February 20, 20232 yr AND THE HOTEL!!! WHERE IS THE HOTEL?!?!?!? (said ColDayMan circa 2004) "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 20, 20232 yr 5 hours ago, savadams13 said: Nope the whole Convention Place and Chinedum Ndukwe has everything tied up until further notice. The Port and 3CDC want that property, Judge Alan Triggs is allowing Ndukwe to prove he deserves and has ownership in the building. Its a total clusterfuck situation at the moment. This is news to me. I’m hearing the all clear on the hotel and it’s only 6 weeks into 2023 no need for alarm just yet, On top of that 3CDC is trying to do the convention center renovation in somewhat concert with the hotel. Are you suggesting that 3CDC now wants to move the site of the hotel to the corner of 5th and Elm? If not why on earth would 3CDC delay the hotel for a site that it does not need to construct the hotel? The Convention Center Place non sense will surely resolve itself while the hotel is under construction over the next few years. It’s down right crazy the amount of land The Port and 3CDC now control in that area including the Millennium site, the proposed hotel lot among others. For gosh sakes they are even about to acquire the old Saks too. Clusterfuck?? How? Lol.
February 21, 20232 yr On 1/20/2023 at 4:44 PM, Lazarus said: The densest part of the city not served by the streetcar is the west half of downtown. The new branch could be at least partially in its own protected lane and have the priority signaling that doesn't exist on Main/Walnut, meaning 2 streetcars might be able to achieve the frequency of 3 on the existing Main/Walnut tracks. It'll take about 8,000 feet of single-track (4,000ft route length) to do this and it'll make the existing track north of 12th St. much more useful since people up there will have two route options. It'll be really easy for visitors to understand. I know this is a month old but I just want to point out that it is a five minute walk from Elm Street to the streetcar stations on Walnut. It makes zero sense to do this expansion. That money would be way better spent by buying more streetcars and other improvements to increase frequency and speed on the current line.
February 21, 20232 yr 10 hours ago, DEPACincy said: I know this is a month old but I just want to point out that it is a five minute walk from Elm Street to the streetcar stations on Walnut. It makes zero sense to do this expansion. That money would be way better spent by buying more streetcars and other improvements to increase frequency and speed on the current line. I think it does make sense to do the expansion...at some time in the further future. Right now the availability of affordable parking is too high. I agree that other improvements should be prioritized, although an expansion would be a lot more expensive. Hopefully the city includes signal priority in this year's biennial budget, especially since they are spending $10 million for a fiber optic system for all of downtown's traffic lights. And maybe we'll get lucky with money for a study for expansion so we don't have to keep arguing amongst ourselves about which option is the best.
February 21, 20232 yr 10 hours ago, DEPACincy said: I know this is a month old but I just want to point out that it is a five minute walk from Elm Street to the streetcar stations on Walnut. It makes zero sense to do this expansion. That money would be way better spent by buying more streetcars and other improvements to increase frequency and speed on the current line. The front door of the convention center is 2,300 feet from the nearest northbound streetcar stop at 4th & Main. The second-closest northbound stop is at 14th & Elm - over 3,000 feet away. Nobody is riding the current streetcar line to get to or from the convention center or anything else on the western half of downtown. No worker, no tourist. The western half of downtown is the densest part of the entire metro area not currently reached by the streetcar. No other expansion offers anywhere close to the ROI.
February 21, 20232 yr 35 minutes ago, Dev said: I think it does make sense to do the expansion...at some time in the further future. Right now the availability of affordable parking is too high. I agree that other improvements should be prioritized, although an expansion would be a lot more expensive. Hopefully the city includes signal priority in this year's biennial budget, especially since they are spending $10 million for a fiber optic system for all of downtown's traffic lights. And maybe we'll get lucky with money for a study for expansion so we don't have to keep arguing amongst ourselves about which option is the best. I do agree that expansion makes sense. I just don't think there is any world where this particular expansion should be prioritized. Take it up the hill, go to Camp Washington, Northside, or across the WHV. Go to Northern Kentucky or up Gilbert or to the West End. But running a parallel route two blocks from the existing route is way down the list of needs.
February 21, 20232 yr 2 minutes ago, DEPACincy said: I do agree that expansion makes sense. I just don't think there is any world where this particular expansion should be prioritized. Take it up the hill, go to Camp Washington, Northside, or across the WHV. Go to Northern Kentucky or up Gilbert or to the West End. But running a parallel route two blocks from the existing route is way down the list of needs. Connect the Streetcar to key attractions, even a spur to the casino/Art Museum/Walnut Hills or Union Terminal/TQL would be a better use of funds IMO. Make it a transportation tool, to get people to places that are not convenient to walk. The city spent a bunch of money to remove the skywalk system over the last 20 years, adding streetcar lines and spurs that pretty much are no more than a block from any place downtown, essentially recreates the skywalk system. It takes people off the street and encourages them to ride 2-3 blocks on the streetcar instead of walking the street and checking out the various street level retail.
February 21, 20232 yr 20 minutes ago, Lazarus said: The western half of downtown is the densest part of the entire metro area not currently reached by the streetcar. No other expansion offers anywhere close to the ROI. That is absolutely not true. The Block Group that includes West 4th and the convention center has 6,400 people per square mile. Northside and Walnut Hills have multiple around 10,000. Mt. Adams is about 10,000. There are Block Groups in the West End with over 15,000 people per square mile. There's one in Clifton Heights with 32,000 people per square mile. Even Hyde Park Square has about 8,000 per square mile. There are tons of places more dense than the west side of downtown. Now you could make the argument that the daytime populations swells I guess. And there's certainly tons of opportunity for more density. If I had unlimited money I'd throw another line there, but we live in a world with financial constraints.
February 21, 20232 yr 2 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said: Connect the Streetcar to key attractions, even a spur to the casino/Art Museum/Walnut Hills or Union Terminal/TQL would be a better use of funds IMO. Make it a transportation tool, to get people to places that are not convenient to walk. The city spent a bunch of money to remove the skywalk system over the last 20 years, adding streetcar lines and spurs that pretty much are no more than a block from any place downtown, essentially recreates the skywalk system. It takes people off the street and encourages them to ride 2-3 blocks on the streetcar instead of walking the street and checking out the various street level retail. Brutus, we hardly ever agree on anything, but I'll give credit where it is due. You are spot on here.
February 21, 20232 yr 16 hours ago, 646empire said: This is news to me. I’m hearing the all clear on the hotel and it’s only 6 weeks into 2023 no need for alarm just yet, On top of that 3CDC is trying to do the convention center renovation in somewhat concert with the hotel. Are you suggesting that 3CDC now wants to move the site of the hotel to the corner of 5th and Elm? If not why on earth would 3CDC delay the hotel for a site that it does not need to construct the hotel? The Convention Center Place non sense will surely resolve itself while the hotel is under construction over the next few years. It’s down right crazy the amount of land The Port and 3CDC now control in that area including the Millennium site, the proposed hotel lot among others. For gosh sakes they are even about to acquire the old Saks too. Clusterfuck?? How? Lol. You do realize two of the convention hotel designs were based off having the convention place property to build on. So with that stalling out and the Port not having control of the property it does but the program in a holding pattern for a moment. I am sure they have contingency plan in place but you have to go back to all four developers and announce there has been a change and see if anyone come back with a change of heart. I cant get into too many details at this time but things are on pause until Convention place is figured out or the hotel developers are in agreement to build without that property.
February 21, 20232 yr 9 minutes ago, savadams13 said: You do realize two of the convention hotel designs were based off having the convention place property to build on. So with that stalling out and the Port not having control of the property it does but the program in a holding pattern for a moment. I am sure they have contingency plan in place but you have to go back to all four developers and announce there has been a change and see if anyone come back with a change of heart. I cant get into too many details at this time but things are on pause until Convention place is figured out or the hotel developers are in agreement to build without that property. Which two designs were they?
February 21, 20232 yr 11 minutes ago, savadams13 said: You do realize two of the convention hotel designs were based off having the convention place property to build on. So with that stalling out and the Port not having control of the property it does but the program in a holding pattern for a moment. I am sure they have contingency plan in place but you have to go back to all four developers and announce there has been a change and see if anyone come back with a change of heart. I cant get into too many details at this time but things are on pause until Convention place is figured out or the hotel developers are in agreement to build without that property. So it appears that Laura Brunner got a bit over her skis on this one
February 21, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, Lazarus said: The front door of the convention center is 2,300 feet from the nearest northbound streetcar stop at 4th & Main. The second-closest northbound stop is at 14th & Elm - over 3,000 feet away. What's the rule of thumb? People will regularly walk up to half a mile to get to quality rail transit. Giving the streetcar signal priority for its entire length, as well as traffic calming along 4th and 5th, should be more than enough for the time being to convince convention attendees and hotel guests to look at using the streetcar to go into northern OTR, instead of driving somewhere else.
February 21, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, savadams13 said: You do realize two of the convention hotel designs were based off having the convention place property to build on. So with that stalling out and the Port not having control of the property it does but the program in a holding pattern for a moment. I am sure they have contingency plan in place but you have to go back to all four developers and announce there has been a change and see if anyone come back with a change of heart. I cant get into too many details at this time but things are on pause until Convention place is figured out or the hotel developers are in agreement to build without that property. As I said this is news to me, as of late December this was not an issue. I reached out to someone I know and they replied “I’m aware of the The Port and 3CDC wanting Convention Place for future development but not in regards to building the hotel itself.” According to you it’s safe to assume the developer they selected wants/needs that property too now? Lol what a silly mess if true and outrageous considering the amount of money already spent on land and the sheer amount of land they already control. Edited February 21, 20232 yr by 646empire
February 21, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, savadams13 said: I am sure they have contingency plan in place but you have to go back to all four developers and announce there has been a change and see if anyone come back with a change of heart. Announce there has been a change? What change? They have never had possession of Convention Center Place and all entities have said the hotel site was settled and a go. You’re telling me they put the Convention Center Place site in the RFP? If you look at the 4 designs non of them really embrace the corner well which implies the site was never included. Even the convention center renovation proposal had the hotel depicted west of the corner of 5th and elm, something isn’t adding up. Nothing against what you’re saying (thanks for your input) but it’s realllyyyyy weird and conflicting. I met the City Manager a few weeks back really nice young lady if I see her again soon will ask some more questions and give some feedback. Edited February 21, 20232 yr by 646empire
February 21, 20232 yr 2 hours ago, DEPACincy said: But running a parallel route two blocks from the existing route is way down the list of needs. It's not two blocks - northbound is four blocks, Elm to Main, a distance of roughly 2,000 feet, depending on station locations. Your other suggestions are all significantly larger projects, no doubt with lower ROI per track distance because they all travel through significantly less-dense areas that are unlikely to one day be lined by 10-20 story buildings, or get a convention center. Also, doubling the number of streetcars on the upper part of the line will give people the option to take either route if they're going to something on Vine St. below Central Parkway.
February 21, 20232 yr 8 minutes ago, Lazarus said: It's not two blocks - northbound is four blocks, Elm to Main, a distance of roughly 2,000 feet, depending on station locations. So it is unrealistic to have tourists walk less than 1/2 a mile to explore downtown? Also, keep in mind that outside of the convention hotel (TBD) most of the other downtown hotels like the Westin and Hilton are much closer to the streetcar line.
February 21, 20232 yr 21 minutes ago, Lazarus said: Also, doubling the number of streetcars on the upper part of the line will give people the option to take either route if they're going to something on Vine St. below Central Parkway. Or, hear me out, we just double the number of streetcars on the existing track and give it signal priority for significantly lower cost.
February 21, 20232 yr 4 minutes ago, DEPACincy said: Or, hear me out, we just double the number of streetcars on the existing track and give it signal priority for significantly lower cost. The one thing I hated about the streetcar (also because I am impatient) is waiting on the streetcar 5-10 minutes. Adding more cars and frequency of stops, as well as signal deliniation to make the cars move more efficiently. Doing what you suggest will make the whole experience much better for all riders and encourage more riders to use the streetcar.
March 7, 20232 yr The Portman Holdings group was selected. This is their design. Only ask from me is make it a bit taller
March 7, 20232 yr Ugh. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
March 7, 20232 yr Just now, ColDayMan said: Ugh. Second that, we went with the boring conservative design and developer out of the other two. (Newcrest never should have been a finalist)
March 7, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, stashua123 said: The Portman Holdings group was selected. This is their design. Only ask from me is make it a bit taller The article mentions a 482 Million Dollar price tag, Wow. Edited March 7, 20232 yr by 646empire
March 7, 20232 yr On 11/1/2022 at 10:11 PM, 646empire said: Interesting, I’m feeling Portman a lot. My gut tells me it will be Portman or Inland. I noticed Inland is the only one that has an actual hotel brand attached to the design (Lowes). Spot on and I like it! As I said a few weeks ago there has been no delay and things are full steam ahead. Edited March 7, 20232 yr by 646empire
March 7, 20232 yr Do we know if the plan is to have a rooftop pool/patio? Seems like the roof is the only outdoor area that could be used as a patio. Edited March 7, 20232 yr by Miami-Erie
March 7, 20232 yr Story on Portman’s Salt Lake convention center hotel, also 26 stories. Could be some similarities. https://www.enr.com/articles/53560-new-salt-lake-city-convention-hotel-designed-to-allow-for-maximum-light Edit: Ugh, paywalled. Well here’s the info on Portman’s site https://www.portmanholdings.com/portfolio-posts/hyatt-regency-salt-lake/ Edited March 7, 20232 yr by Pdrome513
March 7, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, stashua123 said: The Portman Holdings group was selected. This is their design. Only ask from me is make it a bit taller I wish it were taller too, but it seems like it is around the same height or at least close to the same height as the millenium, correct?
March 7, 20232 yr On 2/21/2023 at 10:55 AM, savadams13 said: You do realize two of the convention hotel designs were based off having the convention place property to build on. So with that stalling out and the Port not having control of the property it does but the program in a holding pattern for a moment. I am sure they have contingency plan in place but you have to go back to all four developers and announce there has been a change and see if anyone come back with a change of heart. I cant get into too many details at this time but things are on pause until Convention place is figured out or the hotel developers are in agreement to build without that property. Checking on this from ~2 weeks ago.
March 7, 20232 yr Here's a link to the presentation, delivered by 3CDC today to the Hamilton County Commissioners: https://hcjfsonbase.jfs.hamilton-co.org/OnBaseAgendaOnline/Documents/ViewDocument/Convention Center (4).pdf -.pdf?meetingId=2514&documentType=Agenda&itemId=22747&publishId=16519&isSection=false
March 7, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, Brutus_buckeye said: I wish it were taller too, but it seems like it is around the same height or at least close to the same height as the millenium, correct? From the looks of it, no. The millenium was I believe 350ft. Comparing it the Hyatt (260 ft) I’d say this at max would be 320ft. Had a chance to really add some height to this side of downtown and add balance to the skyline and this doesn’t. Can this proposal change designs or is this pretty much set in stone? The base looks great but the rest is just basic hotel. Edited March 7, 20232 yr by Ucgrad2015
March 7, 20232 yr 3CDC recommends Portman Holdings to be convention center hotel developer Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. (3CDC) has entered into exclusive negotiations with Atlanta-based Portman Holdings to build a new, $482 million headquarters hotel for the region downtown in a parking lot just south of the Duke Energy Convention Center. 3CDC is leading the process of building a new hotel, as well as updating the convention center itself. The city and county will have to agree to the eventual financing package it negotiates. “Those discussions are currently in progress," said Hamilton County Administrator Jeff Aluotto. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/03/07/3cdc-recommends-portman-convention-hotel-developer.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
March 7, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, jwulsin said: Checking on this from ~2 weeks ago. What's your point? Cant reveal my sources, and the discussion had between parties had true validity to everything going on.
March 7, 20232 yr Another Cincinnati let-down. Matthews should have been the choice, IMHO. I'm sorry I can't give proper credit because I was quickly copy/pasting, but someone posted this prediction a while back. For those wanting height, you probably got robbed. Portman: 26-28 floors (300-340 ft) Matthews: 30-32 floors (350-450 ft) Inland: 30-32 floors (350-450 ft) NewCrest: 28-32 floors (340-400) EDIT: Looking at the $482MM project cost and the $602k/key. That adds up to 800 rooms. Is that how that works? Edited March 7, 20232 yr by Rabbit Hash Rooms question.
March 8, 20232 yr I feel like this whole enterprise is doomed and is motivating the sale of the Southern Railroad. At present, the Duke Energy Center might be the 50th-best convention center in the country. To get in the Top 25, they're going to have to spend over $1 billion to expand the main convention hall over I-75 *and* largely rebuild the existing facility *and* upgrade the surrounding area with tons of additional structured parking.
March 8, 20232 yr How will Cincinnati convention center refresh, headquarters hotel be funded? By Chris Wetterich – Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier Mar 8, 2023 Hamilton County and Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. officials outlined Tuesday how they plan to pay for nearly $700 million in spending to build a new headquarters hotel downtown, as well as refurbish the Duke Energy Convention Center. At $482 million, the new headquarters hotel is the most expensive part of the package, and it faces a $163 million funding gap. The cost is about $603,000 per room. “That is not out of whack with the industry,” Hamilton County Administrator Jeff Aluotto told commissioners on Tuesday. MORE
March 8, 20232 yr 8 hours ago, Lazarus said: I feel like this whole enterprise is doomed and is motivating the sale of the Southern Railroad. At present, the Duke Energy Center might be the 50th-best convention center in the country. To get in the Top 25, they're going to have to spend over $1 billion to expand the main convention hall over I-75 *and* largely rebuild the existing facility *and* upgrade the surrounding area with tons of additional structured parking. I am not quite following the how the sale of the Southern Railroad is related to the convention center hotel
March 8, 20232 yr Portman has some nice looking projects on their website. Maybe they can stick around after the hotel and do a condo tower where the Saks Fifth Avenue building is? https://www.portmanholdings.com www.cincinnatiideas.com
March 8, 20232 yr 22 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said: I am not quite following the how the sale of the Southern Railroad is related to the convention center hotel There is a huge funding gap. The sale of the railroad now generates more money in the short-term rather than waiting for the expiration and renegotiation of the lease. The last expansion and renovation was in 2006. The extension to Central Ave. where WCPO previously stood added roughly 200x300 feet to the main exhibition hall - about 60,000 square feet. But the problem with the older part of the center is the location of the support pillars, which waste space, meaning the states size of the hall isn't effectively as large as they say. Expanding over Elm St. to the Millennium footprint maybe gets us another 60,000 sq feet when we need to double the place from its current 280k to 500k to start competing with McCormick, Las Vegas, Nashville, etc., for the big annual trade shows. We're basically forced at this point to try to coordinate with ODOT at the last minute to modify the I-75 plans to allow a major expansion over the expressway.
March 8, 20232 yr 13 minutes ago, Lazarus said: There is a huge funding gap. The sale of the railroad now generates more money in the short-term rather than waiting for the expiration and renegotiation of the lease. The last expansion and renovation was in 2006. The extension to Central Ave. where WCPO previously stood added roughly 200x300 feet to the main exhibition hall - about 60,000 square feet. But the problem with the older part of the center is the location of the support pillars, which waste space, meaning the states size of the hall isn't effectively as large as they say. Expanding over Elm St. to the Millennium footprint maybe gets us another 60,000 sq feet when we need to double the place from its current 280k to 500k to start competing with McCormick, Las Vegas, Nashville, etc., for the big annual trade shows. We're basically forced at this point to try to coordinate with ODOT at the last minute to modify the I-75 plans to allow a major expansion over the expressway. I get the funding gap but the railroad sale funds (if it happens) could not be used to cover the expansion of the convention center as currently written now.
March 8, 20232 yr 43 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said: I get the funding gap but the railroad sale funds (if it happens) could not be used to cover the expansion of the convention center as currently written now. Not directly for the center itself, but the semi-restricted funds could certainly be used for parking, street improvements, etc. I'd be interested to know if they plan to build convention center parking in the new hotel aside from hotel-specific parking. If so, the railroad funds could be used to build this section of hotel parking + fund demolition of the old garages north of 6th St.
March 8, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, Lazarus said: we need to double the place from its current 280k to 500k to start competing with McCormick, Las Vegas, Nashville, etc. That’s the problem with your argument, Cincinnati is not trying to nor does it need to compete with the likes of Chicago and Las Vegas etc lol. Cincinnati would need a lot more than a bigger convention center to be in that league.
March 8, 20232 yr If there's one thing that is not needed downtown it's more parking. Edited March 8, 20232 yr by Cincy513
March 8, 20232 yr 30 minutes ago, Cincy513 said: If there's one thing that is not needed downtown it's more parking. Yea, there is a huge surplus of structured parking in that area. Makes no sense to claim we need more.
March 8, 20232 yr 2 hours ago, 646empire said: That’s the problem with your argument, Cincinnati is not trying to nor does it need to compete with the likes of Chicago and Las Vegas etc lol. Cincinnati would need a lot more than a bigger convention center to be in that league. I'm talking about a single hall of one of their complexes. McCormick and Las Vegas each have multiple 500k halls. Ours is a fraction of the size of just one of their halls, and the layout of our main hall is terrible because the full ceiling height only exists in a central strip that measures about 350x200 feet - well under 100k square feet. The lower height areas are where the second-floor meeting rooms are located. Participants pay more for higher-profile spaces on the floor (not just floor space). The Duke Energy Center has tons of low-ceiling, low-rent space behind the pillars that the center can't get anyone to rent. When Leeper talks about renovating, I suspect that he wants to raise the ceiling height to make the unrentable low-ceiling spaces rentable, which will be a very expensive task, as it will involve moving the existing meeting rooms to a brand-new higher level or possibly off the current footprint into the new Convention Hotel. Really I think we're looking at an almost full reconstruction of the original 1960s building and 1980s expansion. The 2006 expansion's ballroom is located above the full height convention hall and so doesn't have the same problem with the pillars.
March 8, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, Lazarus said: Really I think we're looking at an almost full reconstruction of the original 1960s building and 1980s expansion. The 2006 expansion's ballroom is located above the full height convention hall and so doesn't have the same problem with the pillars. I can tell you the scope of the project is not this extensive and it doesn’t need to be in my opinion especially when you consider the type of groups/conventions the city will be looking to lure moving forward. This renovation is about modernizing with tech along with some big cosmetic upgrades and updating the exterior. The center will feel brand new when done. They are going to address some functionality issues too in the behind the scenes spaces. Edited March 8, 20232 yr by 646empire
March 8, 20232 yr Convention Place Mall: Court clears the way for demolition of 435 Elm St. A Hamilton County magistrate has ruled the Port of Greater Cincinnati Development Authority can demolish the decaying former Convention Place Mall building at 435 Elm St. downtown, which has been ensnared in legal disputes. The underlying dispute – whether developer Kingsley + Co. has certain redevelopment rights – will continue to be litigated. Kingsley had been asking the court to issue a preliminary injunction blocking demolition, but Magistrate Tom Beridon denied the request and said demolition could proceed, Andrew Garth, general counsel for the Port, said Wednesday. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/03/08/convention-place-mall-court-decision.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
March 9, 20232 yr 12 hours ago, thebillshark said: Portman has some nice looking projects on their website. Maybe they can stick around after the hotel and do a condo tower where the Saks Fifth Avenue building is? https://www.portmanholdings.com Thanks for sharing From this site, I was able to gather that they also have an architectural arm https://portmanarchitects.com Edited March 9, 20232 yr by preservationrestoration
March 9, 20232 yr 5 hours ago, preservationrestoration said: From this site, I was able to gather that they also have an architectural arm john portman was the architect/developer of many iconic hotels from the 60s, 70s, and 80s...embarcadero, bonaventure, the renaissance center in detroit, etc.
March 9, 20232 yr 16 hours ago, 646empire said: This renovation is about modernizing with tech along with some big cosmetic upgrades and updating the exterior. The center will feel brand new when done. They are going to address some functionality issues too in the behind the scenes spaces. Renovating the building in its current layout only makes sense if it's going to be a future secondary, lower-priced wing, but even then, prime downtown space will be wasted on a building with a design that limits it to volleyball tournaments, gymnastics meets, Beer Fest, animatronic dinosaur shows, etc. Scrapping the existing building and building new using the strategy of Philadelphia and Nashville would change everything, where the main halls are built above parking and the meeting spaces. This allows connectivity of the original surface streets to remain, and it enables parking within the center's footprint rather than the wasting of adjacent blocks for parking as we see currently in Cincinnati. In our case, the exhibit hall could be extended across Elm St. to the former Millennium property and north across Sixth to the current site of the convention center garages.
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