9 minutes ago, stashua123 said:

Portman just reminds me of a slightly bigger 580 building. And that's not a compliment. 

I love the bottom 5 floors of the Portman and how it integrates with the street and neighborhood, but the top floors remind me of just large hotel projects like the Omni in Louisville and just scream mid-tier market to me. 

We were told skywalks were bad.  Now one is coming back?  

9 minutes ago, Lazarus said:

We were told skywalks were bad.  Now one is coming back?  

 

Not necessarily. They were pretty clear that these are just concepts and not meant to represent the final design. 

 

Also, there is nuance. It's bad for downtown to have a large skywalk system that keeps people from engaging with street-level retail. But it is probably good for the convention hotel to connect directly to the convention center. Like most things, there are positives and negatives. 

16 minutes ago, Lazarus said:

We were told skywalks were bad.  Now one is coming back?  

For convention center hotels, especially "the" convention hotel, its expected they be directly connected to each other. Every major convention center has the convention hotel directly next to it or connected via a skywalk. I am not too upset by bringing one back if it mean booking more conventions...

I am curious how effectively the new hotel could integrate their ballroom with existing convention space and ballrooms. 

17 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

I am curious how effectively the new hotel could integrate their ballroom with existing convention space and ballrooms. 

The new Hilton Columbus tower, is a great example of just that. Was there last week for a convention. The ballroom spaces of the new Hilton tower flowed seamlessly between the convention center and the hotel. Seemed like a great layout and design. If you truly werent paying attention you wouldnt realize you were in the hotel and not the convention center. 

Typically these initial renderings don't really mean anything, a developer isn't going to put much thought into what a potential building would look like without having the site under control. I was curious though as to how much deviation there is from initial renderings to the completed project, so using the comparable properties mentioned in the Courier, I tracked down the earliest rendering I could find for each hotel vs. the final product.

 

https://imgur.com/a/UMRPyCH

 

All of these rendering were released in tandem with the project being announced, which meant the developer already had the site under control and had done their initial due diligence. As you can see, they changed quite a bit even from that point. Considering this site has yet to be awarded to anyone I think we can expect to see pretty dramatic changes from now 'til construction begins. I didn't include Newcrest as their design is clearly preliminary.

 

52 minutes ago, savadams13 said:

The new Hilton Columbus tower, is a great example of just that. Was there last week for a convention. The ballroom spaces of the new Hilton tower flowed seamlessly between the convention center and the hotel. Seemed like a great layout and design. If you truly werent paying attention you wouldnt realize you were in the hotel and not the convention center. 

Just a clarification. The Hilton in Columbus has two spaces on both sides of High St. The new tower, on the east side of High St is directly contiguous with their convention center, so it makes sense that it can "flow seamlessly". The older, shorter (~12 story) Hilton connects via skywalk, but I doubt it's quite as "seamless" as the new tower is.

 

Cincinnati's new convention hotel will be across 5th Street from our convention center. I don't know enough about the convention business to say if a direct/skywalk connection is considered a "must-have feature" to maintain a competitive advantage for conventions against our peer cities. Just doing a spot check on Google Maps, it looks like these cities have skywalks connecting to the convention center: Kansas City, Milwaukee, Columbus, Indianapolis, Baltimore. On the other hand, some peer cities don't have skywalks or direct connection to a hotel: Nashville, Charlotte, Detroit, St Louis.  I agree with @savadams13that I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to a skywalk, as long as it's an attractive design from the sidewalk/pedestrian experience. 

Is there a question too of the practicality of integrating the skywalk with the Moody-Nolan redesign. Without chewing it over looking at renderings, they don't seem too compatible.

 

Put me down for the Matthews.

 

Also, I am really digging the rooftop concept for the CC.

2 hours ago, dnymck said:

Typically these initial renderings don't really mean anything, a developer isn't going to put much thought into what a potential building would look like without having the site under control.

True but this site IS under control. 3CDC already owns the hotel site. So the orientation of the building is already known. Which is why these early designs are more solid than most at this stage.

Edited November 3, 20222 yr by 646empire

Let’s just hope we don’t go the Kansas City route and drastically decrease the height. 

18 minutes ago, 646empire said:

True but this site IS under control. 3CDC already owns the hotel site. So the orientation of the building is already known. Which is why these early designs are more solid than most at this stage.

I wish they had a few other angles of the renderings to see how the buildings would look from a Southeasterly view

The tallest hotel in Ohio is the Cleveland Hilton, standing at 374 feet/32 floors/600 rooms. The second tallest hotel in Ohio is the Columbus Hilton second tower standing at 361 feet/28 floors/463 rooms. Hopefully Cincinnati can top them with a 800 room hotel. But knowing how this city is scared of heights and probably be shorter than both Cleveland and Columbus 

7 hours ago, cin614 said:

The tallest hotel in Ohio is the Cleveland Hilton, standing at 374 feet/32 floors/600 rooms. The second tallest hotel in Ohio is the Columbus Hilton second tower standing at 361 feet/28 floors/463 rooms. Hopefully Cincinnati can top them with a 800 room hotel. But knowing how this city is scared of heights and probably be shorter than both Cleveland and Columbus 

What are the sizes of the lots they take up? 

I’ think the concept of branding is so important and I’d like to see us “brand” a •Hotel Row” that we will have with 4 consecutive blocks and potentially 5 with 5th and walnut being sizevale hotels.  If we are able to selll a “conevwntion district” with “hotel row” that has x amount of event spaces and x amount of convention space , we will be very attractive. 
 

i also think that we should keep the sky walks connecting all the hotels.  While I’m generally for removing the others, I think part of the appeal is you have 4 (or 5) hotels actually connected to the convention center.  Never have to leave if you don’t want to.  I think that is powerful 

11 minutes ago, CincyNY said:

I’ think the concept of branding is so important and I’d like to see us “brand” a •Hotel Row” that we will have with 4 consecutive blocks and potentially 5 with 5th and walnut being sizevale hotels.  If we are able to selll a “conevwntion district” with “hotel row” that has x amount of event spaces and x amount of convention space , we will be very attractive. 
 

i also think that we should keep the sky walks connecting all the hotels.  While I’m generally for removing the others, I think part of the appeal is you have 4 (or 5) hotels actually connected to the convention center.  Never have to leave if you don’t want to.  I think that is powerful 

So you have new Convention Hotel, Hyatt, Westin, Hilton, what others count? Do you count the Renaissance?

I would not consider  the Hampton, Residence Inn, 21C, Holiday Inn, Aloft, Moxy, Lytle Hotel, and whatever other smaller hotels are down there in that mix as they do not cater to convention and meetings 

34 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

So you have new Convention Hotel, Hyatt, Westin, Hilton, what others count? Do you count the Renaissance?

I would not consider  the Hampton, Residence Inn, 21C, Holiday Inn, Aloft, Moxy, Lytle Hotel, and whatever other smaller hotels are down there in that mix as they do not cater to convention and meetings 

I was really counting just the hotels along 5th and having them connected and branded.  Obviously we could sell that we have a lot more hotel capacity in tel he central business district but I think a hotel Row connected to the convention center is pretty unique 

9 hours ago, cin614 said:

The tallest hotel in Ohio is the Cleveland Hilton, standing at 374 feet/32 floors/600 rooms. The second tallest hotel in Ohio is the Columbus Hilton second tower standing at 361 feet/28 floors/463 rooms. Hopefully Cincinnati can top them with a 800 room hotel. But knowing how this city is scared of heights and probably be shorter than both Cleveland and Columbus 

 

Sorry, skyscraper-nerd alert time.  The second-tallest in Ohio is actually Cincinnati's own Hilton Cincinnati Netherland Plaza at 372 feet.

15 minutes ago, ColDayMan said:

 

Sorry, skyscraper-nerd alert time.  The second-tallest in Ohio is actually Cincinnati's own Hilton Cincinnati Netherland Plaza at 372 feet.

She is a tall old gal, just gets dwarfed by the Carew Tower. Would probably look taller if standing alone like the Columbus Hilton. 

1 hour ago, ColDayMan said:

 

Sorry, skyscraper-nerd alert time.  The second-tallest in Ohio is actually Cincinnati's own Hilton Cincinnati Netherland Plaza at 372 feet.

 

 

2 hours ago, savadams13 said:

She is a tall old gal, just gets dwarfed by the Carew Tower. Would probably look taller if standing alone like the Columbus Hilton. 

We just need to add a flag pole then we can add that to the total overall height. Take that Cleveland Hilton. 

...or it could just add a garage for window washing equipment like the IDS Center in Minneapolis to take back "the crown."

I just kinda take the point of if this is not going to be a Marque building of the skyline that we are spending 500 million on that would be a damn shame. 

 

Combine materials of portman with design of matthews and boom perfect tall hotel that really adds to our skyline. 

 

Would prefer something 400-450 ft which Inland and Matthew's seem to accomplish. 

5 hours ago, CincyNY said:

I was really counting just the hotels along 5th and having them connected and branded.  Obviously we could sell that we have a lot more hotel capacity in tel he central business district but I think a hotel Row connected to the convention center is pretty unique 

I think for large conventions, they sell the Hyatt, Hilton and Westin meeting rooms as part of the package too. 

I do not think the other hotels have adequate meeting space for large events. 

What it would have been if the original 4th and Race tower (30 floors) was built instead of the dainty 14 floors that were built. Don’t get me wrong, I am glad something finally was built. But having that tower plus the new convention hotel tower would have really helped balance out the skyline. Let’s hope the Whex garage and Convention place can both be replaced by something that adds to the skyline.

Edited November 5, 20222 yr by Ucgrad2015

Latest plan for I-75 in Queensgate posted by ODOT last week.

45 minutes ago, GHOST TRACKS said:

Latest plan for I-75 in Queensgate posted by ODOT last week.

Same design as June I believe unfortunately. 

10 hours ago, stashua123 said:

Same design as June I believe unfortunately. 

But that still allows for a significant Westward expansion of the Convention Center if they want it appears. 

1 hour ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

But that still allows for a significant Westward expansion of the Convention Center if they want it appears. 

Yes, but you would hear the out cries if they close Central to expand westward, you need that continuous main floor space to be competitive, so if not Elm then Central. Will be interesting in 10-15 years from now to see what really happens. 

If only there were somewhere downtown that provided more than 4 blocks of continuous main floor space, without disrupting the street grid...

 

1 hour ago, savadams13 said:

Yes, but you would hear the out cries if they close Central to expand westward, you need that continuous main floor space to be competitive, so if not Elm then Central. Will be interesting in 10-15 years from now to see what really happens. 

It makes much more sense to close Central than Elm. Central is on the fringe and not really connected to town as much and is only really used for cut through traffic. Maybe the city employees at Centennial Towers may be upset but otherwise it is not a heavily used corridor. 

 

Elm is going to be more heavily used and better connected with the main downtown core. Plus, you get a much larger convention center footprint going west over Central than East over Elm. 

 

You cant really close 6th and go North, and you could not close 5th and go South (I know these are not really options anyway) so the only path is East or West and it makes the most sense to go West IMO

Edited November 7, 20222 yr by Brutus_buckeye

48 minutes ago, carnevalem said:

If only there were somewhere downtown that provided more than 4 blocks of continuous main floor space, without disrupting the street grid...

 

But that ship sailed a long time ago so this would never happen. Although would make a good arena site. 

I'm not sure there would be a lot of opposition to removing another block of Central Avenue since the city was willing to do it for TQL Stadium as well. Could also be done in such a way that Central Avenue gets shifted west rather than completely removed.

1 hour ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

But that ship sailed a long time ago so this would never happen. Although would make a good arena site. 

Also in my opinion this is a horrific site for a convention center YIKES. To make is worse you would have to build a brand new cluster of hotels to accommodate such a plan which would add another billion bucks or so, definitely a no go.

Edited November 7, 20222 yr by 646empire

20 hours ago, taestell said:

I'm not sure there would be a lot of opposition to removing another block of Central Avenue since the city was willing to do it for TQL Stadium as well. Could also be done in such a way that Central Avenue gets shifted west rather than completely removed.

Just anecdotally, I rarely see much traffic on Central and it is lightly used. Where I do see traffic is typically from 6th street going down to 5th or the river where Tina's used to be (Essentially, people looking to do a loop around the convention center). Other than that it is a very lightly travelled street. There is almost no activity near Centennial Plaza and the Cathedral on the Central side. 

If you do go West with a Convention Center expansion, I would put in place a plan to develop the area from 6th-10th along Plum and Central into a vibrant residential district because the traffic pattern would have cut that corner of downtown off for much other type of businesses and it would not be easy to access. Regardless of which way they choose to expand, they run the risk of the NW Corner of downtown becoming isolated and they need a plan to deal with that. 

FWIW, the 4 highlighted traffic counts are from 2021.

18 minutes ago, Dev said:

FWIW, the 4 highlighted traffic counts are from 2021.

Just curious, what are the traffic counts on Central between 4th and 5th? or even 3rd and 4th?

 

I would imagine they are quite low once you get past 4th as you into the highway underpasses and there is not any street action there. I would think 4th to 5th may have about the same traffic as 6th to 5th street probably a bit more even.

31 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Just curious, what are the traffic counts on Central between 4th and 5th? or even 3rd and 4th?

 

I would imagine they are quite low once you get past 4th as you into the highway underpasses and there is not any street action there. I would think 4th to 5th may have about the same traffic as 6th to 5th street probably a bit more even.

OKI and ODOT have 6480 between 4th and McFarland, with a 2021 year. I'm not seeing anything between 4th and 5th. They also have 2,540 between Pete Rose Way and the 2nd St overpass.

On 8/24/2022 at 9:59 AM, 646empire said:

I heard rumors of Hilton taking its flag off of Netherland Plaza if “improvements” weren’t made. But that hasn’t happened. I’m hoping Mr Powers (I think that’s his name) will use the Carew Tower sale money on the upkeep of The Hilton.

 

Welp looks like The Hilton flag IS in trouble. 77 million is a ton of debt WOW.

 

“In the motion to appoint a receiver, the plaintiffs allege over $2.6 million is owed in franchise fees to Hilton. Hilton gave Cincinnati Netherland Hotel LLC nine months to cure its default, which it has failed to do, putting the hotel at risk of being removed from Hilton’s reservation system.

“Removal of the property from Hilton’s reservation system will decimate the income for this property, and hotel occupancy will significantly decline, jeopardizing the value of plaintiff’s collateral,” according to the motion.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/11/15/carew-tower-foreclosure-netherland-plaza-hotel.html

 

As I said before tho I’m hoping Cincinnati’s new Convention Hotel is not a Hilton they are boring.

 

Edited November 15, 20222 yr by 646empire

2 hours ago, 646empire said:

 

Welp looks like The Hilton flag IS in trouble. 77 million is a ton of debt WOW.

 

“In the motion to appoint a receiver, the plaintiffs allege over $2.6 million is owed in franchise fees to Hilton. Hilton gave Cincinnati Netherland Hotel LLC nine months to cure its default, which it has failed to do, putting the hotel at risk of being removed from Hilton’s reservation system.

“Removal of the property from Hilton’s reservation system will decimate the income for this property, and hotel occupancy will significantly decline, jeopardizing the value of plaintiff’s collateral,” according to the motion.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/11/15/carew-tower-foreclosure-netherland-plaza-hotel.html

 

As I said before tho I’m hoping Cincinnati’s new Convention Hotel is not a Hilton they are boring.

 

I wished they had kept the Omni flag on the hotel, although it did not fit as much with the other Omni hotels at the time. 

3 hours ago, 646empire said:

 

Welp looks like The Hilton flag IS in trouble. 77 million is a ton of debt WOW.

 

“In the motion to appoint a receiver, the plaintiffs allege over $2.6 million is owed in franchise fees to Hilton. Hilton gave Cincinnati Netherland Hotel LLC nine months to cure its default, which it has failed to do, putting the hotel at risk of being removed from Hilton’s reservation system.

“Removal of the property from Hilton’s reservation system will decimate the income for this property, and hotel occupancy will significantly decline, jeopardizing the value of plaintiff’s collateral,” according to the motion.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/11/15/carew-tower-foreclosure-netherland-plaza-hotel.html

 

As I said before tho I’m hoping Cincinnati’s new Convention Hotel is not a Hilton they are boring.

 

Not sure you have seen new Hilton properties as of lately, but they are anything but boring. Cleveland, Columbus, the new one in Indy being built all are fantastic properties. I would be completely fine with a Hilton Signia hotel as our convention property. 

2 hours ago, savadams13 said:

Not sure you have seen new Hilton properties as of lately, but they are anything but boring. Cleveland, Columbus, the new one in Indy being built all are fantastic properties. I would be completely fine with a Hilton Signia hotel as our convention property. 

I’ve stayed in the Cleveland one but not the newest Columbus tower. Those properties are fine but only because they are new/newish but it doesn’t change the fact they are still standard Hiltons which are mostly flat in design and definitely in service. Signia is a different kind of Hilton and is a notch up I guess and would maybe be ok but I would like to see something else maybe from Marriott or Loews, Omni etc. Also the fact that both Columbus and Cleveland both have Hilton as their primary convention hotels makes me want a different flag in Cincy even more.

Edited November 15, 20222 yr by 646empire

43 minutes ago, 646empire said:

I’ve stayed in the Cleveland one but not the newest Columbus tower. Those properties are fine but only because they are new/newish but it doesn’t change the fact they are still standard Hiltons which are mostly flat in design and definitely in service. Signia is a different kind of Hilton and is a notch up I guess and would maybe be ok but I would like to see something else maybe from Marriott or Loews, Omni etc. Also the fact that both Columbus and Cleveland both have Hilton as their primary convention hotels makes me want a different flag in Cincy even more.

Well as discussed on here before. There is good chance for Omni, Loews brands. Marriott is tricky, they have the city saturated at the moment and the big Marriott is across the river. They typically would not cannibalize another brand and property so close. Not sure we would see a JW Marriott, based on price point for rooms. 

Hamilton County will pay developer Vandercar in Millennium Hotel case

By Chris Wetterich  –  Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier

Nov 17, 2022

 

Hamilton County will likely pay $5 million to a developer who has won a legal dispute with the Port of Greater Cincinnati Development Authority over the acquisition of the since-demolished Millennium Hotel.

A vote could come Thursday.

 

In September, the Hamilton County Court of Appeals upheld a November 2021 decision by a Hamilton County Common Pleas Court judge ruling in favor of Vandercar LLC, whose principal is Rob Smyjunas. The Port has to pay Vandercar $5 million, but it has been unclear until now from where the money would come.

 

MORE

Port votes to pay developer Smyjunas $5.1 million, but he moves to halt payment

By Chris Wetterich  –  Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier

Nov 21, 2022

 

The board that oversees the Port of Greater Cincinnati Development Authority voted Monday to pay developer Rob Smyjunas more than $5 million to settle a legal dispute over the deal to acquire the former Millennium Hotel, but he moved to stop the Port from paying.

 

“I’m very happy to put this litigation behind us and focus on the future of the convention center district,” said Port CEO Laura Brunner. “I’m proud of what our team has done to remove blight and enable redevelopment.”

 

But on Friday, Smyjunas’ company, Vandercar LLC, asked Hamilton County Common Pleas Judge Tom Heekin to enjoin the Port from paying the $5.1 million.

 

MORE

‘Heartburn’ about convention center financing plan, which could include hotel tax increase

By Chris Wetterich  –  Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier

Nov 22, 2022

 

Sharonville’s mayor said he is concerned about a potential plan to pay for a $200 million rehabilitation of the Duke Energy Convention Center as a part of a broader plan to build a headquarters hotel in downtown Cincinnati and revitalize the district around the center.

 

Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. (3CDC) outlined on Nov. 18 some of the financial concepts of its plan to the Convention Facilities Authority, which oversees the downtown and Sharonville convention centers.

 

For years, the region has needed a new headquarters hotel and 3CDC, which is managing the convention center district project, is leading a process to pick a developer. But in recent months, 3CDC has said for a developer to actually build a new hotel, every inch of the convention center needs to be overhauled, likely at a $200 million cost.

 

MORE

Judge Tom Heekin halts garnishment of Port’s assets in Vandercar/Smyjunas case

By Chris Wetterich  –  Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier

Nov 23, 2022

 

A Hamilton County judge has stayed an attempt to hold money from the Port of Greater Cincinnati Development Authority by a developer who has won a dispute with the quasi-public agency over the purchase of the former Millennium Hotel property.

 

Without comment, Hamilton County Common Pleas Judge Tom Heekin issued the order a week after Vandercar LLC, led by developer Rob Smyjunas, sent an affidavit and order of garnishment to Fifth Third Bank and Huntington Bank ordering it to hold on to the Port’s assets.

 

MORE

Any news on if they have decided a developer for the site?

On 12/31/2022 at 10:34 AM, Ucgrad2015 said:

Any news on if they have decided a developer for the site?

Any day now hopefully, I got the sense from city connects around Christmas a choice had been made.

Edited January 18, 20232 yr by 646empire

18 hours ago, 646empire said:

Any day now hopefully, I got the sense from city connects around Christmas a choice had been made.

It'll be announced tomorrow. They chose one of the cooler proposals. Construction start timeline is sooner than I would've expected as well, given recent rising costs. All aboard the skyscraper hype train.

Edited January 19, 20232 yr by dnymck