34 minutes ago, IAGuy39 said:

Basically for me, upgrade that whole area which is what they are trying to do and they will better be able to activate the convention center with the needed upgrades. It's not like Cincy is going to start beating out LV or Orlando for huge conventions anyways, be the best in your wheelhouse and I feel good about what we are doing here for the next 10+ years.

I agree. Personally, I think they need to focus on the area South of 5th where the hotel will be and then east East of the convention center. Activate the area to the South first. by the time that takes off, they may be ready for the next upgrade and then they can focus on the area North of 6th. 

8 hours ago, 646empire said:

Exactly this renovation is very much tech based along with paint, lighting, carpet and such. The center will feel newish when completed. The Facade update is important too, having a convention client getting out of their Uber or walking towards a building that looks dated on the outside is not ok,  similar to why the packaging of your favorite snack in a grocery store is important humans buy with their eyes first. 3CDC is going to hit a lot with a relatively small budget. 

Ikea, Target, Walmart and Home Depot prove you wrong. Basically, no one will drive up in an uber and walk towards the building. Most out of towners will be in a Hotel along 5th Street. If they walk along fifth street and see the Albee Park, they will look at the park and not the front door.   No one will walk to Central to see what's there for at least ten years. No one will go north to see the parking garages. So save the money, add a new front door and put the bling, lightshow and fireworks in the park. When i go to a grocery store I shop the perimeter like a healthy person. The aisles are full of fat people munching on their favorite snack riding battery powered shopping carts>  I think the convention center in this town will never compete with LV or Orlando. People want to go to conventions in those places because of those places not because of a convention center. People are attracted to the city because of its attractions That would include old buildings, new buildings, bars and restaurants and even museum or two. 

10 hours ago, RJohnson said:

Ikea, Target, Walmart and Home Depot prove you wrong. Basically, no one will drive up in an uber and walk towards the building. Most out of towners will be in a Hotel along 5th Street. If they walk along fifth street and see the Albee Park, they will look at the park and not the front door.   No one will walk to Central to see what's there for at least ten years. No one will go north to see the parking garages. So save the money, add a new front door and put the bling, lightshow and fireworks in the park. When i go to a grocery store I shop the perimeter like a healthy person. The aisles are full of fat people munching on their favorite snack riding battery powered shopping carts>  I think the convention center in this town will never compete with LV or Orlando. People want to go to conventions in those places because of those places not because of a convention center. People are attracted to the city because of its attractions That would include old buildings, new buildings, bars and restaurants and even museum or two. 

What???? I’m assuming you’re kidding. There is so much wrong and false with this I can’t even begin LOL.

4 minutes ago, 646empire said:

What???? I’m assuming you’re kidding. There is so much wrong and false with this I can’t even begin LOL.

lol

11 hours ago, RJohnson said:

Ikea, Target, Walmart and Home Depot prove you wrong. Basically, no one will drive up in an uber and walk towards the building. Most out of towners will be in a Hotel along 5th Street. If they walk along fifth street and see the Albee Park, they will look at the park and not the front door.   No one will walk to Central to see what's there for at least ten years. No one will go north to see the parking garages. So save the money, add a new front door and put the bling, lightshow and fireworks in the park. When i go to a grocery store I shop the perimeter like a healthy person. The aisles are full of fat people munching on their favorite snack riding battery powered shopping carts>  I think the convention center in this town will never compete with LV or Orlando. People want to go to conventions in those places because of those places not because of a convention center. People are attracted to the city because of its attractions That would include old buildings, new buildings, bars and restaurants and even museum or two. 

So if I understand you correctly, you put the bling on the inside by renovating the inside, you renovate the outside on the front facing side only so that it has curb appeal on 5th and Elm, but the rear of the building along 6th where the loading docks are located does not need to be touched?

2 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

So if I understand you correctly, you put the bling on the inside by renovating the inside, you renovate the outside on the front facing side only so that it has curb appeal on 5th and Elm, but the rear of the building along 6th where the loading docks are located does not need to be touched?

 i think you miss read what if said. I said nothing about the inside of the building. Im curious how you came up with that. what i said was, " No one will go north to see the parking garages. So save the money, add a new front door and put the bling, lightshow and fireworks in the park." i was never a good at speed reading myself. My comment basically said in so many words. it is a waste of money to spend $200 mil. and get no added space. The entrance should be left the same. the facade should be left the same. That the convention center is in many ways promoting the city. It is and cannot expect people who need 500,000 square feet of space to rent a 400,000 ft space. You have eliminated anyone who needs over the available space. But, if the cc has 400,000 ft available space then that is you market. I contend that the building doesn't look old and even if it did you cannot rent the space to someone who needs 500,000 ft. If the loading docks work as they are then leave them alone. And, what i said about the west side or rear of the building was intended to mean. that is where the city ends. why would anyone explore that end of town if there is only an interstate highway. What we have here is a physics problem I believe. Or maybe a chess problem. the queen is on the board surrounded by a variety of other pieces that for some reason, be it streets, historic buildings, or interstate highways the queen is in check. Your only choice is to stop the flow of traffic, demolish the historic buildings or make it a 3D chess game. That is to say, put the main addition on another level i.e., second story. and if you can't or won't do that kick the board.  

 

23 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

I agree. Personally, I think they need to focus on the area South of 5th where the hotel will be and then east East of the convention center. Activate the area to the South first. by the time that takes off, they may be ready for the next upgrade and then they can focus on the area North of 6th. 

Seems like a good approach. 3CDC does things very thoroughly, if they can thoroughly upgrade south of 5th street then move onto the next, but patchwork isn't the best. That said, easier said than done!!!

Just randomly scrolled thru the current photos on the 3CDC site and yikes. The building 100% needs a refresh. The paint, the carpet, signage and yes the exterior the building looks a mess. The idea of connecting a brand new hotel to this outdated structure is laughable.

 

https://www.3cdc.org/project/duke-energy-convention-center/

Edited October 3, 20231 yr by 646empire

im laughing right along with you. Those photos of a grey wet winter's day in Cincinnati along with the used abused old Albee Facade make me sad too. Plus, the illustrations of the new hotel look grand. It's like someone passed out "EnChroma" glasses. Down in my holler we call that buying a pig in a poke. I think every home owner who opts for carpet regrets it sooner than later. Personally, I like marble flooring especially for a high traffic area. With glassy marble you get depth from the reflections. Hope we get shiny marble flooring in this new facelift. 

11 hours ago, 646empire said:

Just randomly scrolled thru the current photos on the 3CDC site and yikes. The building 100% needs a refresh. The paint, the carpet, signage and yes the exterior the building looks a mess. The idea of connecting a brand new hotel to this outdated structure is laughable.

 

https://www.3cdc.org/project/duke-energy-convention-center/

I heard when they design the new exterior they are going to use a lot of decorative glass block and neon accent lighting 

20 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

I heard when they design the new exterior they are going to use a lot of decorative glass block and neon accent lighting 

I’ve heard a bit about the lighting, that will look good in that area. I’m trying to get info on the Cincinnati sign, it’s clearly coming down but is that a mural or a video board they are putting up? No response yet.

4 minutes ago, 646empire said:

I’ve heard a bit about the lighting, that will look good in that area. I’m trying to get info on the Cincinnati sign, it’s clearly coming down but is that a mural or a video board they are putting up? No response yet.

I was kidding. I have no idea what it will look like, but considering it is already an outdated facade from the late 80s I was just trying to think of design concepts that were popular in the 80s for the redesign.  

4 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

I was kidding. I have no idea what it will look like, but considering it is already an outdated facade from the late 80s I was just trying to think of design concepts that were popular in the 80s for the redesign.  

Ohhh lol, I actually have heard that they will be using some programmable enhanced lighting. Didn’t hear about the glass blocks tho hahahahah.

Increase passed, project is a go!

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2023/10/05/will-hamilton-county-raise-the-hotel-tax-to-pay-for-the-convention-center/71068111007/

we represent the lollypop guild, the lollypop guild,

and if you give us your tax dollars, we promise to build 

a 23 story wall, another tax increase,

and a look behind the curtain to see that Emerald City

is still in Las Vegas. 

 

 

I'm working close to this project and just want to clear up some of the questions about where all the money is going... Yes there is a major facade upgrade to "unify" the four sides, with the most invasive exterior work being along 5th and Elm. Central Pkwy gets very little attention and 6th St gets a facelift. The convos that I've seen so far are missing two major items: building repairs and interior daylight.
 

Building Repairs... The CC has been horribly neglected for over forty years. The 2006 renovation did not address many of the repairs or underlying systemic concerns, so most of the building runs on MEP from the 80s. Things like switchboards, AHUs, plumbing lines, etc. need wholesale replacement. Not to mention the entire TPO roof area (90% of the building) is falling apart and needs to be replaced. There's also water infiltration throughout spots in the facade, both at the 80s addition and at the 2006 addition.  These much-needed repairs and upgrades do absolutely nothing to make the building look better, yet they make up over half the budget.

 

Interior Daylight... Along both main concourses of the building at 5th and Elm, the idiots who designed the 80s reno decided to place all the core space along the edges of the building, effectively blocking all the light and crowding the floor area with egress stairs towers, bathrooms, mechanical rooms, and other crap that don't even need windows. The cramped/dark concourses are in desperate need of daylight and more space, especially because they're supposed to be a much-needed break from the exhibition/ballroom spaces. Not to mention how people tend to get lost inside buildings with no windows... This is the main reason that most of the facade attention is along 5th and Elm, since that's where those dank, dismal concourses are located.

The demo has reached beyond the edge of the parking garage. It's really hard to tell where the 'end' is located but it looks like they have added a temporary stair so I wonder if that means part of the egress from the garage used to be inside this building? Either way after a long pause they are now making quick progress on the remaining portion not that Elm is closed down. 

 

On 10/5/2023 at 8:54 PM, Largue said:

I'm working close to this project and just want to clear up some of the questions about where all the money is going... Yes there is a major facade upgrade to "unify" the four sides, with the most invasive exterior work being along 5th and Elm. Central Pkwy gets very little attention and 6th St gets a facelift. The convos that I've seen so far are missing two major items: building repairs and interior daylight.
 

Building Repairs... The CC has been horribly neglected for over forty years. The 2006 renovation did not address many of the repairs or underlying systemic concerns, so most of the building runs on MEP from the 80s. Things like switchboards, AHUs, plumbing lines, etc. need wholesale replacement. Not to mention the entire TPO roof area (90% of the building) is falling apart and needs to be replaced. There's also water infiltration throughout spots in the facade, both at the 80s addition and at the 2006 addition.  These much-needed repairs and upgrades do absolutely nothing to make the building look better, yet they make up over half the budget.

 

Interior Daylight... Along both main concourses of the building at 5th and Elm, the idiots who designed the 80s reno decided to place all the core space along the edges of the building, effectively blocking all the light and crowding the floor area with egress stairs towers, bathrooms, mechanical rooms, and other crap that don't even need windows. The cramped/dark concourses are in desperate need of daylight and more space, especially because they're supposed to be a much-needed break from the exhibition/ballroom spaces. Not to mention how people tend to get lost inside buildings with no windows... This is the main reason that most of the facade attention is along 5th and Elm, since that's where those dank, dismal concourses are located.

Thanks for your anaylsis of what needs to be done at CC. Center Keynote Speaker Hakeem Jeffries Rep. Jeffries represents the diverse Eighth Congressional District of New York and is serving his sixth term in the United States Congress will speak at the national NCAAP annual meeting Oct. 27th. Are there actual leaks in the building? Are there clogged toilets? People still use switchboards? Anyway, the NCAAP rented the place. 

I don't think calling the architects "idiots" was exactly nice. I am sure they needed to go infront of a board of highly respected people of knowledge about such things that approved their plan or they wouldn't have gotten the redo job. Anyway, I'm not so sure there needs to be daylight when electric lighting could do the job. Especially since this is an upgrade that is going to be replaced in 10years. it's like, i wanted a caddy but got a chevy and wasn't late to work for 10 years. My limited knowledge of TPO roofing is that it lasts for 10 to 20 years. And, if the roofer says replace it, the committee should have a qualified person or persons discuss and decide if it can be repaired first. I think it was Michael Graves that designed the facade of the building and he was quite hot back in the day. All that brick work and no one complained. Now it is dark and dank, but in the last 10 years interior lighting has changed dramatically.

If I were designing an addition to the existing building, I would plan ahead. The new building would attach to the existing building using the same methods planned for this redo. A frugal person would look ahead and make those plans now. If the future decides on extending the cc across liberty we should decide no. will it be attached via overhead walks or underground passages or block liberty? Or, if they decided to put it in Queensgate now is the time to start the plan to make the queensgate location ammeaniable. That means plan CC district now. So that means, appeasing the downtown hotels now. transportation being the greatest concern. But, I hear that people don't stay in hotels they uber now. So, I could be wrong. 

Just to add to my rant. It seems that no one wants to raze old buildings because of their character, etc. But, don't mind replacing new buildings because the are too 80s. it want be 2024 forever you know. Then we can look back on what was important in the 1880s and 1980s 

 

Edited October 7, 20231 yr by RJohnson

@RJohnsonYes there are active leaks in the building whenever it rains and signs of water damage throughout.  There was an analysis done indicating the majority of the TPO roof needs replacement and cannot be repaired.  The roof warranty expires in 2026 anyways.  In addition, the existing insulation under the TPO has been compromised by water infiltration (but it's not like the old insulation would be up to energy code anyways). 

 

The 1984 expansion was done by the firm Harry Hake & Harry Hake Jr. & Associates (the firm now known as Champlin Architecture).  I've never met them to know if they are personally idiots, but I'm comfortable calling their building design idiotic.  If you think natural light is unnecessary in buildings (especially large civic buildings) then you're welcome to think that.  Most people and studies would wholeheartedly disagree with you.

In regards to the potential expansion...  This is why the west facade is getting minimal work.  If you have not seen yet, look up the Bridge Forward proposal about the I-75 Brent Spence work that is being planned.  

^The original design was bad and was made worse by the expansion, when the loading docks were moved west, meaning the old loading/staging area became useless convention space with a low ceiling hidden behind diagonal pillars.  They should have started over in the 1980s with a new convention hall at the second level and parking underground and/or at the ground level. 

 

The 2006 expansion tripled down on the bad design of the original 1960s building.  Now we're going to quadruple down on it. 

 

If the railroad sale goes through, watch for the convention center plans to suddenly go grandiose. 

You can put the "boneyard" in that spot but other than that "tabs" like that are less popular than regular open space.

just for fun. I can see an influence of Michael Graves work on the CC thought I'd show photos of how Graves made connections with the Albee Facade  with a post modern look. His use of columns, window spacing, arches and brick work seem highly influenced by the albee. And i appreciate @Largue 's response to my query. there were other photos but these were the ones i could open.

Edited October 9, 20231 yr by RJohnson

^ Did Michael Graves design the old facade at the convention center in the 1980s? 

On 10/6/2023 at 2:46 PM, ucgrady said:

The demo has reached beyond the edge of the parking garage. It's really hard to tell where the 'end' is located but it looks like they have added a temporary stair so I wonder if that means part of the egress from the garage used to be inside this building?

 

Yes, the rear stair of the garage extended out into the footprint of the Convention Place building. Structurally, it must have been part of the building and had to come down with it. It previously opened up to a lobby on the second floor of the building, which connected to the Skywalk. I used to use it to go from this garage all the way over to the Mercantile Center as recently as 2018-ish.  There was a seemingly still functioning karate studio in an otherwise remote corner of the last remaining bits of the Skywalk. 

10 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

^ Did Michael Graves design the old facade at the convention center in the 1980s? 

I don't think he did given the information I could find. But, he did sketches of his many projects. They are simple sketches that look like Michael Graves sketches. I do remember a Graves sketch that was done of the CC. There is a video of his sketchbook called something like The Sketches or Sketchbook of Michael Graves. And there are architectural design books that talk about his style. His window placement, columns, placement and design of elements. I also remember Roy Orbison's in Dreams.. and I could be wrong about that too. 

On 10/8/2023 at 10:57 PM, RJohnson said:

just for fun. I can see an influence of Michael Graves work on the CC thought I'd show photos of how Graves made connections with the Albee Facade  with a post modern look. His use of columns, window spacing, arches and brick work seem highly influenced by the albee. And i appreciate @Largue 's response to my query. there were other photos but these were the ones i could open.

 

 

 

 

 

On 10/8/2023 at 10:57 PM, RJohnson said:

Michael Graves 

 

 

 

 

The Albee facade is very late in a long long line of triumphal arches. There's nothing inherently special about it aside from the whim of someone to save it. It wasn't even treated with any honor at the convention center. It holds court on a one way street... that moves away from it.

I think the arch at the engineering building is more a nod to Ledoux's never built River Inspector's (an engineer) house. 

On 10/8/2023 at 3:02 PM, Largue said:

@RJohnsonYes there are active leaks in the building whenever it rains and signs of water damage throughout.  There was an analysis done indicating the majority of the TPO roof needs replacement and cannot be repaired.  The roof warranty expires in 2026 anyways.  In addition, the existing insulation under the TPO has been compromised by water infiltration (but it's not like the old insulation would be up to energy code anyways). 

 

The 1984 expansion was done by the firm Harry Hake & Harry Hake Jr. & Associates (the firm now known as Champlin Architecture).  I've never met them to know if they are personally idiots, but I'm comfortable calling their building design idiotic.  If you think natural light is unnecessary in buildings (especially large civic buildings) then you're welcome to think that.  Most people and studies would wholeheartedly disagree with you.

In regards to the potential expansion...  This is why the west facade is getting minimal work.  If you have not seen yet, look up the Bridge Forward proposal about the I-75 Brent Spence work that is being planned.  

i looked up the Bridge Forward Concept and remember the renderings of "The Banks" project. What was planned and what we got. So far I would say it has been pretty much a disappointment. There is always the future though. The country, or at least the parts I've seen has gone through an incredible building phase in the past 10 years. And yet, not one true highrise has been built in downtown much less the Queensgate area. Bridge Forward is a fantastic dream and I hope it happens. What I hear from Urban Ohio is we can't build bridges across Elm, or block Central or dig a cave walk across 5th. And, what about this and what about that. The only way downtown will ever expand is to do something like Bridge Forward. Problem is who and what is going to occupy all that real estate. Charlotte, Raleigh-Durham, Nashville and Austin have grow like a teenager and their populations have mushroomed along with their skylines. Toyota left, Macy's left, chiquita left, and Western Southern is still working on a hotel. The city is about to renovate the cc for the 3rd time in 30 years. And, for some reason trying to stop FC Cincy (or whoever) from tearing down 7 old buildings with the promise of building the first step toward Bridge Forward.

 

I looked up videos on TPO roofing techiques and wonder why anyone built a flat room in the first place. If my last name was Wallace, I think I would write a book called "This is Water".  

If there were to be a new indoor arena developed on the development site between Third and Fifth west of Central created by the Brent Spence project,   seems like it could be directly linked to the CC and or the new hotel.   Assume the existing structures west of Plum will not go away between Fourth and Fifth.     If an arena could be combined with the CC there may be opportunity or some additional meeting space in the new structure in addition to the main arena space similar to Cintas.    

It's a shame the convention hotel is taking as long as it is to break ground and build. Especially considering LA is no longer hosting the FIFA world cup Cincinnati was a back up host city would probably have a better chance if the hotel were already under construction...

20 minutes ago, savadams13 said:

It's a shame the convention hotel is taking as long as it is to break ground and build. Especially considering LA is no longer hosting the FIFA world cup Cincinnati was a back up host city would probably have a better chance if the hotel were already under construction...

Yeah I wish it was on a faster pace too. Looks like groundbreaking is next summer shortly after convention center construction begins. On the flip side I’ve seen those reports but I’m not so sure LA is really a no-go which is why no official word has come out yet. Losing LA would be a pretty big blow to FIFA WC 2026. That market and that stadium would make a fortune for FIFA.

Edited October 23, 20231 yr by 646empire

2 minutes ago, 646empire said:

Yeah I wish it was on a faster pace too. Looks like groundbreaking is next summer shortly after convention center construction begins. On the flip side I’ve seen those reports but I’m not so sure LA is really a no-go which is why no official word has come out yet. Losing LA would be a pretty big blow to FIFA WC 2026. That market and that stadium would make a fortune for FIFA.

I would imagine that even if LA would be a no go, they would find another city out west.

24 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

I would imagine that even if LA would be a no go, they would find another city out west.

Exactly, I’ve read Vegas. If something happened with say Kansas City then Cincy would be on code red and would rush a ground breaking before the end of the year.

Edited October 23, 20231 yr by 646empire

Cincinnati's largest developments applying for over $89 million in state tax credits

 

The largest request comes from Portman Holdings for the Cincinnati convention center hotel. Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. (3CDC) is leading the process of developing the hotel, working with Atlanta-based developer Portman.

 

Portman has requested $40 million in TMUD tax credits for the construction of the new convention center hotel, according to its application. The 650-room hotel, complete with a rooftop pool and ballrooms, is projected to cost $415.2 million and represents a “generational opportunity to reenergize the hospitality and event business,” according to the application.

 

The convention hotel requires the TMUD funding to fill the project’s final funding gap and green-light construction, according to 3CDC Vice President of Marketing and Communications Joe Rudemiller. Without them, the project isn’t financially viable.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/11/13/tmud-tax-credits-convention-hotel-carew-tower.html

 

32 minutes ago, ColDayMan said:

Cincinnati's largest developments applying for over $89 million in state tax credits

 

The largest request comes from Portman Holdings for the Cincinnati convention center hotel. Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. (3CDC) is leading the process of developing the hotel, working with Atlanta-based developer Portman.

 

Portman has requested $40 million in TMUD tax credits for the construction of the new convention center hotel, according to its application. The 650-room hotel, complete with a rooftop pool and ballrooms, is projected to cost $415.2 million and represents a “generational opportunity to reenergize the hospitality and event business,” according to the application.

 

The convention hotel requires the TMUD funding to fill the project’s final funding gap and green-light construction, according to 3CDC Vice President of Marketing and Communications Joe Rudemiller. Without them, the project isn’t financially viable.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/11/13/tmud-tax-credits-convention-hotel-carew-tower.html

 

Loving that design, although I know it’s not final. 
 

 

Also yikes fierce competition!:

 

“Carew Tower, FC Cincinnati's West End district and the convention center hotel are all among the applicants for Ohio TMUD tax credits.”

Edited November 13, 20231 yr by 646empire

50 minutes ago, ColDayMan said:

Cincinnati's largest developments applying for over $89 million in state tax credits

 

The largest request comes from Portman Holdings for the Cincinnati convention center hotel. Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. (3CDC) is leading the process of developing the hotel, working with Atlanta-based developer Portman.

 

Portman has requested $40 million in TMUD tax credits for the construction of the new convention center hotel, according to its application. The 650-room hotel, complete with a rooftop pool and ballrooms, is projected to cost $415.2 million and represents a “generational opportunity to reenergize the hospitality and event business,” according to the application.

 

The convention hotel requires the TMUD funding to fill the project’s final funding gap and green-light construction, according to 3CDC Vice President of Marketing and Communications Joe Rudemiller. Without them, the project isn’t financially viable.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/11/13/tmud-tax-credits-convention-hotel-carew-tower.html

 

So we tore down a 32 story hotel for this? Give me $40M, or the project isn't viable.  That's all we ever hear....this old hotel isn't viable. This new hotel isnt viable. WTF???

41 minutes ago, TheCOV said:

So we tore down a 32 story hotel for this? Give me $40M, or the project isn't viable.  That's all we ever hear....this old hotel isn't viable. This new hotel isnt viable. WTF???

 

Convention Center hotels are rarely viable on their own. They almost always need subsidy.

2 hours ago, TheCOV said:

So we tore down a 32 story hotel for this? Give me $40M, or the project isn't viable.  That's all we ever hear....this old hotel isn't viable. This new hotel isnt viable. WTF???

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Heads are gonna roll if this doesn’t get off the ground and soon.

Edited November 14, 20231 yr by 646empire

6 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

 

Convention Center hotels are rarely viable on their own. They almost always need subsidy.

Thats true but this is REALLY bad press and actually plays well for Alicia Reese and others who have been skeptical of 3CDC on this particular project. To come out and say this after the convention center renovation is approved is kinda shady. I’m not a Reese fan but this supports her blow up several weeks back arguing both projects needed to be finalized at the same time rather than separately or doing the hotel financing first. Horrible optics.

2 hours ago, 646empire said:

Loving that design, although I know it’s not final. 
 

 

Also yikes fierce competition!:

 

“Carew Tower, FC Cincinnati's West End district and the convention center hotel are all among the applicants for Ohio TMUD tax credits.”

Do we know when they award the funding? I just guessing, but I’d say the hotel and FC projects both get the funding while Carew Tower and the Gallery project are left out. The later two just aren’t really big enough projects to consider them transformational (though I hope both still happen). 
 

It is messed up about needing this funding or basically the hotel project doesn’t go through and would not fair well for city government or 3CDC.  

16 minutes ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

Do we know when they award the funding? I just guessing, but I’d say the hotel and FC projects both get the funding while Carew Tower and the Gallery project are left out. The later two just aren’t really big enough projects to consider them transformational (though I hope both still happen). 
 

It is messed up about needing this funding or basically the hotel project doesn’t go through and would not fair well for city government or 3CDC.  

Interesting my guess would be Carew Tower is first. The tower is an Icon and a giant re-use the exact thing these kinds of credits should be for, not new construction hotels. But there are politics involved in all of it, so it wouldnt surprise me if the hotel got it just because it’s so time sensitive and the behind the scenes handshakes.

 

I think the next batch of credits are scheduled for December?

Edited November 14, 20231 yr by 646empire

Would have been a much better idea to give the Millennium hotel a major renovation into a "business" hotel brand and build a smaller new high-end hotel on the lot south of the Convention Center. Every part of this project has been rushed before a solid plan could be put in place and it has resulted in many bad decisions being made.

Isn't the hotel supposed to have 800 rooms? Today's article says 650... So they downsized by nearly 20% and still ended up $40M short?

11 minutes ago, 646empire said:

Interesting my guess would be Carew Tower is first. The tower is an Icon and a giant re-use the exact thing these kinds of credits should be for, not new construction hotels. But there are politics involved in all of it, so it wouldnt surprise me if the hotel got it just because it’s so time sensitive and the behind the scenes handshakes.

 

I think the next batch of credits are scheduled for December?

I mean I’d love for all these to get funding. Carew is only asking for 4.5million so they very well could get it (don’t think the fund has a set amount to allocate does it?). I’m just thinking the Hotel and FC because they will both be transformational to the areas they are proposed for and help jump start redevelopment in those areas plus bring in a decent amount of money. 
 

I would love to see the Banks try to get some of this money so we can finally get this s**t completed. 

12 minutes ago, NW24HX said:

Isn't the hotel supposed to have 800 rooms? Today's article says 650... So they downsized by nearly 20% and still ended up $40M short?

I don’t think they ever stated that it WAS going to be 800 rooms but that Cincinnati could support 800 rooms

Upon looking at old articles they do state 800 rooms. 

Edited November 14, 20231 yr by Ucgrad2015
Updated

10 minutes ago, taestell said:

Would have been a much better idea to give the Millennium hotel a major renovation into a "business" hotel brand and build a smaller new high-end hotel on the lot south of the Convention Center. Every part of this project has been rushed before a solid plan could be put in place and it has resulted in many bad decisions being made.

And when asked they always stated that it was much more cost efficient and would take less time to do a new hotel than to renovate the Millenium. Sucks to know that if we just renovated the Millenium we’d prolly be close to completion of it. 

3 minutes ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

And when asked they always stated that it was much more cost efficient and would take less time to do a new hotel than to renovate the Millenium. Sucks to know that if we just renovated the Millenium we’d prolly be close to completion of it. 

Yeah this is not a good look at all. I’m a big supporter of the project but even I’m starting to turn sour. I reached out to a buddy to get more info on what’s happening.

I think you guys are overreacting a bit.  Of course they're going to ask for as much money as possible.  Anything they can get is less that the county has to pay for.  Developers always say the project won't be able to happen without these funds/tax credits to help their chances of getting the most amount of money.  The project is going to move forward no matter how much they get from this fund.  

25 minutes ago, Cincy513 said:

I think you guys are overreacting a bit.  Of course they're going to ask for as much money as possible.  Anything they can get is less that the county has to pay for.  Developers always say the project won't be able to happen without these funds/tax credits to help their chances of getting the most amount of money.  The project is going to move forward no matter how much they get from this fund.  

I can assure you Cincinnati is getting a hotel built one way or another. I don’t think anyone here thinks it’s going to get cancelled. My point was it’s a terrible look for 3CDC to come out at this point and say the project isn’t viable without a 40 million dollar state tax award.

33 minutes ago, 646empire said:

I can assure you Cincinnati is getting a hotel built one way or another. I don’t think anyone here thinks it’s going to get cancelled. My point was it’s a terrible look for 3CDC to come out at this point and say the project isn’t viable without a 40 million dollar state tax award.

It's a tactic to get as much money as possible from the state.  No one will even remember that quote once construction starts.