number of stories? I was not sure. It seems the Matthews design is taller than the Portman one but is that really the case or more of just how the rendering appears?

I’m just going off of the possible floor count in the photos and comparing it to that of The Hyatt (23 floors at 260 ft).

 

Portman: 26-28 floors (300-340 ft)

Matthews: 30-32 floors (350-450 ft)

Inland: 30-32 floors (350-450 ft)

NewCrest: 28-32 floors (340-400) 

 

Matthews was difficult due to the angle of the photo but looks to be considerably taller than the Hyatt. I’m just assuming the same floor count with Inland will be roughly the same height. 

The Matthews design will have a large south/north view allowing spectacular views of the Ohio River and stadiums. Plus, a little more impact on the overall skyline coming down the cut in the hill. That's a bonus in my mind.

Both Portman and Inland have nice earthy appearances and seem to be a fresh take on a modern design.

Matthew's designed the Element in Philly. Big bonus in my mind. Inland and Matthew's are my favorite despite originally liking newcrest at first glance. 

 

Portman just is bland as can be and would not add in a good way to our skyline. It looks like every other convention hotel and not in a good way. 

 

It's been 11 years since Great American Tower was constructed. We need to expand our skyline in the Western part of Downtown and our skyline in general. 

Portman just reminds me of a slightly bigger 580 building. And that's not a compliment. 

Just based on appearance:

 

1. Matthews

2. Inland

3. Portman

4.  Newcrest