Yeah that's the decorating firm I worked for both in Cincinnati and Columbus. I hated the hours.

Edited May 3, 20232 yr by GCrites80s

5 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

Yeah that's the decorating firm I worked for both in Cincinnati and Columbus. I hated the hours.

 

When I worked for that vendor the hours were like 6am-9pm, sometimes for four days in a row.  The guy paid us in straight cash (he only had one employee who he reported to the IRS but typically had 10-15 people at each event).  One time we got back from Florida and he's passing out envelopes of cash to us in the Dayton Airport and he acted like he already gave me mine.  I was the "college guy" who he was always playing low-class games with, basically rubbing it in my face that he started this company and was making way more money than me, but in part because he kept breaking the show rules and flouting the tax code.  Now to think of it, he might have paid off some of those show organizers in straight cash to get the better booth space.  The cherry on top with this guy is that he lived on Sir Lancelot Lane in Dayton.  It's hard to keep a low profile with an address like that.  

 

 

 

How long did he get to do that? A lot of these dropouts are incredibly crash-n-burn since they think they're smarter than everyone else (especially the tax man) and refuse to think more than one step ahead.

54 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

How long did he get to do that? A lot of these dropouts are incredibly crash-n-burn since they think they're smarter than everyone else (especially the tax man) and refuse to think more than one step ahead.

 

I think he did it for about ten years.  I just looked him up and it doesn't look like he's still in business, at least under that same name.  

 

I think things must be different now because there is a lot less cash changing hands at conventions and swap meets.  We did have a credit card reader but I don't know what percentage of sales were run through it.  

 

That really was a great time to be a conman because nobody was writing checks anymore so you didn't have to worry about them bouncing but then you could always point to the straight business done via credit card and then do whatever you wanted with the cash.  I imagine that a lot of similar vendors are using Apple Pay, Paypal, Venmo, etc. now.  

 

I worked for another outfit that was out of Detroit.  That lady was always in a great mood and trusted everyone to a fault.  I remember her having a cash box that literally said "cash box" on it, and she didn't guard it.  

 

 

How Cincinnati, Hamilton County will avoid paying for new convention hotel's deficit

 

Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. CEO Steve Leeper and Hamilton County Administrator Jeff Aluotto said the magic words for Hamilton County commissioners.

 

Neither the county’s general fund nor its full faith and credit will be on the hook for a $170 million funding gap for the new headquarters hotel that could begin construction early next year. The same is expected to be true of the city.

 

The overall project is going to cost at least $470 million, according to the May 2 estimate, which is down slightly from $500 million, a number floated in November 2022. Atlanta-based developer Portman Holdings is expected to contribute $100 million in equity, secure a senior construction loan of $180 million and contribute some of the hotel’s revenue to the project.

 

The city and county will have to figure out where the rest, about 37% of the project's cost, will come from.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/05/03/cincinnati-hamilton-county-avoid-hotel-deficit.html

 

Just looked at this rendering and noticed that it shows the Millenium Hotel to the left. Massing that with the new hotel I’m assuming a height 325-340ft.  

1 hour ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

Just looked at this rendering and noticed that it shows the Millenium Hotel to the left. Massing that with the new hotel I’m assuming a height 325-340ft.  

The Millennium in the photo is being torn down. The crane is there and it appears they have already knocked off a few stories. Not sure if this is the best baseline.

 

The thing that I was always curious about is what is the tower between the Hyatt and Hilton? There is no tower there. It appears that they invented an extra block in downtown.  

50 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

 

 

The thing that I was always curious about is what is the tower between the Hyatt and Hilton? There is no tower there. It appears that they invented an extra block in downtown.  

 

It's not spaced correctly, but there exists the possibility that a tower of some sort will come to replace Sak's Fifth Ave. and the ballroom above it.

 

The former Tower Place Mall-turned parking garage along with the big 3CDC-owned garage that replaced the Pogue's garage are immediately south of Sak's Fifth Ave., so maybe something can be built there without any dedicated parking. 

 

 

 

9 hours ago, Lazarus said:

 

It's not spaced correctly, but there exists the possibility that a tower of some sort will come to replace Sak's Fifth Ave. and the ballroom above it.

 

The former Tower Place Mall-turned parking garage along with the big 3CDC-owned garage that replaced the Pogue's garage are immediately south of Sak's Fifth Ave., so maybe something can be built there without any dedicated parking. 

 

 

 

I thought about that but I never thought they put conceptual buildings like that which were not on the drawing board into those designs.

 

THe other question I have with the whole Saks redevelopment is what do you do with the Hyatt ballroom that sits above the old department store. You would think Hyatt would request a new ballroom. 

3 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

THe other question I have with the whole Saks redevelopment is what do you do with the Hyatt ballroom that sits above the old department store. You would think Hyatt would request a new ballroom. 

 

This dilemma illustrates why you don't want to develop odd mixed-use situations like this one (or of you're the city, allow them to be developed).  Some investor is left holding the bag 20-30-40 years down the road and the city ends up with a dead spot that takes 5-10 years to rework.    

 

This whole mess also illustrates how dumb the Dunhumby office project was 8~ years ago.  Its presence prevents expansion of the convention center across Elm St. to a new entrance at Race St.  The center could have added significant space to the main hall and had a new face much closer to the center of downtown.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

55 minutes ago, Lazarus said:

 

This dilemma illustrates why you don't want to develop odd mixed-use situations like this one (or of you're the city, allow them to be developed).  Some investor is left holding the bag 20-30-40 years down the road and the city ends up with a dead spot that takes 5-10 years to rework.    

 

This whole mess also illustrates how dumb the Dunhumby office project was 8~ years ago.  Its presence prevents expansion of the convention center across Elm St. to a new entrance at Race St.  The center could have added significant space to the main hall and had a new face much closer to the center of downtown.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Everyone has their own interpretation, but I would not call the 84.51 project dumb. It secured a lot of high-paying jobs to stay in the City. You could argue the building should only take half the block (which I agree with) and be taller. But it is hard to say no to that project and with the reason being "maybe in 15 years we will expand the convention center here". 

4 hours ago, Lazarus said:

 

much closer to the center of downtown.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

which begs the question, "should there be only one 'center' in downtown?" 

 

Portman Holdings pressed on inclusion goals for Cincinnati convention center hotel

 

The initial plan for a new headquarters hotel downtown seems solid, but Cincinnati City Council members said they want game-changing levels of minority participation in the $470 million project.

 

"This project has to have a significant and unprecedented financial impact on Black businesses and the Black community,” Councilman Reggie Harris told representatives of Atlanta-based developer Portman Holdings and Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. (3CDC), which is coordinating the development of the convention center district.

 

“It can’t (just) be a priority.”

 

Councilman Scotty Johnson and Vice Mayor Jan-Michele Lemon Kearney made similar points at a May 3 hearing on the project.

 

"I just want to say we are totally aligned with you. Absolutely,” responded Portman CEO Ambrish Baisiwala. “The 20-25% range that we have committed to in our proposal – we feel very confident in achieving that. We are happy to push beyond that. We’re very committed to this objective. It was made very clear upfront that this was a big priority for the city and the county.”

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/05/05/portman-inclusion-goals-convention-center-hotel.html

 

On 5/3/2023 at 7:33 PM, ColDayMan said:

How Cincinnati, Hamilton County will avoid paying for new convention hotel's deficit

 

Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. CEO Steve Leeper and Hamilton County Administrator Jeff Aluotto said the magic words for Hamilton County commissioners.

 

Neither the county’s general fund nor its full faith and credit will be on the hook for a $170 million funding gap for the new headquarters hotel that could begin construction early next year. The same is expected to be true of the city.

 

The overall project is going to cost at least $470 million, according to the May 2 estimate, which is down slightly from $500 million, a number floated in November 2022. Atlanta-based developer Portman Holdings is expected to contribute $100 million in equity, secure a senior construction loan of $180 million and contribute some of the hotel’s revenue to the project.

 

The city and county will have to figure out where the rest, about 37% of the project's cost, will come from.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/05/03/cincinnati-hamilton-county-avoid-hotel-deficit.html

 

 

 

So what's the plan for Convention Place along Elm Street?

 

What will replace it?

On 5/5/2023 at 4:41 PM, Miami-Erie said:

 

 

So what's the plan for Convention Place along Elm Street?

 

What will replace it?

 

Parking lot or better yet another grassy lot with a fence around it and a mural... Convention Place is still all tied up in the courts for time being. 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2023/07/20/what-is-happening-to-cincinnatis-duke-energy-convention-center/70433685007/

 

Quote

Downtown Cincinnati's Duke Energy Convention Center is getting a face-lift soon. But to do so, it will have to shut completely for 18 months starting in late June or early July 2024. City and county officials, along with officials from Cincinnati Center City Development Corp., or 3CDC, confirmed to The Enquirer on Thursday that a full shutdown is required to get the construction done as quickly as possible. 3CDC said the $200 million renovation and expansion of Cincinnati's longtime convention center will be completed in time for convention events booked for January 2026.

 

Quote

The project team plans to raise Elm Street to make the main entrance to the convention center more level with the street, increasing accessibility. They also may add a rooftop outdoor space.

 

Are we getting an Underground Atlanta?

1 minute ago, Lazarus said:

 

Are we getting an Underground Atlanta?

If so, I really hope there's an As Seen On TV store.

Just now, zsnyder said:

If so, I really hope there's an As Seen On TV store.

 

Cobble stones and an old horse cart selling summer sausages. 

Considering the slowness of the new bridge project we may be able be able to finish these upgrades before any new land comes available west of the cc.  This big upgrade is long needed so when it's complete hopefully we can expand the size of the cc west in the next 10 years after a lot of that spaghetti mess gets cleaned up with the new bridge.  

"toned down" aka we have value engineered the hell out of this, we are going to paint the existing 80's granite facade so it remains boxy and call it refreshed 😉

I would say by next week the skywalk will come down as well. Glad to see Convention place coming down...

any updates on the hotel

6 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

any updates on the hotel

Not really the next updates will be Design/Hotel Brand made final, Financing votes Then Groundbreaking which looks on track for about Q2 2024. It looks as tho the convention center renovation will be finalized first. 

I’m told final Convention Center plans and designs are coming any day now!

Seems like the timing of the convention center work will not align optimally with the start of work for the reconstruction of  I-75.    Just as the Convention Center renovations are wrapping up the  restrictions to interstate access and work west of Central Ave will just be getting underway for the next several years. 

13 hours ago, 646empire said:

I’m told final Convention Center plans and designs are coming any day now!

Do we suspect the renderings are any different than what we have been shown? Assuming they can change depending on what hotel brand they get. 

8 hours ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

Do we suspect the renderings are any different than what we have been shown? Assuming they can change depending on what hotel brand they get. 

I believe 3CDC has confirmed that the wing and the undulating hills roofline effect have been VE'd.

9 hours ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

Do we suspect the renderings are any different than what we have been shown? Assuming they can change depending on what hotel brand they get. 

I asked about that actually and I’m told they changed quite a bit. A modern “simplistic” design is the wording used. But overall well done and thorough for the price tag.

Edited September 7, 20231 yr by 646empire

29 minutes ago, 646empire said:

I asked about that actually and I’m told they changed quite a bit. A modern “simplistic” design is the wording used. But overall well done and thorough for the price tag.

Any changes in height? 

1 hour ago, 646empire said:

I asked about that actually and I’m told they changed quite a bit. A modern “simplistic” design is the wording used. But overall well done and thorough for the price tag.

You said "convention center" plans in your original post, reply said "hotel." which are we talking about?

edit: never mind, I can see that you're talking about the center in the later replies.

 

Edited September 7, 20231 yr by zsnyder

20 minutes ago, zsnyder said:

You said "convention center" plans in your original post, reply said "hotel." which are we talking about?

edit: never mind, I can see that you're talking about the center in the later replies.

 

Good catch! I’m speaking about The Convention Center not the *Hotel. I haven’t heard much on the hotel design, I would assume the 2 structures will aim to be cohesive in design and not totally clashing.

7 hours ago, dnymck said:

I believe 3CDC has confirmed that the wing and the undulating hills roofline effect have been VE'd.

To be honest these are the only two features i can recall from the proposal. I guess whats left is whatever material is trendy at the moment combined with a 'wellness center' look?

Project kickoff for the convention center on September 27th.

Meanwhile....

 

"Talks to expand @DukeEnergyCntr downtown and build a new convention hotel are going in a "bad-bad direction" according to Hamilton County Commission President Alicia Reese. She says the behavior of the developers in meetings has been inappropriate threatening the entire project."

 

https://twitter.com/700wlw/status/1702652288312205794?t=HZ779uP5ZfTOkr8IAPdnQw&s=19

I wonder what they mean by that.

45 minutes ago, stashua123 said:

Meanwhile....

 

"Talks to expand @DukeEnergyCntr downtown and build a new convention hotel are going in a "bad-bad direction" according to Hamilton County Commission President Alicia Reese. She says the behavior of the developers in meetings has been inappropriate threatening the entire project."

 

https://twitter.com/700wlw/status/1702652288312205794?t=HZ779uP5ZfTOkr8IAPdnQw&s=19

More none sense from Alicia.

Here me out...Build a new convention center in Queensgate and use the space downtown for more residential.

1 hour ago, stashua123 said:

Meanwhile....

 

"Talks to expand @DukeEnergyCntr downtown and build a new convention hotel are going in a "bad-bad direction" according to Hamilton County Commission President Alicia Reese. She says the behavior of the developers in meetings has been inappropriate threatening the entire project."

 

https://twitter.com/700wlw/status/1702652288312205794?t=HZ779uP5ZfTOkr8IAPdnQw&s=19

 

I wonder if this is why we've been seeing a full court PR blitz about 3CDC's reason for existing and its view of the city as a client. Letters to the editor from Leeper and the head of the Chamber among others. Seems like something against the interest of development of the convention center district is afoot. It is unfortunate Alicia Reece is airing this dirty laundry in a public forum. That may have been a strategic choice on her part.

1 hour ago, 646empire said:

More none sense from Alicia.

Sounds like she is trying to take on 3CDC and using this project to go after them.

4 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Sounds like she is trying to take on 3CDC and using this project to go after them.

Attention getter is all she is. Let's get this project going. The other regional metros are eating our lunch. Stop the politics, for once.

50 minutes ago, jvarney1 said:

Attention getter is all she is. Let's get this project going. The other regional metros are eating our lunch. Stop the politics, for once.

Fortunately the other 2 commissioners are on board so she can’t really slow things down too much

@jaketheace41 said,

 

Here me out...Build a new convention center in Queensgate and use the space downtown for more residential.

 

I think its a great idea. If the Convention Center and the proposed FCC, Lindner, Arena were built on or near Liberty in Queensgate that could start a move for downtown to expand. Major problem is the major hotels won't be in walking distance of the new venues. New street car routes could change all of that. 

 

On 9/15/2023 at 3:41 PM, 646empire said:

Fortunately the other 2 commissioners are on board so she can’t really slow things down too much

Dont count Dumas out, her hand likes to be greased. She let Lincoln Heights fail on her watch. Reese is just looking for her next big windfall pay out right now. Hell she has her name all over the black music hall of fame as if she footed the bill for the project. I dont trust her I know Mallory didnt care for her but played along to not ruffle feathers. 

1 hour ago, savadams13 said:

Dont count Dumas out, her hand likes to be greased. She let Lincoln Heights fail on her watch. Reese is just looking for her next big windfall pay out right now. Hell she has her name all over the black music hall of fame as if she footed the bill for the project. I dont trust her I know Mallory didnt care for her but played along to not ruffle feathers. 

These government officials should be very careful The FBI is definitely watching these development deals. How quickly people forget.

6 hours ago, savadams13 said:

Dont count Dumas out, her hand likes to be greased. She let Lincoln Heights fail on her watch. Reese is just looking for her next big windfall pay out right now. Hell she has her name all over the black music hall of fame as if she footed the bill for the project. I dont trust her I know Mallory didnt care for her but played along to not ruffle feathers. 

 

The Hall of Fame has constantly-on outdoor TV's with politician interviews. It's like a 24/7 advertisement for the Democrats on the county commission.  No music is played, just...politicians. 

 

What on earth lol. Also I can’t tell if she’s talking about a Portman Rep or 3CDC??

 

"An African American had behaved in such a way they probably would have been escorted out of here, almost like Pacman Jones was escorted off the airplane in handcuffs,” she said Thursday at the county commission meeting.“

 

https://local12.com/amp/news/local/hamilton-county-commission-president-feels-disrespected-by-3cdc-developers-after-meeting-convention-center-renovations-hotel-cincy-millenium-alicia-reece-development-cincinnati-ohio

Edited September 18, 20231 yr by 646empire

Very disappointing behavior from Alicia Reese. While 3CDC leadership has been known for being pushy in the past, they get things done that the city and county can't. 

 

From the article: 

• She (Reece) only said things got very heated after she asked pointed questions about the project in that meeting, including how much more square footage the renovation would create at the convention center, and whether the hotel would include 800 rooms to replace the rooms lost to the demolition of downtown’s Millenium Hotel.

Those are not pointed questions. If anything, they are project fundamentals that were established long ago. 

 

Something smells fishy and it feels like Reece is not operating from a position of good faith. And most importantly, no one has time for a "cooling off period" that she's calling for.

1 hour ago, 646empire said:

What on earth lol. Also I can’t tell if she’s talking about a Portman Rep or 3CDC??

 

"An African American had behaved in such a way they probably would have been escorted out of here, almost like Pacman Jones was escorted off the airplane in handcuffs,” she said Thursday at the county commission meeting.“

 

https://local12.com/amp/news/local/hamilton-county-commission-president-feels-disrespected-by-3cdc-developers-after-meeting-convention-center-renovations-hotel-cincy-millenium-alicia-reece-development-cincinnati-ohio

I think it is Leeper. There has been contentious issues with 3CDC and the county recently so I think it is a clash of personalities between those 2 individuals. You would have to figure that a rep from a company like Portman who does not have longstanding relationships in town is going to be a bit more deferential, since there are an outsider, whereas 3CDC has longstanding relationships with the COunty, and they have quasi government backing to get their job done, so they stand almost as an equal or independent body, so they have more liberties to challenge the commissioners than a Portman would have. 

9 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

I think it is Leeper. There has been contentious issues with 3CDC and the county recently so I think it is a clash of personalities between those 2 individuals. You would have to figure that a rep from a company like Portman who does not have longstanding relationships in town is going to be a bit more deferential, since there are an outsider, whereas 3CDC has longstanding relationships with the COunty, and they have quasi government backing to get their job done, so they stand almost as an equal or independent body, so they have more liberties to challenge the commissioners than a Portman would have. 

 

Leeper isn't Black tho, she describes the person as African American, but I get your point